Graham: "Trump admin incapable..... incoherent"

jama7(6)

Maybe this is a better reason for impeachment; Trump admin is too stupid to pull off a QPQ.

Let's just add it to the long list of reasons perhaps.

Note: No sign of Graham's statement on Fox News. Such is life in Happy Trumpland!

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/graham-trump-admin-incapable-quid-pro-quo

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dandyfopp


Lindsey knows first hand.


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Kathy

How he has flipped! Protecting his back.

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paprikash

Stupid is using impeachment to beat an elected President because he cannot be beat at the ballot box.

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Iris GW

Stupid is using impeachment to beat an elected President because he cannot be beat at the ballot box.

That is not what this is about. Do you believe that Trump can do anything and not be held accountable? Because impeachment is about being held accountable for something you did.

Should Nixon have not been impeached? Clinton?

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Joaniepoanie

Stupid is NOT impeaching a president who has obstructed justice, abused his power by bribing a foreign country for his own political gain, violated the Emoluments Clause, colluded with a foreign adversary to win an election. Clinton was impeached for lying about an affair——-that it pales in comparison to Trump’s offenses is quite the understatement.

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Joaniepoanie

Graham should resign. He will be a juror when Impeachment reaches the Senate and has stated he will not read the evidence, which means he’s already reached a verdict. I don’t know what Trump has on him, but if he has an ounce of sense he should retire before he goes down with the Trumptanic.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Yes he should resign if he's refusing to read any transcripts and is chair of the senate judiciary committee no less!!! Dereliction of duty and a refusal to uphold his oath of office.

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Annie Deighnaugh

So what does trump do....does he cheer because graham is defending him, or does he get ticked off because graham is saying he's an idiot?

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dandyfopp

The GOP has opened the door wide and welcomed a completely lawless executive.

If they don't hold him to account, expect every future president to take advantage of the lawlessness they embrace now. Eventually they will lose power and suddenly find that they care about things like obstruction and abuse of power.

At that point, too late.

2020 is blue.





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jama7(6)

Graham has essentially called Trump a moron. Most people don't need to be hit over the head with a 2x4 to know that...actually he was hitting us over the head. Too bad the reporter was also an idiot for not focusing on that incredible comment and getting him to expand on it. Some of them are simply hopeless....


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dandyfopp

We are at the phase where being an incompetent idiot is preferable to being a criminal.


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jama7(6)

I am furious that Graham is being allowed to get away with a public statement that he has no intention of conducting a fair process...as in even reading the testimony. C'mon Pelosi....let's do some multi tasking!

Under Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of the Constitution, a Member of Congress may be removed from office before the normal expiration of his or her constitutional term by an “expulsion” from the Senate (if a Senator) or from the House of Representatives (if a Representative) upon a formal vote on a resolution agreed to by two-thirds of the Members of that body present and voting. While there are no specific grounds for an expulsion expressed in the Constitution, expulsion actions in both the House and the Senate have generally concerned cases of perceived disloyalty to the United States, or the conviction of a criminal statutory offense which involved abuse of one’s official position. Each house has broad authority as to the grounds, nature, timing, and procedure for an expulsion of a Member. However, policy considerations, as opposed to questions of authority, have appeared to restrain the Senate and House in the exercise of expulsion when it might be considered as infringing on the electoral process, such as when the electorate knew of the past misconduct under consideration and still elected or re-elected the Member.


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jama7(6)

dandyfopp

We are at the phase where being an incompetent idiot is preferable to being a criminal.

Looks like it's Happy Hour ...we got Twofers!

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cattyles

I guess they no longer expect any of us to be able to read the constitution for ourselves. What a mess.

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socks(10a)

Our country is in a weakened state. It’s scary.

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cattyles

My rural Texas county had/has a meth problem.. A support group of the Outlaws worked with a corrupt deputy sheriff to package and distribute vast quantities of methamphetamine. The sheriff tried to save his job by claiming to know nothing about it. He was asked to resign for incompetence. He ran for office again and embarrassed himself. This was about 15 years ago.


I wonder what would happen now? Trump is like a destructive parasite that has wormed its way into some people’s brains and rendered their common sense and good judgement inaccessible.

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lurker111

Because impeachment is about being held accountable for something you did.

In the real world, yes. In pelosi paranoia world, it's about Schiff's psychotic delusions.

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Iris GW

I'm not sure that statement reflects the real world, if you know what I mean.

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Joaniepoanie

lurker——

In the real world, yes. In pelosi paranoia world, it's about Schiff's psychotic delusions.

********

How many in Trump’s orbit indicted or in jail? How many waiting in the wings....like Rudy and his pals? Are they a figment of Schiff’s psychotic delusions?

Now Graham is once again saying Trump is too stupid....before too stupid to collude, now too stupid to qpq.....he inadvertently makes an even stronger case for impeachment!

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lurker111

lol^^^

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jama7(6)

When in doubt, LOL or Meme. :)

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Delilah66

Stupid is as stupid does.

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Ziemia(6a)

Stupid is forgetting the Constitution sets how the President is elected AND how the President is removed.

Stupid is forgetting there are some performance requirements in the US Constitution.

(We basically elected those who vote for President - we do not directly vote for President.)

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

So that everybody knows, here is what Graham said:

“The whole process is a joke. The whole idea that there’s a quid pro quo based on somebody changing their testimony presuming there was,” Graham told reporters in a video posted to Twitter by his director of communications. “This is a political vendetta. … What I can tell you about the Trump policy toward Ukraine. It was incoherent. It depends on who you talk to; they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo.”

How odd, thinking that being "incapable" and "incoherent" are grounds for a defense.

Kate

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numbersjunkie

Graham has read the transcripts. Of course he has. His message was to the cult followers. DON'T READ THE TRANSCRIPTS! Remember when Trump said not to believe what you see and hear? Now they're going a step further: don't even allow yourself to see (read) or hear (listen to the public testimony). It's all they've got left - a bunch of loyal followers who will follow them off a cliff, no questions asked!

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Izzy Mn(4)

12-2016

Graham says his campaign emails were hacked by the Russians. Do you want to bet these emails were handed over to Trump to hold power over Graham. That must have been what Trump discussed with Graham on the fateful day on the golf course when he suddenly became a trump supporter.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/14/politics/lindsey-graham-hacking-russia-donald-trump/index.html

12-2017 Trump, Graham and golf game

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-lindsey-graham-and-trump-are-best-friends-2017-12

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blfenton

numbersjunkie - thanks for your comment. I couldn't figure out why Graham wouldn;t read the transcript but what you said makes sense. He has read it but he doesn't want trumps base or more specifically the independents, to read it.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Yes, excellent point, numbers.

Kate

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adoptedbyhounds

"Because impeachment is about being held accountable for something you did."

Obviously not. The phone call the FWB claimed was so troubling took place on July 25, 2019....years after Dems had mobilized to undo President Trump's election.

As Newt Gingrich explains, the scheme was well under way. The dates he gives are not "opinions." They are facts. Nancy Pelosi admits Dems chose the phone call/FWB "bombshell" as their pretext for impeachment because it was easiest for Americans to understand.

Translation: We think Americans are dumb enough to believe that sitting presidents are not permitted to ask foreign counterparts to "look into" what a well connected American citizen was doing in return for lavish payments from a foreign corporation.

FTA: By Dec. 15, about five weeks after the presidential election and
roughly five weeks before the presidential inauguration, Vanity Fair
published an article by Emily Jane Fox headlined “Democrats are Paving
the Way to Impeach Donald Trump.”
The focus at that phase of the effort
was the family business, the Trump Hotel in Washington, D.C. and
possible personal financial improprieties (all of which disappeared
within a few weeks and were replaced by "Russian collusion" as the focus
of Democratic coup efforts).

By the day of the inauguration,
January 20, 2017, the impeachment hunger was great enough that the
Washington Post headlined Matea Gold’s article "The Campaign to Impeach
President Trump Has Begun."

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/newt-gingrich-resistance-trump-impeachment

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barncatz

This wasn't entrapment. Trump thumbed his nose at restraints on his power and dared anyone to stop him from Day 1.

Remember the preview of Trump's unconstitutional actions? Trump encouraged a foreign government to commit a crime before he was elected.

Trump's violation of the Constitution began on Day 1- with jacked up prices at Trump Hotel paid by foreign governments attending the Inaugeration and sliding directly into Trump's pocket.

Trump refused to give up control of his private businesses and hid his tax returns. His business started charging government employees for golf carts used to protect him and we paid Trump to feed Xi chocolate cake.

The Trump Hotel and other emoluments corruption concerns never "went away" and they're still being litigated.



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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Might it be considered a bottomless pit of offenses - or maybe an endless basketful?

And incoherence seems to be S.O.P. for the GOP and its flunkies.

What are 'FWB' and 'FTA'?

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jama7(6)

I don't know why the dems are impeaching on only 1 offense. Why not take up the obstruction charge that Mueller couldn't clear him of and stated should be handled by congress?

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Annie Deighnaugh

...ask foreign counterparts to "look into" ....

There we go again with the literalism and not seeing what was really being proposed here.

trump held up the funding, held up a WH meeting while asking for a favor...talk to my consigliere for the details...details in fact down to almost dictating what he wanted z to say and where he wanted him to say it.

Fair warning to all the trumplicants. If you're being pressured by a mobster and he says to you, "How's your Mom doing...she enjoying the weather in Miami?" he is not really asking about your Mom. He is making a threat and letting you know that he knows where she lives and has the wherewithal to bring her harm. If he gets in court and says, "All I did was ask him how his mother was doing...no crime in that, right?" one needs to use their intelligence to recognize that the literal words are not the crime...the implication of what he said is; one needs to be able to put themselves in the shoes of the person being threatened who knows exactly what the mobster means despite the innocuous language used.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I wonder too, jama....all I can think of is if they think that by maybe putting enough pressure on him with a solid case with incontrovertible evidence, he'll resign and they won't need the rest. But IMO, trump will never resign...he can't...putin won't let him.

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Jenn TheCaLLisComingFromInsideTheHouse(5)

"How's your mother doing, she enjoying the weather in Miami?"

can also be read as:

"You have a nice shop here, it would be a shame if something bad happened to it. Luckily for you, I can protect your investment for the low low price of *extortionary protection payment amount*..." (as the guys with baseball bats or gasoline and matches stand in the background)

With the way Trump's campaign and the RNC have intertwined all the money so that you can't run as a Republican without publicly supporting him (or you'll have to have the money to finance your own entire campaign), he's doing the latter more than the former examples.

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blfenton

I think Pelosi was just biding her time knowing that he would do something that was by definition an impeachable offense, that was provable and that the situation was easily understood by the American people.

The Mueller investigation became bogged down with a lot of detail and was tough to get ones mind around it, the Emoluments Clause is iffy to understand. But extortion is easily understood and easily seen in a simple phone conversation and was proven by career service employees and not politicians or any of trumps yes-men even though some are testifying.

ETA- spelled Nancy Pelosi's name wrong and corrected it - typos! uggh

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patriciae_gw(07)

Adopted, I will refresh your memory is reminding you that Hunter Biden's connection with Burisma had already been investigated and it was decided that there was no there there.

However when the FBI investigated Russian interference in our electoral process Donald Trump was found to have interfered multiple times in the investigation.

ETA: I agree with BL. I do wish more Americans understood what a Representative Republic means so we would not have to wait for something to be done that the dimmest amongst us could understand and so be behind. We have people for that-the understanding part. This could have been over in 2017.

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sheesh(5b)

Putin isn't the only reason Mr Trump needs to stay in office. The Second District of New York is ready to go with unpardonable offenses, and Mr Trump knows it. I think he hopes to die in office to avoid prosecution.

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lily316

Don the con is acting more and more like a mafia boss and he knows them well. How appropriate his first name is.

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jama7(6)


Annie Deighnaugh

I wonder too, jama....all I can think of is if they think that by maybe putting enough pressure on him with a solid case with incontrovertible evidence, he'll resign and they won't need the rest. But IMO, trump will never resign...he can't...putin won't let him.

I actually think the obstruction case against Trump attempting to prevent the investigation into Russian collusion wouldn't be that difficult to prove. There seems to be at least 10 instances where he attempted to shut down the investigation. You wouldn't have to prove all 10...we'd take 3 or 4. :)

But when the redacted report was finally released to the public, it outlined 10 episodes of possible obstruction of justice by Trump, including: ordering James Comey to drop the FBI investigation into national security advisor Michael Flynn; directing the White House counsel to fire Mueller; dictating a message to Attorney General Jeff Sessions to limit the Mueller probe; telling witnesses publicly not to cooperate; having Cohen not contradict him in congressional testimony about Trump Tower Moscow; trying to hide emails exposing Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with Russians for “dirt” on Hillary Clinton.

After Trump fired Comey in May 2017, his behavior entered a dangerous new stage.

“At that point, the president engaged in a second phase of conduct involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both private and public to encourage witnesses not cooperate with the investigation,” according to the report.

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Izzy Mn(4)

---And isn't it obstruction to tell people to not testify?

If everything is fine and no crimes then what's the issue?

Just heard

Graham is now saying ambassador Sondland must be a "undercover" Democrat. Why else would he change his statements about Trump and Ukraine...

Oh Lindsey, maybe he decided it was in his own interest to tell the truth.

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chase_gw

I kinda agree with Graham . Trump and his Administration is too incompetent to pull this off so he hired Rudy......double stupid. The extortion failed and was uncovered thanks to Trump's stupidity....that call , with so many in attendance , was really stupid.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Yeah right, graham...an undercover dem who paid a cool mil to the trump inauguration to get an ambassadorship just to tank the administration. Now *that's* too convoluted for the dems to ever execute.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I think emoluments would be easy to prove once they got his tax records. He's not allowed to make any more money as president than what the congress has specified as his salary. He clearly has made more than that, just off the secret service, let alone doubling his mar-a-lago fees after becoming president. The only problem is, no one on the right seems to take such a blatant violation of the Constitution seriously. However, I do. There's a reason for that clause and it's an important one.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

I don't know why the dems are impeaching on only 1 offense. Why not take up the obstruction charge that Mueller couldn't clear him of and stated should be handled by congress

My understanding is that when more articles of impeachment are added it may make it easier for the senate to cast doubt on any one of them which then gives the senate an out to vote no. Having just one article which is clad solid wrong doing makes it harder to vote no. If we have a political scientist in our midst perhaps they can shed more light.

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Annie Deighnaugh

vgkg, I'd think it'd be the other way around...if he's charged with 3 counts and found guilty on only one, he's still guilty...not that if he's charged with 3 counts and found not guilty on one, he's not guilty on all...

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jama7(6)

Nixon was charged with 3: abuse of power, obstruction and contempt of congress. This would be the minimum # of charges for Trump now. I don't get it although I do believe Schiff said yesterday these refusals to testify when subpoenaed would not be played out in court which would take months but instead would be added to the "obstruction charge".


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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

vgkg, I'd think it'd be the other way around...if he's charged with 3 counts and found guilty on only one, he's still guilty.

Yes that should be how a normal senate would work, but we know how repubs would spin it by focusing on one weakness and extrapolating it to each article as being in question. It gives them an out by saying trump is not guilty due to doubt about the process, just like they're trying to do now in the court of public opinion. The repubs removing trump from office would be political suicide and they know it, they'd look for any excuse to get out of that box. Not a statesman among them.

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jama7(6)

Vgkg...We know the Senate won't convict but if for no other reason, I think precedent has to be set with outlining Trump's obvious abuses...all of them. If not, future POTUS's will have an open field day; we'll have no oversight or control whatsoever.

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Annie Deighnaugh

My biggest fear is trump being found not guilty and winning another 4 years in which he will behave with absolute impunity. It will unleash all of his worst behaviors and instincts with no checks and balances, leaving the US and the world in a place unrecognizable for it's loss of freedom, it's corruption, and long-term damage to the global economy and the planet.

(Yeah, trumplicants, my hair is on fire and for good reason!)

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paprikash

My biggest fear is Trump will not win another 4 glorious years and we will be stuck with any one of the democrat candidates put forth so far. Can’t you guys find anyone better than your current lot of goofballs?

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Annie Deighnaugh

You're going to blame us for 'goofballs' when you've got the most corrupt, criminal and dense narcissist ever in the wh? Even his own Secy of State called him an effin' moron and his own chief economist said he has the IQ of an inbred tanning bed.

SMH

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Iris GW


Anyone is better than Trump.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Three thumbs up Iris!

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paprikash

No - anyone was better than Hillary!

Trump is doing a great job — Party first people just can’t bring themselves to admit it.

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Chi

Based on what? Unemployment? Did Republicans think Obama did a great job because he dramatically deceased unemployment during his term?

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jama7(6)

Percentage of increase in stock market under Obama/Trump. It's a important part of the economy but pretty much only helps the wealthier 50%. We're still waiting for Trumpers to give credit to Obama and admit that Trump came in with a winning hand already in play.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Now chi & jama...don't forget about that big beautiful wall that mexico is paying for that can be undone by any old reciprocating saw from Lowes or Home Depot!

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woodnymph2_gw

I'm with Annie. That's my worst fear, also ---- another 4 years of Trump and America will be unrecognizable.

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