Organic matter even needed if soil composition is perfect? No worms...
barplants123 barplants123
2 years ago
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toxcrusadr
2 years agogardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
2 years agoRelated Discussions
What types of organic matter will improve soil drainage?
Comments (9)Plants cannot uptake any nutrients from the soil if there is no moisture there to move those nutrients, so an evenly moist soil is one that contains some moisture, not a lot, so those nutrients can move. A soil that is wet will also hinder the movement of nutrients because the plants roots also need some air, which too much moisture will replace, to get those nutrients into the plants. An evenly moist soil is one where if you take a handfull and squeeze it tightly it will ball up but if you poke it with a finger it will fall apart, a good, workable soil. Well drained means that water will move out of that soil in a timely manner, excess water will not stay in the soil excluding air for very long. Many soils that lack sufficient levels of organic matter will either not drain well at all, holding water in the soil for days, or will drain too quickly, in less than an hour or two, and then will appear and feel dry. In sandy soils organic matter will hold both moisture and nutrients in the soil and in clay soils that same organic matter will open up the soil so excess eater drains away adn the nutrients that often get tightly locked onto the caly soil particles are released for the plants to use....See MoreAdding soil blends to improve organic matter to subsoil (New Land
Comments (16)Norm - hope you pick up on this .. hopefully it's helpful for your project. I would have included this for you earlier, but I had this info stashed and it took some hunting for me to re-find it. For any soil that goes into landscaping there are three classes to know: bank soil, loose soil, and compacted soil. "Bank soil" is soil in it's naturally settled state, without machine or human compaction. An open lot, untouched, would have a bulk density of bank soil. Dig that soil up and the bulk density decreases as it becomes broken and aerated. That is loose soil. Take soil and compact it, like running machinery over it, it becomes compacted soil. The typical relationships for bulk density are bank soil is the reference = 1.0, loose soil expands and has 80% of the bulk density of bank soil, and compacted soil has a density about 1.05-1.1 of bank soil. Why is this important? A big part of permanent landscaping is establishing a stable and permanent grade. You want stability after installation. When you buy soil for a landscape you get loose soil. But when you are filling and grading to native settled soil you have to match surrounding bank soil for grade and drainage. That means for a soil comparable to the untouched surrounding soil you will actually need to overfill and gade with loose soil to allow for the settling. Typically by about 10-20% for topsoil. The soil supplier should be able to guide you on how much. The danger is that if you don't allow for that natural settling, you will end up with a low area where you had filled as it later settles, and if that area is planted for permanence there is little you can do without upsetting the plants. A part of the consideration is the filling soil's organic content. The more of that there is, the more the soil will settle over time - it cannot be directly replaced in permanent landscapes. You can only strive to maintain it via top dressing / mulch in those permanent grade and planted areas. About as good as you can maintain that way is ~ 5% organic matter. If you start with a higher OM content, then you need to allow for that much additional settling over time. This post was edited by TXEB on Fri, May 17, 13 at 3:34...See MoreCan you mix organic matter directly into the soil?
Comments (19)ok, this is kinda sorta related, but it might be more appropriate in the pests forum, but I'd like to pick the soil experts brains first. I'm considering doing some lasagna layering this fall in the beds I've created for the first time this year. Everything is growing pretty well this year, lil chlorosis in the squash. I'll be adding some iron, magnesium, and nitrogen individually to try to figure out what the deficiency may be. Everything is growing in ammended clay soil that has 2 years of grass clippings and chipped wood added and decomposed before topping with aged compost (2-3 year old pile) and some mushroom manure (prob 2-3 inches combined). So, here's my dilema. I'm trying to stay organic. I've been insecticidal soaping cucumber beetles, squishing squash bugs (not too many, actually) and I've performed surgery on 4 pumpkin vines to dig out the squash vine borers and chop them up with my exacto knife (gross lil buggers). Everything I've read about controlling such pests is to "make sure to clean up the garden in the fall so that the pests are less likely to overwinter there and hatch in the spring to infect your new plants..." Isn't sheet composting just creating the perfect place for the lil squash bugs etc. to take up residence and stay all snuggley warm over the winter waiting for the spring feast of my seedlings? Thoughts and perspectives are most welcome :) -Veronica (sorry if I'm hijacking the posting ... I can repost as a stand alone question if y'all want.)...See MoreDo I need more organic matter? (Soil test results)
Comments (22)In addition to tox's very good comments, let me add this. We tend to think of stuff like compost, composted manures, chopped leaves, grass clippings, etc. as organic matter when they should really be considered as organic material. There is a significant difference. The organic 'materials' will continue to break down and decompose over time and shrink as much as 90% in volume before they actually become organic 'matter'. Organic material is very temporary and changeable - organic matter is pretty stable in the soil. It is the relatively permanent and stable levels of organic matter that soil labs test for (if they do that type of testing). So a 50-50 mix of soil and compost is unlikely to be an excessive amount of OM......once it fully breaks down - which will happen quite rapidly, usually within a single growing season - it should put you somewhere in the 5-8% range that is most desirable. Based on how this process actually works, I would argue that it is pretty near impossible to have too much organic matter!! I wrote about this in another thread and included this LINK that you might find useful and explains this concept very well. btw, I would not be concerned about adding any rabbit manure - the level of potassium it contains is negligible....See MoreEmbothrium
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gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)