Structural Supports are horizontal beams held up by vertical columns. One has to be paired with the other. They go together. Beams don’t float without support. If you can’t afford it, consider it a blessing. Two ceiling heights like that would be very awkward.

I definitely didn’t explain it well. I’ll post a pic later. It’s an odd situation. Thanks for helping me.

When you install a column you need to consider how it will be supported all the way to the foundation and footings. For example, if you install a column on the 1st floor (over a basement) there is usually a steel or wood beam below it in the basement, and the columns supporting that beam are on reinforced concrete footings in the basement floor. The load then transfers down through the structure and is supported by the basement footings.

Bruce

I'm just going to drop this here, and then duck and run.

Houses with walls were designed by their architects to have walls.

What you want to do can probably be done. You just have to throw enough money at the problem, most of which you probably won't get back when you sell the house.

Really, if you want an open floor plan, you'll be much better off to sell that house to someone who actually likes having the privacy that walls confer, and buy a house that was designed with fewer walls.

You are looking to do a structural change without adding the beam and supports to keep your roof and house from caving in? Please don't do this. It's not HGTV - the wall support is there for a reason. Make the changes structurally sound. If you can't afford the beam and supports, you can't afford to make the changes to this house.

I really appreciate the information. I want to support the wall and I don't want to sell my house. That's why I'm here picking your brains. ;)

I'm attaching pics that might better explain what we want. And I got the size of the wall completely wrong. :/

I know I won't get much back in terms of the value of the house, but that's not why I'm doing it. We've lived here for 42 years and we love our community and neighbors.

We know this is no small project. I'm just trying to determine the cost difference between installing a beam and installing columns. The way this house is built, and unless I'm blind, there currently is no beam. I checked in the attic which shares the wall directly above it (hopefully the pics helps this make sense).

And if it helps, the house was built in 1970.

The first step is to get a structural engineer to design a system to support the load. Second step is to get some estimates from contractors. Third step is to write a check.

Unfortunately you can’t get an estimate on the Internet. The work is too complex.

I just had this done for ~3k. Framing (labor and lumber) only. YMMV. Get quotes... from someone who is insured.

If you do decide to do it, it would look much better to use a beam and not have those posts to deal with. Personally, I like rooms that are more cozy, so I would not do it at all.

The header for that opening is up in the wall where you can’t see it. A post inside the wall that you want to remove will have a post that supports one end of it. To be able to take the whole wall down would require a beam

from the outside wall of the house there all the way over to the inside wall that you want to keep. That is 100% the only real choice here, if you must remove the wall.

If you want posts, one will be exactly where the one exists inside the wall, right where the wall begins. And another would be right at the wall edge. Off center to the opening as a whole. NOT where you have placed them in your diagram. Not a good look, even if you balanced it with another faux post at the left end. It would all be off center.

Really, you’d not be gaining very much at all for the large expense. And you’d have lots of added expense that you may not have thought about with having to replace flooring, move electrical and HVAC, and hoping there are no plumbing stacks there.

Thanks so much, The Cook's Kitchen. That reeeeeally helps.

We're actually in the process of a complete renovation of the downstairs and the kitchen will be gutted so new floors everywhere. That's why we're considering this now. We've wanted to open this wall for a looooong time. There is electrical, but no plumbing, And if a beam is required, then I'd rather not have columns at all. We're were only considering that if it was much less expensive.

I'm actually kind of shocked that there isn't a beam. We have a contractor coming on Monday so I'm going to have him double check. It could be that the insulation is "hiding" it. But I don't want to pull it out just yet since it's covered in dust. And since he's coming on Monday, I'll just see what he says.

No, don't pull out the beam. Don't do anything else to that structural wall until you have an engineer look at it and give you your options like Mike says up thread. The Cooks Kitchen has the right idea - you will have this huge expense and yet not gain anything if you continue in this direction.

You don't need an engineer, you need a competent framer. You may be able to remove the section of wall and not have to install columns. Poke around a bit, please.

Just to be clear, I’m not pulling a beam. There is no beam right now as far as I can tell. I’m just trying to determine if I could add columns for support instead of putting IN a beam since I thought installing a beam would cost a lot more. But I’d only do that if it was a lot cheaper. What I’m hearing is that it’s tough to tell if it would be a lot cheaper without seeing the structure in person.

Just to be clear, I’m not pulling a beam. There is no beam right now as far as I can tell. I’m just trying to determine if I could add columns for support instead of putting IN a beam since I thought installing a beam would cost a lot more. But I’d only do that if it was a lot cheaper.

I think you are confused about the physics/engineering involved here. In general, all posts attach to beams, there is no need for a post without a beam.

If I am understanding you correctly, you currently have a standard stick framed load bearing wall. That wall is essentially a beam, the load from the roof and upper floor are borne by the two 2x4's on the top plate, which is then distributed to the bottom plate 2x4's by studs (2x4's) every 16" or 24". There are typically not beams or posts in stick built load bearing walls.

When you start removing studs, you must find a way to stiffen the top plate (make it bigger) so it doesn't bend under the load. This is commonly done by replacing the top plate with a beam when removing the entire stud or by adding a header beam when only removing part of a stud. This takes the load that was borne by the 2x4's that were removed and transfers it to the 2x4's on each side, which are enlarged to carry the additional load. Typically for a doorway you will simply add a 2x4 to each side. These double 2x4's are essentially posts.

The bigger the opening the thicker the beam needs to be in order to carry the load. In order to keep beam height and thus costs from rising to astronomical levels, posts are added to distribute the load down at points along the beam. So again, since generally the entire reason for adding posts is to shrink the beam size, there really is no such creature as a post without a beam.

To complicate things even more, posts concentrate loads that were distributed along an entire wall to specific points, and thus those points must be load bearing through the floor. In plain English this means that you often have to reinforce the footer under the post to carry the additional load.

Good luck

Disclaimer: I am not a professional at this but have some experience. Additionally, this is simplified and some of the more nuanced and technical aspects have been glossed over. I welcome additional input from the architects.

Also if you added columns, they cant support the floor above either, unless there is a concrete pad either dug into your basement, or into your crawl space with a post there too. The weight of the upper floor will cause the columns to sink, and the upper floor could collapse, without the posts under the house to support them.

You need to STOP and hire a structural engineer. Now. The fact that you can’t tell that there is an existing beam supporting the existing opening says that you quickly need a professional in to assess things. On an asymmetrical structure like that, the beam may not be where you think it would be. But be assured that there is one there, carrying a load, and supported from below as well.

You should not plan to touch ANYTHING here until a paid someone with the correct knowledge assesses the situation, in person, and then creates a plan for you. This posting is frankly pretty scary. I'm all for DIY. Except when it is very clear that DIYing is beyond someone’s capabilities. This is clearly such a case. Doing anything on your own here is much too risky. A 10K-15K beam install, designed and installed by a Pro, is not nearly as expensive as collapsing your house, and then being denied an insurance claim. Hire a Pro.

The fact that you can’t tell that there is an existing beam supporting the existing opening says that you quickly need a professional in to assess things. On an asymmetrical structure like that, the beam may not be where you think it would be. But be assured that there is one there, carrying a load, and supported from below as well.

Why does there have to be a beam in the section that is being removed?

So far as I know, there doesn't have to be a beam there, the wall could run all the way up to the roof ridge beam and the ceiling be tied into the wall with a rim joist or just directly to the wall studs. Or the ceiling could sit on top of the wall and then another wall could be constructed on top of those joists up to the roof ridge beam, just like the way every two story house is constructed... Those exterior walls that go up two stories without beams are still load bearing walls. I would be surprised if there were a beam in that wall, that would be an amazing waste of money.

Yes, a ridge beam could exist there. Probably does. But something also carries the weight of the lower ceiling joists and drywall. But the fact that the OP didn’t suggest it, or understand that there have to be vertical supports under it, Strongly suggests that this is outside their ability to diagnose, or ability to create a correct solution. The questions and diagrams show the lack. They badly need s capable on site Pro. This isn’t internettable.

Wow. I’m just gonna be straight. I’m very offended. I have no plans to do this myself. This started as just a question about COST. I get that it might be difficult to assess over the internet.

I NEVER said I was doing the work myself. I WILL BE hiring a contractor. In fact I mentioned that one is coming on Monday.

I was just trying to COST things out. I’m not an idiot. I don’t base decisions on HGTV. WTF?

Just to help commenters in the future ... maybe you shouldn’t make assumptions about the OP’s motives, plans, capabilities, thought processes...

I got some good info here but I really wasn’t expecting to be insulted in the process.

So I’d appreciate it if everyone just dropped it. Pretend you never even read such a stupid question as “how much does this cost” so you can all sleep at night.

Oh, and for those of you that think I’m an idiot for wanting to open the wall, please don’t waste my time. I asked about cost.

Heck, I just expected someone to say that either there’s a huge cost difference, there’s no cost difference or it’s not possible to know without seeing it in person.

I did get that last response and some great info from a few folks. But then I was called an idiot, that I lack a multitude of capabilities, that I base decisions on HGTV, that I have horrible tastes, etc. Wow.

Maybe I just don’t know the etiquette. Is it okay to ask questions on Houzz that I don’t know the answer to? Is it okay to not be a professional contractor? Is it okay to not know what I don’t know?

Maybe I’ll update this thread after I’ve destroyed my house and I’m living in a shed. Because I’m just that stupid, right?

You already got a local price, and said you couldn’t afford it. What more do you want from strangers across the globe? Especially since you persisted in not understanding the structural terms and issues at all. Even after you were corrected, you persisted in not understanding the issues. Even after you persisted in receiving the good and necessary advice to hire an in person structural engineer and contractor, you still didn’t get it. You still answer shopped.

So, get offended at the plain talk about how you aren’t getting it, and keep answer shopping. Maybe someone reading out there benefits, since it was all wasted on you, and you still don’t get it. You got your answer from your local contractor before you ever posted. You just didn’t like it. Just as you don’t like the truthful and useful answers that you’ve gotten here.

If you want a number so bad? Here’s one. $21,013.

@egfurnishings I‘m sorry that you had to experience the worst of Houzz on what I assume to be your first post. Some people clearly get off on putting people down. (How pathetic is that?) Anyway, you didn't do anything wrong here and if I can help you in any way, I’d be glad to.

Happy Thanksgiving ;)

Thanks @Sammy. That means a lot. I know a few folks here gave awesome information. I just don’t understand the insults. I wasn’t arguing with anyone.

I think most people here know more than I do about this. I was just continuing the conversation to glean more useful information. But folks made a number of assumptions about me and then insulted me for some reason. I don’t understand.

But the fact that the OP didn’t suggest it, or understand that there have to be vertical supports under it, Strongly suggests that this is outside their ability to diagnose, or ability to create a correct solution. The questions and diagrams show the lack. They badly need s capable on site Pro. This isn’t internettable.

I agree that the OP is a bit confused about how beams work, but I don't think there is anything wrong with their drawing. This is just a roof load and part of an attic load and a span that looks about 16'. That is doable with a fairly affordable gluelam (sub $600) without any intermediate supports. Really, this is just a standard glulam for a garage door header, which you can pick up at Menards for $399.

Certainly, you need a professional to do this, but it doesn't look that hard and I believe you can do it without any posts. Although I can't be sure that is the best way. The materials for this job are not going to be the big cost driver, it is probably going to be the labor that is going to get your attention. So it is really hard to comment on cost as labor costs are so regional.

I got some good info here but I really wasn’t expecting to be insulted in the process.

Welcome to the Internet. :(

A friend of mine who moderates another online forum says he has a yardstick for whether he should ban members who habitually offend other members: is this person more asset or more a$$?

There are times I wonder about that balance when it comes to some people who post here. No doubt there are some who wonder that about me, too, at times.

BUT! I know of at least one such person who's been banned here, who IMO probably shouldn't have been, even though this person's posts were sometimes so acidic they burned.

There's another who hasn't been, and who at times makes me cringe or fume. However, sometimes I read this person and think, "that needed to be said."

It's unfortunate, but there are lots of members of web forums and social media who have valuable information to contribute, but can also be abrasive. I wish they'd be more polite, but if you want the benefit of their expertise, sometimes you just have to develop calluses.

Hi to the OP, I am a licensed structural engineer. Sorry I do not read these forums daily and just saw your question. When it comes to structural work there seems to be an abundance of online “experts” more than willing to give their advice or criticism. I’d imagine doctors have to deal with similar situations.

Anyway, there are some key variables you are not describing that make it impossible to give a cost online. A few folks have ventured a guess with some assumptions I am not brave enough to echo. Most likely what you want isn’t terribly complicated as Bry911 suggested. What you need is a licensed contractor and a permit. Depending on where you live you can pull the permit yourself or have the contractor do it. The contractor will usually have a goto engineer on hand to design what you want. Stay active in the process and ask questions. On larger projects it never hurts to hire your own engineer for a second opinion. I’m not sure a job like this would qualify.

Just curious if you got the work completed. I have been seeking estimates recently for wanting to do similar. I do have construction experience but minimal. Not enough to feel confident in taking this type of task on myself. That said we have roughly 30 ft of wall we want to remove. We just purchased the home I have wanted since I was 6 but want the open floor plan. It is a 2 story 3600 sq ft colonial and was remodeled from the original to have multiple apartment/ rooms for rent. The best information I got from reading the comments that I have failed to take in consideration is under the house and how that weight would be supported if we used vertical columns. Luckily I recently located a competent framer builder. Personally I love diy and can't wait for this process to be done so I can finish the other portions I have planned. We want to eventually turn it to a bed and breakfast

Just for anyone who is interested… $400 a LF plus plumbing moves, electrical, and Sheetrock\texture, paint plus demo… yeah probably about 15k.

I see this is a thread from last year and I'm guessing egfurnishings never wants to come back here, but I want to thank him/her for the question. I am contemplating removing part of a wall that I assume is load bearing. Bry911's explanation above is helpful to a novice like me. Don't worry, I'm not knocking out walls - just trying to figure out how it is done.

And my favorite line from this thread: A friend of mine who moderates another online forum says he has a yardstick for whether he should ban members who habitually offend other members: is this person more asset or more a$$?