You and what army...

Annie Deighnaugh

Now trump is blocking sondland from testifying before congress....couldn't be because he knows too much and would tell all would it?

So congress, what's your next step? Are you going to add this to a charge of contempt of Congress? Are you going to shrug and say, "Oh well?" Or are you going to enforce the subpoena or have sondland's butt thrown in jail? If so, who and what army is going to do it?


I think we've perhaps run into the final flaw in the Constitution which trump & barr are exploiting to the fullest.

SOS

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woodnymph2_gw

It's beyond discouraging. And Moscow Mitch is not going to fold, either, it appears.

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Iris GW

It appears we've got lots of changes to make in 2021.

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Kathy

Sondland talked to trump about it on a phone all in Sept. Trump doesn’t want any truth to come out.

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lurker111

What's the point of these hearings? The crats need to call people names and denigrate their names? Do they think if they discredit everyone (in their minds) that they will be free from their crimes? It's just to pacify their paranoid minds?

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patriciae_gw(07)

We have been depending on a gentleman's agreement for far too long. Our Constitution is written very sparsely and though the framers had no real illusions of the probity of the individual they believed that as a whole men would act with integrity which would force the individual to do so or face being booted. This system can break down and ours has.

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Joaniepoanie

lurker111

What's the point of these hearings? The crats need to call people names and denigrate their names? Do they think if they discredit everyone (in their minds) that they will be free from their crimes? It's just to pacify their paranoid minds?

*********

Trump’s need to call people names and denigrate their names? Does he think if he discredits everyone (in his mind) that he will be free from his crimes? It's just to pacify his paranoid mind?

Fixed it.

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Carro

What's leaked of Sondland's texts is very much in Trump's favor.

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Carro

Why is the Intel Committee dragging people in?

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Iris GW

Then why not let him be interviewed?

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Andie

Carro, you can't be serious. You need to dig a little deeper. Reread the whistleblower's complaint and maybe you'll start to see the dots connecting.

If you don't feel like reading you can listen to it here:

https://www.penguinrandomhouseaudio.com/blog/free-audiobook-listen-the-whistle-blowers-complaint/

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

What's leaked of Sondland's texts is very much in Trump's favor.

Those must be very selective leaks since the State Department is now blocking his testimony.

Wonder when Trump actually told them to block the appearance?

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foodonastump

I’ll admit I’m not paying close attention to the details. But my TV happens to be stuck on CNN as I’m out of AAA batteries for the remote and several times today I’ve heard the anchors pressing their D guests about holding a vote. If they actually give an answer it’s something lame like “because we don’t have to.”

So my question: If it’s been tradition to hold the vote, and if the R’s keep coming back with “there’s no inquiry because the House didn’t vote for one,” then why don’t they? Or at least, why won’t they give an honest answer as to why they won’t?

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foodonastump

More evidence that there’s an uncomfortable answer to they question. Next?

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Kathy

Pelosi is not going to be rushed just because that would be favorable to Trump. He can just hold onto his stable genius and obey the laws. He is the one stalling about turning over info he claims will be all aboveboard.

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foodonastump

Well one answer disappeared.

Sorry Kathy, not buying it. Are there not enough votes? How many are needed?

ETA what is the advantage to giving Trump both time and an excuse?

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HU9999

Innocent Trump won't let people testify. And Trump supporters defend not letting people testify when they're convinced Trump is innocent. And this makes sense to people?

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cattyles

The Repubs want the vote because they think it will hurt the Dems in red and purple areas. My guess is she’s waiting until more people have had time to pay attention (ahem, FOAS).

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lurker111

They don't get to testify. The house crats just attack their credibility. Everyone knows whats going on.

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chase_gw

FOAS my guess is that they really don' t know why Pelosi is resisting. I think she is protecting them from having to defend her reasons, by simply saying it is her right , thus not showing her hand to Trump.

I think her reasons are more complicated than we might think.

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lurker111

Trump has committed no crime. She can't impeach him. She's just playing the left for the fools that they are. Trump should just ignore the left. They serve no purpose.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I was going to say and forgot to do so that this is what a constitutional crisis looks like.

Nancy Pelosi is within her rights constitutionally just as Mitch McConnell is. these are powerful positions. Objecting to how they use that duly elected power is not going to change anything. It is our system and squawking wont help or we would have a different Supreme court justice than Gorsuch. Precedence can count for a lot but it is not law.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Pelosi will easily impeach trump and recent polls are rapidly going her way. trump has crossed the impeachment line in all 4 main food groups.

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Annie Deighnaugh

The dems are very happy to do the inquiry and bring more of the American people along with them before they vote for impeachment. They are happy to watch trump rack up more contempt of congress charges. They are happy to watch as trump continues to impeach himself. They are happy to see what else the MSM can come up with for them on all that's going on in ukraine and elsewhere. And why not wait until they see how the appeals court rules on trump's tax returns...that may reveal some interesting stuff too.

As the pressure on trump increases and he reacts by doing even crazier stuff as the adults who once tempered him flee the wh -- such as the turkey/syria debacle -- the dems are watching the gop get ever more horrified. Like a snowball rolling down hill, they are gathering gop members who are willing to say, "enough".

So there is *no* rush. Rather it is a deliberative and thoughtful process as it is so serious. The only ones who are in a rush are the gop to get it over with and put it behind them before the election. Get it over with before any more facts and truth about the level of corruption in the administration gets out.

But the dems have *every* reason to want to drag this process out, hopefully so it never even gets a senate vote until after the election. Having the investigations and charges and growing scandal hanging over trump's head only helps them.

The last thing the dems want is for the house to impeach, the senate refuse to charge and trump take that flag into the next election.


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Annie Deighnaugh

patriciae, part of the problem was the founding fathers were of an era and a culture that relied a lot on shame. They never thought someone so shameless would get near the office. Unfortunately they were wrong.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Pelosi's call for a vote on impeachment inquiry will not satisfy those carrying water for Trump.

After the inquiry vote, there will be other points of contention that the GOP will obsess on -- we're looking at a never-ending list of demands from the GOP as they try to contain damage. At least never-ending until GOP leadership decides to cut Trump loose to try to save the Republican brand.

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cattyles

Exactly.

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numbersjunkie

Trump has committed no crime. She can't impeach him.

LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL.

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Carro

Andie

Carro, you can't be serious. You need to dig a little deeper. Reread the whistleblower's complaint and maybe you'll start to see the dots connecting.

You can't be serious!!! We are so far past this 2nd-hand hearsay, after the release of the phone call transcript and leaking of so many texts and hours and hours of testimony!

That dude's vapors, memorialized in his ham-fisted "complaint", are not even relevant any longer. Hence the Democrats moving on from him.

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Carro

Pelosi can compose all she wants. No one has to dance.

She can get serious and take the vote and show this isn't political. Until then, she can take her frozen face and pound sand.

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jerzeegirl(9b)

I think we've perhaps run into the final flaw in the Constitution which trump & barr are exploiting to the fullest.

I happen to agree with this. The toothpaste is out of the tube and there is no way of getting it back in. Trump will try to stay in office as long as he can because he will be prosecuted once he leaves. If he doesn't allow government employees to obey lawful subpoenas, then what makes anyone think that he will leave when he is supposed to.

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Kathy

Why should Pelosi force a vote that is not required to put some members that are in swing states on the spot? It isn’t necessary and she is not going to take orders from trump just because he has a fit. He needs to cooperate not obstruct. It just another form of stalling and transferring blame.

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HU9999

Trump has committed no crime. She can't impeach him.

Wrong. You might benefit from a refresh on your understanding (or lack thereof) of The Constitution.

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Andie

We are so far past this 2nd-hand hearsay, after the release of the phone call transcript and leaking of so many texts and hours and hours of testimony!


Not an ounce of truth there and you know it.

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Carro

Andie, my God, we have the transcript! That wasn't supposed to happen! We were supposed to be moved by the WB's account of that "crazed" and "frightening" phone call which left his informer "visibly shaken".

LOL, what in that phone call would give anyone such vapors! Was some fainting damsel listening in on the other end?

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HU9999

We don't have the transcript. Not sure why you keep repeating that non-truth.

We have the part of the call the WH wanted released.

And no matter how much you belittle others, the part we know is the POTUS asked a foreign leader to investigate his political rival. That's a fact and no amount of deflection will change it.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Trump has committed no crime.

No, he's not committed no crime...he's committed many! And he's violated his oath of office and proven himself unfit. So many reasons to impeach...so little time.

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roxanna7

^^^^ Annie, I want a t-shirt with that comment: "So many reasons to impeach...so little time"!!!

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marquest(PA zone 6)

The polls are showing Repubs support has increased in the "Impeach and Remove" question. I am sure it is the Repub college educated suburban people that voted Democrat in the mid-term. Showing once again why tRump said he likes his poorly educated.

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soupgirl53

Polling indicates that support for the House's impeachment investigation is growiing and we can see Trump cracking under the strain on national TV. It is pretty clear that Nancy Pelosi knows what she is doing.

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Ann

"I’ll admit I’m not paying close attention to the details. But my TV happens to be stuck on CNN as I’m out of AAA batteries for the remote and several times today I’ve heard the anchors pressing their D guests about holding a vote. If they actually give an answer it’s something lame like “because we don’t have to.”

So my question: If it’s been tradition to hold the vote, and if the R’s keep coming back with “there’s no inquiry because the House didn’t vote for one,” then why don’t they? Or at least, why won’t they give an honest answer as to why they won’t?"

Exactly! I've also been watching MSNBC fairly often lately and have noticed anchors there pressing their D guests with the same question. It's the same answer every single time.

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Carro

Ann, Dems want all the perks, power and access of an impeachment inquiry, but don't want the commitment.

Trump's basically saying, "put a ring on it".

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Ann

Cattyles, thanks for the linked CNN article. Interesting!

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soupgirl53

Nancy Pelosi does not have to care what Donald Trump, the target of the impeachment inquiry has to say about it. I would not expect Trump to like the fact he is the subject of the inquiry but if he wants to get it over with as quickly as possible, cooperation would be the sensible course of action.

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Ann

Wow, Annie's rather long post a ways up (with 10 likes) was seriously interesting reading. No hiding Nancy's political game in that comment!

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Ann

Looks like Trey Gowdy might be joining the Trump legal team to work on this impeachment issue.

Great news that Durham is expanding his investigation (I know, off topic, but great news).

Interesting that Mueller was interviewing for the FBI director position, was not chosen, and was appointed as the special investigator the next day! And, Mueller lied about that, saying he was not interviewing for the FBI director position.

Big news day overall!

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petalique

carro—

...but don't want the commitment.

Trump's basically saying, "put a ring on it".

——

You still mixed up. King Dangerous Donald is about commitments? (Trying not to laugh to hard)

How many times did he cheat on his wives? His workers he decided not to pay? His taxes? Wire and insurance and bank fraud. No business interests in Russia <wink> ... His good best people...

I won’t have enough ink to finish listing his voluminous Cheat Sheet.

And, we can all see how committed he IS NOT being to our allies the Kurds who shed a lot of blood fighting ISIS. Trump tells them, “see ya!”and leaves them to be slaughtered by the Turks (positioning their army to do just that as I type. But Dangerous Donald has his real estate interests and other lucrative deals foremost in his morally vacant fat head. And he can’t resist folding toward a thug like Erdogan, Putin, Kim, Xi.

Your false hero is only committed to him$elf.

If trump and the Republicans want things to get moving, they should stop dragging their corrupt feet and stop obstructing congress.

How’s his infrastructure going? His lower drug prices?

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catkinZ8a

News flash:

Those 2018 House Dem's reelections are toast.

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Kathy

From experience I would bet Trump lied before I would believe Mueller lied. One cannot compare to the other.

Over 11,000 lies by Trump means everything he says is a lie.

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whynottryit

If it’s been tradition to hold the vote, and if the R’s keep coming back with “there’s no inquiry because the House didn’t vote for one,” then why don’t they? Or at least, why won’t they give an honest answer as to why they won’t?

--------

There have only been 3 prior impeachment inquiries. Three does not a "tradition" make, imho, nor are we dealing with a "traditional" administration. We have never seen such blatant efforts to avoid an investigation nor have we seen a President thumbing his nose so overtly at the Constitution. Below is an excerpt outlining the three previous processes used in initiating impeachment inquiries.


https://www.lawfareblog.com/premature-primer-how-do-impeachment-proceedings-actually-work


On December 4, 1865, Representative Thaddeus Stevens of Pennsylvania, the ardent abolitionist leading the charge for the 13th Amendment, “introduce[d] a resolution to create a Joint Committee on Reconstruction.” The Joint Committee then introduced its own Resolution urging Johnson’s impeachment, “which passed the House on February 24, 1868, by a vote of 126 to 47.” Only thereafter did the House establish an impeachment committee, which drafted Johnson’s eleven articles of impeachment.

The Nixon and Clinton impeachments involved different precursor legislations, but they buttress the underlying principle; instead of creating a new committee, both Congresses charged the Judiciary Committee to review impeachment. In 1974, House Resolution 803 “[a]uthorize[d] the House Committee on the Judiciary to investigate fully and completely whether sufficient grounds exist for the House of Representatives to impeach President Richard M. Nixon.” Only after the House Judiciary Committee performed its own investigation did the Committee write up articles of impeachment.

On the other hand, the House Judiciary Committee relied on the Starr Report for the substantive investigation of President Clinton’s wrongdoing. Then the House passed House Resolution 581 in 1998, charging:

the Committee on the Judiciary, acting as a whole or by any subcommittee thereof appointed by the chairman . . . to investigate fully and completely whether sufficient grounds exist for the House of Representatives to exercise its constitutional power to impeach [President Clinton and] report to the House of Representatives such resolutions, articles of impeachment, or other recommendations as it deems proper.

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Andie

Over 11,000 lies by Trump means everything he says is a lie.


And his supporters repeat them ad nauseam.

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cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)(zone 7, Northern VA)

Just one correction. Impeachment is the charge. The Senate will vote to convict or acquit.

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