https://youtu.be/3wt3Cy4JgnU

for moving heavy pot plants

Boy do I need that, I maybe Carol too.

Yikkes!! I just saw the price

Vivienne, I hope I never have to move anything like that tree!! But, what a great invention. For someone who's handy, it looks like that could be made from an old push mower.

Helen, your Quicksilver is beautiful. My first one died in a late spring freeze; very unexpected because it was big and healthy. My second one is only 2 yrs old. I hope it gets as big and beautiful as yours. I would not have thought to grow it in a pot. You are right - roses are tough and can adapt.

I have to agree with the original post. The craze about DA roses seems misplaced to me. I have about 9 rose bushes but only 2 DA roses- golden celebration and our lady of Shallot. Beautiful roses but do not last on the shrub or the vase. Prone to BS here in NJ too. I have some Kordes, floribundas and hybrid teas with better form, lasting power, color and fragrance, reblooming, vase life and clean foliage. I was eyeing JC and Boscobel, and I guess I'll stop with my fascination with this variety. I also dislike that the stems are so limp and they nod. They look miserable after a storm. Thanks for all those who contributed to this thread!

I'm glad we have a plethora of alternatives. I'll probably always have some older Austins from their golden years, but there are so many beautiful non-Austin alternatives: Kordes, Meilland, Delbard, Guillot, Barni, even the OGRs he was seeking to replicate. Now if only someone at Tantau would realize the potential market here in the US and expand!

I agree that there are many great rose hybridizers/breeders to choose from. I've been enjoying Kordes and Meilland roses just as much as Austin roses. And yes, many OGR cant be beat! (And are among my favorites)

@Manisha Gurumurthy I do think Boscobel is one of my best roses. Lovely complex fragrance (strong/moderate), great sized and gorgeous cupped and old fashioned looking bloom, beautiful color (apricot in the center of a deep salmon pink when it first opens), it lasts long on the bush and about 5 days in the vase and the bush shape is nice (fully leafed and no sprawling wannabe climber canes). Upright blooms that dont nod.Constant rebloom in just its 2nd year and healthy in my garden.

Oh my goodness, Boscobel is fabulous!

Still kick myself for taking out own-root Boscobel and bought Princess Ann 4 years ago instead just because someone reported zero scent on Boscobel. I can't cut Princess Ann for the vase, too prickly & doesn't last long, and not much scent either.

I only have one DA - Olivia Rose and don't plan to get any more.

IT IS an overall good rose (I think it was my healthiest this year and most resistant to BS) but in its second year, the stems are still thin and can barely support the blooms, which nod to the point you can't see them.

Otherwise, I can tell from pictures most DA-s look kind of the same. I am good with just Olivia.

I will always have more Austins because they do better in my conditions. There are others, but Austins are always the most reliable. I don't plant Austins because of a craze, but because of their hardiness, vitality, health and beauty. I stick with what works. I want the most bang for my buck and the most disease resistant and vigorous roses I can find so I don't have to spray, pamper, coddle or winter protect. When I plant a Kordes rose, for instance, I know it's a gamble. Some survive, most don't. As for form, I prefer relaxed shrub roses over elegant upright hybrid teas, although I have a few that I love. Shrub roses fit the relaxed style of my country garden. The beauty of growing roses is that there is something for everyone's taste and everyone's climate and conditions. There are Austins with upright growth. Alnwick, Ambridge Rose, Queen of Sweden and James L. Austin are some.

Can I ask about how upright Ambridge is? I'm thinking to go front of the border with it and don't want to be making a (nother) mistake.

She's very upright, Aaron. There are no wandering canes and her blooms are all held facing upward on strong stems. If I remember, I don't think she started off that way, but I've had her a long time. I don't have any whole bush shots. She's taller than Tamora, but still on the shorter side, about 3 1/2'. Mine is an excellent bloomer, with a rest between flushes. I didn't get any pics of her this year, but here's a couple old ones. I love her perfectly round buds.

3.5 feet seems tolerable--I had Francis Meilland right in front, and I'm planning to put Ambridge where FM was. Francis is now in the back of the border, flanking Tchaikovski :) thanks for your guidance!

Flowers & anyone: How's the vase life of Ambridge, and how do you like its scent. Thanks for any info. Your pic. is perfect !!

Now that’s the look of Austin roses that i love. I wouldn’t mind if they produced more of the same type, with better bush form, disease resistance, repeat and vigor. And of course fragrance.

Straw, I have never cut Ambridge for the house. I think she's about average on the bush. I've never thought about her as blowing too fast. Sorry I'm not more help.

Nose, you only want it all. I had to laugh. We all do!

Well, of course! :-) The meaning of my comment was in regards to previous comments that said that they are bored with David Austin roses, that they all look the same, or something like that. Personally, I don't think their recent releases look like the older ones at all. I don't like the current direction of their breeding. Their latest roses don't have the same magic for me as the older ones (beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all). I'd be happy if they kept breeding roses that looked the same, even the slightly hanging quality of the blooms. They could work on improving the plants in more ways than just the appearance of a flower in a photo. It's always a goal, never achieved. So why not work more in that direction? If, for example, they bred a rose that looked exactly the same as Abraham Darby, but was easier to grow, more disease resistant (i.e. rust resistant for those in climates that get it), and even more fragrance, I'd snap it up as soon as I could, even though it looked exactly the same. Or even because it looked exactly the same.

@bayarea_girl_z10a_ca,

Helen,

Is the first picture of your Quick Silver from the time it was in a pot and you were not giving it all that much attention because of the job, only some Osmocote Plus?

Because if yes, oh Lord, then I am doing something very wrong, or very... 'not enough' with my pots.

That Quicksilver in pic 1 is absolutely gorgeous. I could only dream of getting so many blooms at one time, especially in a pot, with minimum attention and Osmocote Plus only.

Novice, you are correct. It was in a pot because I was too busy to find a good spot in the ground for a climber. Helen

@librarian_gardner_8b_pnw thanks for the input on Boscobel. I'll give it a serious consideration next spring. Btw, what's OGR? I need to look into those.

@Manisha Gurumurthy here is a simple article explaining https://www.finegardening.com/article/what-is-an-old-garden-rose

My 2 favorite roses are Austi s s would replace them both should we move.

kristine_legault's ideas · More Info

Munstead wood

kristine_legault's ideas · More Info

It never stops blooming those big perfect fragrant blooms.

kristine_legault's ideas · More Info

kristine_legault's ideas · More Info

Olivia Austin, perfect rose with no disease or thrips

Kristine,

My OR still got BS by September, but I would say she was indeed the most resistant of all.

Does yours nod?

Mine grew some very long, spindly stems that fall to the sides, and they absolutely cannot hold the bloom.

In some ways, a great rose. In other ways, not at all. At least for me.

She also seems to have very short vase life and loses those petals in a jiffy.

Back to the main topic, I'm 100% with you, Seil. I'm tired of being their guinea pig for regional performance. They don't test any of their new introductions for performance in the many regions of the US. They just hype them to the hilt and expect you to take up valuable garden space for a few years...only to find you've got a dud. Have you noticed Austin roses are rarely touted as winners in any of the International Trials? That says a lot right there.

Severe, OAR doesnt nod

Her canes are pretty stout

Maybe mine really wants some lime. I can see how calcium would make them grow sturdier and stronger. I just gave it 2 tablespoons mixed with some Osmocote. Here I can fertilize them into October. They're fine either way.

Mischievous Magpie....thanks for expanding OGR. Yes, I know what those are just didn't know they went by the abbreviated form!

Noseometer, 100% agree!

Although my #1 favorite rose is a Poulsen rose (Astrid Lindgren), my #2 favorite for 25 years has been an Austin rose, The Reeve, incredibly fragrant with a peony-like bloom in a haunting, deep, lavender-pink hue.
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In my garden, Graham Thomas has been a workhorse, sending up tall canes loaded with sturdy, upright blooms. And Dream Weaver, a Zary rose from J&P, is so prolific and robust that I bought a second one in 2000 after the first one dazzled with lush productivity in warm coral pink.
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Then, the last 6 years, my new darling is Florentina, a Kordes rose that blooms magnificently in a shady area. Her scarlet blooms are so full and heavy they nod down, and I adore that rose.
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No, I’m not “over” Austin roses. Last year I added Lady of Shallot, who’s vibrantly tangerine & neon yellow in my Z6 garden. Heritage is so dear to my heart I ordered a second one to arrive soon. But I cancelled the order for super-fragrant, orange, gaudy Lady Emma after she was recently reclassified from a zone 5-9 rose to a zone 7-11 rose. (sigh)
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I have had weak performers from Kordes as well as Austin: for example, Honeymoon Arborose and Jude the Obscure are equally lackluster and puny after 3 years.
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If I’m over anything, it’s Hybrid Tea Roses. (My local rose club, all competitors, would be shocked; don’t tell them I said that!) They’re stingy bloomers, with scent often irrelevant as the breeders vied for perfect blooms in new colors, stripes, and gimmicky novelties. And the HTs have the highest mortality rate in my garden, by far. Nonetheless, I hang on devotedly to Apricot Nectar, Apricots & Cream, and a few others, while planting more and more floribundas, climbers, and shrub roses that pour out torrents of blooms. So far, the Austins remain a beloved part of my rose family. (YMMV)

I love the Austins that I have but haven't seen anything new that is different enough from what I already have.

Munstead Wood is my favorite rose for color and fragrance.

Desdamona blooms her head off and Lady of Shallot is beautiful and healthy.

I also have and love Olivia Austin and Charles Renne Macintosh, both trouble free and beautiful.

But there are so many wonderful new roses out there that unless Austin comes out with something unique I am probably done.

Kristine, Gabriel Oak is becomy o ne of favorites. Wonderful fragrance, beautiful color (especially in person) and lots of blooms. Way more impressive than aEuastacia V. ye in person. I like Gabe more than Young Lycidas.

OO

I agree with you about some of the other new Austins. I'm not inspired by many of them.

Fact: I still have my 23 year old plant of 'Tiffany', which performs beautifully and rarely suffers from disease, but of the 15 Austin roses I planted within the last 20 years, the only ones I still have are 'Othello' (which survives solely because it is in the greenhouse, where it doesn't get Blackspot) and 'A Shropshire Lad', which persists in spite of the constant Blackspot it cultivates. All of the rest of the Austin's died from chronic Blackspot infection.

Librarian, I do love the color of Gabriel Oak. I had Young Lycidis and loved the blooms but it's growth habit was just a mess

How tall does it get?

I like Young Lycidas a lot, though if needs a little support from its neighbors. The lax growth habit fits in well where he grows with an old fashioned look to the habit. I love your Gabriel, Librarian--is it own root or grafted? Edwards is selling it only as own root, as all their Austins this year. I prefer grafted. The color of Lycidas and Gabriel seems to be pretty similar, though YL changes color a lot, depending on our heat. I have quite a few Austins, all grafted, that are starting their 19th year and doing very well. I have also had weak performances of Kordes roses, and lost my last Kordes (a florist rose, Caramel Antique) to a gopher in December. I'm very unhappy about that. As far as being over any kind of rose, that's not me. I'll always be open to growing roses from a variety of hybridizers. Diane

YL, plus the lighter rose, Angel Face

YL and AF again

YL mixing it up with neighbors

armarm Darn lost a post.

I don't know if my Gabe is own root or grafted I'll have to look. growth habit is a lanky, a little like a hybrid perpetual but it's canes bend and peg easy. It fills with blooms.

With pegging, e Gabe probably takes up 4x4. ItI I didn't prune tprune much he first year, I cchose to peg.

😑 Gremlins

It's not as purple as Young Lycidas but in a humid environment, Gabe is healthy and all blooms open. YL gets some BS and balls a here although I lovelove it. too.

Diane, ther color of Young Lycidis is my favorite. It is one that I regret moving.

YL is lovely, "easy", and blooms a lot. GO was a clunker for me: few blooms, canes died. A friend had better luck in a warmer climate or maybe mine had an issue independent of the variety. I had a similar experience with the person who started the chat: Jubilee Celebration had an amazing fragrance, but I had it over 10 years, and it was always sort of scraggly and produced only a few precious (but amazing blooms). Spirit of Freedom, in my climate, even though it was in full sun, only really had one strong flush in the spring and the few flowers it had sort of "balled" or rotted off. I think that the problem is that many DA roses would seem to only be repeat bloomers in a broad sense of the term and are not continuous bloomers, which can be disappointing. Many I have had are far from being the prolific bloomers of my Marie Pavie (not a DA rose), for example, that just never stopped until December. In Europe/UK, DA seemed to have culled a lot of the most interesting DA varieties en masse rather recently, including (if I am not mistaken): Munstead Wood, Darcey Bussell, Jude the Obscure, Abraham Darby, Lady Emma, The Prince, Darcey Bussell, Brother Cadfael, The Dark Lady, Graham Thomas, Othello, Crown Princess Margareta, Crocus Rose, Teasing Georgia, Tess de l'Ubervilles, Benjamin Britten, A Shropshire Lad, Heritage, Heathcliff, Sharifa Asma, William Shakespeare 2000, William Morris, Perdita, Radio Times, Pat Austin, Evelyn (with which so many people seme to be in love), Tea Clipper, The Alnwick Rose, Sir Walter Scott... I have no idea if this strategy will extend to the US. The newer ones they would seem to be putting foward now are lovely but to me, but many seem to lack the "va-va-voom" or "wow" factor of some of the older varieties, in terms of either scent, unusual flower shape, and/or color. So many people are in love with so many of these varieties, it seems strange that they have been culled in this fashion...One thinks of the laws of supply and demand, but maybe something new and exciting is on its way?

Munstead Wood is still for sale in the US and is still under patent. Golden Celebration is still for sale. The Prince hasn't been sold in ages here. Munstead Wood is currently my favorite Austin--I have two, which bloom for months on end in heat and cold. It's an outstanding rose for me. Anyway, several more on your list on still for sale here locally in pots straight from Austin with appropriate tags--5 gallon plants. But they are all own root, which I've mentioned before, seems to hint that they are trying to clear out their virused rootstock. I know some of these roses do better here as grafted roses.The only new Austin I'm excited about is Bring Me Sunshine, and I have no idea if it will ever be sold in the US.

Kristine, I'm a little late, but thanks about Young Lycidas. Did yours survive the move? Diane

Librarian -- do you also grow James L. Austin? I have both G.O. and JLA -- and I think the JLA bloom is slightly better/bigger than GO, but JLA is not fragrant, and GO is. My original GO the first year it was available came mail order direct from DA in the USA. It struggled and nearly died. But, that year it was terrible covid time, and Texas had massive flooding, so I thought maybe the DA folks just got not great bare roots out that year (I had also ordered Eustacia Vye & Heritage). All three were poor specimens. Their supposed #1 grade bare roots looked smaller and more straggly than the 1 gallons I get from Heirloom! Finally, this last fall, I saw a Gabriel Oak at Otto & Sons Nursery, and it was GORGEOUS. Just amazing. So I bought that one. I came right home and asked DA for 3 replacement roses for the 2 that were barely surviving (GO & EV) and the one that had just died (Heritage). They asked for photos, which I gladly sent. And they honored the 5-year warranty pledge and I have 3 roses coming soon. Another EV & Heritage. But since I'd just bought a GO, I opted for Mill on the Floss instead. All this to say -- my own GO was not impressive, but the new one is (it's thriving and only been in the ground since October). But this year James really came into his own and stood up to our crazy weather like it was nothing. If only he was fragrant!

In other DA news -- I now have two Jude the Obscures b/c when my good friend moved to Portland, she gave me her very new Jude, and then last year I took a cutting to see if I could grow my own rose, and voila! I just planted my new Jude from a cutting yesterday! He's in a bit of a shady spot that may compete with oaks -- so we'll see how he does. My other Austins that do well are Poet's Wife and Munstead Wood. I gave away my Olivia and my Carding Mill. Stingy bloomers, both. I have own-root Golden Celebration & Teasing Georgia -- still waiting for those to grow up.

My new find last year -- a purchase on a whim -- Strawberry Hill. Boy did that rose take off and perform. I can't wait to see what she does this year!

I guess I'm with Diane -- I'm not swearing off a breeder (though I have stopped buying Kordes, as they just don't do well for me) -- always open. I do find, however, that the French-bred roses seem to do best in my garden. Maybe it's about soil chemistry. The German ones -- not so much.

Deborah, some of the bare roots I got from DA in 2021 were tiny and not great, either. I thought the same things as you. Luckily, the two that were small and sad took off in the 2nd year. I don't grow James L Austin but I've heard others compare them in the same way as you. I like fragrance too much sosososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososo

So I decided to just try GO. And I'm glad I did, he's aa becoming a favorite. Houzz gremlins are at v again.

I'm glad aa DA replaced yours. If mine hadn't shaped up last yearyear, I'd be in the same position as you.

Deborah I'm jealous to read that your Strawberry Hill took off and is doing great. I've had mine for 2 seasons so far and it seems to hate my yard (or at least the spot it's in). It's alive but it barely grows and blooms, which is such a shame because I really like the fragrance. I should try to move it maybe.

Magpie -- mine was in a big half barrel with rose grow potting mix. I just moved it to a spot in the ground. Let's hope I didn't jinx it!

I agree with Diane! Munstead Wood is the bee's knees! Simply the best!

I remember Hong Ton's video where he compared James to Gabriel. He thought that James had larger blooms than Gabriel and he preferred James but because Gabriel Oak has fragrance that he would have to go with Gabriel.

I am wondering if Gabriel Oak is different enough from Munstead wood that I need that one?

Kristine I think Munstead and Gabriel are very different!

If you though last season's plants were small, wait until you see this year's runts they are sending out....at outrageous prices.

Munstead Wood is a very dark red rose that smells amazing! Can even be sort of a blackish read in certain weather. GO is brighter, more vibrant, pinkish...

@hugogurll I'm sure I've seen talk on here recently about DA switching over to mostly own-root roses for this year, could it be that they seem smaller because they're own root plants, as opposed to grafted onto those chunky Dr. Huey roots we're all used to seeing?

Although I'll agree that the bareroots I received from DA two years ago were smaller than I'd expected, but the only other bareroots I'd ever bought were from Home Depot so I don't have a lot to compare to.

I think @strawchicago z5 has mentioned DA grafted roses possibly having RMV. I think my Rose Marie had it; it appears to be an issue with grafted roses but she can probably clarify (or point out that I’m misremembering).