Divination not their strong suit

tapla(Mid-MI z-5b-6a)

It seems weather alarmists have been inaccurate in the extreme at looking into the future.

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lurker111

The global warmers think all of that really happened and they lived
through it. It's all documented history to them. They also think Trump
is a Russian puppet. :)

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maifleur01

Just because the dates are wrong does not prove the predictions are.

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Stan Areted

There's always hope that the world will end in two years, hang in there.

Just like there's always hope all the predictions about President Trump and a downfall might come true.

SO far, there is a trail behind shoulder high of absolute declarations, "predictions" and statements made with such surety and taunting, even. Well, HIllary lost and Donald Trump WON the presidency.

Just look back on posts, here.

But President Trump will not be removed without more lies, however, just like the articles in the article in the OP.

Heck, the left cannot even prove what they contend with their own lies!


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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Are you serious?

It’s not possible to accurately predict weather more than a few hours in advance?!

that’s sarcasm.

Not understanding the difference between climate and weather seems to be the driving factor in climate change denial. Well, that and a crippling lack of self awareness and extreme levels of selfishness.

that is not sarcasm.

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lurker111

But but...No one denies climate change. We understand that the climate is in chaos and always changes. A static climate is an alarmists fantasy. :)

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

lurker I know plenty of people in real life who do not believe the climate is changing. Just simply refuse to accept it. So to say “no one denies climate change” is almost charmingly naive.

Given that the climate is changing, and that humans as a species can not exist beyond a certain temperature range and will have a hard time adjusting to new realities of weather events and seasonal shifts, is there anything you propose to do to make our species’s chances better?

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Ziemia(6a)

The source in the OP is not neutral in this argument. They are not a science based org.

"The Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) is a non-profit libertarian think tank founded by political writer Fred L. Smith Jr. on March 9, 1984, in Washington, D.C., to advance principles of limited government, free enterprise, and individual liberty."

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lurker111

is there anything you propose to do to make our species’s chances better?

No. Not according to your beliefs. Climate is a joke and only exists on
paper. You do understand that global warming only warms winters and
that's where the heat will be added? Are warmer winters a bad thing?
:) AGW is another smullett. Half baked science. :)

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Ziemia(6a)

WTH?

"You do understand that global warming only warms winters andthat's where the heat will be added?"

And, yes, warmer winters are a bad thing.

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ubro(2a)

^^^ Yes, warmer winters mean changes in water flow, changes in rain patterns that affect farming, they mean more wild fires. I live in a cold part of the world and warmer winters are not welcome just because of personal comfort .

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lurker111

WTH?

AGW science.

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lurker111

A fraction of a degree warmer? (average) Really? lol

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Why would only winters be warmer?

But to that point: it’s always winter/autumn somewhere.

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lurker111

Why would only winters be warmer?

I'm too old to go through this again. lol Something called physics.

But to that point: it’s always winter/autumn somewhere.

Not true. The Ferrel cells are the only areas with 4 seasons.

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Ziemia(6a)

Fake Science is harder to keep track of, I guess.

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lurker111

Yep. AGW is gone and now we have the climate pretenders.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Can you explain what you think you mean by Ferrel cells, and how your interpretation relates to this information I just discovered at brittanica.com?

“The Ferrel cell, however, is still not a good representation of reality because it requires that the upper-level mid-latitude winds flow westward; actually the eastward-flowing surface winds become stronger with height and reach their maximum velocities around the 10-km (6-mile) level in the jet streams.”

(and I never mentioned every region on earth having four distinct seasons. I said it is always winter/autumn somewhere on earth. whether the two are distinct seasons or a gradual transition away from the warmer temps and weather patterns of summer to the cooler temps and weather patterns of winter is irrelevant to the point: to say “temps will only be warmer in winter” ignores the fact that summer in one hemisphere is winter in the other.)

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lurker111

Can you explain what you think you mean by Ferrel cells

Used as a reference point. :)

You should read the first IPCC report instead of asking me for the info. I'm only sharing their science,

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Carro

Stan Areted

There's always hope that the world will end in two years, hang in there.

Wear your Nikes at all times ;-)

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Well if anyone cares, some things I would like to see are

-investment in harnessing the power of increasingly fierce winds and seas, so that when activities like off shore drilling become impossible we still have the ability to generate power

-a complete world wide moratorium on the use of fresh water in mining and fracking

-a high (even exorbitant) value placed on the use of fresh water by bottling plants including for prepared beverages

-government investment in technologies that increase human ability to survive in far northern regions, including basic technologies like water works and electrical grids

-investment in wastewater treatment systems at the household level so that the water I use to brush my teeth can be used to flush my toilet and the water that flushes my toilet can be returned to the earth efficiently. Make every building a nearly-closed loop

-investment in desalination technology. My understanding is that it is currently cost prohibitive, I would like governments to incentivize research in this area and private companies to make it a focus. Fresh water will be our biggest challenge imo

All this investment in technology and infrastructure translates to jobs for people and a better quality of life, even if one subscribes to the notion that we don’t have to do it for our very survival.

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catspat(aka)

You should read the first IPCC report instead of asking me for the info. I'm only sharing their science,


Why read the First Assessment Report from 1990, when the science around this has progressed by leaps and bounds since then? Odd.... I would suggest the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report 2014 -- the summary for policymakers is the more accessible, less technical part.

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jama7(6)

That's a great list Lindsey. Perhaps if there were more profit involved, they would have been implemented decades ago. I'm sure there have been great strides made in some of these areas but we're unaware of them; they were squashed by the powers that be and the fossil fuel industries.

Our historic seaport city is located along a major river in MA. We're the last town downriver and when the sewage of some very large cities upstream is released into the river after major rains? Wow. The systems can't hold it all so this is the solution. :( Our rains have been increasing in frequency the last decade and this is now happening multiple times per yr; 3x already this year. The money to build new systems in multiple cities makes it prohibitive and frequent flooding is common now. Volunteer crews do their best to capture all the needles that float down along with the crap. Many end up on the banks of the rivers where dogs, kids play. THIS is just one example of the type of aging infrastructure that needs to be brought into this century. The cost is beyond most towns and cities; federal needs to step in.

If you haven't seen it yet, this 3 part series is fascinating: Inside Bill Gates Brain on Netflix. If just a handful of billionaires had his fervor and passion to improve world conditions with groundbreaking tech, who knows what we'd accomplish.

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jama7(6)

It's curious how people can think that since the beginning of the industrial age we've been releasing more and more gases into the air and they believe it does NOTHING to the atmosphere? Science anyone? And yes... this weather vs climate seems to confuse many. Lurker scoffs at a fraction of a degree warmer? YES ....it has a huge impact. You need to read up on that maybe. Same with sea levels...it's fractional BUT it translates to quickly eroding land. Downtown Boston is now flooding fairly frequently as are many coastal towns on a regular basis. We have restaurants, parks under water after a big storm.

Here's some quick data. As proof that humans have had the largest impact, look how quickly it's ramped up the last sev decades...right along with incredible population growth, vehicles and the services that go along with all that. The US population has more than doubled since 1950; now add in multiple cars per family (as opposed to prob 1 back then), A/C now common, much larger homes, coal plants, major ag....think of all the diffs. How could it NOT have an impact? The US used to lead the world in tech, science. How we've fallen.

_________________________________________________________________

What evidence is there that the Earth’s climate is changing?

Some of the observations that indicate that the Earth’s climate is changing recorded by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) are:

Widespread decreases in glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise.

  • Eleven of the twelve warmest years since 1850 occurred between 1996 and 2006. Average global temperatures have risen by about 0.74°C between 1906 and 2005. The temperature increase is widespread over the globe but is greater at higher northern latitudes.
  • Sea levels have also increased in this period. Since 1961 the average rate has been 1.8 mm per year but since 1993 this has increased to 3.1 mm per year. The total rise for the 20th century is estimated to be about 0.17 m.
  • The average amount of water vapour in the atmosphere has increased since the 1980s over land and the ocean and this is consistent with the fact that warmer air can hold more water than colder air.
  • Mountain glaciers and snow cover have declined on average in both the northern and southern hemispheres. Widespread decreases in glaciers and ice caps have contributed to sea level rise. Satellite data since 1978 show that annual average arctic sea extent has shrunk by 2.7% per decade although larger decreases in the summer have occurred (average of 7.4 per cent).
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Eat Well

Oh good, another member who loves to garden and has absurd opinions about politics and science.

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jama7(6)

tapla(Mid-MI z-5b-6a)3 hours ago

It seems weather alarmists have been inaccurate in the extreme at looking into the future.

____________

Right. A few guys who were on the right track but off on their dates compared to 97% of the worlds climate scientists who now concur. You do see the difference right?

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lurker111

Why read the First Assessment Report from 1990, when the science around this has progressed by leaps and bounds since then?

That's where the answer to her question is. Always start with the first chapter. Please, continue reading.

97%...lol

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PRO
tapla(Mid-MI z-5b-6a)

The idea that 'consensus' can somehow settle science is absurd, one that is foreign to all real scientists because consensus has absolutely nothing to do with science. Consensus is the stock and trade of politicians, and in science - irrelevant. Historically, most of the more famous scientists are famous for the simple fact they broke with consensus, leaving it behind as refuge for swindlers and mischief makers.

Science isn't a belief system, and its findings aren't and never will be contingent on consensus. Science is what it is, and what it is, is truth. How can truth be had when politics are invested in the process and the outcome? Garbage in - garbage out.

At one time, the unanimous consensus was that the world was flat - and the relationship of that consensus to truth was ......?

And just for fun - the review process as it relates to “global warming” or "climate change" or whatever today's catchy phrase happens to be is a joke. The influence of personal and political agendas (including the claim of consensus) have done more to shape the pseudo science of global warming than science itself. If it sounds good, use it - we'll worry about what to say if/when we get caught.

Al

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

What's going on here, still "debating" manmade climate change? The only 2 groups on the planet that are still in denial (or rather stalling) are the fossil fuel industry and the gop. They got what they wanted, delay, delay, delay until it's too late and proclaim that we'll just have to live with it. Mission Accomplished!. Carry on......414 ppm CO2 and still accumulating.....

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jama7(6)

There's lots of proof, data from scientists that this IS human caused. Why don't you deniers prove it's not?? You're the minority so proof's on you.

Consensus at 97% is rather convincing no matter what your take is. These are peer reviewed, intensely scutinized studies.

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Stan Areted

There's lots of proof, data from scientists that this IS human caused. Why don't you deniers prove it's not?? You're the minority so proof's on you.

Hardly.

A mob is always right because there's more torch carriers?

That's no logic, that's a stupid proposal.

The OP illustrated all these "scientists" and their predictions and dire warnings.

Fools all.

But there is big money to be made, and for those that are so insecure they need to feel superior to others, there's the "deniers" and/or "questioners" to harass and insult.

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patriciae_gw(07)

It is not true that the unanimous consensus was that the earth was flat. Facts are that since scientists existed they believed the earth was round but could not prove it.

In any scenario of global climate change you have to take into consideration the warming of the oceans. We have a lot of ocean.

People who do not believe that humans are causing global climate change while believing the climate is changing are peculiar people I think. If the climate changes regardless of why we still have to deal with it. We are getting close to eight billion humans on earth and don't keep track of animal life. A look at one of those presentations of what happens when the oceans rise will tell you that practically every major city on earth will flood since if they aren't on the ocean they are on rivers and rivers will back up when the oceans rise and arable land tends to be lowlands and they will all be under water and other such issues that make warmer winters not be such a point of humor.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

There’s big money to made from continuing on with the status quo too.

Is making money on “green” technologies and efforts that lead to greater sustainability somehow inferior to making money by ripping apart the earth and squandering the necessities of life?

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jama7(6)

But there is big money to be made, and for those that are so insecure they need to feel superior to others, there's the "deniers" and/or "questioners" to harass and insult."

The BIG MONEY has already been made by fossil fuels, a SUBSIDIZED industry that takes our tax $$ and is the last industry that needs it. Nothing has corrupted this country, devastated this country more and is continuing to do so than that industry. Why don't you turn your wrath on them?

"Insecure"? Yes, we are so needy that out of everything available to us, we choose to harass climate deniers on online forums. Where do you pull this stuff from???

Let's lay aside the cause for a moment. We should do NOTHING about it?? Do any of you people have kids or grandkids?? It would seem not.

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lurker111

Consensus at 97% is rather convincing no matter what your take is.

The question asked was "Is climate change real and could man be the cause". I find it hard to believe that 3% said no. That should be 100% yes. Meaningless question for AGW science.

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Kitchenwitch111

It’s mostly Republicans who don’t believe in the climate crisis because, like everything to them, if it doesn’t personally affect them, it does not matter. If it includes change, they want nothing to do with it. If it might inconvenience them, it doesn’t need to be done. If it might cost them money, forget it. So much easier to deny it’s happening at all.

The Republican Party is not the future.

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JodiK

This: "Not understanding the difference between climate and weather seems to be the driving factor in climate change denial."

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lurker111

Weather is real. Climate is a statistic.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

I can only presume that people who deny the very existence of the concept of “climate” have never traveled farther from home than a couple of hundred miles.

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