More insight into whistle blower...it's all about trump

Annie Deighnaugh

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-communications-with-foreign-leader-are-part-of-whistleblower-complaint-that-spurred-standoff-between-spy-chief-and-congress-former-officials-say/2019/09/18/df651aa2-da60-11e9-bfb1-849887369476_story.html


The whistleblower complaint that has triggered a tense showdown between the U.S. intelligence community and Congress involves President Trump’s communications with a foreign leader, according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

Trump’s interaction with the foreign leader included a “promise” that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted an official in the U.S. intelligence community to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

It was not immediately clear which foreign leader Trump was speaking with or what he pledged to deliver, but his direct involvement in the matter has not been previously disclosed. It raises new questions about the president’s handling of sensitive information and may further strain his relationship with U.S. spy agencies. One former official said the communication was a phone call.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And we know that during the timeframe this phone conversation might have taken place:

a) trump did initiate a phone call with putin

b) trump thereafter pulled over $700 mil from European defense against russia

Now what the phone call was about and with whom is all speculation at this point, but it is curious, no?

What is clear is the willingness of this administration to gut the careful checks and balances built into the Constitution by simply out and out refusing to follow very clear law about how whistleblower complaints need to be handled.

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catkinZ8a

',,,according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter....' WA POO



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Izzy Mn(4)

Can this whistleblower go directly to Congress and can they protect them?

I've wondered what happened with the translator (was that in Helsinki?) and what she/he thinks about what went on. Do they feel safe.

I probably will want to come back and add/edit but not happening.

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heri _ cles

The whistleblower will disclose this, as is his/her right, after fulfilling the requirements of the whistleblower law.

This isn't a big deal until we know what was allegedly promised, by whom and to whom, and whether or not it could be proven. They don't call him Teflon Don for nothing. It won't be easy to catch this guy doing anything that he can be held accountable for.

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Annie Deighnaugh

The larger problem is he will use the excuse that he is the 'declassifier in chief' and he has the power to declassify anything.

I think it is a big deal in that both the whistleblower and the IG agree that this is 'credible' and of 'urgent concern'.

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Joaniepoanie

“ It won't be easy to catch this guy doing anything that he can be held accountable for.”


*******

Because he sends his goons to threaten or worse?

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mtnrdredux_gw

Jee zus.


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Delilah66

He’s used to back room politicking to get what he wants and thinks that since he’s miraculously a politician he can continue with his slimy ways of doing business. Vote no.

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Delilah66

Feline feces.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I can't help but wonder if this is related to the highly placed russian asset that the intelligence agency recently pulled out of russia for fear he'd been outed. He was instrumental in providing info to the intelligence services that it was putin behind the interference in the US election...

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Annie Deighnaugh

The question will be if the whistleblower will come forward...s/he would be required to if the DNI refuses to turn the info over to congress. Apparently s/he works in intelligence and may have many reasons to try and stay under cover.

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Ziemia(6a)

If this becomes a major argument between Congress and the WH - it goes to a court, right?

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Annie Deighnaugh

One would hope, but I don't know. It's getting downright scary because who enforces subpoenas? barr and the justice dept. I have a feeling the sergeant at arms of the congress isn't about to go marching into a gov't building and arrest someone...

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Annie Deighnaugh

I mean, so far no one has done anything about holding trump to account for his defying all congressional subpoenas for anyone who has ever had anything to do with his administration....I would think that'd be grounds for obstruction of justice right there, but congress seems incredibly impotent to do anything about it.

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Annie Deighnaugh

What guarantee do we have that trump will obey a court order? He certainly hasn't when it comes to separating children and detaining them for long periods of time at the border...

When it comes down to it, it will all rest on the military and whether or not they will follow trump's illegal requests or the Constitution.

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Ziemia(6a)

Some background...

Experts are warning that protocols put in place to protect government whistleblowers have been put in serious jeopardy ... as the acting Director of National Intelligence is refusing, despite legal requirements, to share an official internal complaint with Congress.

...

After announcing last Friday that the independent Inspector General of the office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) had alerted him to a whistleblower complaint, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) told Margaret Brennan on CBS's "Face the Nation" Sunday that acting DNI Joseph Maguire was refusing to turn over the complaint because it involved "privileged communications" between people outside the intelligence community.

Maguire also told the chairman that "he is being instructed not to" respond to the committee's subpoena regarding the complaint, Schiff told Brennan.

"This involved a higher authority," the chairman said. "It's a pretty narrow group of people that it could apply to that are both above the DNI in authority and also involve privileged communications.

...

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/18/what-hell-going-here-alarm-raised-trumps-intelligence-director-refuses-give

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maddie260

The truth will eventually come out on this. What then? That, to me, is the scary part. There appear to be no accountable, responsible Rs in the Senate with any integrity. It is party over country.

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whynottryit

How many remember Nixon's impeachment proceedings? I just did a quick refresher on Wikipedia and ran across a number of similarities which oddly make me feel better. At least there is some precedent. Whether this whistleblower plays the role of Deep Throat or not, the Nixon hearings took the than part of a year and several House seats exchanged hands.

For me, the best solution is to vote him out unless proof is incontrovertible of crimes that demand removing him from office. Sharpiegate doesn't quite a Watergate make.

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cattyles

You’d have a point if sharpiegate had anything to do with the reasons trump should be impeached. If trump should not be impeached the word should be removed from our vocabulary and the constitution amended.

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cattyles

Trump makes watergate look like child play.

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heri _ cles

Let's not get too far in front of this before we know what it is. I could even see a scenario where this benefits Trump...i.e.., Trump "promised" that if Iran threatens Israel, he will bomb Iran.

I just want too know who promised what and to whom under what circumstances and whether or not it was a serious promise or something that can be written off as hyperbole. Until then, I will hold off with any further speculation about this.


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whynottryit

Cattyles, my facetious snark apparently did not read well. Of course, that was not an impeachable offense, though it certainly spoke to his integrity. My point was that his shenanigans with the Sharpie did not rise to a Watergate level that could trigger his removal from office and whatever this newest situation may or may not do that. The only conditions I think might turn his base against him are probably not permissible to share here.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I don't think there is anything that will turn trump's base against him...they dismiss, snark, excuse, claim it's humor, fake news, or deny all of the things he's done so far...any one of which would've been enough to tank another presidency (in no particular order):

  • illegally paying hush money to his chippies (Individual 1...the unindicted co-conspirator)
  • doing business with and supporting child molesters (epstein, moore, nader)
  • admitting to various degrees of sexual assault and having charges of the same against him by at least 17 women
  • gaining emoluments, both foreign and domestic, and using the presidency for his personal gain and that of his children and refusing to divest himself of his business interests
  • nepotism
  • defying congressional subpoenas including for everyone ever associated with the WH and claiming privileges for which there is *no* legal basis
  • defying black letter law regarding this whistleblower and the congressional request for his tax returns
  • a campaign/administration filled with scandals around corrupt and incompetent people including his campaign director and personal lawyer who are now doing time, his NSA and other cabinet officials such as price, pruitt, acosta, zinke to name a few, and appointing unqualified people to lifetime judgeships
  • leaving vacancies in critical positions in the administration or filling them with "acting" directors who have had no senatorial vetting or confirmation
  • doing putin's bidding at every turn including turning over security for the US embassy in moscow to russia, weakening european defenses against russia and reducing sanctions on russia for interfering in the US election and standing *with* putin *against US intelligence* on the global stage
  • doing nothing to protect our elections against russian interference and instead weakening/eliminating the agencies that were to protect it while denying that russian interfered or did it to favor him despite all the evidence presented by Mueller and others
  • *waiting for the murderous MBS* to tell him what to do with the "locked and loaded" US military...which *no* president has ever done before
  • dissing our western allies including kicking both our neighbors to the north and south, threatening to pull out of NATO and weakening defenses for Europe against Russia while lauding dictators around the world
  • making insane statements like people getting cancer from windmills or threatening to nuke hurricanes or that lightbulbs make him look orange
  • 12,000 lies and counting including a new healthcare system to cover everyone at lower costs or building a wall that Mexico will pay for, or that China pays for the trade war
  • obstruction of justice as clearly laid out in the Mueller report and admitted to by lewandowski most recently
  • trade wars that are hurting the US economy and consumers with no stated purpose or goals while real trade issues go unaddressed...or ripping up nafta and replacing it with something just like nafta and taking credit for it
  • exploding deficits of over $1 trillion for a tax cut which benefits the wealthy, creates no new jobs, and does nothing to address the decline of the middle class. Instead the tax cuts people might enjoy are diminished each year and become tax *increases* by 2027
  • violating Constitutional amendments #1, #5, #14...that we know of
  • allowing inhumane treatment of families and children to continue at the border *because it is their policy* to increase suffering as a deterrent which has even led to death
  • security breaches such as giving code level information to the russians, using unsecured phones, private servers, trump business servers and holding open air strategy sessions at mar-a-lago
  • claiming not to be a racist despite all the racist comments he's made, calling white nationalists fine people and filling his administration with racists like bannon, miller and gorka
  • running fraudulent businesses such as trump U, and being found guilty in court of it as well as having to shut down his foundation for using it illegally for personal gain and to avoid taxes
  • perverting the Justice Department to be his own personal police force instead of allowing it to impartially follow the law and the constitution including appoint barr as his personal enforce and purging the fbi of anyone associated with the russian investigation

I'm sure I've missed some. These are exactly the kinds of things that people feared of a trump presidency and why millions around the world turned out to protest the day after his inauguration.

Unfortunately this is the one place where the trump presidency did not disappoint...

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socks(10a)

That he has any supporters is baffling. I understand the gop is holding its nose from the swamp’s stench to get those judicial nominations.


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cattyles

Whynot, I knew you were being sarcastic about sharpiegate. It was more the watergate comparison that shocked me. We’ve become desensitized from being bombarded with things like sharpiegate. The volume is overwhelming and exhausting and that is in trump’s favor. Becoming dismissive is a sign that “normal” is being slowly changed.

I’m not even considering this most recent incident because we really don’t know what happened (if anything) yet. Our founding fathers would be appalled that trump was not already impeached. Our country will never be the same. The bar for integrity is forever lowered.

Thank you, Annie, for providing the list. I always appreciate your ability to keep up with it all.


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chase_gw

There is some speculation that he promised Putin he would withdraw support from Ukraine. He did withdraw millions in defense spending from the Ukraine several weeks ago.

I'm convinced the truth will out but Trump will do his best to prevent it......no doubt with Barr's assistance.

Does explain Coates departure and Trump's refusal to appoint the assistant Director.....too honest.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I still think the timing is suspicious with the withdrawal of that russian asset to save his life...

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chase_gw

Annie, wasn't that asset withdrawn months and months ago? Evidently this is something that happened in the last 5 weeks. Maybe it was just reported recently but happened a while back.......but it is described as urgent which makes me think it's is fairly recent.

Pure speculation on my part.

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ohiomom

The Trump syndicate takes it's orders directly from Moscow.


America is no longer a superpower but is now a colony of Russia.

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dandyfopp

Given the way Donnie undermines the interests of The United States on the regular, in your face, in public, at home, on foreign soil, on social media, on planes trains and in automobiles... excluding our press for Russian press, no translator, letting autocrats roll in and attack protestors on American soil, Khashoggi, for the entire world to witness...anyone really doubt that he would pick up the phone and betray our interests privately to any paying customer?


Let me amend... anyone who doesn't have their brain pickling in Donnie Dew?


A phone call is easier for the old guy than twitter, no struggling with his fat finger syndrome and hilarious spelling errors, he gets a live infusion of flattery from whomever is rolling the US for all its worth, and it can be done while he is laid up in bed, on a special executive phone line! Woo








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margaux

The Russian asset was withdrawn in June 2017, a month after Trump entertained the Russians in the Oval Office.

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chase_gw

That's why I don't think that is what this is about.

From everything I can gather the DNI has absolutely NO statutory right to block this information coming to Congress.

Does anyone know if the whistle blower can come forward to Congress on his own...without DNI approval ?

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Annie Deighnaugh

Thanks margaux...I didn't realize they'd pulled him so long ago.

According to Lawrence O'Donnell last night there are a number of steps that have to be completed...some of which are already done ... before the whistleblower can go directly to congress. I don't believe it includes approval of the DNI.

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Annie Deighnaugh

And, IIRC, the IG cannot go to Congress directly with the info, but the whistleblower can...

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chase_gw

Interesting, thanks Annie........hopefully he/she will have the courage to do what the acting DNI cannot seem to bring himself to do........ the right thing, which is to abide by the law and act in the best interests of the country,

I smell Barr all over this one...the man is a disgrace to his profession and has done irreparable harm to his reputation.

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loonlakelaborcamp(3 A/B)

I see the tin foil hats are quite in style!

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cattyles

What do you think it is the whistleblower was so disturbed about, loonlakelaborcamp? This isn’t fake news. A hearing just ended.

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Izzy Mn(4)

Barr is not Trump's personal lawyer. I keep saying that to remind of that fact. Will he, Barr, be charged with cover up when everything starts falling apart for Trump the Puppet. He seems to be protecting the Trump too much.

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cattyles

That was very tactfully stated, Izzy.

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Andie



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marquest(PA zone 6)

It will come out. History has proved what will happen. Too many people are involved it will come out. Everything happens for a reason. If nothing else our system is being tested things can now be corrected. At least we are being tested by someone that does not have a high IQ. What is protecting him now are the people around him.

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cattyles

Well said, marquest. Trump has done a good job of highlighting weaknesses in our system that before now were not exploited.

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woodnymph2_gw

I wish I did not believe this, but so long as Barr is in power, I think nothing serious will be done about Trump's egregious actions.

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Andie

Now they're saying the complaint involved multiple acts, not just a single instance.

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dandyfopp

Zelensky defends relationship with US after Trump accused of pushing Ukraine to meddle in 2020 election

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-ukraine-joe-biden-military-aid-zelensky-kiev-a9111106.html

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chase_gw

It would not surprise me one bit if Barr, pushed by Trump, releases a "version" of the Horowitz report NOW that makes the Intelligence Agency look bad....all to make this issue go away. Not the complete report just some "notes" .

I worry that there are no men and women of honour left in the Administration....Wray excepted. However, maybe it will prompt people like Coates, Bolton and others ...maybe even Horowitz to go public.

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cattyles

That’s pretty much what Phil Mudd said last night.

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Andie

So the only hope for exposure is for the whistleblower to risk all and come forward. Don't see that happening.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Another day, another trump scandal.......and some people thought that Obama was a tyrant.

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Ziemia(6a)

Tonight there's info that Trump is going after the IG who received this whistle blower report.

2nd bit of info is that it does involve Ukraine.

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cattyles

It’s going to be about oppo research on Biden/Biden’s son.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Rats...I did forget at least one...

  • abuse of power
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Annie Deighnaugh

86

45!

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Ziemia(6a)

Whistle blower has hired a lawyer?

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Annie Deighnaugh

I think trump misunderstood his oath...he's supposed to defend against all of America's enemies, domestic and foreign...not his personal enemies...

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bob_cville

Traitor

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Kathy

Giuliani said something interesting and got me to thinking it had to do with the election. In addition there is speculation Trump said he would withdraw military aid from Ukraine unless they investigated Joe Biden?Biden’s son.

Now Trump using his Presidential power to secure the election by any means. And Barr is helping him.


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chase_gw

I think that could be what it is. Trump promised, or threatened, the Ukraine if they did not help find dirt on Biden's son. I'm thinking that only because the information did not come about through any intelligence gathering but rather from personal observations by the whistle blower...do you suppose it could be Coates or the Assistant director who quit?

Pure speculation and guess work on my part....but it would not surprise me. Not that Trump supporters will give a tinkers damn that Trump abused his power for personal political gain.

Who knows but it must be a dandy if they are going to such lengths to prevent it from getting out. I am not the least bit surprised Barr is up to his ears in this....the man is a disgrace to his country and the law.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Funny, congress did get barr to back down when they threatened him with contempt of congress...so that might be a lever to use on him...so long as whatever is left of his personal integrity holds out...

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leona_2008

Barr's personal integrity? Ha! Personal integrity would mean doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do, on your own, without others making you.

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dandyfopp

Blackmail, bribes, give us fake dirt on Biden for 2020 or no money.


When Donnie loses he isn't leaving. He is going to spend the transition accusing the winner of everything he himself has done and he will incite violence.


Take it to the bank.




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Annie Deighnaugh

What's truly scandalous about this administration is there is no shortage of potential scandals that this whistleblower thing could be about.

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Izzy Mn(4)

So he is leveraging support, or pulling back support of Ukraine in order to get dirt on Bindens son in order to help win election. Guiliani even went there to try and get information.

And the what would Republicans be saying if Obama did something like this to get reelected?


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chase_gw

Guiliani admitted outright that he asked the PM of Ukraine to investigate Biden's son and provide the information . He overtly solicited help from a foreign government to aid in Trump's reelection.....I know , no biggie.

If it is found out that Trump himself used his Presidential powers to solicit Ukraine's help in digging up dirt on Biden, will Trump supporters care? My bet is they will not!

Will the Republicans in Congress care.......will this make them finally speak up?

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Michele

I can’t read through this right now. This turns my stomach. It is a creepfest!!! Mr. dealmaker has loyalty to himself alone not to the people of this country. He has tarnished the office of president. He is completely off the charts.

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cattyles

There will be many threads that attempt to distract from this thread as the truth comes out. I’m over caring whether trump apologists will ever “get it”. They get it. They don’t care. They will follow trump’s lead and lash out using all the methods we have become familiar with.

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tryingtounderstand

Promises made and kept, economic strong, isis done, wall being built, NK BFF, on and on...America will continue to be great! Pff and so what if dirt and promises are made to Ukraine. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do to MAGA and keep America Great..

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HU9999

The President of the United States threatening another country to withhold tax payer money unless they investigate his enemy.

Let that sink in. Tax payer money. Our money. That Congress apportioned. Threatening to withhold it unless they do him a favor.

If that is not an impeachable offense, what would be?

Can the base actually overlook or defend this? I'm afraid of the answer to that question.


ETA: Guilliani has lost his mind. I never supported him but I never thought he was stupid. He needs to exit stage left before he embarrasses himself more.

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HU9999

Also, I'd bet anything that Trump doesn't understand why what he did was wrong. It's how he has acted his entire life. He thinks it's how one is supposed to act.

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cattyles

Yes. It has become completely transparent. If we spend our time defending Beto’s teenage fiction, Trudeau’s socks and thoughtless dark-face costumes (yes, they’re racist. I accept his apology) Warren’s percentage of Native American heritage (and recipes FGS) and other manipulative topics that have been endlessly argued we’re giving trump breathing room. Rabbit holes are everywhere.

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dandyfopp

Lies. Constant lies.

No reason to lie if you have done nothing wrong.


Donnie knows.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

"When Donnie loses he isn't leaving. He is going to spend the transition accusing the winner of everything he himself has done and he will incite violence.

Take it to the bank."

Withdrawals might be a better move at the time.



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Andie

ETA: Guilliani has lost his mind. I never supported him but I never thought he was stupid. He needs to exit stage left before he embarrasses himself more.




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Annie Deighnaugh

Here's one take on what it's all about...


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cattyles

I still have a headache from watching Giuliani last night. Barry Berke would decimate him. How many times now has Rudy gone on TV and spilled the beans?

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Andie

It was like watching a train wreck.

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dandyfopp

Rudys job is to go on TV and somewhere in a mindless word salad say yeah we did that, so what so that Donnie fans can turn up the next day and say yeah they did it, so what.



But her emails.

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margaux

How long before the RW chimes in with

WITCHHUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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cattyles

I don’t know. I think they’ll come out with false equivalencies first. We can be sure there will be outrage and hyperbole no matter which tactic is used.

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maddie260

The goal posts keep moving on dt's corruption, and his followers can't see it. It began with crowd size at the inauguration, and they fell for it. Everything has been explained away as "alternative facts" or "fake news". As Benjamin Franklin said we have a republic if we can keep it. But, when one side enables a corrupt POTUS despite everything, I have my doubts.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Giuliani lives by the rule of whoever screams the loudest BS wins.

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adoptedbyhounds

"The President of the United States threatening another country to withhold tax payer money unless they investigate his enemy.

Let that sink in. Tax payer money. Our money. That Congress apportioned. Threatening to withhold it unless they do him a favor."

Yes, do let that sink in. Did it bother you when Joe Biden bragged he got Ukraine's top prosecutor fired? Do you remember how he did it?

By threatening to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Why did he do it? Depends on who you ask.


FTA: In a move sure to trigger 2016 P.T.S.D., The New York Times has published a nearly 3,000-word tale of intrigue
involving the Biden family’s various entanglements in Ukraine. In
short, the story is this: in the final year of the Obama presidency,
Vice President Joe Biden “threatened to withhold $1
billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine’s leaders did not
dismiss the country’s top prosecutor”—Viktor Shokin—“who
had been accused of turning a blind eye to corruption in his own office
and among the political elite.” The pressure campaign also just so
happened to benefit Biden’s younger son, Hunter, who
was then getting paid as much as $50,000 to sit on the board of Burisma
Holdings, a Ukrainian energy company that was in Shokin’s sights. The
question the Times raises, but does not answer, is: were Joe’s and Hunter’s overlapping interests in Ukraine coincidental, or corrupt?"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/05/biden-ukrainian-gas-company

I'm familiar with Democrats and the FBI trying to frame President Trump as a Russian asset to influence the outcome of our last presidential election.

I'm familiar with Adam Schiff and his eagerness to make accusations he can't back up. So it's not surprising to me that our current president may well have spoken to foreign leaders in the Ukraine. Biden has bragged about success in getting what he wanted from Ukraine by threatening to withhold taxpayer guarantees. Perhaps the "promise" from President Trump involved taking a closer look at what Biden did, and his motives. I can see where, from the Democrats point of view, a closer look at what he did, and if his son was a beneficiary, could be seen as threatening.

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dandyfopp

Cult rule: Everyone is corrupt.

Except Donnie.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Yep trump was framed. Nothing is ever his fault. Nothing. Even when he speaks his own words. Still not his fault. Nothing is ever his fault. Nothing.

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Carro

Perhaps the "promise" from President Trump involved taking a closer look at what Biden did, and his motives. I can see where, from the Democrats point of view, a closer look at what he did, and if his son was a beneficiary, could be seen as threatening.

I listened to Trump take multiple questions on this today. He's confident and seems unconcerned that he's got a problem on his hands. Joe Biden might, but Trump seems focused and ready.

Once again, the Democrats should be careful what they wish for.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Isn't it kind of amazing the way our president cannot seem to catch a break? He keeps being associated with so many corrupt people, and activities. Who knew 1 person could be so unfortunate as to be so constantly (and falsely!) accused?

And every single time it's been proven he's as innocent as a lamb.

You might think he was snakebit.

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cattyles

If Biden was involved in corruption, I don’t want him as our nominee and if he should be prosecuted, so be it.

Easy peasy.

Your turn. What about trump?

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cattyles

Vgkg, Giuliani screamed the loudest last night for sure. I had to mute the tv. His eyes were crazed and he totally lost it.

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chase_gw

Agree Cattyles, we must demand the utmost in honesty, integrity and respectful behaviour from our electeds. The odd slip up or misstep fine, but to continually demostrate a lack of basic values , especially honesty and integrity is unacceptable.......or should be.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Giuliani gave up his soul and scruples to give allegiance to trump, just like so many others.

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Prim Rose

As far as Biden, though, there wont be a process to determine if he's guilty of something. It will be donny style gutter politics and his base/puppets screeching 24/7.

Trump will deploy his lackey, barr, and make his own problems all go away.

Just as he did in 2016.

Come on Dems! We learned that lesson.

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leona_2008

Did he, vgkg? Did Barr? Not so sure we didn't just assume they were better people than they were and now we are finally seeing who they always were. Full disclosure: I never had a high opinion of Giuliani but I thought he was better than this.

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judeNY_gw

My question is: who will hold him accountable?

There has been no evidence so far that anyone will.

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Carro

https://conservativedailypost.com/whoops-joe-bidens-bragging-revives-ukrainian-nightmare-probe/

“I said, ‘You’re not getting the billion.’ I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,’” Biden recalled telling Poroshenko.

“Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time,” Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event, insisting that President Obama was in on the threat.

Interviews with a half-dozen senior Ukrainian officials confirm Biden’s account, though they claim the pressure was applied over several months in late 2015 and early 2016, not just six hours of one dramatic day. Whatever the case, Poroshenko and Ukraine’s parliament obliged by ending Shokin’s tenure as prosecutor.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

America's Mayor has morphed into America's patsy for America's Moron.

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Kathy

Russia show me Hillary’s 30,000 emails. When will we ever learn?

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Carro

The transcript of this phone call with Ukraine will probably be put out there. I think Trump should give the Left what they want, then watch them spin it when they don't like what it reveals.

Another political hit job.


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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,others)(8a)

And if the issue is not Ukraine?

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Kathy

What would be the reason to hide this if Trump is so innocent?

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Carro

Kathy, that's a good question that needs to be answered.

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margaux

Trump said it's okay for him to ask Ukraine about Biden. So asking Ukraine to investigate a political opponent to help you win an election and threatening to withhold aid money isn't colluding with a foreign power? What do you call it, Carro?

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Izzy Mn(4)

I think it sounds more like blackmail to me. Give me what I want and I'll protect you. ... actually it sounds more like a mob boss.

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adoptedbyhounds

"And if the issue is not Ukraine?"

It could be RUSSIA!

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Carro


margaux

Trump said it's okay for him to ask Ukraine about Biden. So asking Ukraine to investigate a political opponent to help you win an election and threatening to withhold aid money isn't colluding with a foreign power? What do you call it, Carro?

LOL, I don't call "it" anything YET. We've no idea what was said. It's reported by the WaPo that the party involved was the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

What do you know that the rest of us don't?

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dandyfopp

Typically innocent folk don't order things to be blocked and hidden.


Don't worry. Donnie will release the transcripts of those phone calls just as soon as he releases his taxes.

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chase_gw

Or Barr will release a " version".

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Eat Well

Was the promise to release taxes an actual lie or a deliberate lie?

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whynottryit


Carro

The transcript of this phone call with Ukraine will probably be put out there. I think Trump should give the Left what they want, then watch them spin it when they don't like what it reveals.

-------------

He certainly should. That would be what any sane, innocent, long-running man would do. Put that nonsense to rest.

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whynottryit

Sorry, apparently auto correct decided right-thinking should be long-running and I didn't notice until I hit submit.

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Carro

Don't worry. Donnie will release the transcripts of those phone calls just as soon as he releases his taxes.

You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that Trump is legally required to divulge the latter.

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Carro

He certainly should. That would be what any sane, innocent, long-running man would do. Put that nonsense to rest.

Absolutely! Then we can find out if at the very least, Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden acted unethically. At worst, if Biden acted corruptly and Hunter may have violated the law.

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Annie Deighnaugh

You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that Trump is legally required to divulge the latter.

No. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that he *isn't* required *by law* to turn them over to the House Ways & Means Committee Chair.

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whynottryit

No argument about that. Now, what if Trump is also corrupt? What if he did hold aid hostage in exchange for dirt on Biden? What should happen then?

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cattyles

Transcripts can be forged. I want to see what the IG deemed urgent.

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chase_gw

Not sure if I heard this right...up to my backside canning tomatoes....but I think I just heard that the IG is urging the whistleblower to go directly to Congress, he is that concerned.

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Kathy

Nothing Trump unearths about Biden excuses his methods of unscrupulous actions. One doesn’t cancel out the other.

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whynottryit


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1175123726310006786.html



Kurt Eichenwald

@kurteichenwald

Subscribe

12 minutes ago, 5 tweets, 1 min read Read on Twitter

Bookmark Save as PDF

  1. Important to get on intel whistleblower law: If IG found a WB complaint was NOT credible or urgent, WB can independently go to Congress. No one EVER envisioned a DCI would break the law and refuse to turn over a complaint deemed credible and urgent...

2...because of that, there is no provision in the law allowing the whistleblower to go to Congress, because the complaint was found to be credible. The idea that the DNI would just blithely break the law was never considered....

3...so we have a situation where, if the IG found the complaint to be insignificant and not credible, the whistleblower could notify congress. But because it was found to be credible and urgent, the whistleblower can't do so because....

4...there is no provision in the law written to empower the whistleblower to act independently if superiors break the law. The whistleblower could argue that this nonsense assumes a right to go to congress, but suddenly Barr could declare such a disclosure....

5...is not allowed because the complaint was found to be urgent and credible. So the whistleblower could be prosecuted for being right, while the @ODNIgov suffers no consequence for breaking the law.

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cattyles

If trump really believes Biden did something unscrupulous or illegal it should be properly investigated.

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chase_gw

I cannot believe that if the information is critical and truthful that there could ever be a successful prosecution of the WB .....this one is seriously bizarre

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chase_gw

Then again all norms seem to have been tossed to the curb.

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Kathy

Ukrainian Official: Trump Wants Dirt ‘To Discredit Biden’

Ukraine officials see no indication Biden or his son broke their laws. If Trump wants them investigated in Kyiv, his government will need to say why and what for.


—Ukraine is ready to investigate the connections Joe Biden’s son Hunter had with the Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma Holdings, according to Anton Geraschenko, a senior adviser to the country’s interior minister who would oversee such an inquiry.

Geraschenko told The Daily Beast in an exclusive interview that “as soon as there is an official request" Ukraine will look into the case, but “currently there is no open investigation.”

Clearly,” said Geraschenko, “Trump is now looking for kompromat to discredit his opponent Biden, to take revenge for his friend Paul Manafort, who is serving seven years in prison.” Among the counts on which Manafort was convicted: tax evasion. “We do not investigate Biden in Ukraine, since we have not received a single official request to do so,” said Geraschenko.

His remarks last week came amid widespread speculation that U.S. President Donald Trump had made vital U.S. military aid for Ukraine contingent on such an inquiry, but had tried to do so informally through unofficial representatives, including his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and Giuliani’s adviser on Ukraine, Sam Kislin.

But Geraschenko spoke before the appearance of a Washington Post storyon Thursday that implied that an intelligence community whistleblower may have reported that the untoward quid pro quo was put forth directly by Trump in a phone call with Ukraine’s newly elected president last July.

Geraschenko reconfirmed his statements in a phone call on Friday.



https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukraine-is-ready-to-investigate-bidens-sonbut-only-if-theres-an-official-us-request

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Carro

No. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that he *isn't* required *by law* to turn them over to the House Ways & Means Committee Chair.


LOL, POTUS isn't required by law, so...

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whynottryit

After 243 years of fighting for democracy and freedom, at home and abroad, traveling through space, investing in hope and peace, we wind up being taken down by this infantile menace. Yes, truly bizarre.

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Carro


cattyles

If trump really believes Biden did something unscrupulous or illegal it should be properly investigated.

Any cattyles finally admits that a President has these powers under Article II of the Constitution!

Yay!


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whynottryit

And there it is...POTUS (i.e., Trump and only Trump) is above the law.

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Annie Deighnaugh

According to Lawrence O'Donnell, reading the law re the whistleblower:

It says: If the inspector general does not transmit or does not transmit in

an accurate form the complaint or information described in sub paragraph B,

the employee subject to the clause may submit the complaint or information

to Congress by contacting either or both of the Intelligence Committees.

Directly, the employee may contact the Intelligence Committees directly as

described in clause one only if the employee before making such a contact

furnishes to the director, through the inspector general, a statement of

the employee`s complaint or information and notice of the employee`s

intent.

So it sounds like the WB has the ability to go directly to Congress with the complaint even if the DNI doesn't submit it...the employee need only notify the DNI that s/he's doing so.

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Carro


Kathy

Nothing Trump unearths about Biden excuses his methods of unscrupulous actions. One doesn’t cancel out the other.

Well, we have Biden admitting to strong-arming Ukaraine, which deliberately or not, benefited his son, Hunter, to the tune of millions. Then we have ??? that Trump did or did not do as exposed by a not-a-whistle blower.

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Carro

whynottryit

And there it is...POTUS (i.e., Trump and only Trump) is above the law.

What part of Article II did Trump violate? I'll wait while you Google it.

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whynottryit

Is that the only article/law he is bound by? Though you didn't specify that here.

Carro

No. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that he *isn't* required *by law* to turn them over to the House Ways & Means Committee Chair.


LOL, POTUS isn't required by law, so...

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Carro

Better Google again.

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whynottryit

Since I don't have your ability to comprehend what I'm reading, why don't you explain it to me?

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dandyfopp




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Carro

From the WSJ:


"President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden ’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter.

“He told him that he should work with [Mr. Giuliani] on Biden, and that people in Washington wanted to know” whether allegations were true or not, one of the people said. Mr. Trump didn’t mention a provision of foreign aid to Ukraine on the call, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid-pro-quo for his cooperation on an investigation."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defends-conversation-with-ukraine-leader-11568993176?mod=hp_lead_pos1

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Kathy

Russia will work with Trump on discrediting Biden.

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chase_gw

WOW!!!! .......and you think that's OK ? Whether he threatened to withhold funds is not as important as the fact he used his power as President of the US to pressure a foreign government to investigate a political adversary........are you kidding me!

Unbelievable !

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Kathy

While it may look as if Biden exploited the loan money as leverage in order to kill an investigation into a corporation that employed his son, Bloomberg learned that the Burisma investigation had been shuttled to the back burner in 2015 before Biden’s trip and, the report added, the Obama administration’s intention was to convince the Ukrainian government to crack down on corruption in general.

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Annie Deighnaugh

carro, this is the *law*:

Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary [of the Treasury] shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.4

trump is currently in violation of that law. Whether or not his sycophantic AG will enforce that law or not is another thing.

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chase_gw

At least with the Russian interference it was passive acceptance of their help in defeating Hillary but in this case it is acive pursuit of information to hurt his opponent.......and this time done personally by Trump.

What will it take?

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cattyles

That’s not the proper way to do it. I’m sure you realize that. Spin all you want. trump has his big old butt in a bind. Can Barr unbind him? I guess we will see what happens.

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Annie Deighnaugh

chase, it's only wrong if trumplicans say it's wrong. And when it comes to trump, he can do no wrong, so no, it's not a problem.

clinton lying about sex is an impeachable offense...trump illegally paying off chippies and lying about it and his personal attorney is doing time for it is not a problem.

hillary using a private email server is reason to 'lock her up'....trump using unsecured phones, private servers, open air strategy sessions and leaking code-level info to the russians is not a problem.

I know it's hard to understand, but it's really quite simple: trump can do no wrong. carro just told us...he's above the law. Meet King Donald, the first king of the United States of America. Everything else flows from that.

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whynottryit

As West Wing's Bartlett told his bunch about Shariff: This isn't
a cave dweller. This is Capone. You haven't got it.

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cattyles

The saddest part? It’s all because he upsets the Dems. Our country is being ripped apart and they’ll defend that for those delicious librul tears. How’s that for patriotism?

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Mimou-GW

President BuildAWallPutKidsInCages is likely guilty of public corruption. But the DOJ is owned so nothing will be done.

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whynottryit

What will it take? This:

DJT calls for forced abortions while holding a mangled fetus in one hand and wrenching away 2nd Amendment rights in the other.

Well, maybe that would be enough. Might have to add a crashed economy to that.

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Kathy

There is no lengths to which Trump supporters will go to deny they voted a mobster into the Presidency.

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cattyles

Mobster is the most polite term for him.

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Carro

trump is currently in violation of that law. Whether or not his sycophantic AG will enforce that law or not is another thing.

Prove it.

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Carro

Since when did Biden win the nomination?

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adoptedbyhounds

"Ukraine officials see no indication Biden or his son broke their laws."

Bribery is a violation of our laws. Biden pressed for the firing of a prosecutor, by threatening to withhold loan guarantees if his demand wasn't met. The threat worked, the Ukraine got rid of the prosecutor Joe Biden wanted removed, and in return, he turned over the money he had been withholding.

He sought a specific outcome from a Ukrainian government official in return for the loan guarantees. He bragged about it. There is no question that it happened. No reason in the world our current president should not want to know what happened, upon whose authority the VP made his demand, and the basis for that demand.

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chase_gw

The investigation was called off by the Ukraine's months before those comments by Biden.....facts matter

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Carro

Hmm...why did Biden brag about it?

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tryingtounderstand

Trump acknowledges having very appropriate convos, probably just talked about the weather, kids, family, the usual no biggie “Mr. Trump on Friday defended his July call with Mr. Zelensky as “totally appropriate” but declined to say whether he had asked the Ukrainian leader to investigate Mr. Biden, a former U.S. vice president. “It doesn’t matter what I discussed,” he said.

At the same time, he reiterated his call for an investigation into Mr. Biden’s effort as vice president to oust Ukraine’s prosecutor general. “Somebody ought to look into that," he told reporter”

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chase_gw

Don't know what the context of those remarks were but that does not change the fact that the President of the United States used his power and influence to intimidate a foreign power into helping him with negative information about a political adversary......you're OK with that...fine.

It just reinforces my opinion of what Trump supporters are willing to accept .

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heri _ cles

Add an Article of Impeachment for Abuse of Power - Abusing the Office of the Presidency to attack a political opponent ....and then Impeach that SOB.

This is another window of opportunity to get that sob Impeached. Do it.

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Andie

Trump said he has nothing to hide. If that's the case, shouldn't he release the transcript of at least his part of the conversation?

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chase_gw

Carro, here is the difference....to a person I guarantee you liberals here will say that if Biden did something wrong he has lost there confidence.....Trump supporters are incapable of that . They will defend his actions no matter how egregious, no matter how outrageous

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Carro


tryingtounderstand

Trump acknowledges having very appropriate convos, probably just talked about the weather, kids, family, the usual no biggie

Um, it was a phone call not a tarmac meeting.

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chase_gw

Of he did nothing wrong why the incredible effort to conceal the truth

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Carro

Biden openly bragged that - in his capacity as Vice President - he used a threat of cutting of United State financial aid to Ukraine unless the prosecutor looking into shady dealings by his odious son Hunter would lay off. Now that seems like an actual crime of obstruction.

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chase_gw

Carro, that is a patently untrue statement. He made no such comment

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cattyles

Are you out of defense for trump? Deflecting to Biden? If Biden said something like that right in front of an audience and it’s recorded, it shouldn’t be any problem for it to be investigated.

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Carro

Biden is at the center of this latest hullabaloo. Like it or not.

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chase_gw

Biden did talk about insisting that the corrupt attorney general in the Ukraine be fired but it was months after the investigation into the company Hunter Biden was involved with was dropped by this very prosecutor.

In other words the prosecutor he was talking about had already , on his own, stopped investigating that company......

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cattyles

I already said whether or not I like it. If Biden did something wrong I hope that it is handled properly.

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chase_gw

Oh yes Biden is at the center...the bullseye Trump is going after politically by coercing foreign governments into hurting his political opponents

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Andie

Biden is at the center of this latest hullabaloo. Like it or not.

You got that much right.

Now about that Trump deflection.

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Carro

Biden boasted to the Council of Foreign Relations about withholding funds unless some guy was fired. That's extortion.

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Eat Well

Apparently the RW’s favorite search engine didn’t provide a satisfactory result.

BIDEN’S REQUEST TO UKRAINE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTER.

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cattyles

Biden is involved because trump perceives him as the biggest threat. It’s about trump.

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Mimou-GW


Fact check

Key takeaways

• Hunter Biden did hold a directorship for a Ukrainian gas company while his father was vice president. Experts agree that Hunter Biden's acceptance of the position created a conflict of interest for his father.

• Vice President Joe Biden did urge Ukraine to fire its top prosecutor, with the threat of withholding U.S. aid. But that was the position of the wider U.S. government, as well as other international institutions.

• We found no evidence to support the idea that Joe Biden advocated with his son's interests in mind, as the message suggests. It's not even clear that the company was actively under investigation or that a change in prosecutors benefited it.

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Andie

DEFLECT, DEFLECT, DEFLECT.

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chase_gw

"Biden openly bragged that - in his capacity as Vice President - he used a threat of cutting of United State financial aid to Ukraine unless the prosecutor looking into shady dealings by his odious son Hunter would lay off."

Carro...are you intending to provide the source to back up your allegations?

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Eat Well

Carro

21 minutes ago

Biden openly bragged that - in his capacity as Vice President - he used a threat of cutting of United State financial aid to Ukraine unless the prosecutor looking into shady dealings by his odious son Hunter would lay off.

———-

WRONG.

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Carro

I've posted Biden's quotes already.

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Prim Rose

LOL!!!

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Andie

Carro...are you intending to provide the source to back up your allegations?


Of course not. Doesn't exist.

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Kathy


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Andie



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Prim Rose

[

](https://www.gardenweb.com/user/webuser-799710926)

Carro

Biden boasted to the Council of Foreign Relations about withholding funds unless some guy was fired. That's extortion.

Now extortion!!

Dang, Biden's going away for a long time. For obstruction AND extortion.

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Eat Well

You provided a quote from Biden where he said he pressured Ukraine because .... Hunter? Let's see it.

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Mimou-GW

Hillary Clinton

@HillaryClinton

The president asked a foreign power to help him win an election.
Again.

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Ann

"Since when did Biden win the nomination?"

Lol, not even Biden, but since when did Hunter Biden win the nomination? Heck, how quickly we forget the left's obsession with Don Jr.

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Carro

chase_gw

Don't know what the context of those remarks were but that does not change the fact that the President of the United States used his power and influence to intimidate a foreign power into helping him with negative information about a political adversary......you're OK with that...fine.

It just reinforces my opinion of what Trump supporters are willing to accept .

chase, the Leftist Trump haters will take anything and pin their hopes and dreams on it getting rid of Trump. This latest hair-on-fire doo-doo fest is just the latest example.

I personally am not tired of watching you fill the fail bucket with such dashed desires.

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Annie Deighnaugh

trump is currently in violation of that law. Whether or not his sycophantic AG will enforce that law or not is another thing.

Prove it.

What's to prove....I've stated the law, the request was made, trump is defying that request.

QED

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Prim Rose

And still, no source.

Y'all are digging your own rabbit holes.

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Carro


chase_gw

That you have it..he can do no wrong ...no matter what

There it is. Trump can do nothing right. I hope you're enjoying our booming economy and low gas prices.

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chase_gw

There you have it.....he can do no wrong ...no matter what.

Still waiting for the actual quote of what Biden said, when he said it, and how it related to Hunter

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Carro

Certainly when Jerry Nadler calls Joe and Hunter Biden to testify, we'll know more.

Oh, wait...

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Eat Well

Being able to not look away from the fame whore train wreck that is Don Jr is not the same as an obsession.

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Carro

Still waiting for this nothing burger to be a real, juicy, edible, tasty treat!


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Carro

And we're not even talking about Hunter Biden's deals with China!

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chase_gw

Just love it when the only way out is to deflect....a tact often used by the fearless leader.

Next up ..Trudeau

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Eat Well


Carro

I've posted Biden's quotes already.

------------

Quote, quote, quote, where are you?

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cattyles

Wait! What was used first? Deflection or false equivalency? I lost track. But it wasn’t WITCHHUNT so I won the bet with Margaux.

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Carro

Do you agree with Joe? is it OK to demand a prosecutor be fired to get foreign aid?

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maifleur01

I keep wondering at the comments about Biden refusing to release funds to Ukraine. Where did he have any power to release any funds. That was not something he could have done. Other countries are smarter than believe that.

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cattyles

I agree with Rex Tillerson.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

I agreed with Rex 2 years ago. If there were anything at all to the Biden stuff trump would have Barr and the FBI all over it by now. The Biden malarkey is as nutz as Obama tapping trump tower and Hillary's sex ring in the pizza shop. You trumpsters really are........desperate, like trump..

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chase_gw

"Do you agree with Joe? is it OK to demand a prosecutor be fired to get foreign aid?"

Dunno Carro, we need his exact words in context to evaluate....waiting on you for that

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cattyles

Yeah, I meant what Tillerson said two years ago.

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Carro

Dunno Carro, we need his exact words in context to evaluate....waiting on you for that

Take advantage of our superior 4G.

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Delilah66

We may be incorrect thinking donnie called the president of the Ukraine to get dirt on Biden. He probably just called to joke about their similarities.

”Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a comedian and political newcomer who was elected in a landslide in May.”

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Carro

Biden gave Ukraine an ultimatum and when Ukraine capitulated, they got their money.

Same can be said for Hunter Biden.

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Prim Rose

PROPAGANDA.

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Delilah66

Quotes with no links or citations are not quotes . They’re figments of your imagination.

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chase_gw

I think that was an " uncle "

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Barr and the FBI would be on top of that if there were an ounce of truth to it.

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Prim Rose

But, enough with the deflection.

The op:

The whistleblower complaint that has triggered a tense showdown between the U.S. intelligence community and Congress involves President Trump’s communications with a foreign leader, according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

Trump’s interaction with the foreign leader included a “promise” that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted an official in the U.S. intelligence community to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

It was not immediately clear which foreign leader Trump was speaking with or what he pledged to deliver, but his direct involvement in the matter has not been previously disclosed. It raises new questions about the president’s handling of sensitive information and may further strain his relationship with U.S. spy agencies. One former official said the communication was a phone conversation.



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Carro

Well this is a rather weak response:


"Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden dismissed President Trump’s call for an investigation into the former vice president's ties to Ukraine amid conservatives’ accusations of misconduct.

“Not one single, credible outlet has given any credibility to his assertion. Not one single one,” Biden told reporters Friday. “So I have no comment except the president should start to be president.”"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/462399-biden-dismisses-trumps-ukraine-allegations-the-president-should-start-to-be




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cattyles

It’s going to be fascinating to see what happens. I think this may be the canary down the mine shaft for our country.

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cattyles

That was an outstanding response. It said “I’m working here and I’ve no time for trump’s drama deflection to me”. Like a cool breeze on a spring day. Delicious.

That was the response of an adult that has interests other than his own.

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chase_gw

I don't think it's weak at all..I think he is being very smart to stay out of what is going to be a real mess for Trump

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Carro

Nobody knows who the Trump-hating whistleblower is but we do know that out of dozens of INS staffers privy to the same information he had he is the only one who had a problem with it to the point that he conspired with House democrats to leak his complaints to the press for the leftists in the press to make hay out of

Why was he the only one? Our national security at risk and no one else privy felt concern.

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Eat Well

Carro

Well this is a rather weak response:

----------------

In your OPINION.

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Eat Well

How do you know the whistle blower hates Trump?


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chase_gw

"Why was he the only one? Our national security at risk and no one else privy felt concern."

Apparently the IG thought so too...a Trump apointee

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Carro


"Here's @kenvogel of the New York Times saying on MSNBC that he views Joe Biden son's work in Ukraine as "a significant liability for Joe Biden."

"There is a story here," Vogel adds, saying "we're going to continue to, sort of, pull that back." (I'm sure Trump is very grateful!)"

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Eat Well

Vogel's own reporting debunks it. "No evidence has surfaced that the former vice president intentionally tried to help his son by pressing for the prosecutor general’s dismissal"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html

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Izzy Mn(4)
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margaux

They are awaiting IG Horowitz's report with bated breath, but when an IG from the Intelligence department finds a whistleblowers' complaint to be of utmost concern, that's just Trump-hating.

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Delilah66

Trump Turnberry. Trump DC. Trump Doral. Next up: Trump Florence ADX, CO.

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Kathy

Why was he the only one? Our national security at risk and no one else privy felt concern.

WASHINGTON — The number of complaints made to a confidential hotline designed to allow the reporting of waste, fraud and abuse in the intelligence community has skyrocketed since Donald Trump took office, government records show.

The numbers for the latest fiscal year are on pace to be even higher: There were 297 complaints in just the first six months — from October 2018 through last March, according to the report.

The report doesn't describe the complaints or tally how many of those rose to the level of an "urgent concern"—a category of serious complaints that must be turned over to Congress. Officials involved in the process say that designation is rare.

According to the latest public report by the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, the hotline received 563 contacts last year, up from 251 in 2016 and 369 in 2017.

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Ann

I like this as I think we all should learn more about Hunter and Ukraine.

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Annie Deighnaugh

There's something especially distasteful about using a person's son to get at him after he's recently lost another son to brain cancer.

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cait1

Annie... 24 hour rule. It's easy and spares one from unnecessary pearl clutching.

Wait a day before ya post accusations because usually the truth surfaces and then ya not left with an OP that's nothing more than a gossip column entry.

WaPOS released an accusatory article on the 19th, filled with suspicion, intrigue and spin, that many read as if it was gospel, then today, the 20th, admitted there's no 'there there' but still, WaPOS surrounds it more suspicion, intrigue and spin.

From today's article, and this is really all ya need to know from it unless you enjoy Enquirer-like gossip - which, apparently, many do:

"One source familiar with the contents of the exchange said that Trump did not raise the issue of American military and intelligence aid that had been pledged to Ukraine, indicating there was not an explicit quid pro quo in that call."

http://archive.is/5yuqo

I'm offering the archived link for those who have reached their WaPOS limit and that happens fast on this board. I wish others would be as courteous but I doubt that's possible because then other poster's couldn't see how cherry-picked OP's are. And before I'm accused of cherry-picking... no. I offered a link everyone can read and the most important paragraph of that cough cough article.

No quid pro quo.

Anything after that is just guessing, innuendo and obfuscation. But some people like that kinda thing.


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Ann

Annie, that's very thoughtful, but a death of one family member doesn't change the past business behavior of another.

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Joaniepoanie

cait

WaPOS released an accusatory article on the 19th, filled with suspicion, intrigue and spin, that many read as if it was gospel, then today, the 20th, admitted there's no 'there there' but still, WaPOS surrounds it more suspicion, intrigue and spin.

From today's article, and this is really all ya need to know from it unless you enjoy Enquirer-like gossip - which, apparently, many do:

"One source familiar with the contents of the exchange said that Trump did not raise the issue of American military and intelligence aid that had been pledged to Ukraine, indicating there was not an explicit quid pro quo in that call."

*******

Once again the right quoting the WaPo is a hoot. Isn’t it fake news? At least that’s what you've been screaming for four years. You rail against MSM, especially the WaPo and NYT, until you extract a snippet that you think exonerates Trump and then the WaPo is suddenly rendered legit in your eyes.

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whynottryit


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-trump-and-giuliani-pressured-ukraine-to-investigate-the-presidents-rivals/2019/09/20

Yuri Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian prosecutor general who succeeded the fired prosecutor, told Bloomberg News in May that there was no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe or Hunter Biden.

But Giuliani has said there is more to uncover, adding that his goal is to make sure Biden didn’t become president without having to answer for the issues in Ukraine.

“What I’m saying to him: You’re not getting from here to the presidency without answering these questions,” Giuliani said in May of his efforts. “The president’s counsel is entitled to develop evidence.”

Giuliani has also urged Ukraine to investigate whether Democrats colluded with Ukrainian authorities during the 2016 election to put out information damaging to Manafort, who is now serving a 7½-year prison sentence for financial crimes related to lobbying he did for a Russia-aligned politician in Ukraine.

In all, Giuliani said he has had about five conversations this year with Yermak, the aide to Zelensky. He said Yermak was concerned that Trump had not met with the Ukrainians and was “embarrassed” at the lack of a meeting — and wanted to make sure “nothing is wrong.”

At the Madrid meeting this summer, Giuliani said he did not address the topic of U.S. aid. “I was not involved in the aid at all,” he said. “I had no idea the $250 million was on the table.”

Giuliani said he left the meeting with the impression that the Ukrainians would pursue the cases he has pushed them to take up. “He told me he would make sure things were investigated appropriately but they would need some time to appoint a new prosecutor,” Giuliani said.

Yermak told the New York Times last month that the new government in Ukraine was committed to fairly investigating possible crimes but all decisions had to wait until the country had a new top prosecutor.

People close to Zelensky have told American officials that if there is a case to pursue, they will follow it and the law — an attempt by Zelensky and his aides to avoid getting drawn into a partisan political fight in the United States.

“For us, the important thing is to not get involved,” said one Ukrainian official earlier this summer, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

“There is nothing good that can come from this,” he added. “I don’t want us to be used.”

During the Kiev meeting with Zelensky this month, Murphy said there was “a large level of discomfort from the outreach of the president’s political team. The embassy didn’t know what to do with it either.”

“I heard they were confused and vexed about what they should do by these requests,” Murphy said Friday. “This is a brand-new president, and he starts getting requests from the president’s political team to do investigation. My concern was definitely validated by the conversations I had in Kiev.”

When they spoke, Zelensky also stressed the importance of a meeting with Trump, adding that he did not want to be drawn into the 2020 presidential election, Murphy said.

Zelensky did not respond to requests for comment Friday.

The two presidents had been scheduled to meet in Warsaw earlier this month until Trump called off the trip, citing Hurricane Dorian’s projected landfall in the United States.

Vice President Pence went in his place. Asked by reporters on the trip if he brought up Biden with his meeting with Zelensky, Pence said he did not. But he connected the delayed military aid to Ukraine’s actions on corruption.

“As President Trump had me make clear, we have great concerns about issues of corruption,” the vice president said. “The president wants to be assured that those resources are truly making their way to the kind of investments that will contribute to security and stability in Ukraine. And that’s an expectation the American people have and the president has expressed very clearly.”

Days later, on Sept. 12, the U.S. aid package was delivered to Ukraine and announced the following day by Zelensky at a political conference.

Zelensky thanked Trump for releasing the $250 million in aid, noting that another $140 million was included as well, adding, “Now I can say that we have excellent relations with the U.S.A.”

“So I think we are really moving in the right direction and we have the right relationship with our strategic partner — the United States of America,” he added.

Murphy said he and other senators were planning legislation to push through the aid that would have won Republican support, potentially forcing the White House’s hand.

Zelensky and Trump are scheduled to meet on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York this month. Still, the White House hasn’t set a date for an Oval Office meeting with Zelensky.

Trump’s interactions with Zelensky are part of the whistleblower complaint by an intelligence official that is at the center of a showdown between the executive branch and Congress. Administration officials have refused to divulge any information about the substance of an Aug. 12 report to the inspector general of the U.S. intelligence community.

Earlier this month, House Democrats launched an investigation into whether Trump sought to pressure Ukraine into investigating Biden in exchange for receiving U.S. foreign aid.

Giuliani said he does not believe House Democrats are acting in “good faith” and said the administration’s resistance to sharing more information is justified.

“Congress doesn’t have a decent purpose in getting it. They’re a bunch of headhunters and have lost any credibility,” Giuliani said, adding: “They’re desperately trying to revive their false story about Russian collusion. It’s not a legal issue, it’s a political issue.”

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Annie Deighnaugh

There need not be an *explicit* quid pro quo for there to be an imbedded threat...esp from a wannabe mobster like trump. Are you so naive as to not understand what it means to make someone an offer they can't refuse?

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Carro

In order for Trump's questions to be a threat, there had to be something behind it, like withholding money, like BIDEN DID. Trump did not do that.

BIDEN DID.

Are you so naive to think that Biden wasn't acting on behalf of the President?

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Annie Deighnaugh

First of all, you don't *know* what was said on the phone call...none of us do. Heck, we don't even have confirmation that that's what the whistleblower was talking about.

And we have no evidence that biden did anything wrong or did anything in regards to his son's position there...except the fake news you want to believe. If he offered a quid pro quo in furtherance of the interests of the United States ...that's called diplomacy. But to make implied threats to get a foreign nation to provide dirt -- real or made up -- on a political opponent? That's illegal.

But this is *not* about biden. The intelligence community wasn't blowing the whistle on biden about anything they saw or heard.

They *are* blowing the whistle in an "urgent and credible" fashion -- according to trump's own IG -- *on trump*. And it's actively being covered up by trump's personally appointed DNI *in defiance of black letter law* for a privilege *that does not exist*.

That is a serious issue. And it's not the first time trump has defied the law and ordered his people to do the same. He is defying the law and he is breaking the system of checks and balances the Constitution provides. He is turning our constitutional republic into a dictatorship and that needs to be stopped.

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Carro

Oh, wow, so the U.S. can withhold funds to extort Ukraine to fire a prosecutor?

A BILLION dollars!

We've no clue if Trump "defied the law". Sure looks like Biden did.

Imagine Trump bragging about quid pro quo like this!



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chase_gw

The investigation into the company that Hunter worked with had been dropped before Biden told the Ukraine that they had to clean up their corruption before they could expect aid.

There is a huge difference between telling a government to clean up it's act before they get aid and telling a foreign government to investigate your political rival. It's unfortunate you don't seem to be able to understand the difference.

If the transcripts or the complaint show that Trump told the Ukrainian PM to deal with the corruption in his government then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If however he, using his power and position as President of the United States, requested them to specifically investigate an American citizen and a political rival then that is an abuse of power.

I see that FOX and RW media are in full spin mode..........must mean Trump is concerned.

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Delilah66

Yes we can legally withhold funds from a country whose administration supports a corrupt prosecutor. Any time the US gives money there are conditions attached. Seems like a simple concept to understand.

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Delilah66

Chase, it’s falling on deaf ears.

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Eat Well

At least the Trump fans seem to have abandoned, “Hunter, Hunter, Hunter!”.

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cattyles

Trump had already held up the aid to Ukraine when he made his appallingly improper request. The threat was more explicit than if it was spoken.

Cait, your pompous comments to Annie are out of line. You don’t decide what gets posted and when. It might go over a little better if you applied it to some of the blatant lies told by your side.

Did you notice that your reaction was predicted near the top of the thread?

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chase_gw

A journalist who wrote a 12,000 word article looking into the Hunter " issue" went to the Ukraine to investigate, spoke to the government, spoke to the company and spent time with Hunter.

Interesting information...... the prosecutor that investigated the company and ended up dropping the investigation is NOT the prosecutor that was fired after Biden's comment.

The prosecutor was a different prosecutor who left the position in 2014 ( I don't know if he was fired or quit) after he had already dropped the investigation.

The prosecutor that was fired after Biden' s comment in 2015 was his successor and known to be corrupt.

Another thing he said was that Biden had a " don't ask don't tell " arrangement with his kids and brother Jimmy. The agreement was that they were not to tell Biden about their business dealings so that that information could never play a part , real or perceived, in any of his decision making. He said Biden did not know of Hunter' s involvement until news reports after the investigation was dropped, at that time his staff gave him a heads up.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Yes we know trump defied the law by telling the DNI to withhold the WB report from congress instead of following the law which requires him to do so. That is illegal.

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Joaniepoanie

If Trump has done nothing and has nothing to hide, why is he shutting down the investigation? How many times must we ask this question?

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chase_gw

Correction to post four above this post .....

I'm not sure I have all the dates right. The investigation into the company Biden worked for appears to have been dropped in 2014 or early 2015 . The new prosecutor was appointed in 2015 and then fired after Biden' Sr's comments in 2016.

The important thing is the prosecutor fired , after Biden let the US position be known, was NOT the prosecutor that investigated and subsequently dropped the investigation into the company Hunter Biden worked for.

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chase_gw

This untruth is appearing on the FOX news website...a taste of what the Trump supporters are being fed.

"Joe Biden, now a Democratic presidential candidate, has faced scrutiny
for months over his past role pressuring the country to fire its top
prosecutor while he was leading a corruption investigation into a
natural gas company that had ties to Hunter.
Giuliani has suggested that
Biden, as VP, worked to protect the company from investigation."

The corrupt prosecutor that Biden spoke against was NOT the prosecutor who was investigating the company Biden Jr worked for. It was the previous prosecutor. At the time Biden made those comments the investigation had been closed.

Hopefully the Trump supporters who listen to FOX will independently verify what FOX is reporting.

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leona_2008

Hopefully the Trump supporters who listen to FOX will independently verify what FOX is reporting.

Trying your hand at comedy, chase?

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chase_gw

Not really....I guess I just don't understand the mentality that takes what they hear on the "news" at face value. Some here are continually quoting what "so and so" on a RW media site said.......as if that makes it so. I just don't get it..and I'm glad I don't.

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Izzy Mn(4)

Well, I think we knew some desperate acts by Trump & Company & his cronies in the administration. Trump is frantically campaigning and pull every string possible to stay in office. If he stays for a second term and not impeached and thrown out of office he will have run the statue of limitations out on at least some of his crimes. I predict we will see even worse from him.

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Kathy

Izzy, if that happens I fear we will have an all out revolution because that means too many RW will have turned a blind eye to justice and Democracy.

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Carro

Now learning that the whistleblower complaint wasn't based on the whistleblower's personal knowledge of a phone call between President Trump and President Zelensky, but rather was based on information provided to him/her by a third party who doesn't work for the intelligence community.

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cattyles

Link?

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Carro

"The whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications, an official briefed on the matter told CNN. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning information that was not obtained during the course of their work, and those details have played a role in the administration's determination that the complaint didn't fit the reporting requirements under the intelligence whistleblower law, the official said.

It is hard to know the potential exposure faced by the President."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/donald-trump-whistleblower/index.html


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chase_gw

"Now learning that the whistleblower complaint wasn't based on the
whistleblower's personal knowledge of a phone call between President
Trump and President Zelensky,"

Learning from who Carro? Let's not forget Trump's appointee found the complaint both credible and urgent.....


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chase_gw

CNN is now good news!!!

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cattyles

Thank you. This only matters if the complaint is based on a lie.

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Carro

chase_gw

CNN is now good news!!!

There' s no saving face for you.


CNN. Pwned.

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whynottryit

"It is hard to know the potential exposure faced by the President.

But given the sensitivity of the issue, the complaint is likely to have come from an official familiar with the scope of presidential power. And it was signed off as "urgent and credible" by the inspector general -- a Trump appointee -- who thought Congress should know in line with whistleblowing laws.

The implication of such a fact pattern is staggering and opens up the potential of serious misconduct inside the White House -- despite Trump's denials of any wrongdoing."

Quote from Carro's link above.

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Carro

The question is whether this person is indeed a whistleblower or a leaker, especially given reporting that he or she does not have first-hand information and isn't intelligence.

If it's urgent and credible, certainly the DOJ is investigating. We'll see if the Democrats "shall" be given the information. I think that's tbd.

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whynottryit

"This only matters if the complaint is based on a lie."

Does it? No one has produced any tangible evidence of the contents of the actual complaint. All investigating/reporting has been done in the media. No official investigation reports have been made public. Even if the complaint says the White House is made of bleu cheese, the statements from Trump, Giuliani, the Ukranian government, etc., regarding the alleged complaint still stand. There is no poisonous tree here to spoil the fruits of this inquiry.

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Kathy

The WB went through all the proper channels. The IG said it was credible. Barr had no business interjecting his opinion to protect Trump. Justice is not served. It is up to Congress to decide.

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whynottryit

Yes, I'm sure Barr is doing a fine job.

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chase_gw

There is no question the person is a whistle blower. They followed the process faithfully and there is no evidence they have spoken about it to anyone but the IG.

I don't believe for one minute the DOJ is investigating, rather they are protecting. Would not surprise me one bit if Barr may even have been in the room. If not be has has most certainly seen the transcripts or spoken to people who were in the room.

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Carro

whynottryit

Yes, I'm sure Barr is doing a fine job.

I'll bet you just lurved Obama's wing man, right? The one who was willing to be held in contempt to protect him boss over Fast and Furious?

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Carro

chase_gw

There is no question the person is a whistle blower.

Yes, there is.

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chase_gw

In your mind. He went to the IG and followed the process as outlined by the law.

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Carro

Anyone can go to the IG. Given that it's hearsay, I'm not sure it qualifies.

Anyway, we'll find out and I'll be enjoying that extra hot sauce on my nothing burger.

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Kathy

The IG made a decision and ruled it credible. Now it goes to Congress. Barr is blocking justice.

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heri _ cles

What business did Guiliani have asking Ukrainian officials to investigate the Bidens?

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heri _ cles

What if the Ukrainian President confirms that Trump pressured him to investigate the Bidens? Will it then simply be Trump's word versus his?

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Carro


heri _ cles

What if the Ukrainian President confirms that Trump pressured him to investigate the Bidens? Will it then simply be Trump's word versus his?

Ukraine denies pressure. Ukraine confirms no quid pro quo.

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Eat Well

I love all these pronouncements defending Trump without any links. Pure Trump fan fic.

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Carro

As you can imagine, news sources have been all over this story and developments are coming in fast. So, no pronouncements.

It's helpful to keep informed by other internet sources than an echo chamber on the internet.


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Eat Well

Carro

As you can imagine, news sources have been all over this story and developments are coming in fast. So, no pronouncements.

It's helpful to keep informed by other internet sources than an echo chamber on the internet.

------------


"Ukraine confirms no quid pro quo" isn't a pronouncement? Right.

Please, share with us where you are finding all this fast breaking news. We'd love to "catch up" :)

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whynottryit

Amazing that you would project that image onto me, Carro. I actually had to do a quick refresher on the details of that operation because I didn't pay a lot of attention to government goings on during that time. My family experienced a lot of illness and death in those years so I had very little mindspace left for politics. However, from the quick perusal I just did, my initial thought is no, I don't "lurve" his actions. I also don't know all the particulars surrounding it or his reasoning but I was not emotionally invested in Obama's presidency either since I didn't vote for him. Contrary to your apparent assumptions, I am neither a one issue voter nor am I a life long liberal. The GOP simply moved too far right for my moderate senses. I hope you choose not to make such fanciful conjectures about my opinions again.

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cattyles

We’ll see what happens.

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Carro

Indeed we shall. We always do.

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Kathy

Trump was elected with the help of Russia and now he is trying to collude with Ukraine to win this election. They are lucky the WB came out or they might not have gotten their money.

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Eat Well

Perhaps you should Read Well, hmm?

A little effort on your part and you could be bringing these new developments over instead of having me spoon feed them to you, "Eat Well".

Yum, yum. Bon appetite!

————-

You post an interesting link and then trash any chance of conversation by adding juvenile insults. Congrats.

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whynottryit

Disagreeing with you equals me not being fully informed? That's a rather interesting attitude. What possible basis do you have for that statement?

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Carro


Kathy

Trump was elected with the help of Russia

Fantasy. Not supported by any facts for findings.

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heri _ cles

"I think there was no pressure" does not prove what Trump's intent was. You have ti stop spinning and read the text carefully.

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Carro


whynottryit

Disagreeing with you equals me not being fully informed?

I disagree with your insinuating Barr isn't doing his job fully. Yes, I think fully-informed people know there's simply no credibility to that conjecture.

Oh, I know it's cool to target Barr and what with Democrats holding him in contempt for sneezing, it must seem de rigueur, but really, there's no substance there.

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Carro


heri _ cles

"I think there was no pressure" does not prove what Trump's intent was. You have ti stop spinning and read the text carefully.

Thought crimes. Does America prosecute those yet?

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heri _ cles

What was Trump's purpose in dispatching Guiliani to meet wirh Ukrainian officials?

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whynottryit

Figliuzzi said, “Let’s look at the general counterintelligence problem. When you seek that kind of personal favor from a foreign leader, you are essentially handing him a means to compromise you. So, I hear a lot of talk about, well, who would have known, who would be in the room, who knows the content of this conversation? Well, it’s translators, it’s aides, it’s people in the intelligence community listening to the foreign leader. But let’s not forget one of the key people who knows exactly what happened in that conversation, and that’s the president of Ukraine. At any time now, the president of Ukraine, because he now owns our president, can come out and give us the dirt, the details, the skinny on a law that the president may have violated. That’s precisely why you can’t do this kind of thing with a foreign leader"

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/09/21/trump-owned-ukraine

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Eat Well

Yikes

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Carro

Yikes.

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heri _ cles

Ukraine if you're listening... Sounds like the start of a typicla Trump campaign..Can't help cheatin'.

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whynottryit

Carro, I will certainly not attempt to sway your opinion of him. However, my opinion of him is just as valid and I do not hold him in contempt for sneezing. He can sneeze all he pleases. What I do hold in contempt for is his handling of the DOJ.

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Kathy

President Donald Trump has finally admitted what many have known for more than two years: Russia helped elect him as president.

In a tweetstorm pushing back against the conclusions of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation — no collusion with Russia, maybe obstruction of justice — Trump either purposely or accidentally referred to Moscow’s preference for him in the 2016 election.

“Russia, Russia, Russia! That’s all you heard at the beginning of this Witch Hunt Hoax,” Trumptweeted on Thursday morning. “And now Russia has disappeared because I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected. It was a crime that didn’t exist.”

The key part there, just for emphasis, was “I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected.” In other words, “the Kremlin tried to help me win, but I didn’t coordinate with them.”

Just an hour later, though, he told reporters that Russia didn’t have anything to do with helping him win, contradicting his own tweet. “I got me elected. Russia didn’t help me at all,” the president said.

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Carro

Not a single vote was changed by Russia. Hillary was a terrible candidate and she lost. My God, it's been 3 years.

And if you're so convinced Russia got Trump elected, just remember, that happened under Obama's watch.

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Kathy

Trump asking Ukraine to listen to Rudy was for his gain and nothing else. If the WB hadn’t been made public Trump would possibly still be holding the money up for Ukraine.

Trump asked Russia for Hillary’s emails and the next day they had them. Spin that.

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Carro



Kathy

Trump asking Ukraine to listen to Rudy was for his gain and nothing else

Sure about that?

" Giuliani’s contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department.

Giuliani didn’t initiate it. A senior U.S. diplomat contacted him in July and asked for permission to connect Yermak with him.

Then, Giuliani met in early August with Yermak on neutral ground — in Spain — before reporting back to State everything that occurred at the meeting.

That debriefing occurred Aug. 11 by phone with two senior U.S. diplomats, one with responsibility for Ukraine and the other with responsibility for the European Union, according to electronic communications records I reviewed and interviews I conducted.

When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way.

(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ..."

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chase_gw

"Are you joking Chase? Carro stated reported news. Cattyles asked for a link. Carro immediately provides one (CNN), and this is your snarky response for something a poster very politely provided based on request? "

Give me a break. Everyday we hear how CNN is fake news by this very poster and then she uses is as her factual source ! Are they a real news source or are they fake? Can't have it both ways.

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chase_gw

"When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way"

OMG it's even worse than I imagined.......the State Department is in on the soliciting of foreign intervention in the 2020 elections!

One thing is clear Trump learned from 2016 that one can welcome foreign interference without consequence and now is pushing it one step further by actively soliciting it . Actively soliciting the help of a foreign government to bring down a political adversary......WOW!

Mind you I am a bit disappointed to learn Pompeo is complicit in that.......thank you Carro for providing that information.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Not a single vote was changed by Russia.

You don't know that. Russia published lies, e.g., that the pope endorsed trump...we don't know if that changed anyone's mind. We don't know how many votes may have changed as a result of their interference in the election from funding trump via the NRA to bots publishing lies about clinton and obama, to interference in the voter registrations of various states, including targeting key districts based on internal polling data they received from manafort. We don't know how many votes they supressed by publishing fake clinton posts telling voters they can vote by text. We don't know how effective trump's campaign making use of the democratic strategic playbook was in countering democratic efforts. We do know that they interfered. We do know that trump won by a very narrow margin in a handful of toss-up states.

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Andie

Everyday we hear how CNN is fake news by this very poster and then she uses is as her factual source ! Are they a real news source or are they fake? Can't have it both ways.


The hypocrisy is laughable.

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Andie

I will say I'll never be able to look at Guiliani the same. I'll always see one of our own.

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Carro

Annie Deighnaugh

Not a single vote was changed by Russia.

You don't know that

Yeah, I do, unless you have a source that shows Russia changed votes.

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chase_gw

My sense is that there are a lot of Republicans worried about this one......it's way to quiet.

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Carro


chase_gw

My sense is that there are a lot of Republicans worried about this one......it's way to quiet.

Wait, is the Left's hair on fire because Trump's been tweeting up a storm about UkraineGate, or is it way too quite?

Hoot?

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Andie

Trump's a little too obsessed with this one. It's always a good indication that something is rotten in Denmark.

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chase_gw

I said Republicans.....I didn't say Trump.

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Ann

Decide for yourself whether you think CNN is a valid source or fake news, that's completely beside the point. It's certainly a reasonable source to provide when a source is requested. The snark was the odd part of that exchange. It certainly made me wonder if the unexpected snark came as a result of not liking what the link said:)

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Andie

More insight into whistle blower...it's all about trump


Back to the OP. This is all about Trump. The Biden story has been debunked. Now it's time for Trump to pay the piper.

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chase_gw

" It certainly made me wonder if the unexpected snark came as a result of not liking what the link said:) "

No, I made the comment for exactly the reasons I said I did. Please do not pretend to know what I think or guess what my motivation is....

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Carro

The Biden story is far from over now that he's caught lying about not having any knowledge about Hunter's position with a foreign government, or having any conversations about it.


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Andie

It's over, Carro. He didn't lie, no matter how you try to spin it. Time to move on.

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chase_gw

Biden saying" I hope you know what you are doing" and Hunter replying " I do" AFTER Biden had been advised , by his aides, that there was an investigation into a company Hunter was doing business with constitutes a discussion about Hunters business? I suppose in Trump land.

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Carro

Yes, chase, one person talking to the other is a conversation. Hey, I'm not asserting. Hunter Biden did.

Got a snappy retort, probably best to direct it to Hunter.

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Andie



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Andie

So, has Trump denied that he repeatedly demanded the president of Ukraine investigate Hunter Biden? Must have missed it if he did.

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Delilah66

“Perhaps you should Read Well, hmm?”

Not allowed, Carro.


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Carro

Andie, you missed Ukraine denying Trump "demanded" anything? Maybe read outside of Houzz?

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Delilah66

“And if you're so convinced Russia got Trump elected, just remember, that happened under Obama's watch.”

It happened with the trump campaign’s knowledge and agreement. Obama did not benefit.

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Andie

Carro, can't even remember what you posted?


Zelenskiy’s office has so far declined to comment on the allegations.

“I know what the conversation was about and I think there was no pressure,” Prystaiko said. “This conversation was long, friendly, and it touched on many questions, sometimes requiring serious answers.”

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Delilah66

“LOL, oh for God's sake, suggesting another poster who obviously hasn't been following the news read a bit is somehow against the rules of posting?“

You were patently making fun of her name and THAT is not allowed. You’ve been on HT longer than I have. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

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Andie

Andie, you missed Ukraine denying Trump "demanded" anything? Maybe read outside of Houzz?


So quick to jump. You need to reread my comment and your own. You're missing the boat on both.


So, has Trump denied that he repeatedly demanded the president of Ukraine investigate Hunter Biden? Must have missed it if he did.

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Carro


Delilah66

“And if you're so convinced Russia got Trump elected, just remember, that happened under Obama's watch.”

It happened with the trump campaign’s knowledge and agreement. Obama did not benefit.

Oh, dear...Mueller found no collusion. Perhaps you missed the report?

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Ann

"My sense is that there are a lot of Republicans worried about this one......it's way to quiet."

My guess is Biden is likely the one most worried about this, but I'm happy to wait and see. The nothing burger scenario has a pretty good chance too, but I assume that like always, the Dems will play and overplay and a huge backfire, egg on their face outcome, has a pretty good likelihood.

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Delilah66

“Maybe read outside of Houzz?”

Yeah, what’s the name of that Russian news source the pub posters on HT read?

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Andie

Ann, Biden isn't worried about anything. The whole thing has been debunked. Where have you been?

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Delilah66

“You don't get to accuse ANYONE here of thought crimes.”

Two capitalized written words are not thoughts. There was no accusation of thoughts.

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chase_gw

Mueller found no criminal conspiracy...he did find collusion. In that case it was passive, in this case it is proactive. Mind you Trump has Barr so unless Congress acts nothing will happen. Barr is a disgrace.

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Andie



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Delilah66

“Oh, dear...Mueller found no collusion. Perhaps you missed the report?”

Nope. Read the entire document and watched the hearing. Selective memory is commonplace in donnieland, though.

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Carro

Delilah66

“Oh, dear...Mueller found no collusion. Perhaps you missed the report?”

Nope. Read the entire document and watched the hearing. Selective memory is commonplace in donnieland, though.

Hmm...sounds like an ad hom. Perhaps an admonition in in order!

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chase_gw

Trump is some fussed and getting more fussed......so easy for him to release the transcripts and the complaint and put the whole issue to bed...but he won't.

Watch for a highly edited and / or an abridged version of the Horowitz report this week...don't look here , look there.


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Carro

UkraineGate, we hardly knew ye...

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cattyles

Rabbit hole.

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Annie Deighnaugh
  1. russians *offered* dirt on hillary clinton, in writing, and sent it to djt-jr
  2. djt-jr replied, in writing, said he'd love it. He *accepted* their offer
  3. they set up and attended the meeting in trump tower...an *overt act* in furtherance of that scheme
  4. they lied about the meeting and its purpose, evidence of obstruction of justice and of a consciousness of guilt

Sounds like collusion to me...

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Delilah66

Whoever states Mr. Mueller found no collusion has selective memory. As for under whose presidency it occurred, qui bono?

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whynottryit

Rudy Giuliani accused me of exposing Paul Manafort’s Ukraine deals to help U.S. Democrats. That’s a lie.


By Serhiy Leshchenko

September 21, 2019 at 4:57 PM EDT

Serhiy Leshchenko is a Ukrainian journalist and political activist.

On Aug. 19, 2016, I convened a news conference in Kiev at which I revealed previously secret records of payments made by the former pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych to Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort. (Yanukovych fled the country in February 2014 after he was toppled by our Revolution of Dignity, a popular uprising on the streets of Kiev.) The information came from the “black ledger of the Party of Regions,” which was obtained by an anonymous source in the burned-out ruins of the headquarters of Yanukoych’s party. Yanukovych had used the ledger to keep records of his illegal transactions. At that time, although I was a member of parliament, I continued to combine that position with my journalistic work, which is allowed by the laws of Ukraine.

I will always be angry at Manafort. His work contributed greatly to Yanukovych’s election victory in 2010; Yanukovych then used his position as president to enrich himself and his inner circle. I have no doubt that Yanukovych paid Manafort for his services out of the funds he robbed from Ukrainian taxpayers.

Corruption is harmful whether it takes place America or Ukraine. My desire to expose Manafort’s doings was motivated by the desire for justice. Neither Hillary Clinton, nor Joe Biden, nor John Podesta, nor George Soros asked me to publish the information from the black ledger. I wanted to obtain accountability for the lobbyist whose client immersed Ukraine in a blood bath during the Revolution of Dignity and the subsequent war in eastern Ukraine, when Yanukovych called on Russia to send troops.

A federal judge in the United States later sentenced Manafort to 7½ years in prison for his many crimes. Among his offenses was his non-payment of taxes on undeclared income whose origins were revealed by Yanukovych’s secret accounts.

Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine the Manafort revelations would become fodder for the U.S. elections in 2020. President Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, the mouthpiece of this campaign, is not only attempting to rehabilitate Manafort but is also working to undermine U.S. relations with Ukraine, which has been confronting Russian aggression on its own for more than five years. Giuliani and his associates are trying to drag our newly elected president, Volodymyr Zelensky, into a conflict between two foreign political parties, drastically limiting Ukraine’s room for maneuver in respect to the United States, perhaps its most important international partner.

Giuliani attempted to visit Ukraine in May 2019 with the express purpose of involving Zelensky in this process. His aim was quite clear: He was planning to ask Zelensky to intervene in an American election on the side of Trump.

Zelensky refused, forcing Giuliani to cancel his trip. Shortly after that, Giuliani went on Fox News, where he called me “[an enemy] of the president [and] of the United States.” This accusation had a devastating effect on my political career. I had been helping Zelenksy’s team since January — but now Giuliani’s smear cost me a job in the new administration. Not wanting to create problems for Zelensky, I withdrew from consideration.

Giuliani's entire approach is built on disinformation and the manipulation of facts. Giuliani has developed a conspiracy theory in which he depicts my revelations about Manafort as an intervention in the 2016 U.S. election in favor of the Democratic Party. In his May interview on Fox, Giuliani even claimed that I was convicted of a corresponding crime.

The facts do not support this allegation. Here’s the truth: The administrative court — which has long had a reputation as the most corrupt in Ukraine — ruled in December 2018 that I had acted illegally by disclosing the payments to Manafort. We appealed, and the verdict was suspended. And in the summer of this year, we won the appeal and the court’s decision was completely annulled. The appeal concluded that all the charges against me were unfounded, and even obliged my opponents to reimburse me for $100 in legal costs.

But Giuliani continues to quote this court decision even though it never attained legal force.

Giuliani also persists in claiming that the “black ledger” is a fake. He stated this most recently just a few days ago in an interview with CNN. In fact, the book is a genuine document. Expert examinations have confirmed the authenticity of the signatures shown in it.

Giuliani has also been attacking the fearless activists from our Anti-Corruption Action Center, who managed to uphold their ideals even though they were persecuted by the previous government of President Petro Poroshenko.

By repeating this lie, Giuliani is not only deceiving American citizens. He is not only intervening in Ukrainian politics, smearing parliamentarians and officials of the presidential administration. He is also trying to drag the new president of Ukraine into an American election, which is absolutely unacceptable.

I know that leaders of the three U.S. congressional committees that are now investigating the whistleblower case have asked the White House and the State Department to share all correspondence regarding the people involved in this story, including me. As a person who has had direct experience of many of these events, I express my readiness to testify to the U.S. Congress about what has been happening for the past six months in the gray zone of Ukrainian-American relations.

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Eat Well

Please note that the one Ukrainian news article provided by Trump fans to defend him does not state, “Trump never called the Ukrainian leader and asked for info about the Bidens”. It also does not state, “Trump never discussed Biden related quid pro quo with the Ukrainian leader.”

“No pressure” does not mean that Trump did not make any Biden requests. If there was ultimately “no quid pro quo” it does not mean it was not discussed.




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chase_gw

Even if there was no specified quid pro quo the fact Trump was making this request as President of the United States would be hugely intimidating to someone who's country depends on military funding and loan guarantees from the US......especially since Trump was already withholding millions.

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chase_gw

Therefore, at the time of the phone call Trump was withholding the $250 M . Trump had also cancelled his trip to Poland where he was to meet with the PM. I suspect the call was something less than beautiful from the PM's perspective.

I can imagine that Graham is pretty upset about all of this...will he stand up and be counted? I don't expect any comments about the behaviour before the complaint is released, and the facts known, but I would expect Republican Senators to be demanding the release of the complaint to the Senate Intelligence Committee....should be an interesting week.

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Ann

Graham did a very long interview on Maria Bartiromo's show today on this topic and others. I'm not caught up on this thread, but I see Graham must have been discussed based on Chase's comment just above.

Graham very much wants a Biden/Ukraine investigation not unlike the Trump/Russia investigation. While Biden claims everything Ukraine has all been looked at and it's basically case closed, Graham feels nothing Ukraine has yet been looked at and it very much needs to be looked at.

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chase_gw

Did he offer any comments on the WB complaint and how it should be handled?

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leona_2008

Just more Graham trying to be relevant.

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Ann

Yup, he wants the whole situation looked at in its entirety and thoroughly - all things Ukraine and all people involved with Ukraine since prior to the 2016 election!

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Annie Deighnaugh

That's going to be really tricky for trump&co as, so far, what we know about ukraine comes to us via manafort who was a paid foreign agent for them, turned over internal polling data to them for russia, changed the gop platform for them and is now doing time for all the felonies he committed.

Are they sure they want intelligence looking into Ukraine???

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chase_gw

Did he have any comment on the WB complaint specifically ? Does he think Congress should be apprised given the IG deemed this urgent?

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Carro

Manafort? That's been investigated and it's over.

Pressure to not investigate Soros and the DNC's dealings with Ukraine to get dirt on Trump will be interesting.

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Ann

If Congress should be apprised, Chase. He wants the rules followed based on the specific information received, whether or not that results in Congress being apprised or not.

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Ann

"Are they sure they want intelligence looking into Ukraine???"

Yes, Graham was certainly very sure he wanted a full investigation!

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