Very valid complaints. There's more wrong here than just tile spacing. You should not be seeing the red in between tiles, there should have been full coverage with mortar instead it looks like your installer is just doing spot bonding.

Thanks @AJCN, reading your story was very helpful. The spot setting thread just seems to go to a product page for WonderBoard Light Backer Board...

yeah, I wouldn't be happy with that. why didn't he do the floor first and bring down the wall tiles to cover the cut side of the pennies? that would have solved that issue.

Just like they did here. see how they fall under the tile? (or appear to) perfectly straight too.

Penny rounds (or any small mosaics like that) need to laid in a staggered pattern (instead of soldiering the sheets in straight line) to avoid the grid pattern. Tell him the slope has nothing to do with it.

as for the niche. again,,pennies go on first, and then surrounding tile is brought up against it.

This one above is done perfectly. absolutely perfect layout. nice and straight edges, the ledge is slanted downward, no grid lines, beautiful grout work. This took some good planning. look at all the tiles outside of the niche. no small cuts. the niche was planned out ahead of time and placed so that it fell between full tiles all around the outside edge. Gorgeous work.

this one too. no small cuts of tile on the outside.

his cuts are messy, crooked and don't match up on the outer edges.

BTW, what is going around your niche? is there some type of edging?

This one has a metal liner (Schluter)

this floor has obvious grid marks. and no, grout will not hide it. the tiler did not stagger

compared to these two, which are perfectly done.

So, as you can see, it can be done.

NO, the cracked tile around the niche has to go. You didn't post a pic from way back so zooming in closely is always going to show imperfections. I'm guessing he didn't place the niche perfectly inside fully laid tiles and you have sliver cuts going around the box.

as for setting those large tiles, tile standards are no less than 95% coverage. in other words, he can't 'spot' set it by putting large blobs of thinset on the back of the tile. he needs thinset on the wall, and needs to 'butter' the entire tile as well.

Take a few pictures of the work from a normal viewing distance so we can get some perspective. post them here in the comments so we don't have to go back and forth to view them

I’ll try to find the right link. TCNA handbook for tile installations says The industry standard for tile coverage in a wet area is a minimum of 95%. Meaning 95% of the back of the tile has to be covered with the bonding material. Spot bonding obviously violates that industry standard. Since your tile person did that, it’s a red flag that there’s probably a whole bunch of other stuff wrong underneath the tile, meaning you should be very suspect of the waterproofing. Make sure to talk to them about that in the meeting.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ceramictilefoundation.org/blog/eliminate-spot-bonding-ceramic-tile-installation%3Fhs_amp%3Dtrue

Said it previously and will say it again. When a tile pro allows that sort of finished product to be seen and makes excuses why it looks like that, and or thinks it is good, that leaves me with zero confidence that the work that cannot be seen is correct.

Well, he’s priced right to give the “ old world hand set look“. That’s an incredibly low price for a tile job. That should have be your first warning. The absolute bottom line price for a quality simple no niche tile shower is 5K. Penny rounds are more. Mitered niches are more. Everything you wanted basically is more. There’s a lot of tile in this bath. Looks like a 10K start price for that much tile. $600 won’t even cover the materials needed to prep a shower for tile.

You need to post in progress pictures, and find out about the waterproofing system. I’m betting there is none.

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers

Its pretty bad. I wouldnt accept it, and I wouldnt want him to fix it either.

Jason:

You got exactly what you paid for. For $600.00, that's a fantastic tile job.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC, you might want to read the post a bit better next time. $600.00 was to prepare the shower pan (the cement work). Total tile cost is $5500.00 (not including tile or grout).

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Stop work.

Have meeting.

Ask for re-do.

After he tries and fails, fire him.

Ir, if he refuses re-do, he has quit.

Ask for full refund, plus $$ for ruined tile.

Then you will have to hire a new contractor.

Sorry this has happened, but it’s good you are aware of it now and stopping it before your house gets further damaged from leaks, mold, etc. Also spot bonded can lead to de-bonding (aka tiles falling off). My kids sometimes use my master shower. Imaging de-bonding.

I would be embarrassed to put my name on that work in someone else's home. I certainly wouldn't expect money for doing work like that. The work shown in these pictures is sloppy and looks like it might have been done by a child trying to hurry up and finish up his work so he can go play with his friends before it gets too dark.

Any tile pro knows that mosaic tile should not show any indications as to how the sheets were laid out. Even if the tiles have to be pulled off the sheet and set by hand, the spacing needs to be consistent. It is true that a sloped surface will not have absolutely identical spacing between each individual tile but the tiny differences between adjacent tiles will be imperceptible from a few feet away. Every tile job has inperfections but the number and seriousness of the issues should be commensurate with the price...looks to me like a second or third tile job ever for a DIYer with a $59 wet saw and a $10 blade.

A true pro will refuse a job where he does not believe the chosen materials and preexisting conditions will yield a good result. It is a ridiculous approach to screw up the work and then blame the site conditions, the materials or the tools.

Wasn't done by a professional. Sadly, people can hang a shingle and get a contractors license without experience and qualifications in every aspect of remodeling, in this case tile installation. I suspect he's a guy who does lots of different things, not a dedicated tile contractor? Regardless, consumers should not accept that shoddy work as it perpetuates a problem with unskilled labor performing work that is not to industry standards and it lowers expectations for the consumer.

We keep supporting this type of labor and our housing market will fall apart for over reasons. This is an uneducated inexperienced so called tile person who should not be installing tile. It is just such a insult to real professionals when people think anybody can simply do their job because HGTV pushes that narrative.

Fire him or her and whatever the losses are they are less than what they would cost you if you finished the job. There is NO WAY to pretend that person could ever produce quality work. Sorry, but that will be saving you in the long run.

There is nothing wrong with prefabbed shower walls if they fit your budget better. I would rather see a well done prefab install than this mess. HD has very nice prefabs that even mimic tile.

So the work is really bad, for sure. The grout lines are bad, the lippage is bad (different heights of tiles) and the niche is really bad. It all sucks - and this person is in way over their head. As others have mentioned, if the part you can see looks this bad, I would be very concerned about the construction / water proofing.

But I also suspect that the tile isn't great. It looks uneven, edges not true, etc. I'm also going to bet that the tile was selected disconnected from the actual application.

A good tile job starts with straight/square walls, and includes the right tile for the type of job.

In order to do a niche right, you also have to have the tile selected and laid out BEFORE you place the niche - otherwise you end up with small cuts. You also have to have the corner edges decided and the proper tile trim pieces or a metal corner.

A good contractor is going to know how all of these things fit together. They are going to guide tile selection, layout, etc. for the entire job. You can't build a surround, buy tiles, then tell someone to install them and expect the type of work that you see in the examples. Again, I'm not excusing the work that was done - but I also suspect that the process was flawed from the beginning.

Consumers are getting exactly what the marketplace says they've demanded. During the last recession, tile persons were the first to be fired and the last to be rehired. Young people saw this, they aren't stupid, and want no part of such a cyclical industry as construction. Consumers want the lowest possible prices. Illegal aliens are perfect exploitation for that demand. There are virtually no unions in residential construction.

When there is social status for the trades (you want your daughter to marry a tile setter), good pay, benefits, a future, and protection from unfair illegal alien competition, consumers will again have a good selection of competent tile setters from which to choose.

Considering the lack of political action and the constant demand for cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, from consumers, I won't be holding my breath. Consumers are getting exactly what they deserve; the marketplace is never wrong.

Consumers have a very good selection of competent tile setters. It is unfortunate that there are still unqualified individuals doing this work and it is unfortunate that the consumer needs to vet the tile contractors carefully as a result. Our industry is making tremendous strides in the advancement of the trade. More tile contractors involved in education, certification and professional associations than ever before. I recommend that homeowners refer to the National Tile Contractors Association as one source to vet a potential contractor for their job. If a GC is involved, ask the GC for the credentials of the tile subcontractor they use. Make sure he/she is a dedicated and experienced tile professional, is actively involved in on-going training, and has a solid portfolio of verifiable projects and customer testimonials. Start here:https://www.tile-assn.com/page/whyhire

The low price as the sole criteria for choosing workers is always going to be with us. People want something for nothing. They’ll con themselves into believing they can get a luxury bath on a shoestring budget, and never do their due diligence if they hear the low price. They’re more comfortable selling themselves the lie. They don’t ask themselves what they AREN'T getting with Chuck in a Truck. Well, they aren’t getting competence. As illustrated vividly above.

It’s all nurtured by all of the TV renovation shows stating ridiculous numbers for their projects. 3K for a whole bath redo! 9K for a kitchen! A whole house redo and walls removed for 50K!

Additionally in all those HGTV shows, they show the TV personality laying tile, etc as if they know it all. (Hint: They don't)

Joseph Corlett, LLC

I have to disagree with you somewhat.

I agree that there isn't the social prestige with any of the trades. That's too bad and shouldn't be that way. I also agree that the cyclical nature of building has done a lot of damage to trades people. People often don't value the skill that goes into something like this. The barrier to entry is low and there are many people who call themselves trades people who don't have the requisite skill.

That said, the retail consumer has very little real information from which to make an educated decision. Price is not an accurate indicator. The answer is always "more money"... In this case, the consumer should have gotten something much better for $5.500 in labor. I've seen the same issue in HVAC and plumbing - where people are charging $125 an hour and don't have the skills.

And don't blame the Mexicans - If you want things done right around here you better hope the crew is Hispanic - esp in roofing, landscaping, fencing and painting.

I do believe that the renovation shows have done a huge dis-service to housing in general. They have driven up the cost of housing with ridiculous "Must haves" while not giving an accurate accounting of the costs or the skill required.

Consumers have a very good selection of competent tile setters.

Who’s the “consumer” in the above statement? The homeowner or the GC? When a homeowner hires a GC, the GC is the one who hires the tile pro. The homeowner doesn’t have control over who he hires.

The only times we’ve had serious issues on renovations are the 2 times we needed to hire a GC. Both times, the GC hired unqualified hacks, presumably to increase their margins. And yes, they were the “premiere” local GCs and the highest bids.

Unless homeowners become GC’s, they really aren’t the consumer, the one choosing/hiring is the consumer, and that is the GC.

We have another factor in price of renos, tiling specifically. Two years ago there were major wildfires just north of us. Last year there were more fires. We have our fingers crossed that we can make it to Thanksgiving without another disaster. Best I can tell 20,000 or more homes burned - in any case, a lot. Many of those homes are being rebuilt as we speak. The need for trades and materials is very high. Guess what? So is the labor cost, whether good quality work or bad.

We built a tile covered fireplace 3 years ago:

We paid $900 for the tile job. Our neighbors have just built their similar fireplace and are getting bids to use the same tile. Not including tile (it's not cheap!) their two bids so far are $3500 and $3600, so our nearly same job for 4x the price. One of those bids is by the same guy who did ours. Supply and demand I guess, but it's a budget killer.

We want to re-do our original 1964 36 x 36 shower. We're picky, so we looked for tilers with training, experience, good references, and good results. We have two quotes in the $10,000 range. There is nothing fancy about that shower job, not even a niche or fussy tile. We expected somewhat high as we're going with a 2-side frameless glass enclosure, not low iron, but yes on Shower Guard. We're re-thinking the whole thing because come on, $10,000+ ? Is "gouging" too strong of a word?

suzanne, is insurance paying for these or did the homeowner get an check from the insurance company because of the damage? If so, that may be why they're charging more.

the $900 you paid was extremely cheap. (he put up cement board too? The only thing missing on yours is some type of metal edging for the borders.

Beth, both fireplaces are normal home reno projects, in our case we bought an older home with a fireplace that was poorly built originally so we did a total do-over on another wall. For the neighbors this a long awaited bottom floor reno, down to the studs, new kitchen and all. Very exciting!

For ours, we built the box and put up the cement board. The FP people came and installed the FP. The tilers just did the 13 x 39 tiles. There is a Schluter edging, you just can't see it well in the photo. The tricky part was getting all those waves to match. Our neighbors are also asking just for the tile, the rest is taken care of.

There is no such thing as "gouging", there is only supply and demand.

We just moved into our new build. One of the first things we did was look at the work of the tiler our GC used. The GC said if we didn't like his work we could use our own tiler. Not only was his work superb but he had his 2 sons working along side him, teaching them the trade. We ended up having one of the sons do our backsplash because of his attention to detail.

It is nice to know a skilled trade is being passed on.

As Joseph said supply and demand. We wanted another small area tiled and we are having to wait 3 months to get back on their schedule.

Not really helpful with your dilemma. Just know that there are good tile people out there.

There are a lot of good tile contractors out there. Just not in each and every location. There are ways of finding them that go beyond personal recommendations from other homeowners who may not really be able to judge if they received an actual quality job on their project.

Most of your better quality tile contractors will belong to an industry association, and/or have certification from industry organizations. The time away from income producing jobs to get that education and certifications is costly. It raises the rates for those weeks that they are available for work. Being industry recognized also allows labor rates to be raised. The overhead costs of running a legitimate small business cannot be emphasized enough. Licensing, insurance, software, memberships, that all adds up.

Great contractors are expensive. Poor contractors are even more expensive. No one wants to do a job twice. Or three times. Usually, someone who has had a disaster goes straight for the cream of the crop to fix it. Some unfortunately, due to costs, end up making the same mistake and hiring based on cost rather than demonstrable knowledge and ability.

This link gets shared a lot. Because it’s things that homeowners don’t know to talk about. The answers determine the difference between a Tile Professional, and a “tile guy”. https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

**UPDATE**

Got a text from the tile guy this morning asking how much the tile cost. Long story short, he's bringing me a check to cover our deposit plus cost of materials. So glad this will soon be over and we can find a good tile person.

Thank you all for your input.

Excellent news! Hopefully the next go round goes much better! Please do check out my link above to help you sort through to find a good pro.

Will do!

And please post once you're shower is redone correctly!

Also make sure to take photos of every step along the way showing how it was done.