Grisham's law comes to the bureaucracy

Annie Deighnaugh

Grisham's law:

In economics, Gresham's law is a monetary principle stating that "bad money drives out good". For example, if there are two forms of commodity money in circulation, which are accepted by law as having similar face value, the more valuable commodity will gradually disappear from circulation.


We are now seeing the same thing happen in the government bureaucracy. Those people who are nonpartisan, long-term employees of the government that make the system work by doing their jobs every day are now being politicized. Those who would support the rule of law and stand up to the illegal demands of *any* administration are being forced to make a choice...stay and undertake illegal acts or resign and maintain their integrity. In either case, the bureaucracy is worse off. The good leave and are replaced by the bad; the bad remain to behave even worse. We saw this with so many resignations of people who would not, could not stay to support immoral and illegal acts, from Shaub to Mattis and so many others. Grisham's law.


Latest edition: two bureaucrats at the OMB who, rather than illegal hold up payments to Ukraine that were required by law, resigned. Sandy, whose job it was to sign off on withholding the aid, was replaced with a trump political operative...Michael Duffey who was head of the gop in wisconsin.


See more on Sandy's testimony here: Why two White House officials resigned over Trump’s Ukraine scheme



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Annie Deighnaugh

The biggest problem with allowing this seeping corruption to continue is that it's almost impossible to root out once it sets in.

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Iris GW

is that it's almost impossible to root out once it sets in.

I agree!

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adoptedbyhounds

Did you mean Gresham’s Law, Annie?

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Annie Deighnaugh

Yes...pardon my bad spelling. It's correct in the quote.

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adoptedbyhounds

I’m not following how Gresham’s law has anything to do with employees.

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Annie Deighnaugh

abh, That the bad will drive out the good? When you have a leadership that is pushing their staff to do illegal or corrupt or immoral things, the staff without integrity will comply and corrupt themselves and the government actions further, and open themselves to kompromat, making them even more corruptible in the future. The staff with integrity will resign. In the latter case, it opens up positions for the corrupt leadership to appoint other corrupt or corruptible people.

That's what I mean when I say the bad will drive out the good....you lose the people with integrity and spread corruption among those who are left. It's the autocratic way.

And corrupt autocrats need corrupt people around them to do their bidding as that's how they achieve their corrupt ends.

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adoptedbyhounds

Still not following you, Annie. Gresham’s law says bad money drives out good money. I didn’t know what that meant. So I looked up “Grisham’s Law” and learned the term was “Gresham’s Law,” and that it applies to coins.

Anyway, if I understand the “law” correctly, an example might be two coins, say quarters. We know what happened when our government started minting quarters with less silver than previously had been used. The government decreed the coins had equal value. But that was not really true.

People placed more value on an old quarter with a higher silver content, than on a newer quarter minted with less silver. The result was that the good money with the higher silver content began to disappear. It wasn’t “driven out.” People chose to hang on to the “good money.” That is how the “bad money” with lower silver content displaced the good money. That makes sense because the amount and value of the silver in the good and bad money can be measured. These things can be expressed in numbers.

I’m not following how your opinions regarding President Trump are in any way related to Gresham’s Law. Plenty of opinion, but nothing weighed or measured.


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Annie Deighnaugh

abh, it's one thing if you disagree with my POV, another if you just don't get the parallel with people. But there's no need to insult me.

I've explained it twice. Either you get it or you don't.

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Ziemia(6a)

Annie, one just has to be a bit curious sometimes.

And, check out what Aristophanes did with it.

Gresham’s Law (also known as the Copernicus Law) is a principle used in economics, stating that bad money drives out good money. It basically means that if there are two forms of commodity money in circulation, and both are accepted by law to possess similiar value, yet are made from different materials (one cheaper and of worse quality than the other), the one that is cheaper will be used for payment and the more valuable one will be hoarded or exported and, at some point, it will disappear from circulation completely. This law was named after Sir Thomas Gresham, who was a financial agent of Queen Elizabeth I, yet he was not the first one to notice this occurrence.

At this point, you may be asking: But what does it have to do with work enviroment and it’s culture? Well, the nice and interesting thing about Gresham’s Law is that it can be succesfully applied to many other fields and circumstances. Workplace culture, otherwise referred to as organizational culture, can be defined as the enviroment created for employees that consists of leadership, human interactions, behaviours, beliefs and attitudes. It can make your workplace either pleasant or negative and apathetic. Bad culture is often the reason behind high turnover rates. What’s more, organizational culture is organical: it develops naturally and gradually over time. And I’d say that it’s people’s behaviour that drives it the most.

Aristophanes (446–386 BC), a comic playwright of ancient Athens, has paraphrased this law in his play ‘’The Frogs”, writing about the degradation of great politicians along with mentioning the bad coinage. His point was that when bad behaviour settles in and it has an advantage against good behaviour, it’s extremely hard to get rid of it. In the workplace, the advantage will mean that either the behaviour will be rewarder or, at least, it will not be punished, as ignorance and silence generally equals acceptance.

https://medium.com/@kowalskapaulina/greshams-law-and-how-it-may-explain-your-company-s-poor-culture-254dd6569007

Don't like my source? there are others.

Vice President Spiro Agnew used Gresham's law in describing American news media, stating that "Bad news drives out good news," although his argument was closer to that of a race to the bottom for higher ratings rather than over and undervaluing certain kinds of news.[30]

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Annie Deighnaugh

Interesting Ziemia...I didn't know that. Most apt.

I've seen similar results with internet fora where trolls can drive out the thoughtful posters.

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adoptedbyhounds

Nowhere did I disagree with your opinion, Annie. I made an effort to understand the “parallel” you see, but couldn’t make sense of it. Nowhere did I say you were wrong nor did I say anything intended to insult you. I have no need to do that.

I don’t see devalued coins “driving out” coins with a higher value. I see higher silver content leading people to remove coins from circulation. I see people amassing good coins for future profit. I don’t see anyone failing to recognize their inherent value.

If Gresham’s Law applies to bad employees driving out the good, I assume a parallel mechanism, as yet unarticulated, exists.

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graywings123(7)

Bad culture is often the reason behind high turnover rates.


It explains the high turnover rate at the White House. This from NBC News:

"Off the Charts" turnover


The top echelon of the Trump administration has become a high-speed revolving door — with turnover in 78 percent of the positions, a new study has found.


And 31 percent of those White House "A-Team" jobs have turned over more than once, the study by the Brookings Institution shows."It's historic, it's unprecedented, it's off the charts," the study's author, Kathryn Dunn Tenpas, told NBC News. "I've never seen this kind of turnover before."

In just 32 months, President Donald Trump's rate of change has surpassed "all of his predecessors who served four-year terms," she said.

The report focuses on the top 65 positions in the Executive Office of the President, which includes jobs like national security adviser, chief of staff, communications director, press secretary and director of national intelligence.


The study found 51 of the 65 positions have turned over since Trump took office.

Sixteen of those positions have turned over twice — or more, the study found.


The most recent departee was national security adviser John Bolton, Trump's third permanent pick for the job, who wasforced out earlier this month. Trump's first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, was pushed out for lying about contacts with Russia and is currently awaiting sentencing for lying to the FBI about those same dealings. His successor, H.R. McMaster was ousted to make room for Bolton.

Tenpas, who's studied White House staffing since the 1990s, attributed the high rate of the change to "the president himself. In all of my studies, I've never seen a chief executive who fires staff more frequently and more publicly than President Trump."

"It's extraordinary," she said.


The A-Team figures do not include Trump's Cabinet, where there's also been an unprecedented amount of tumult and turnover. Nine out of the 15 Cabinet positions that are in the presidential line of succession have turned over at least once, Tenpas found. That number surpasses the amount of change during entire first terms of Presidents Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama, and the one term of George H.W. Bush.

The elder Bush is the only president who came close to the amount of Cabinet turnover: eight, but that was over four years.

Prior to Trump, the trends in Cabinet and A-Team turnover were similar, Tenpas said. "There's a little turnover in the first year, a bigger uptick in year two, slightly bigger in year three, and then smaller in year four," with staff and Cabinet members generally staying on during a president's re-election campaigns.


The problems at the top are emblematic of a larger problem plaguing the Trump administration — alarge number of vacancies in high-level positions across the federal government. Trump has not nominated people to fill 143 positions that require Senate confirmation, according to an online tracker by The Washington Post and the Partnership for Public Service, a nonpartisan nonprofit that monitors presidential appointments.


The number of vacancies and employees temporarily filling other jobs leads to "upheaval and chaos" and is hampering the president's ability to get the most out of his agencies, Tenpas said.

Asked about the churn during an event at the southern border last week, Trump had a different take.


"I think we have tremendous stability," Trump told reporters in California. He added that having "acting" agency heads instead of ones confirmed by the Senate gives him "flexibility" and an opportunity to see if they're the right people for the jobs. "I'm seeing how I like them," he said.

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Ziemia(6a)

ABH: "Plenty of opinion, but nothing weighed or measured."

Your comment. Seemingly about Annie's OP and explanations.

It is an insult.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Re trump turnover rate... of course for trump "liking them" means how loyal are they to me. It has nothing to do with their experience, competence, knowledge, mental acuity, integrity, leadership skills or anything else. It's only will you defend whatever I say or do and keep your mouth shut.

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Ziemia(6a)

PS

ABH: "If Gresham’s Law applies to bad employees driving out the good, I assume a parallel mechanism, as yet unarticulated, exists."

I have found it "articulated" in a few places & It is articulated above.

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adoptedbyhounds

"If Gresham’s Law applies to bad employees driving out the good, I assume a parallel mechanism, as yet unarticulated, exists."

I have found it "articulated" in a few places & It is articulated above.

Great!

I can give you an example of the triggering mechanism by which good coins are removed from circulation here in the US. It's the measurable decline in the silver content of newly minted quarters. People voluntarily take the coins with higher value out of circulation. They are held in the hope the silver value will increase.

What parallel did you find? I read the articles you posted before you posted them. I didn't see any measurable parallel mechanism articulated, nor any parallel trigger. I didn't see any effort to measure the value of employees as good or bad.

Just an assertion that good employees are being "driven out" by bad employees, and a leap to conclude that this illustrates "Gresham's Law."



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Delilah66

Annie, there are none so blind as those who will not see. You owe no one any additional enlightening. Even Aristophanes and I (two ancient people) got it.

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Ziemia(6a)

Have at it abh. I will ignore the invite which feels like an invite to slip down the rabbit hole.

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