The programmed menu is optional when using the Miele. You can enter all settings manually. Their plumbed model is the bees' knees. I personally decided against the large XXL, and have never missed it. But then, I also have access to a very large oven in Bluestar all gas range. The Miele CSO is very versatile and I would absolutely buy it again

I've heard great things about the Miele. I went into the Chicago showroom to check them out and even the rep had trouble with all the buttons and gadgetry. The Gaggenau also interests me, though I'm sure it has its share of technology. I'll go check out the Miele one again. Thanks!

Thanks for reposting this, and for breaking down the specifics. Very helpful!

I think Dan has done a great job of summarizing the various options on the market. I have the Miele XL non-plumbed. Neither the XXL nor plumbed were options at the time when I had to make a decision. I have had it now for 4+ years. I love the oven. Use it everyday in some capacity. You can simplify the operations using the settings. I have it set to turn on in the oven modes screen rather than the home screen as this is what I use 95% of the time and it is more intuitive when I have friends/family using the oven. If you want to go to the home screen for maintenance, settings, favorites, gourmet modes, just hit the back button. I also turned off the auto rinse as the oven is almost always too hot to run this cycle after a mode that uses steam. I do it later after dinner. I have found some of the auto/gourmet modes useful. Examples are “skin” tomatoes, blanch beans, steam spinach, corn on the cob, whole potatoes etc. I find it gives you a good starting point for how long these might take. I also program my favorites such as baking rolls, sour dough, hamburger buns etc where I use multi steps. The reheat function is there as well if you need that - I set mine manually. As far as cleaning - I have yet to have to do a “deep” clean on my oven - it looks almost but not quite like new. I do not cook fatty meats or splattering dishes. I use my outdoor grill or self clean oven for those. I would STRONGLY suggest getting the 5 year or whatever warranty Miele is offering. I have had service calls out of The initial one year warranty. Good Luck!

I still love my Gagg! I've used both the descale and the cleaning function without issue. My suspicion is that both the cleaning cartridge and the descaling cartridge are the same, but the cleaning function is longer, and of course the price is different on both! I just got a descale notice a few days ago, so I'll see how well it self cleans with the descaling function. I don't know what I can tell you that hasn't already been said by Dan, except it's all true! One other function that I like is the steam reduction. I don't recall reading much about this, so perhaps not everyone offers it? What it does is reduce the amount of steam in the oven so you don't get blasted when you open the door. Of course, I don't always remember to use it! At the end of the day, having the steam is wonderful, it's easy to clean, it looks pretty, and it just feels like a solid piece of equipment. It's probably too early to discuss longevity at 3 1/2 years in.

Unlike temperature precision, I don't know that having the ability to adjust the humidity in 1% increments is ever something that you will need or notice. I think that it's gimmicky, but then again, I do have limited % choices, and ignorance is bliss? Maybe someone with a Miele can chime in.

I'm not around as much as I used to be, but I'll check back if anyone has a specific question they'd like answered......

Yeah, 1% precision on humidity is a gimmick. What is not a gimmick is the ability to select some steps (even 20% or 30% increments is fine) and the ability to select humidity both below and above 212°F. I don't think all of the ovens can do these things (e.g. the Wolf mentioned earlier in this thread).

Did I say that I love my Gagg? For all those that don't like the touch screens, have a look at my "setting wheel", which is as non-tech as it gets:

I went to the Gaggenau showroom yesterday and checked out all the candy. A chef was doing a demo and showed me a bit around the oven. It looked small but she put a half sheet pan into the oven perpendicularly (is that a word?) and it fit. Do you ever wish it was bigger?

Width is a constraint on any model that I am aware of. The manufacturers seem to want to design these ovens to work in a 24” or 30” (with trim) wide space. Personally I would prefer more width than height but that does not appear to be a direction any manufacturer is going. I find my XL fine for most items. I just wish I could fit a 1/2 sheet pan side to side. I find jelly roll size pans work well.

24" is about 60cm. That's a standard size for ovens and ranges outside of the US. Having used both, I can positively state that it is a little too small for a stovetop. Pots always get crowded. But it actually isn't all that bad for ovens. Most of the time, I don't need more space. And if having a smaller oven means that my oven preheats faster, distributes heat/steam more evenly, and I gain enough space in my kitchen for another oven, then that's actually all really good.

Having said that, I am very glad that when we remodelled our kitchen, we decided to keep our range. Initially, I thought it would be overkill to have the oven in the range, plus the two new wall ovens (CSO and SpeedOven). But in hindsight, this was a very fortunate choice. Every so often, I appreciate a bigger oven cavity, and then I have it in my range.

On the other hand, I have discovered that when cooking with steam, I can safely pack foods much closer together. So, while a big cavity in a regular oven is valuable, in my steam oven, I don't actually miss it at all. And yes, with a little bit of effort, I actually can fit a half-sheet into my CSO. It would be nice if Miele had modified the rails to make this a little easier, but overall it works fine.

For those of you with the plumbed Miele, doors the water drain well after cooking is complete? In addition to not having to refill the water, does the plumbing also minimise cleanup required?

KimG - I can put my half sheet in my Wolf if I slide it in on the racks themselves. It doesn't easily slide in and out, but it can be done. The included pans are about the same width, too.

@widdy23, For those of you with the plumbed Miele, doors the water drain well after cooking is complete?

It drains about as well as a kitchen sink would drain, which is not surprising because that's essentially what it is: a big stainless steel bowl with a drain in the center.

In other words, it's drained, but there might be a few droplets of water here and there. Most of the time, I just leave the door open overnight, and it dries by itself. But if you wipe it out with a towel, it dries a little faster.

In addition to not having to refill the water, does the plumbing also minimise cleanup required?

I have no frame of reference, since I only have the plumbed model. But in general, I don't do much for cleanup. An occasional quick wipe. But mostly it takes care of itself. On the other hand, I am also the person who doesn't need their appliances to look factory new. It looks generally very clean, as the steam is great for removing stains. But it doesn't look as if it came fresh from the factory.

For what it's worth, I ended up going with the Thermador double stream oven and have been using it for about a month now. I'm very happy with it thus far. I regularly use a double oven and I love that I now have the best of both worlds (stream oven can hold a large papa murphy's pizza for reference). I'm still learning all the features, but everything has turned out well and I frequently use the preprogrammed menu. cheers

I am just about to pull the trigger on the Thermador steam, glad to hear that you are enjoying it

@widdy23 I’m debating with the Therm double steam oven or keep them separate. Only reason is for security if one unit down or for swing door. But comes with price tag! Looking for input

@Donna Reed. I did consider getting separate units, but decided against it because it was over 1k more and I've always had double ovens with no issue.

@widdy23 I know it’s a lot more!!! I was justifying it as a Warranty cost! But budget is going over as it is so thinking to save here! What else did you get Therm?

I am thinking of getting the non plumbed XXL Miele combi steam oven and just wonder if there is a lot of water pooled at the bottom of the oven after a steam cycle.and how difficult or easy to clean the oven. Would appreciate any input to help me make a decision on buying or not. Thank you

@Donna Reed we did all Thermador: 36" fridge freezer column, double steam oven, Induction, downdraft w/ 1000 CFM blower, Sapphire DW, under counter microwave, wine column and plumbed coffee maker.

The Thermador steam oven isn't plumbed and although you do need to give it a quick wipe when done, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. I briefly played with Miele and felt cleanup was similar when also not plumbed. Now built in coffee - I wouldn't have that unless I could get it plumbed. I had a non plumbed Miele to start and it drove me batty!

In the review on the Gag Combi Oven, NT_Guy mentions that there is no "bake element". Does that mean it is not as good for baking bread as some of the other ovens.

@Matt Wyman I can't speak from personal experience, but there was a related thread here that you may find helpful. My impression is that people didn't find the lack of the bottom heating element to be a big deal.

XXL plumbed Miele here. So versatile. I love this oven. I bought it in 2018 and have no complaints. I have a Bluestar range (awesome gas cooktop!) but I rarely use the oven because the Miele does it all!

As long as none of the other ovens are occupied, I only use the BlueStar on the extremely rare occasion that I actually need the huge capacity, and on the more common occasion that I cook splattery foods and don't want to be as diligent about cleaning.

And of course, I use it almost daily for its amazing broiler. It's the only thing my 9 year old accepts for toasting English muffins.

Other than that, yes, that CSO is amazing. One of the smarter choices that we made when remodeling.

Also, you can never have too many ovens. We use them for baking, roasting, proofing, drying, steaming, sous vide, thawing, slow cooking, simmering, and as a warming drawer. And probably one or two other things that I forgot.

Same. I've been very happy with my Bluestar. Wok cooking is amazing. I love my Miele combi steam for all the reasons you listed and it's great for water bath canning too! It makes everything so easy.