Strawberryhill... I just looked at the REFERENCES on HMF for 'Alec's Red' to see where we got the zone information for the rose page. It appears we updated the rose page due to a COMMENT from a site user. Then, since I knew that Botanica's Roses gives zone information and I had the book and it was used as one of the REFRENCES for the rose, I decided to look it up. Botanica's says that Alec's Red will grow in zones 4 - 9. I have found over the years that I have worked on the HMF site, that REFERECES often have conflicting information. We do try to make a NOTE on the rose page when this happens, but when the site was young, there wasn't a field for NOTES. So .... I can't say there are no errors in HMF... site users are kind enough to draw them to our attention and I've made more than a few corrections, but I think the accuracy of any book or website depends on where the author got the information they have published about the rose. I can't imagine that they have grown each rose in their gardens. As for thorniness... some roses want it both ways. Here's a photo of the thorns on 'Tamora' grown in Holland. You can click on the rose name and the MEMBER COMMENTS and see the discussion about thorns on this rose. Smiles, Lyn Here is a link that might be useful: Thorns on Tamora photo

I order from ARE and Chamblees. I have not ordered from CHamblees for a few years since I have found what I want at ARE. I am glad your Reines de Violettes is doing well. Mine is struggling, yet many of my roses are not thriving this year. I cannot blame our weather, and my neglect on the nursery. Many people go to one of these nurseries from our area, and purchase the roses directly. I do believe that the plants that they can purchase in person are much larger than what they ship. Sammy

It's helpful to know I'm in good company! I've never seen anything like this rust outbreak in my garden. And nothing will move a rose out of my garden faster than Cheeto leaves! My RdR is mature, maybe close to 15 years in my garden. It's one of the first roses I planted and has always been super clean, but now it's super icky. I hope I managed to strip all the fungus. At least rust is a helpful shade of neon orange. Hard to miss! I even found some speckles on Tradescant and The Prince as well as Tamora! The weirdest discovery is what I DIDN'T find: rust on Abraham Darby. He rusted earlier (as always), and I stripped the infected leaves as the fungus presented itself. But now, smack in the middle of the big epidemic, AD only has his usual defoliating blackspot. Really?! Locals drive around with bumper stickers that say "Keep Portland Weird." My garden is sure doing its part. Carol

Below is what I notice in my garden of 150+ fragrant own root roses: 1) Own roots that can take high humidity with healthy leaves in my rooting bin, even with constant condensation (water) on leaves & stems. These can take extreme humidity yet have 100% healthy leaves, even with poor drainage if the soil is NOT acidic. Evelyn, W.S. 2000, Mary Magdalene, Christopher Marlowe, Pat Austin, Queen of Sweden, James Galway, Dee-lish, the Dark Lady, Spirit of Freedom, Tchaikovsky, Purple Lodge. 2) Own roots with healthy leaves with humidity, if the drainage is fast, plus liming on top to neutralize acidic rain: Abraham Darby, Crown princess Magareta, Tess of d'Ubervilles, A Shopshire Lad, Radio times, Well Being, Augusta Luis, Sonia Rykiel, Yves Piaget child. 3) Own roots that blackspots with high humidity despite fast draining or liming, and need constant potassium fertilizer to stay healthy: Golden Celebration, Carding Mill, the Squire, Gertrude Jekyll, St. Cecilia, Firefighter, Comte de Chambord. 4) Own roots with THICK LEAVES which rabbits don't eat: Evelyn leaves are thicker than Abe. Tchaikosky leaves are thick like Augusta Luis, Christopher Malowe leaves are thick like James Galway and Purple Lodge. Crown Princess Mag, Strike it Rich and About Face have thicker leaves than Cading Mill. Never see blackspots on Chris, Evelyn, Tchaikosky nor James Galway. 5) Own roots with THIN LEAVES which rabbits devour: Abe. Darby, Munstead Wood, W.S. 2000, Sonia Rykiel, Well Being Golden Cel., Firefighter, Boscobel, and Comte de Chambord. The above are my observation with own-roots in my garden plus rootings in humid bins of Evelyn, Dee-lish, W.S. 2000, Spirit of Freedom, Christopher Marlowe, The Dark Lady, The Squire, Augusta Luis, James Galway, Mary Magdalene, Abraham Darby, Sonia Rykiel, Dee-lish, Golden Celebration, Gertrude Jekyll, Radio Times, Pat Austin, Well Being, Tchaikovsky, Crown Princess Mag., Purple Lodge, thornless Yves Piaget child. *** Princess Anne is touted as very healthy, but as its roots mature in its 5th-year, it's prone to blackspots in my poor drainage clay. Some Austins have chunky & woody root that rot fast in standing acidic rain water like Princess Anne. Some own-root starts out as healthy cluster roots, then matures to chunky & woody (like Dr.Huey-rootstock) and become more Blackspot-prone in later years like Princess Anne. Other Austins like W.S. 2000 have cluster-root (similar to multiflora) that does not rot in acidic rain, thus zero blackspots even as 12th-year-own-root. Leaves of W.S. 2000 and Evelyn have NO blackspots in high humidity rooting bin. Evelyn can take high rain and poor drainage clay better than Abraham Darby (best bloomer for hot & dry and alkaline climate). A Abe. Darby & Sonia Rykiel & Well-Being need a higher pH and all 3 bloom well with my alkaline tap water at pH 9, thus best for hot & dry climate. Below are pics. of W.S. 2000 being healthy, it's right next to the rainspout dumping tons of acidic rain at pH 4.5, note the pale leaves: Below pic. of Evely was taken July 24, after week-long rain, I never see blackspots on it in its 12 years as own-root, if biochar at pH 8.6 is given before a rainy month. Note Evelyn's paler leaves than Abe. Darby: