"An oldie but a goody"

haydayhayday
SaveComment82Like3
Comments (82)
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Should we hit the rich with taxes? You bet!


That is the heading of an article in a local paper here today. Published in the New York Times, Author Nicholas Kristof


I’m not going to type the content. Too much for my one finger style….

But really, you should find a better description than Socialist for the lady of your dreams.

The probable ironic result if the poor are lifted out of poverty, is that the rich will get even richer.

Trickle up giving a better result than Trickle down!

9 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Chi

The wealthy sure have brainwashed many people. Instead of focusing on why billionaires pay no taxes, they have turned attention to people like AOC and call them Socialists. Meanwhile the lower and middle classes bicker amongst themselves about their taxes and who wants to do what with them, while the rich keep getting richer. It's pretty brilliant.

12 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
HU9999

There's an election on the horizon. There will be screams of SOCIALISM!!!! from now until November. Nothing new. When fear tactics is all they have, it's what they use.

6 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

Instead of focusing on why billionaires pay no taxes

Are you stating that all billionaires pay no taxes? If so, I believe that you are in error. Please cite the sources to back up your statement.

Full disclosure: I am not a billionaire.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
queenmargo

But Elvis, have you ever had a picture with a billionaire?

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Mrs Pete

I am also not a billionaire, but I think this argument all comes down to the fact that the general public is rather math-ignorant. LOTS of people fail to understand the difference between dollars and percentages.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Chi

"Are you stating that all billionaires pay no taxes? If so, I believe that you are in error. Please cite the sources to back up your statement."

I did not say that all billionaires pay no taxes. Trump is a self-reported billionaire who has had many years where he didn't pay taxes. In 2016 he also said he was smart to not pay taxes. He is one of the "billionaires" that I was referring to. And if he can work the laws to avoid taxes, it's safe to assume others can as well.

And for the ones who do pay some taxes, I don't believe they pay anywhere close to the percentages that the middle class pays.

7 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ubro(2a)

Ah yes, let's float the false idea that all countries with socialist programs are 'forced'.

Geez Louise, once again, those that know nothing about how well countries with social programs function spend their time creating fear rather than offering an informative opinion.

The right spends it's time going to the extreme socialist views to paint the picture of the big bad spectre of a socialist govt. No grey areas allowed, nope, it's either Oppression or Freedom, give me a break.


Consider the pros and cons of other countries. Investigate what possibly could work within your political structure and build on that. Blindly thinking the the only way is the US capatialist way is just plain silly, your Free Market has left the poor and those with medical conditions hanging.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

"Voluntary cooperation" view of capitalism got us the filthy rivers, nearly extinct Bald Eagle, Love Canal, and dirty air of the 60s and 70s, etc.

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Or, theocracy.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
HU9999

Here's the real "oldie but goodie": I do not want one cent of my money helping anyone but me. Most especially if I consider the person being helped to be below me.

I have litte patience for empathy lacking self centered individuals who have no desire to contribute to the society they belong to and benefit from.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

And for the ones who do pay some taxes, I don't believe they pay anywhere close to the percentages that the middle class pays.

I am not an economist, and I suspect that neither are you. This Forbes piece certainly explains it better than I can:

Economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman of the University of California at Berkeley have a new book that has generated an enormous amount of attention. One key conclusion: The richest 400 families in the US paid an average effective tax rate of 23 percent in 2018, while the bottom half of US households paid 24.2 percent of their income in taxes. For a geeky bit of tax data, their conclusion has produced a storm of tweets and some eye-popping headlines: “The Rich Really Do Pay Lower Taxes Than You” The New York Times, October 6, 2019 “For the first time in history, U.S. billionaires paid a lower tax rate than the working class last year” The Washington Post, October 8, 2019

But are the Berkeley profs right or is this just hype? The answer is by no means straightforward. It depends on what you are measuring and how you are doing it. And the choices Saez and Zucman have made were necessarily arbitrary and more than a little controversial.

That brings us to the first problem: There are no official tax data for 2018 (millions of people still are filing their returns). So Saez and Zucman built their analysis on older data and extrapolated to 2018. But because the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) fundamentally changed the individual and corporate income tax codes, that is no easy feat.

Then there is the matter of what they were measuring. While Saez and Zucman used an extremely broad definition of taxes, they left out refundable tax credits like the earned income tax credit (EITC) and the child tax credit (CTC). Thus, a worker with two children who received a refundable portion of their CTC of $2,800 (the maximum allowed) would look like they paid zero federal income tax when they really paid a negative tax. The $2,800 tax benefit would not appear in their distributional analysis, making this family’s total effective tax rate appear much higher than if the refundable credits were included (remember, lower-income households probably are paying payroll taxes and state and local taxes).

Zucman has argued elsewhere that the refundable portion of these tax credits really is spending and should be excluded from any tax analysis. There is no difference, he suggests, between the EITC and, say SNAP (food stamps).

How TPC does it

But there is a difference. The EITC and CTC are part of the federal income tax code. They are administered by the IRS. Yes, they feel in many ways like spending. But they were created to help offset the burden of payroll taxes and should be treated like taxes for the purposes of distributional analysis.

That’s how my colleagues at the Tax Policy Center do it. And TPC concludes that the lowest income 20 percent of households pays an effective federal tax rate of just 2.9 percent. The next 20 percent pays an effective federal rate of 7.6 percent. Overall, TPC finds that federal taxes are highly progressive, with effective federal tax rates ranging from 2.9 percent for the lowest income 20 percent to 30.6 percent for the top 0.1 percent (about 120,000 households).

...

Arguments about methodology shouldn’t mask Saez’s and Zucman’s bigger point: Incomes of the very rich are rising faster than for all other income groups. And the TCJA cut the taxes of high earners by more on average than for low- and moderate-income households, as a share of after-tax income. But that doesn’t mean that “billionaires paid a lower tax rate than the working class.”

For the full article with all details, click on the link, https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2019/10/11/are-us-billionaires-really-paying-a-lower-tax-rate-than-working-people-probably-not/#11f625a729ac

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Chi

"I am not an economist, and I suspect that neither are you. This Forbes piece certainly explains it better than I can"

I have a degree in economics from the University of Chicago. Thanks for the article - it was an interesting read but I am not convinced billionaires pay a higher or equal percentage than we do. I suppose it also depends on the definition of middle class.

In any case, I don't see any valid reason why billionaires shouldn't be on the top tax bracket for all income over ~500k. Our laws need revamping.

5 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
don_socal

If you're in trouble, or hurt or need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.
John Steinbeck

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/john-steinbeck-quotes

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/john-steinbeck

11 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

@Chi: Fair enough.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Well, this point is valuable:

Arguments about methodology shouldn’t mask Saez’s and Zucman’s bigger point: Incomes of the very rich are rising faster than for all other income groups. And the TCJA cut the taxes of high earners by more on average than for low- and moderate-income households, as a share of after-tax income. But that doesn’t mean that “billionaires paid a lower tax rate than the working class.”

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

And, which group has more flexibility in determining what their final 'taxble income'?

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Hay is impervious to any change in his understanding of Socialism.

The big difference between Socialism and unbridled Capitalism is not in how much tax you pay but in how you view the culture you live within or conversely without. When you value your society you naturally trend socialist and when you do not you get us. It leads to an Oligarch which isn't even good for oligarchs.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday





Hay

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Milton Friedman - can't find the date for that quote but he was big stuff in the 70s.

Laffer Curve - 1974-ish


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

donsocal:

If you're in trouble, or hurt or need - go to the poor people. They're the only ones that'll help - the only ones.
John Steinbeck

Perhaps.

But if you want to stay out of trouble, aren't hurt, and have a desire to provide your own needs, don't go to a poor person for a job.

Go to a capitalist. They're the only ones that'll help--the only ones.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Which Capitalist? They are like the rest of us, a few still have their first dollar.

Better still, just be lucky and live in one of the ten happiest countries in the world.

Wonder if any of those have a pure socialist system? Lol.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Wants to Grow

Bingo arthurm! There seems to be a lot of confusion between a welfare state and Socialist government systems.

https://www.myvalleynews.com/scandinavian-countries-are-not-socialist/

Under the traditional definition of socialism that requires government ownership and distribution of the means of production, the Scandinavian countries, Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden are not socialist as Democratic presidential contenders insist.

All are free market economies. None have government-mandated minimum wage laws. These wages are set by unions. The Fraser Institute which ranks countries of the world on economic freedom based upon limited government, property rights and sound money value, not socialist attributes, ranked Denmark 14, Finland 20, Norway 26 and Sweden 19. The United States was listed as 12. Socialist countries normally take the bottom of the 180 countries ranked, according to the Economic Freedom of the World Index.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday




Hay

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Socialism and other societal organization systems are like religions. There are dozens of different sorts of Baptists. Accepting this truth instead of sticking to some archaic definition in order to be able to dismiss socialism as a valid system is foolish in my estimation. There is usefulness in the form of socialism encountered in Scandinavian cultures. Because it does not fit some narrow out of date definition does not make it not socialism.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

Wants to Grow:

https://www.myvalleynews.com/scandinavian-countries-are-not-socialist/

"Yes, these countries, after becoming comparatively wealthy through the free market system at the end of the 19th century and most of the 20th, did become welfare states in the 1970s. As Nima Sanandaji, the Swedish author of “Debunking Utopia: Exposing the Myth of Nordic Socialism,” said in 2015, “Many of the desirable features of Scandinavian societies, such as low income inequality, low levels of poverty and high levels of economic growth predated the development of the welfare state. These and other indicators began to deteriorate after the expansion of the welfare state and the increase in taxes to fund it,” according to an article by Jim Geraghty, “Ten Reasons We Can’t, and Shouldn’t, Be Nordic,” in National Review, March 12, 2018.

By the definition of socialism above, it may be possible for a nation to be a welfare country without the government ownership of the means of production – the Nordic model. But if they gather the wealth through confiscatory taxes and redistribute it through gift-giving to those who had not created the wealth, how can they escape the charge of socialism?"

Hay

4 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Sigh! Off to golf, but I might write more later. The big medicare computer has looked at all my Family Medical bills for this year till now and decided till the end of December that my medicare rebate is increased to 80%.

Thank you oh mighty computer for the gift.

Off course, when I get to the Golf course and pay my green fees, hire a cart and have a drink or two in the club house some confiscatory taxes will be collected.


.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Wants to Grow

Hi Hay,

https://www.myvalleynews.com/scandinavian-countries-are-not-socialist/

The Scandinavian story since the late 80s “has been a turn against socialism. Taxes have fallen and markets liberalized.” A backlash “against welfare dependency in Denmark” followed, as per “Sorry, Bernie – Scandinavia is no socialist paradise after all.”

In countries which already have wealth because of a free market philosophy, the evidence is the existence of a middle class which spawns economic equality for all who choose to work for it. They can afford the free college, health care, welfare and etc. so long as immigration, also wanting everything for free, is very limited.

These four countries, because of the presence of the free market that socialists seek to destroy, apparently could afford to expand their “free” offerings. Entitlements and free stuff is a favorite lure for reeling in the industrialized world. Because they were made rich through the capitalist philosophy, socialists worldwide look to the “Nordic Model” to emulate. But socialists ignore how they got their wealth. It did not happen by nationalizing industries like General Motors and subsidizing favored ones like Solyndra as the U.S. did under former President George W. Bush and former President Barack Obama. So the lesson of the Scandinavian countries is to keep the government out of managing the economy and thus away from socialism

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Socialism and other societal organization systems are like religions. There are dozens of different sorts of Baptists. Accepting this truth instead of sticking to some archaic definition in order to be able to dismiss socialism as a valid system is foolish in my estimation. There is usefulness in the form of socialism encountered in Scandinavian cultures. Because it does not fit some narrow out of date definition does not make it not socialism.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elvis

By the definition of socialism above, it may be possible for a nation to be a welfare country without the government ownership of the means of production – the Nordic model. But if they gather the wealth through confiscatory taxes and redistribute it through gift-giving to those who had not created the wealth, how can they escape the charge of socialism?"

A million likes, Hay.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
patriciae_gw(07)

Elvis, in socialism the issue is created the wealth how? and with what? You probably have never wondered why or how an oil company can OWN the oil they pull out of the ground and make so much money from. Have you thought through the premise that you could apply the same thinking to air? I don't expect you have. How can the Seattle City light company make so much money from exploiting the water that belongs to all of us that happens to flow through the Skagit river? They make immense amounts of money by exploiting this resource that belongs to whom? If it can be owned it belongs to everyone. They were allowed to use eminent domain to make this claim back in the day. Is it confiscatory taxes to make those who own stock in this company pay back a portion of what they got for free? How do you get really really rich? Think it through if you plan on breathing.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

They can escape the charge of Socialism because they are running modern economic models.

Love "confiscatory taxes" which ones are non confiscatory taxes ?

I hate stupid tax rates such as high tax rates on wage earners or those proposed 70% tax rates on the super rich.

No one wants to pay any oil of civilisation!

Can you imagine a medicare computer system in the USA which covers all citizens?

The Australian System must be saving the medical fraternity heaps and there is the bonus that there are not many horror stories of people mortgaging their house to pay medical bills.

Forget about Socialism and Welfare Country. Think modern times and change is needed!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday



Hay


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday




Hay


2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

Milton Friedman SMOKED that dimwit typical liberal Phil Donahue.

He's absolutely right.

Keep it up libs across this country--especially now since going straight to socialism, no need to cover up since the media has groomed the Young Pioneer Millennials to buy into this by dangling "free" college, "free" health care, "dismissed student loans," and anything else their little hearts want so they can drink coffee, listen to music and post on their smart phones.

If the libs win, everyone loses.

Freidman warned years ago, many of us have.

That's when we'll truly say--we had ours, we shared, it wasn't enough, you took it all, and there's nothing left for anyone but distributed misery and the Bernies and the Lizs who will sit in THEIR grand homes and pontificate about what a grand job they've done.

It's not rocket science.

Thank you Hay. I think you're preaching to the choir but we can sure say we told you so.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

I suppose even the dim science has evolved/improved/learnt since Milton was an active eloquent pioneer.

Enjoyed the talk about the pencil way up in the thread. Wonderful!

In Australia, we do not have the dole, we have "new start". Much discussion about how difficult it would be to survive on that handout.

Genghis Khan politics are not the way to go. None of the ten happiest countries on earth are socialist.



1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday




Hay


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Milton is right on the money, the family farm or family business would probably have to be wound up to pay death taxes some countries. But not here in Socialist Australia. Google is your friend!

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

1976 wants its context back.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Again Milton was right on the money, but of course in 1978 there were no super computers as described in my post up above.

It is 2019 and perhaps some socialist countries have better and cheaper medical systems than in the USA.


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
adoptedbyhounds

"The big difference between Socialism and unbridled Capitalism is not in how much tax you pay but in how you view the culture you live within or conversely without."

No, the big difference is in who owns the means of production.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

I thought Milton Friedman & his school of thought was partially responsible for the destruction of Argentina's economy, among others...?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday




Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday



Hay


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Free to choose? What is the point of showing these ancient Milton videos? Times have changed mostly for the better. First world countries have adapted to change, while the USA in some ways, has, but perhaps not to the extent that it could have.

Trotted along to Eye Clinic today for treatment that did not exist back in Milton times.

The eye clinic is privately owned and at a guess employs about ten people. Had the treatment, my wife paid the bill, about $600 which is more than the most common fee..The refund of the most common fee will be in my bank account tomorrow.

Points.I f no medicare, treatment would be a big drain on funds

No healthcare fund. Only have Private Hospital Healthcare. Having a third party involved in everything medical in my old age would be a pain.

Thank goodness this Librul doesn't live in the USA.

Added via edit: I might not live in the USA, but some of my retirement money does!


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
how2girl

Family member has same treatment every 8 weeks, $560.00, rebate $499.95 - cost $60.05. Ah...socialism.

1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bry911

“Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem—neat, plausible, and wrong.”― H.L. Mencken

Milton Friedman was brilliant, but was also an incredible exploiter of the simplicity bias. He could take complicated and nuanced topics and offer understandable and often pleasing explanations that were not at all complicated or nuanced, but neither were they entirely complete.

For example, let's score Milton Friedman in the Friedman - Bowles debate.


If you watch the debate, you will see Friedman do pretty well, I am not sure there is a clear winner, but he certainly holds his own.

However, looking at the aspirants mentioned in the debate over the last 30 years and the score changes significantly. The Eastern European countries mentored by Friedman and mentioned in the debate, have now had two solid decades of corruption, strife and economic problems. These were largely fledgling free economies who looked toward the U.S. in the Reagan years as the design principle of their system. Meanwhile the countries that Friedman specifically opposes have all passed the U.S. in every measure Friedman used as proof of opposition.

___

By the way, in reference to a recent video, we know that economic class mobility is currently a myth, it is arguable whether or not it was ever true, but it certainly no longer is. Controlling for edge bleed alone you have a 60% to have substantially the same economic position that your parents had. Even looking at earned income alone and disregarding portfolio and passive income doesn't help people move up in socioeconomic class. We have parsed the data every possible way and it just simply is not there in any appreciable way.

3 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

Oh good grief, nothing but excuses.

The greatest country in the world with the most opportunities and FREEDOM TO PURSUE those opportunities.

Whine whine whine victimhood victimhood victimhood.

If you're able mentally and not too limited physically, people can accomplish what they want.

No one HAS to turn out like their parents.

Statistics only record failure in this instance.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
1 Like Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday



Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

So HAY what is the point you are trying to make in this thread which you destroyed way back?

I married the Dragon Woman! Who knew how the little dragons would turn out? I certainly didn't!

What a lottery that is!!!!!!

As for playing the poker machines. Seeing they only return 80 to 90% of the player's money the odds are not good.

My take is that it is almost impossible to run the USA with an antique political system.

Waiting for some sensible discussion.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

"Waiting for some sensible discussion."

Around here? Don't hold your breath. Be careful what you wish for.

I think we're doing just fine.

"What most people know about the April 1962 Nobel Prize dinner at the White House is a famous quote from President Kennedy. He said, “I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.”"

Hay



Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

Be careful what you wish for.

Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

Always have. Always do. Always will.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

Mr Hay, I said above.

"My take is that it is almost impossible to run the USA with an antique political system."

I stand by that and the only reason that the country has done so well is that many past presidents have selected many of the best from the enormous talent pool a population of over 300 million gives.

Trying to run the USA without the best leads to?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
jama7(6)

Whine whine whine victimhood victimhood victimhood.

If you're able mentally and not too limited physically, people can accomplish what they want.

Well, Stan you're right. This seems to be a big problem for many single, young, white men nowadays. Instead of putting their nose to ye 'ole grindstone, applying themselves to study and hard work, they're blaming women, immigrants, POC, the system for their failures. Year by year they fall further and further behind women in receiving undergrad and grad degrees. Seems many believe that they deserve some special privilege awarded to whites at birth. Not working out that way of late so we have a generation of men angered and empowered by Trump acting out. Their anger has been playing out more and more and they are now the obvious "profile" of a mass shooter.

It appears they missed your Horatio Alger 101 class.

2 Likes Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

"The great irony for Friedman's fans is that the one piece of public policy he was responsible for that was widely and internationally adopted was one that greatly increased the ability of central governments to collect taxes - a policy he later repudiated in disgust."

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

"For all his high public profile - thanks to his regular column in Newsweek and series on US television, Free To Choose, which made him into something of a star - today no mainstream academic economist is a monetarist and Friedman left no lasting school of academic heirs. Even the "Chicago school" at the University of Chicago has waned in influence, eclipsed by the mighty MIT army of economists that followed Samuelson."

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

New article (new aspect)

Pollution is Theft

Cicala is unequivocal on the morality of this situation: “I compensate every one of my other input suppliers, he says. “I have to buy the coal. I have to buy the steel. All of that exchange is based on mutually-beneficial, willing exchange, but there’s no market for the pollution that I’m inflicting on Michael.”

If he doesn’t compensate Greenstone for damages and do so in a way that Greenstone agrees to then Cicala says he’s not a capitalist. He’s a criminal.

“Companies that don’t pay are guilty of theft,” he says. “If someone has a better way of describing [the act of] taking something from someone without their consent and without compensating them, I’d be happy to use that term.”

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ziemia(6a)

re ^^^^^^

https://www.ecosystemmarketplace.com/articles/ghost-of-milton-friedman-materializes-in-chicago-endorses-a-price-on-carbon/

This is today's U of Chicago economy dept - reviewing Miltie's views with respect to today's issues.

Pollution is theft. And it makes criminals out of capitalists.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

Anyone interested in Ziemia's comments can find a discussion here:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5816245/who-is-richard-adams-i-know-who-milton-friedman-is-and-ben-bernanke#n=0


Who is Richard Adams?

Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
war garden

if that is all true about AOC!

why was she working as a barista?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay


Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Some people, believe it or not, don't have wealthy families to help them make ends meet.

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

"Starting around 2000, Peterson began collecting Soviet-era paintings. The paintings are displayed in his house as a reminder of the relationship between totalitarian propaganda and art, and as examples of how idealistic visions can become totalitarian oppression and horror.


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Stan Areted

carol__w__fl:

Some people, believe it or not, don't have wealthy families to help them make ends meet.


Carol, why would anyone need a family--wealthy or otherwise--to help them make ends meet?

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday


Hay

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

So? Just came back from a volunteers Christmas Lunch. Work is a basic human need and many "Basic" jobs have gone.

As for the genius thing, once shared an abode with a guy who was a member of Mensa. He was a pain!

Closer to home, there is a winner of the genetic lottery in the family. His mother used to say "he has trouble tying his shoelaces".

Loved the bit in the talk about the drug addict. What about people who are not drug addicts who will never be rocket scientists.

Trickle up is much better than trickle down!

Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Save    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
haydayhayday

Anyone interested in Ziemia's comments can find a discussion here:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5816245/who-is-richard-adams-i-know-who-milton-friedman-is-and-ben-bernanke#n=0


Who is Richard Adams?

Hay

Save    
Browse Gardening and Landscaping Stories on Houzz See all Stories
Living Rooms Living Room Features That Never Go Out of Style
These key pieces will help your living room keep its good looks, no matter what's in fashion
Full Story
Product Picks Guest Picks: Merrily Modern Holiday Decor
Give red and green the year off with fetching decorations and tableware in metallics and white
Full Story
Life You Said It: ‘Some Ask Why, Others Why Not?’ and Other Houzz Quotables
Design advice, inspiration and observations that struck a chord this week
Full Story
MW Construction performs all types of construction from design-build to general contracting to construction... Read More