I’m afraid it’s true, or even optimistic.

We installed 2 Sub Zeros (36" freezer and 36" refrigerator) when we remodeled in 1987 and I think the price was about 3 grand each. We did replace the refrigerator when it was 25 years old and even then we debated whether we should just repair it. The freezer was still working when we sold the house a few years ago.

We put in a 42" French door Sub Zero in this house and I'd be thrilled if it lasted 20 years - but then I'd be happy to last another 20 years too.

Our Subzero all-fridge was here when we bought the house. It's at least 22 years old. It needed a minor repair, and the repairman told me the new Subzeros are not built to last. He advised me to keep this one going as long as possible.

The rest of my appliances are 6 years old, and I'm saving up for the inevitable replacements. It's a frustrating situation. If they aren't built to last, they should at least cost less.

I think Sub Zero is about the only refrigerator today that lasts a long time, but service calls can be expensive.

I'm so glad I have a 1948 range, a 16 year old KA dishwasher (they made good ones then!), and an 8 year old KA refrigerator (fingers crossed as I love it!).

Even back in 2003, I was told that "average" appliances were only built to last 8 years. For that reason I bought extended warranties on every appliance...and used for every appliance except my Wolf cooktop.

• My counter depth GE fridge lasted 14 years but with many repairs that began after year 3. Replaced with a huge capacity LG counter depth in 2017....HUGE mistake (needed to be rebuilt in its second year where parts were covered but $800 labor was not)
• My Thermador double oven lasted 15 years with a few repairs when I finally lost use of the top oven and replaced it proactively with a Wolf last year
• My Bosch dishwasher only had a couple repairs and lasted 16 years. It was still working but not as well when I replaced it with another Bosch last year
• My Wolf gas cooktop is still going strong moving into year 17 with zero repairs....which is why I replaced my double oven with Wolf. Fingers crossed.....

It depends on the appliance complexity as well.

A gas rangetop or range (not dual fuel) is quite a simple appliance with little, other than igniters, to go wrong (assuming you don't have fancy-pants digital controls, clocks, etc with a circuit board).

Refrigerators are the shortest-lived.

Dishwashers depend, to some degree, on the conditions. Hard water? Shorter life.

Ovens are getting more and more complex with their controls, which are difficult to make heat-proof, so the failure mode in most of those is control boards going out and limited replacement parts to repair after a certain number of years. The most recent Thermador ovens, for example, were downgraded to a lower maximum operating temperature from the previous generation, coincident with going to the silly swipe pad control.

We are also seeing a lot of "value engineering" applied to new appliance design - thinner materials, lower cost components and construction. What was an awesome oven 12 years ago will not be as robust now. Monogram refrigeration, in particular, from the late 90's was fantastic - commercially made. For the last 14 or so years, since they went in-house with it and have a completely different cooling and control system, it's been absolute crap. I loved mine from 1999 and didn't realize they had changed when we put one in our 2006 build. The 2006 had service calls, on average, every 18 months for no cooling, dispenser shooting water across the fridge on its own (that one was "fun") and if you read long enough here, you'll find the no- cooling to be a very common issue with Monogram (main control board, inverter board).

The fridge issue is the reason we specifically designed for a standard depth, freestanding 36" fridge in our new (2019) kitchen. When the fridge dies (and it will), we can easily replace with almost any model on the market (we planned height and clearances). We have a gas rangetop which should not need much ever. Thermador/Bosch dishwasher (both previous ones were still going strong and looking like new when we sold those houses, the first 7 years old and the second 12 1/2). Countertop microwave set in a properly-clearanced cubby below counter, no model-specific trim kit installed, no pricey microwave drawer. The biggest analysis paralysis was our double ovens. No good answer there. We spend the better part of a year researching with no standout option which was really frustrating.

Michelle, that was great information. Especially about using standard spaces to allow easier replacement.

I soured on residential appliances when I realized they have been cheapened down to last fewer than ten years, typically.

It's not just the replacement cost. It is also trying to figure out if something is wrong, finding a repairman, making an appointment, waiting at home, spending hundreds in an attempt to fix the appliance, then shopping for a replacement, getting on the store's installation schedule, waiting at home again, and all this time you haven't had a working whatever-it-is...and when the new appliance is installed, you find yourself having to connect it to your WiFi or smartphone, or wondering if it is listening to you.

My solution has been to gradually convert to commercial appliances when feasible. They are typically simple, sturdy, built to last a long time under much heavier use than a residential kitchen will see, and can sometimes be less expensive than a higher-end residential equivalent. Granted they lack the style and most of the conveniences of residential appliances, and are usually less energy-efficient. The workflow can be different too. But all the end of the day, what we need from kitchen appliances is pretty simple: hot, cold, wet, etc.

At this point we have switched over to a commercial refrigerator (True) and a commercial dishwasher (Hobart). The range is as close to a commercial range as I could find, all gas with no "electronics" (American Range). I just replaced my leaking faucet with a commercial brand (T&S). Their predecessors had all failed, or started needing substantial repairs, after about 12 years (and I considered myself lucky to get that long).

For the small appliances, commercial often makes less sense. For example, I'm not going to buy a RobotCoupe food processor because all the models are large if not hulking, with price tags to match. Instead, I'm tending to buy used residential small appliances from the '80s or so. These are easily and cheaply available on eBay etc, and generally pre-date the worst of the value-engineering and shift to the lowest-cost production locations. A 1980s Cuisinart food processor is

simple, works fine, of high quality and made in Japan.

What is the definition of “last”?

I recently moved into a house with dual SZ’s, 20 years old. I called for repair when the fridge wasn’t holding temp. As it turned out I got lucky, he simply recalibrated the electronics and it’s been fine since. BUT. He had loaded his truck with a new condenser due to the service record he had. I forget what he said that would have cost, I believe in the $800-1000 range. He also noticed that the compressor was not original, but didn’t have details on that because his company supposedly didn’t do it. While here, he went on and on about how great my units are, they’ll last forever, etc. But will they “last” because someone like me is stuck with a choice of expensive repairs or astronomical replacement cost PLUS reconfigure at least that section of cabinetry? I’d imagine the 36” opening was standard back then but the height’s gone up so now there’s nothing available to fit the space.

So back to my original question, what does “last” mean? SZ’s web site says life expectancy is 20 years. With or without expensive repairs that one would never consider performing on cheaper appliances?

“we have switched over to a commercial refrigerator (True)”

@John Liu - I have heard commercial refrigerators like the True are very noisy, are energy hogs, and have a very high purchase price. If those are all true, your rec for a commercial fridge, and other commercial appliances, is not do-able for most people. This would be key information. Can you please comment on the noise, energy efficiency, and purchase price of your True refrigerator?

I have a True T23 two door all refrigerator: https://www.truemfg.com/USA-Foodservice/Products/Traditional-Reach-Ins/T-23-2-HC

It cost about $2500 when I bought it about 4 years ago. The list price today is about $3200 but street price is lower. There are less expensive and more expensive commercial refrigeration brands; True is all US made and generally considered one of the better commercial brands.

There are many versions. You can get half refrigerator / half freezer, all refrigerator or all freezer, single or dual doors, solid or glass front doors, etc. I have a freezer in the basement, so I decided to maximize the fridge volume in my kitchen.

The positives, from my point of view:

1. Very spacious. Even though my fridge is only 23" wide, it holds more than the larger residential fridges I've owned. Of course, this is partly because it's all fridge.

2. Very powerful. This is subjective, however.

3. Simple. There's no little parts to break, no touchscreen.

4. Easy to clean. The compressor is at the bottom of the unit, just remove one screw and the panel lifts off, you can clean the condensor coils in 5 minutes. (Residential fridges usually have to be pulled out from the enclosure to clean, since the coil is at the rear.)

5. Easy to service. I think so, but have never had to do it. That is because everything is so easy to access. Parts are easily available. True doesn't regularly change models or discontinue parts.

The negatives, also per me:

1. There are no conveniences. No door shelves, no butter garage, no water dispenser, no veg and meat drawers. It is just a big box of cold with fixed wire shelves (which I changed: see below).

2. It is deep and tall. Stuff can get lost "back there".

3. It is noisy. Every now and then, the compressor will run, and it is about as loud as, probably, your vent hood fan at the lowest speed. If you're actually working in your kitchen, you probably won't notice. If you're sipping a quiet cup of tea, enjoying the quiet of an empty house, then you'll notice. Until you get used to it, then you'll tune it out. Or, for the particularly noise-sensitive, not.

4. The commercial vendors will deliver to your driveway but will not install. You'll need some friends to unbox, roll the fridge (it is on casters) into the house, and plug it in. (I did, however, find a commercial refrigeration service willing to come to a house if ever needed.)

I did some things to adapt this commercial fridge to home life.

1. I placed a 2 gal Brita water dispenser with spigot inside. That takes care of the "ice water" thing. (The water dispenser is typically one of the most trouble-prone parts of a residential fridge, and I have to wonder what the insides look like after several years without cleaning...)

2. I removed all the lower shelves, replaced with 100 lb full-extension drawer slides and acrylic drawers. So my lower "shelves" are see-through and pull out all the way, and nothing gets lost "back there". I made the drawers from 1/4" clear acrylic, but a plastics shop (e.g. TAP Plastics) could do it too. I dedicated one drawer to meat, another to veg, etc.

I don't know about the energy consumption part. There was no notable change in our utility bill.

So that's the pros and cons. I'd say a commercial fridge is not for everyone. A residential model will be more convenient, at the expense of less reliability, shorter life, etc. A commercial model works best for me.

.

That was a great write-up @John Liu. Very informative!

Any appliance will "last" for as long as 1) the consumer is willing to have repairs done, or DIY them, and 2) needed parts are available.

"The price of a decent side by side refrigerator in 1978 was $900. That would be 4K today. You can still buy a $900 side by side. That would have been a $200 fridge then."

That's an improper analysis because it does not consider the changes in appliances features, energy efficiency, or manufacturing efficiency. A 2019 refrigerator is NOT a 1978 refrigerator any more than a 2019 Honda Accord is a 1978 Honda Accord.

Here are a couple of charts that show the life expectancy of various types of appliances:

• Mr. Appliance ??
• Consumer Reports (10 years old)

CR computes predicted-reliability statistics for various appliance types and brands. The variation in reliability by brand is enormous and so-called "high-end" appliances often do not fare well. You can check the product/brand reliability here (paywall).

Isn't it kind of sad, in this day, when we are trying to reduce, reuse, recycle that we have throw away appliances. I'm sure some parts can be recycled but I wonder how much ends up in the landfill?

It's horrible, but true appliances do not last like they use to. Planned Obsolescence is a disgusting business model which is bad for the enviroment & bad for the consumers. Something needs to be done by governments to make businesses to want to make appliances that last. Maybe tax incentives to companies & or consumers for buying appliances that last longer.

Here's a video on appliances not lasting longer & hard to get serviced.

https://youtu.be/hk2TfF1M4r8

"Planned Obsolescence is a disgusting business model which is bad for the enviroment & bad for the consumers."

Provide proof that appliance manufacturers' practice "planned obsolescence"

"Something needs to be done by governments to make businesses to want to make appliances that last. Maybe tax incentives..."

You want the government to hand out tax incentives for devices owned by consumers and over which it has no control? Appliance lifetimes vary all over the place; how will "appliances that last" be measured? Suppose electronics cause appliances to fail more than mechanical components. Do you want appliances with NO electronics to extend their lifetimes? Do you want to eliminate induction ranges, for example? Do you want a washing machine that uses more energy because the electronics which reduce energy consumption can't be included -- but the washer will last 40 years? Do you want appliances with the same features as those of the Soviet era?

https://medium.com/@ryanfinlay/they-used-to-last-50-years-c3383ff28a8e

Clearly, companies can make energy-efficient appliances that last much longer. The experience, technology and materials are there.

Some of the points in that Medium article are on-target and some are not.

Proof of planned obsolscence

https://www.ifixit.com/News/planned-obsolescence

In 2013, the European Economic and Social Committee (EESC) called for a total ban on planned obsolescence, specifically any built-in defects designed to shorten a product’s life. The EESC also called for wider access to repair parts and more information about the product’s expected lifetime on product labels.

And just this month, France declared war on planned obsolescence in a big way. They mandated that manufacturers have to inform consumers as to how long appliances—like televisions and cell phones—are expected to last. The law rewards durability. And it promotes repairability, too. The new law requires manufacturers to inform vendors how long spare parts for an appliance will be available, the Washington Post reports. The implication is that consumers should be able to get those spare parts when it comes time for a repair.

Something needs to be done. Manufacturers can make appliances last much longer. They did it before they can do it again.

Yes, wdccruise, as a consumer I want options. I would buy an appliance that last longer, even if it was without a computer. I actually try to buy appliances without computer parts, because they last longer. I want more mechanical, durable appliances over pushing a computer button for convenience. It is not convenient to have to keep buying appliances every 10 or less years.

The solution is for you to purchase old appliances and to keep them forever. I had 35-year-old washer and dryers which I gave away when I remodeled my washer-dryer closet. Yes, they still worked. If I hand known you wanted them I would have given you first dibs. If you and others who want old appliances purchase on the used market, it will eliminate the need for the government to get involved in the design of appliances of the type the rest of us want.

"Old" appliances eventually run into the parts NLA glitch when mechanicals wear down ... and they will.

For all the touting that 1950s / 1960s / 1970s machines ran for 40 years without repair, that's not always true. My family's 1962 Whirlpool toploader had *many* repairs in 15 years, including bearings replaced twice (much cheaper cost then than now). The 1976 model that replaced it ran for 18 years with notably fewer repairs but bearings did it in.

It’s true. They don’t last and part of my take is based on having to replace 2 double wall ovens within 7 years! They were highly rated and recommended but mid- range priced. This time we went with an expensive, “high end” brand which has been wonderful but it isn’t even 2 years old. On the other hand, our 2003 washer and dryer combo is still working like a champ. We’re hoping it keeps going. . It’s already outlasted today’s appliances...16 years and no slowing down.

I never meant government should design appliances. Lol.

Capitalism needs government to work. Government needs to oversee products & services which are sold to the public. It's a check & balances. Government laws & rules helps protect consumers. For example, defective equipment liabilities, selling faulty merchandise that can cause harm, ect. Businesses have a responsibility for what they sell to the public & the government helps regulate that process. The government should keep the relationship between consumers & businesses fair to keep consumers confidence high, so the economy keeps growing.

My previous suggestion was for tax break incentives for businesses who manufacture quality appliances which last longer. If a company can save tax money by making better longer lasting appliances they will hopefully start providing longer lasting appliances. People who want longer lasting appliances can then buy their choice & the businesses that choose to, will save on taxes. It's a win/win. If it becomes popular & profits rise, then other businesses will see the profits & will follow the trend away from planned obsolence to quality products which last for many years.

The extra bonus is there will be less waste of throwing out broken appliances. That means less landfill use & therefore hopefully less tax raises on public for government needing to buy more landfill property or hiring private companies to manage it. It would even be an extra bonus, if government gave a tax break to consumers who bought the appliances that last longer as well. It's all connected & effects the other.

"Capitalism needs government to work." Only to provide a legal framework.

"Government needs to oversee products & services which are sold to the public." Really? Everything? I just bought a couple of lights from Amazon. Did/should the government oversee them? No.

"For example, defective equipment liabilities..." That's why we have a legal framework that allows person who are harmed to take action against those who harm them.

"The government should keep the relationship between consumers & businesses fair to keep consumers". Ah, the old "fair" argument. Is it fair to keep Uber from competing against the taxi monopoly? How about preventing foreign airlines from competing against domestic ones? Granting Comcast a monopoly? Governments are preventing housing production thereby driving up housing costs; "fair"? Warren wants to drive the health insurance industry out of business; is that "fair"?

"tax break incentives for businesses who manufacture quality appliances which last longer." Whose going to define "quality"? "Last longer" than what? Bernie Sanders is going to sit in his office and define "quality" and "last longer" for thousands of appliances models? What's the difference between this and Soviet-style central planning?

"tax break to consumers who bought the appliances that last longer" So you also want the government to give tax breaks to people who buy products the government approves? You want to Elizabeth Warren to decide what YOU buy? When it's tax time, do you want to have to drag out all your receipts to see if you get a tax break? Isn't the mortgage tax deduction and all the other crap in the tax code enough?

Bought a 42" SZ for a new build 6 years ago for $10k. Earlier this summer it just quit working, lights still worked but display was out and it no longer cooled. Repair guy came out, took a quick look at it and proceeded to replace the controller board. I asked what was wrong, 'not sure but this will fix it'. Everything is run by that board, they don't trouble shoot the individual system just replace the board and see if that works. It did, cost ~$250. It actually runs better than new now, we used to get a hot spot on the frame between the doors, like really hot, that's gone now.

My Sharp Micro Drawer purchased at the same time as the rest of the appliances lasted about 2 years before it needed a new magnetron, been fine for the last 4 years.

My Wolf CSO boiler went out after 3 years, took it in myself and was actually pretty reasonable to repair. Fine for the last 3 (it gets used A LOT).

The crazing in my E-series..........

I have a built in Brew Express coffee maker that I've had to replace every 2 years like clock work, on the 3rd unit now.

I also have 2 20+ yo refrigerators, 1 in the utility room and 1 in the garage that I bought at a garage sale for $20. Both work flawlessly, we had the GE for over 23 years and it just keeps running.

New appliances suck, even the hi-end ones. My Bluestar is going fine because it's basically a dumb machine though I still have to replace igniters and drill out and replace the old screws because a SS or brass screws must be too hard to source for BS.

Hot spot between the doors, probably a mullion heater to dissipate moisture condensation in humid environments. Refrigerators have had them for years, typically around the freezer door. An on/off switch (labeled in various ways) was added during the energy crisis years. Some units handled it by way of running a loop of the (hot) condenser line around the area instead of an electric heater.

Your new control board apparently eliminated the circuit to run the heater.

does anyone have recommendations for a decent refrigerator that will last, but won't cost 1/4 of a year's salary? sadly most of the good old ones that you could re-furbish and weren't too big to go in a 1950's kitchen are now collector's items.