"She then went on to tell me that DGS1's girlfriend is NOT being invited and if this means DGS does not come but goes to her family, that is fine with her (I know it is NOT fine with her)."

I'm confused by this - if she wants her son there, why is she not inviting his girlfriend?

" we've always dressed up for any holiday meal. We've done it that way for generations on all sides of everyone's family. It's simply the way we do things. "

Sorry anglo, but this comment is so pretentious it makes me want to gag. I feel sorry for you for thinking it's positive that you come from ancestors who had a consistent sameness about this or anything else. That attitude suggests they were unwilling or unable to make their own choices and decisions. If that were true for my ancestors about anything (it very much isn't), I think I would keep it to myself, it isn't something I'd want others to know.

We have a world class symphony in town. I love going there. Their performances are amazing. But one of the best parts is the audience. I've dressed up for the occasion, and so do many others. But I have also come straight from work wearing full motorcycle leathers. And many days, I just show up in street clothes. And so does a large percentage of the audience, from the cheapest rush tickets to the most premium seats in loge.

It's wonderfully inclusive and I love the experience of sharing the music with everybody dressed just the way they feel.

In fact, this extends to the musicians too. Of course, for evening performances they have strict dress codes. But I sometimes attend open rehearsals, and it's refreshing to see how the artists decide to either dress in a suit/dress or show up in gym clothes. And this goes both for the regular orchestra and for famous guest soloists and conductors.

Uniformity can be fun on occasion, but most of the time I cherish individuality much more. The same applies for parties that I host. You're welcome to dress up, but you're just as welcome to come as you are. My only request is that if you show up naked, please sit on a towel for hygiene reasons. /s

"We like it that way."

Sounds more like you want it that way, and everyone else is getting tired of your expectations! Let them set, create, and enjoy, the holiday traditions that work for them! Participate and enjoy your family, or get dressed to the 9s, set your perfect table, and eat your quail alone. Obsessing about the ungrateful little heathen brats that you raised!

I think I need therapy just from reading your posts!

Anglo, the statement you said struck a cord with me. ".... never shares anything with me - never did " . Although you are way better at it than my mother. It was mostly her way or the highway. Did you ever think that she never shares anything with you because you always criticized her and still do when she does shares with you? Of course she is upset that you don't want to go to the restaurant. In your book her idea is ridiculous and dumb. She sees it as another put down. I'm guessing when she said she wasn't going to do it again next year she had it. If I was a betting lady I would bet she killed herself last year trying to put out the perfect Thanksgiving for you and you just had to criticize something or several things. I think she is just tired of trying to live up to your expectations. Are any of her ideas or anything she does ever good enough for you? You better think hard before you loose her. Sounds like your son isn't thrilled to be around you either. He never comes home for Thanksgiving and only briefly for Christmas, but will fly home to spend times with his buddies.

While we did not dress formally for Thanksgiving, it was expected that after my Mom went to all the trouble of cooking that huge meal and setting a lovely table that we at least were clean and presentable (especially when we had our special guests who did dress up.) We did dress formally for Christmas dinner at my Grandparents. Nobody seems to do things that way any more and it does make me feel sad. But what works for some might not be to others' tastes. Doesn't make one or the other right or wrong, just different. JMHO.

Maybe I'm missing something--I've been sick and sleepless--but why has this turned into a pile on Anglophilia thread? She's been of an old fashioned and formal bent as long as I can remember. It seems like now she's being put on the defensive because her daughter is overwhelmed by work and cranky and everybody is blaming her.

Anglophilia, can you just take over Thanksgiving from your daughter, find a venue and a cook, and just make sure it all gets done and off her head? Maybe a private room at a restaurant or event center, or even an AirB&B (make sure the caterer does the cleanup).

Thanksgiving was always the low stress holiday at the cousins. The rules were lend a hand, be nice, no drama. Most people dressed nicely, but not fancy. Everybody always brought the same thing. From the age of 14, my role has been the guacamole (part of it is knowing which guests require an extra avocado each). We didn't do formal "I'm thankful fors" except once when a visitor asked to. We're all thankful to be together, and enjoy each other's company, and be free of want. That's why not getting to go makes me so sad. But at tiny Thanksgiving we'll be thankful to be together and enjoy each other's company, the few of us who will be there, and to be free of want. Life is good.

Hear, hear!

The sound of reason. Absolutely agreed. No need to pile more stress on anybody. No need to assign blame.

Figure out a way how everybody can enjoy each other's company and some tasty food without having to make anybody suffer.

Take it easy. And it'll be a great holiday.

We stopped celebrating Thanksgiving a few years ago and treat it as a vacation instead of an obligation. When our parents were alive (they passed in 2012) we had to visit them in Texas for at least either Thanksgiving or Christmas, and this was always stressful for me. After my father's funeral (four months after my mother's), I have only been back to Texas once, and that should suffice for quite some time. I've spent so much time and money visiting Texas to see relatives that I feel now they can visit me instead. Some of them I do not want to see at all.

We will be going to our house in Cathedral City for Thanksgiving holiday (not really for Thanksgiving) and will be trying to complete our redecoration of the house there. We are planning to rent a van or truck to haul large paintings of Kevin's that we want to hang there, which will give us more space here in Los Angeles. We are going to treat the days off as working days for the completion of our renovation. I don't feel that close to any of my relatives in Texas any more, although I do like when my niece visits or calls. Whatever meals we have on Thanksgiving this year will not be significantly different from any other meals we normally have.

One year I spent Thanksgiving in Mexico City, and my friends there did a somewhat traditional Thanksgiving meal, but it was very low key and enjoyable. That was as much as I would have wanted.

vacation instead of an obligation

Thank you Lars. I think this is what I was trying to put my finger on. This has been a really horrible year. I'd like to stay home and lick my wounds. I typically host Thanksgiving. I've already warned the person who brings the most guests, I wasn't doing it. I suggested they celebrate at their new house as this how I got to hosting it. I finally had a place to entertain and I bought it in September, so my house warming was Thanksgiving. I just want to hang out with my best buddy and not share him. He gets me. His focus will be on reuniting with me and having a good time. That, and we can each have an entire leg all to ourselves. Just sounds more like vacation than than an obligation. You put it well. That's what I'm after :)

I like the way holidays punctuate the year. I like a reason to step out of routines and gather with people I don't see every day. Dressing up and setting a pretty table are still fun things for me and my family indulge me. Putting together the meal is easy for me, I have a lot of help in the kitchen from my husband to my boys and I have no issues with outsourcing a dish, usually my appetizers, to a restaurant or caterer.

However, I no longer have an extended family. The few times I ever celebrated a holiday with my aunt and her relatives, I understood the concept of obligation instead of joy and I put a stop to that kind of waste of time, so I get people who see only downside. Spending holidays with my mother or grandparents was a pure joy. I miss them terribly.

About formality, there are some people who run households more formally than others. I don't think of myself as a formal person at all, but apparently people see the way I entertain as formal. Few things irritate me more than someone haranguing me about not needing to go to so much trouble whenI have people over. It's no trouble for me to serve my food on a platter or tureen instead of the pot I cooked it in. I have zero problem being served any way you please at your house. I am there for the company and conviviality. I don't judge you. Kindly don't judge me.

As for Thanksgiving, it appears that this year we will not celebrate at home. We will likely be in Tahoe with friends at their house. And that means the feast will probably be at a local hotel, or catered by that hotel. I'll be bring some desserts from the bakery at home, and wine, of course.

Maybe I'm missing something--I've been sick and sleepless--but why has this turned into a pile on Anglophilia thread? She's been of an old fashioned and formal bent as long as I can remember.

I hope you feel better soon.

I think Thanksgiving is about giving thanks and enjoying family. But we are all different. I love Anglo, her descriptions of the formal give me a peek into a world I do not often see. She enlarges my world in a good way. I think Olychick's suggestion of perhaps Anglo getting a like minded group together was outstanding. There would be nothing wrong in having two Thanksgivings, one formal and one not.

My younger son who is well liked by all and a convivial sort has in the past been invited to and attended three different get togethers on Thanksgiving Day.

Sue, reading your original post makes me feel that all is well with the world. You are always like that and I thank you for it. You're a special woman and I hope you know that.

I haven't given Thanksgiving much thought yet but I better get to it. I love to have a big crowd over here and ours is an easy house to entertain in. In recent years, I've hosted neighbor feasts....inviting all of my immediate front, back, and next-door neighbors, plus a few more.

Those gatherings have been warm and wonderful, with anyone who wants to contribute food is more than welcome. It's been a multi-generational affair, and international, as well. There is no dress code but everyone seems to honor the event by polishing up a bit. Not too much, though. We have outdoor games and a fire pit for talking.

I love to entertain and do so frequently. I keep stacks of bulk white dinnerware in the pantry. My serving pieces are casual, hand hewn wooden platters, hammered metal trays and bowls, and colorful glazed pottery pieces.

Anyone who wishes to help clear the tables and work in the kitchen is more than welcome for most of my gatherings. We do host an annual dressy cocktail event after Xmas (most years....I was in mourning after the last election) and I hire some good assistants for the kitchen and bar tending.

So, Sue, thanks for reminding me to get the wheels turning in the right direction. We have a new family across the street who might welcome an opportunity to join in the fun.

Thank you Rizo. I try to always be as positive as I can. I don't mind if my children have other plans for any holidays, but they want us all together. My son and wife said from now on they want to do Thanksgiving at their house. We are all fine with that. My second daughter and her husband will be back up from Arkansas where they live. We see them often too. I hope every one has an enjoyable Thanksgiving wherever you have it.

Sue in Central Indiana and Izzi Too

A thoughtful comment, olychick. My own experiences? Among my and my wife's parents, two of the four became excessively and obsessively self-absorbed in their later years. Unfortunately, it served to put distance between them and their descendants because in both cases it evolved into being too difficult and unpleasant to be with or deal with them. Though none of us live that near to one another, visits were limited to fewer than would have been the case had they been more pleasant and fewer get-togethers were arranged that facilitated their presence. Because of too many arbitrary requirements that needed to be addressed to suit them.

Elmer, sweetie, were these relatives somewhat self absorbed when they were younger as well? My mother always said money and old age just make you more of what you already were.

I think it'll be just the two of us for Thanksgiving. We have had a very stressful year with several unfortunate events, but there is still so much to be very grateful for. So I'll make a nice dinner (whatever we are in the mood for, maybe traditional, maybe not) and a sinful dessert and we will count our many blessings.

zalco dear, as you well know, one had an ego that was overdeveloped and disproportionate to reality that wasn't as apparent in earlier times but the picture became clearer as the years passed and even when still in good health, being around them became unpleasant. The other one was a life-long worrier and neurotic who got over-fixated on themself during the social security years. They came first and anyone else's preferences, conveniences, and requirements came last and weren't a consideration. As a trivial example, you'll remember how many freckles, spots, and other normal things on skin were self-diagnosed as being melanoma and so requiring a child or grandchild to come to allow them to get immediate treatment. These were the easiest of the ridiculous "incidents" to deal with - "see a doctor first". No problems were ever found.

Your mother was always right, of course.

Sorry for the diversion from Thanksgiving. Here's a connection - the family went ahead with Thanksgiving plans most years that served as the best compromise considering work and travel for the greatest number of individuals involved. These troublesome ones were invited but not individually accommodated any more than anyone else. Doing so wasn't joyful and they complained anyway.

Functionthenlooks, your presumptions about me and my relationship with my daughter are jaw dropping. You don't know me at ALL, and yet you assume that I'm a critical parent who can never be pleased, and who always finds fault with everything she does. And my son does not come home for Thanksgiving but will fly to see friends as he doesn't much care for me, either.

Two days later, I'm still utterly stunned that ANYONE would make such comments without knowing the person at all, or the circumstances of their children's lives.

I am NOT a critical parent! I had one, didn't like it much and have made sure I never did the same. Both my children have made me very proud over the years, both in their careers and how they live their lives, how they keep a home, how they cook, and how they raise their children. Both do it all exceptionally well and I praise them for it all the time.

Not that it's any of your business, but my son does not come home for Thanksgiving as he lives in CT and I live in KY and he share the holiday with his ex-wife. There simply is not time to come here when he gets them late Friday. I understand it completely. It's only been since he's divorced that we see him at Christmas - wife didn't like our family even though we tried very hard to make her feel welcome. I'm just lucky that he was able to come to this nice little "mini-reunion" (he didn't attend his 30th - son had a water polo tournament that weekend) on a weekend when he did not have the children and when there was not an out-of-town water polo tournament.

BTY - for all of you who think I "force" my children into formal attire and that I should "move with the times". Today, his group of 30 are going to Keeneland to the races and it's a coat and tie event. Tonight, they are having a black tie dinner at his local friend's club. They chose to dress up to celebrate now being middle aged. No one asked me. And apparently, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

Angio, I am glad you took a few days to respond. Maybe you are thinking about your families relationships and Thanksgiving. Angio you and I are lucky. Our children are here on earth to celebrate Thanksgiving with us. There is plenty of mothers who aren't so lucky. Mothers who children died or mothers who children are in the service in the middle east, who don't know if their child is even safe and uninjured .

Friday we were at the club as a wake was breaking up in the banquet hall. The wake was for an adult child. It wasn't the mothers first child she lost, but her second child. She will never be able to spend Thanksgiving with her two babies ever again. You never know what curve ball life is going to throw at you. I bet those mothers would give anything to be able to spend Thanksgiving with their child. They wouldn't care if they were having Thanksgiving in a bowling alley eating turkey burgers and greasy fries off of paper plates, as long as they could spend it with their children. They wouldn't even think twice of spending the day alone just because it wasn't up to their "standards".

Fortunately I am still able to prepare Thanksgiving for my family. Most adult children are stressed between family and work expectations, mine are no different and am thankful that I can lessen my children's stress and host the meal. But I know there will come a time soon that I will not be able to and will pass the task over to my son or daughter. It will be their rodeo then not mine, to choose to celebrate it anyway they would like to fit their lifestyle. I almost lost my son this year to a medical condition and I am also a mother who could care what we eat or where we eat Thanksgiving dinner just as long as I can spend it with them.

functionthenlook, my oldest daughter drowned in our swimming pool when she was 15, I had walked out to the mailbox to get the paper. Her 9 year old sister pulled her up from the bottom, and then yelled for help. I hauled her out of the pool and gave her CPR until the EMT's arrived and resuscitated her. There is nothing quite like the feeling of seeing your child lifeless on the ground in front of you.

I spent the next 6 months sleeping in the middle of my big bed, with a girl on each side of me and a hand on each one and it was weeks before I didn't wake up in a panic several times a night and make sure they were both breathing.

I'm grateful every single day that she's still here to celebrate any of the holidays, and I make it as simple as possible for my children and grandchildren to spend time with me, as I know how fortunate I am to have them at all.

My younger sister has already passed away, as has my father, and my Mother is 84, so her holidays are limited. My youngest daughter had a stroke at age 27, and ensuing surgeries included heart repair for a defect we didn't even know she had. Each event causes some kind of change. The Princess is 16 and will soon have her own adult life, and things will change again. Life is precarious and any kind of holiday with family is fine by me.

Annie

Annie, how awful and I'm sure you still get the chills when you think about it.

Apologies for the abrupt topic shift, but do any of you eat salad at Thanksgiving? I don't normally serve it, but a kale salad with cider vinaigrette and cornbread croutons has caught my eye. I don't want to make it if it won't be eaten though as salad doesn't really keep. Hmmmm.

If you have leftovers, package them up and mail them to me. That combination of ingredients sounds delicious. And yes, I always make some sort of salad for Thanksgiving

Thanks, M. I'm hoping since kale is heartier, it will last a few days. I can keep the croutons on the side.

Here's the recipe if you're interested. I haven't made it yet but I use her recipes all the time and they are always delicious!

https://everydayannie.com/2017/11/21/kale-salad-cornbread-croutons/

I usually don't make a salad. There is just so much other food. I do make cream cheese stuffed celery. What doesn't get eaten can lasts for days, but in my house it usually gets eaten the next day. .

I make salad with endive, watercress and thinly sliced granny smith apples. It's a favorite with my family, and a nice refreshing taste after the more starch laden part of the meal.

We always have either crudités or a green salad. Sometimes both. We always have a lot of vegetables, especially at a harvest meal.

I've found that a dressed salad will often stay edible overnight, occasionally over two nights, if put loosely in a container. Plastic bags are death to salads, as is a tightly packed container. While air is usually what you're trying to get rid of to preserve freshness, with salad it's the opposite. In a container, no more than 3/4 full, you have a fighting chance, at least until lunch time.

New term for me - what's a harvest meal?

Geez, Amylou, your in-law story reminds me of last Christmas. My son flew home for about 7 days. He flew into Cincinnati because it's cheaper than flying into Lexington. My daughter came to my house to help with fixing dinner, but was late so I told her to just go on without me to pick him up at the airport, which was 2 1/2 hours away. They didn't get to my house until sometime after 9 pm. We're eating late when their step mother starts texting my daughter, "where are you guys?" "We're waiting on you". Ummm, my son told his father he would see them at the end of the week because he was getting in so late on Christmas night!!! Poor guy woke up around 4 am in California, flew all day, and they really expected him to then drive to their house over an hour away from mine?! She continued to text my daughter (not my son) all through our Christmas dinner. Saying how depressed and disappointed their father was that they hadn't come over.

And every year at Thanksgiving and Christmas they always pick their dinner on the same day I have mine. I usually never have our dinner at my house on the holiday. Trying to avoid the same day as them. Doesn't ever matter because even when I pick a week before or after, guess what day they pick? So, my kids eat at my house and then have to rush to their father's every single year or nearly.

Kath,

We have some outlaws like that. We chose to avoid them and all they do.

Life is good.

Chi, I have also never served a salad at Thanksgiving. However, am seriously thinking about serving one this year to along with the meal if anyone wants it.

I do serve a salad, usually Woodie's 7 layer salad or Mustang's Fig, Proscuitto and Arugula salad, although I use baby spinach because I'm not a fan of Arugula. If you'd like the recipe, it's amazing, and my family never leaves any leftovers, but it's pretty substantial, with parmesan and proscuitto and a fig balsamic dressing.

Annie

I have never served salad at Thanksgiving just because i know in my family it would not get eaten. My mother always insists on a raw veggie tray to stare at at every party. It just sits there looking sad and unloved, as indeed it is.

I welcome a heavy, unhealthy, fat and starch laden meal on the holidays. Even the veggies i do serve are unhealthy. Besides the sweet corn casserole my sister is bringing, I will be making my bacon and onion green beans, cooked in buttery chicken stock. And someone requested creamed yellow beans. I might do my loaded cauliflower which is full of fat and dairy and bacon or my broccoli casserole which is not much better, health wise. I never take leftovers so I can worry about light eating the day after....:)

But the only way to know if it would get eaten is to serve it and see what happens!!!

I think I am going to try it! A fresh salad sounds nice, especially since some of my other veggie dishes are rich. I'm making whisky glazed carrots, corn casserole, cauliflower cheese, garlic and butter roasted mushrooms, turnips gratin, baked spinach, green beans gremolata, roasted root veggies with herbs and balsamic Brussels sprouts.

Hmm maybe it's time to cut the menu a bit. I always make too much!

I always serve a green salad, typically with baby kale and spinach, tangerine segments, pomegranate seeds, toasted pecans, and other veggies. It's always popular! I'm taking a serious look at the apple cider vinaigrette that Chi posted.

Annie, I think I can figure it out from that list of ingredients. But if you have a full list including suggested dressing (maybe, honey balsamic vinaigrette?), or a link to a recipe, then please let me know. That sounds like a salad I could see serving one of the next weeks.

Yowza, Chi - that's a lot of veggies!! But they all sound delicious and I would want to try some of each, not leaving much room for the star attraction :-(

In addition to the mashed potatoes, we have one green veggie and one orange veggie. If I was cooking, I'd include creamed onions too.

Sometimes we have salad, sometimes not. My nephew, who is often the chef, favors a Brussel sprout and bacon salad.....not my favorite.

@ annie1992: Would you please post the recipe for Mustang's Fig, Proscuitto and Arugula salad you mentioned. That sounds like a salad I could eat only that and a nice piece of French, Artisan, or Italian bread for a great weeknight dinner.

We often have a citrus and avocado salad plated on butter lettuce and drizzled with a home made vinegret.

WalnutCreek and M, here is that salad recipe. It's wonderful, and if there were any leftovers my girls would fight over them.

Arugula Salad with Figs, Prosciutto, Walnuts, and Parmesan

4 tbls olive oil

2 oz thinly sliced prosciutto cut into strips

1 tbls raspberry jam

3 tbls fig balsamic vinegar

1/3 cup dried figs, chopped into 1/4 inch pieces

1 tbls finely chopped shallot

5 cups baby arugula

1/2 cup chopped walnuts, toasted

2 oz Parmesan, shaved into thin strips

1. Heat 1 tablespoon oil in 10 inch nonstick skillet over medium heat; add prosciutto and fry until crisp, stirring frequently for about 7 minutes. Using slotted spoon, transfer to paper towel to drain and cool.
2. Whisk jam and vinegar in medium microwave-safe bowl; stir in figs. Cover with plastic wrap, cut several steam vents in plastic and microwave on high until figs are plump, about 45 seconds. Whisk in 3 tablespoons oil, shallots, 1/4 tsp salt; toss to combine. Let cool to room temperature.
3. Toss arugula and vinaigrette in large bowl; adjust seasonings with salt. Divide salad among individual plates; top with portion of prosciutto, walnuts, and Parmesan.

I couldn't find arugula here, so I used baby spinach and it was very nice, now I use tht all the time. I didn't have shallots, so I left them out, it's good either way, and sometimes I use pecans, but walnuts are better.

Thanks again, Cathy, for a great recipe, if you are out there somewhere lurking...

Annie

Prosciutto 'bacon'. We make its all the time. PLT's. DH likes it better than bacon sometimes. We parchment line a sheet pan and bake it or broil. Our broiler Is fast so baking has a bit more control. Watch it like a hawk as it gets crisp quickly. less fat but salty. One thin slice each is just enough salty/bacon flavor for an AvocadoPLT. Excellent salad recipe Annie. Perfect for a rich meal. We use toasted pecans and finish/garnish with fresh pomegranate seed to the table. Also an excellent garnish for a winter soup. Crumbled.

My Thanksgiving salad dressing uses a Tbsp of my cranberry relish made the day before. Basic vinaigrette but with the added cranberry.

annie1992, thank you so much for the recipe. It sounds even more delicious now that I have read the ingredients. The only thing I don't have is fig balsamic vinegar; in fact I don't recall ever having seen it, so I might have to try to find an alternative.

I wonder how it would be without the prosciutto.

WalnutCreek, I just looked it up and Amazon carries it.

Annie1992 - I have made that salad and we loved it!

Thanks for that info, ediej1209. I order a lot from Amazon, but have never ordered any kind of foodstuff. Will definitely look it up on Amazon.

I would just chop some figs and cover with regular balsamic, let it sit for a while in the refer and then drain off the figs...voila! Fig balsamic without the expense AND pickled figs.

WalnutCreek, I did buy fig balsamic eventually, but I had some raspberry balsamic and I used that and one year I used just plain balsamic vinegar because it's all I had. The flavors do add an "intensity" to the dressing, but just plain old balsamic is good too.

Annie