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Optical Brigteners (OBs)

Pat Z5or6 SEMich
4 years ago

Do you know anyone who is, or thinks he/she is, allergic, or sensitive, to optical brighteners in laundry detergents?

Comments (55)

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    German persil color powder don’t have OB. Amazon has it for about 24 a box. I prefer the non mega pearls version as no matter what temp I use including sanitize the mega pearls don’t dissolve.

  • dadoes
    4 years ago

    Excess suds with Cheer power? Using 6 to 8 tablespoons plus 2 tbsp STPP, I get only a slight amount of foam in a low-water HE toploader.

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  • Laundry Mich
    4 years ago

    Anyone could be allergic to anything, like Larisa said... however, I did actually read a very long write up by Dermatologists for Sun Products (now Henkel).


    Here in America, we believe that Artificial Coloring Dyes & Fragrance are the root causes of Skin Irritation from Laundry Detergent. What is interesting, is our fellows across the pond in England & Scotland believe that irritation is caused by Enzymes, and enzymes alone -- and they include even stronger fragrance than our normal detergents in this "skin safe" Non-BIO detergent.


    In my opinion, I feel like Laundry Irritation is generally caused by other sources or factors at play in a lot of cases, but, I know that some people do have major reactions -- when the stuff is not completely rinsed out.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Laundry Mich
  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Pat - the cheer powder does not suds up any more than any other detergent when dosed properly. I wonder if you might be overdosing?


    Laundry Mich - I win the lottery. LOL Enzymes in free and clear formulas are a problem, same with perfumes. Charlies Soap is the only detergent that does not bother the skin on my torso.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Cavimum
  • Laundry Mich
    4 years ago

    Cavimum, have you tried or had any luck with All Free & Clear? I don't personally love the cleaning, but I know it does a very good job and leaves no smells or anything behind.

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    Be careful with all free and clear. They have reformulated and a lot of the formulas that previously didn’t have enzymes in it now do. Not sure if that’s what your trying to avoid but just an FYI.

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Laundry Mich - I used All Free & Clear for years (decades?) with no problem; Since the re-formulation that Larisa mentions (above) and subsequent addition of enzymes and whoknowswhatelse, it has caused me problems. It always had OBs added, so they are not my issue....at least for now. It HAS to be the enzymes.

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    Might be a specific enzyme your allergic too. Sounds weird but my daughter has that issue. If I can find a detergent without amalese then she can use that with no issues. Problem is most of them have that in them if they do have enzymes. Her dermatologist said that allergy to that specific enzyme is more common than you think.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Larisa Batchelor
  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Larisa, wow, thank you for that enzyme information. Did her dermatologist run a panel of tests of chemicals in cleaning/bathing products?

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    Yes we did all sorts of testing. Also whenever we use detergent without amalese she has no reaction. Can even use it if it has fragrance in it which we never thought was possible.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Larisa Batchelor
  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    dadoes and Cavimum, re Cheer Powder, I use 1/2 cup in an old top-load Whirlpool "waterhog," which I love. Like SEA SEA, I use 1/2 cup Borax with it. Is that too much? Medium hard water. Rinsing means lots of rinsing.

  • dadoes
    4 years ago

    1/2 cup is 8 tbsp so that's reasonable and within the stated dosage instructions ... depending on the load size/water level. Maybe the borax is reacting with it and increasing the sudsing? It does have some function as a water softener. My water is medium+ hardness (for TX, LOL -- 11 grains per a softener salesman years ago which is considered high by normal standards) but I add STPP as mentioned above and get very little to zero sudsing, and standard rinsing is clear.

    Pat, as you're probably aware, detergent dosage can be judged by the "slipperiness" of the water. Cut back on your dosage until the water doesn't feel slippery between the fingers, then increase until it does (and maybe a little more depending on soil and stain levels). Your choice how to dose the borax with it. Can also add a little borax to the rinse instead of to the wash.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked dadoes
  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I use the same amounts of powder detergent and Borax as you Pat, in my SQ top loader. I have soft water for reference, which makes rinsing difficult. I am not as sensitive as you though. One of our daughters is very sensitive and just had a serious bout with extreme hives and skin eruptions everywhere but her face. Trip to urgent care, shots, meds, etc, but don't know the cause... she has switched over ALL free and clear from Costco exclusively (the one I use for most of my own stuff), which Greeny says is the as same as the Odor Relief in regular stores. Daughter was using Mexican Ariel as she feels it's the only detergent that gets her clothes truly fresh and clean. She's not having any issues with Costco ALL liquid at this time, but I realize she is still under the influence of steroids injections, so can't say the lack irritation is from the detergent or the shots.

    Anyhow, you have to keep trying the different formulas to see which one is best for you. Sounds like you may be on the right track with the Tide Pur Clean and Seventh Generation. When I wash my cat's blankets, I only use a non-optical brighter detergent for her (usually liquid Ecover unscented) because while OBs are generally considered safe, I'm not all that convinced. Cats groom themselves and she lays on her blankets, which would cause her to ingest OBs if I didn't use an OB-free detergent. Ecover is sudsy btw and I am only using the for benefit of the cat these days. My drain pipe can't handle those kinds of suds without a Brady Bunch moment.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked SEA SEA
  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    PS Pat, Borax is great for our laundry needs, but remember, it's another thing that needs to be rinsed out. It can also cause detergents to suds up a little more. Maybe try not adding Borax for a while and see what happens. Also, if you are wanting to use powder Cheer, make certain it's a new box as the older formulation is quite sudsy. The new Cheer formula is not sudsy--or shouldn't be. You might have a bad box. I got a bad box of Cheer within the last year and it faded all my black pants. I still look like I'm wearing old work clothes...

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked SEA SEA
  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    Anytime I use borax I cannot get it to rinse out without having to do 6-8 rinses. I have super super hard water too so it theory it should help soften the water and help but it makes things so hard to rinse out. Also if I can’t get it to rinse out completely makes our clothes stiff. I also notice it fades our darks quicker when I use it. I stick to sttp now as it softeners the water and boost our detergent without the stiffness and completely rinses out. Also don’t fade our clothes.

    Try it without borax I’m going to bet the cheer rinses out and don’t suds as much.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Larisa Batchelor
  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Just a quick comment to SEA SEA tonight about Daughter's bout and then more tomorrow re other issues. The All Free OXI liquid and the new All Free ODOR RELIEF liquid both make me itch, but the old plain and simple All Free liquid does not, even tho' it has OBs and no enzymes. I will bet my last dime that Daughter has a sensitivity to whatever the ODOR RELIEF is. I've been hearing this in the reviews on Amazon or WalMart also. And I so wanted to love the ODOR RELIEF since greeny and SEA SEA love it.

  • beaglenc
    4 years ago

    Pat, I've enjoyed this tread and am happy that you have finally found some relief. I have found that borax works better with liquids than powders. However for some reason I quit using it and upped my tide f/g liquid dosage, added a second rinse. My laundry came out cleaner and fresher smelling. With powders I don't need anything else. With my soft water, usually three tablespoons is enough to get that slippery feel. Always check for it. I fill the fabric softener dispenser with white vinegar for the first rinse and use downyf/g in the last rinse.

    I bet with your not so hard water you could skip the borax all together when using powders, or use half as much. I came across Clorox2 free and clear pods. They are great! And they have an activator, not sure about ob's. Anyway, I lower the powder dose when using them as not to overload the carbonates.

    Good luck with your trials and keep us posted. Hugs

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked beaglenc
  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Pat, a half cup detergent and no borax might be all that is needed In a traditional TL washer. Capacity varies in traditional TLs, too. Im not convinced borax dissolves very well.


    Our water is classified as "moderately hard" (79 mg/L in last online report eleven months ago). After switching to a FL almost nine years ago, I learned after the fact, about all the detergent residue that was in our clothing and towels after using mfr's recommended dosing in our larger capacity water hog TL. I had no clue, like most consumers.


    For years, I only used 1/8 cup borax + Charlies Soap on weekly wash of our sweaty golf shirts and that is because they are made of the wicking fabric that likes to stink no matter what. I usually do a pre-wash with 1 Tbsp of BIZ. With those golf shirts, Charlies Soap needed a booster, in my washing machine.


    BUT....this past summer, I only used Cheer he powder and sometimes the prewash of 1 Tbs BIZ, , and I could not smell any difference In those shirts. IOW, they were no worse. They are always washed in 120°F water.


    I use borax to either get rid of a strong odor (the dog's bedding) or sweat and sunscreen. Apparently the Cheer did not Need it, and its perfume did not seem to be covering up any odor.


    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Cavimum
  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Pat, the more I read on your trials and tribulations, it does seem like your issue could be related to enzymes in detergent. Fragrance and colorant are probably in the irritation mix too. I do think regular ole liquid ALL free and clear is without enzymes, which is a good place to start, but I don't know the OB status on it. Greeny probably does. Can you do a trial of washing only in Tide Pur Clean unscented for a month and see how you do? Or the Seventh Generation that seemed to not cause you irritation? After seeing what my daughter went through, (I think the culprit is the Mex Ariel with it's heavy fragrance and colorant) I want you to get to the bottom of this and hopefully the correct detergent will reveal itself to you asap. My daughter is a young adult and can and will heal well, but you are older and things will take longer for you. Be well Pat.

    Side note along Cavium's lines, we used Charlie's for a while a number of years ago, and while it didn't clean worth squat for us, no one had irritation from it. We also used Nellie's and Country Save for several years (this is back when I had my crummy front loaders) and same, they didn't clean very well for us, but no one had skin irritation from those. Just a mention in case you can't settle on a detergent. Those three detergents have their place.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked SEA SEA
  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    Look at the labels. I recently looked at regular all free and clear and it contained enzymes now. The version I could done without enzymes was all small and mighty and it seems harder to find. May be discontinuing it who knows.


    Also watch for free and clear detergents with fragrance still in them. Yes it happens more than you think, they put fragrance in there then cover it up with yet something else to make it “go away”. Discovered this by label reading and a couple dermatologist for my daughter. I’ve found with her she’s not allergic to fragrance or colorant though just specific enzyme. It may not be that way for everyone though.


    I agree with Sea Sea. I tried Charlie’s, Molly’s suds and rocking green. Mine cleaned well and looking at the ingredients they were a bunch of water softeners and sodium percarbonate no actual surfactants. Charlie’s has some ingredient that can cause severe burns on some people and once I did more research I threw the bag away. Happens a lot in the cloth diapers community and just didn’t want to risk it. I really wish we could design our own detergent. For myself it would be a combo of a few detergents lol too bad we can’t buy the ingredients needed to actually do so.


    With hard water sttp or calgon work loads better than borax and don’t have the rinsing issues.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Larisa Batchelor
  • Cavimum
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    All free & clear he Small & Mighty has enzymes. Someone here corrected me on that, so I called the company and to clarify, and this is correct. Their Small & Mighty Free Clear formula changed, and that explained the itching, and why I can no longer use it for my clothes, ever since the last bottle I purchased. It did not have enzymes in the past, but once "Stainlifters" went on that front label, it was over for me.

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    Seems like they changed them to include enzymes in all their formulas. Purex free and clear (also made by Henkel who makes all and persil) don’t contain enzymes. May be one to try. Arm and hammer free and clear also don’t contain enzymes.

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Thank you, Larisa. I will look into those.

  • dadoes
    4 years ago

    Fragrances in "free & clear" detergent formulations may be to neutralize objectionable odors caused by other ingredients, not to impart a perfumed scent to the product.

  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    The regular, original, old All Stainlifters Free/Clear LIQUID has enzymes? I think not. Are you sure?

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    They recently reformulated their detergents.’I haven’t found one yet without enzymes.

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Pat, give them a call and ask. They told me my bottle has them. I read the sku bar code to the customer service rep.

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    Pat --- this morning at the grocery, I looked at the ALL free & clear bottles on the shelves. The Small & Mighty lists enzymes on the back label. Their formula that is not Small & Mighty did not list enzymes. Both had the word "Stainlifters" on the front labels.

    This just adds to the confusion.

    Looks like I need to get the type that is not the super concentrated Small & Mighty, which did not have enzymes until recently.

  • Larisa Batchelor
    4 years ago

    I just picked up one that has stainlifters and it now list enzymes. Wonder if it’s an older bottle you got? I’m going to call them and ask for a better answer for all this mess.

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    This one listed enzymes: (tap on photo to enlarge)


    This one did not:



  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Cavium,

    A lot of people are going to experience irritation once they start using new stock of their long time safe standby free and clear ALL liquid that used to not have enzymes. Personally, I like enzymes in laundry detergent, but I'm not sensitive like some others when it comes to things like this. For me it's dish liquid that gets me. I'm currently battling hand eczema from using a new to me dish soap. It always happens.

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    SEA SEA - How awful for you! I always have dry hands and usually rely good old Playtex on rubber gloves For serious pot washing, or any time I'm using cleaning products of any type including Method and Mrs Meyers.


    Have you tried any of the free and clear dish liquids?

  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Cavium,

    I can't use rubber gloves--allergic. I used to be able to use Palmolive dish liquid of all things--green dye and fragrance. Go figure. I used it since the 1980s without too much issue. Occasional outbreaks. Then, either the formula changed, or I did. I had to stop using it spring 2018. I've been on the search since then. I have been semi-okay with Ivory dish liquid even though it has a rather strong fragrance as long as I don't do marathon dish/pots/pans washing sessions. Then one daughter moved back home and we had to merge household stuff. We've been trying to use up her dish soap to get it out from under my crowded sink and now I'm paying the price. I'm going to give it away once I find a taker. Next stop is Seventh Generation unscented dish soap and maybe Biokleen makes one too. I have not used those yet. If anyone knows of anything else, unscented, but also gets dirties clean, I could us a suggestion. I can't use Method or Mrs Meyers--eczema. I've been reduced to washing pots and pans in Dr. Bronner's for months at a time in the past, not that that is gentle on the hands, but the unscented variant is rather innocuous otherwise. I might have to go back to that until this passes.

  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    i'm only using the enzyme-free All Free Clear liquid and hot water in my major wash following an enzyme detergent pre-wash/soak. When Mama was espousing warm/cool pre-wash/soaks, I just didn't "get" it, but when SEA SEA wrote about it in a recent post, I "got" it, and what a difference in my washes! Sometimes now I pre-wash/soak in Cheer powder and then follow up with Cheer powder and hot. Or Tide with Bleach. Just such a difference in clean when the enzymes have a chance to work in a soak first. And always let that soak run its full cycle out to the end before doing the final wash. Amazing. And I have the folks on this forum to thank for so much help -- Cavimum, dadoes, SEA SEA, beagle, Larisa, and our beloved Mama always. Hope I didn't forget someone here.

  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Forgot to mention, some of my enzyme pre-wash/soaks last for hours or overnight.

  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Great to hear Pat! The pre-wash/soak is the magic sauce for our laundry. I'm grateful to have learned about doing that on this forum. My only change to what I learned on this forum is I switched over to using full dose detergent, borax (when used), and oxygen bleach (when used), instead of light dosage detergent in the pre-wash. I get better end results doing the pre-wash/soak this way. For the official wash, I use a half dose of detergent and of course, this results in less residue left over. My soaks can last anywhere from 30 mins to several hours. I've not been brave enough to an overnight soak :-)

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked SEA SEA
  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    greeny, Wisconsin is beating the shirt out of Ohio State and I couldn't be happier after what OS did to UM!

  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Thanks littlegreeny. I'll look into it.


  • Pat Z5or6 SEMich
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Gulp.

  • suseyb
    4 years ago

    When the cloth diaper people were first talking about Charlie's and burning babies, they were advocating almost no detergent in the washing machine. Lately, they advocate a lot more detergent than I think is necessary, but they still say no to Charlie's. I don't know if that makes any difference to anyone.


    I have been using some kind of detergent my husband got me from Frankfurt. It works fine, but I'd like to find something in the US I like. LOL I just ordered the Grab Green powdered detergent. It would sure be nice if a powdered detergent without OB's was available in the US.

  • littlegreeny
    4 years ago

    Biokleen and Seventh Generation have powder detergents which do not contain OBs.

  • doreycrouse
    4 years ago

    I recently have had a slew of major stains on clothes. My dog puked in my bed conveniently, and a majority of the stain was removed after a 30 min warm soak with Tide USR. A standard hot wash removed it without an issue.

    Steak grease and A1 ended up on a newer dark red shirt. A 30 minute cold soak with Tide PurClean removed it completely before washing.


    Enzymes are very important to me in washing, so I feel for your allergies! Have you looked into all free powder?

  • Cavimum
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    SEA SEA - are nitril gloves an option? Some are heavy enough for multiple uses.

  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Cavium,

    Nitril I have not used yet. I do okay with vinyl gloves, which I use for work, but washing dishes or tubs in them is a pita because they only go up to the wrist. The soap gets in the gloves then it's concentrated inside the glove...doesn't work for dishes or tubs ime. I'll look to see if amazon has nitril that that goes up to mid-arm for dishes. Thanks for mentioning it.

    Meantime, I found one lonely bottle of Biokleen free and clear dish soap locally yesterday. Hopefully that will work alright for washing dishes and my hands will not object once I get passed this flare. Couldn't find anything else that might be acceptable in my store.


  • Cavimum
    4 years ago

    SEA SEA - if you have a Lowe's or Home Depot in your area, I've seen them there.


    doreycrouse - the ALL F&C powder has enzymes and optical brighteners. That's what my box says.

  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Great to hear Cavium! Thanks for the heads up.

  • SEA SEA
    4 years ago

    Pat,

    A client gave me a pouch of Biokleen Premium powder detergent. I don't have the box but I am not detecting an odor or scent in it. I've done a few loads with it, whites/warm soak/hot wash. It did very well. My first time using it. Upthread littlegreeny says Biokleen makes an OB-free powder detergent. Maybe he'll see this and know if this variant is OB-free. So far, so good with it.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked SEA SEA
  • Jenny Island
    4 years ago

    All of Biokleen should be free of optical brighteners. The Premium powder you mention has enzymes, but the regular Biokleen citrus essence powder and fragrance free powder are enzyme free.


    I hope the Biokleen dish soap is working well for you, SEA SEA. It‘s my favorite (especially the Lemon Thyme!) along with an occasional bottle of Joy for nostalgia.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked Jenny Island
  • littlegreeny
    4 years ago

    Biokleen does not have OBs in any of their formulas. I agree with Sea Sea, their premium plus powder formula works well.

    Pat Z5or6 SEMich thanked littlegreeny
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