Never Forget 9.11.01

catkinZ8a



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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

What does never forget mean? How could we forget that our desire for vengeance instead of justice led us to almost two decades of war? Never forget innocent people died because fanatics wanted blood. That is the impulse that drove the hijackers to slaughter thousands. May we never forget we can be better than that.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I'll never forget the innocents who did nothing wrong to warrant such an horrific death. The first responders who gave life and limb to help them as much as they could be. I'll never forget those who were trapped in stairwells and never got out. Those who called loved ones and talked to or left messages that were their last words. I'll never forget children on planes that slammed into buildings and incinerated them instantly. People who gave of their time and searched tirelessly to find human remains in piles of debris so that loved ones had closure... Now is the time to remember them. Today belongs to those folks. Let them rest. Hold them close in your heart.

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catkinZ8a

Well said.

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Kathy

Tell that to Trump who wanted to invite the Taliban to come to US on 9-11 anniversary. How warped is that?

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foodonastump

We all have our memories, whether personal or from TV coverage or from the subsequent documentaries...

Most people around here seem to have known someone, directly or indirectly. No, I’ll never forget Mike. Kristy was also a classmate though I didn’t know her as well. I’ll never forget the full-blown state of panic I was in watching the towers go down, with the last word from my sister being “they’ve ordered us back in the building.” (She was next door in World Financial Center, hours later I found out she was safe.) There are always reminders as you meet new people around town and hear their stories.

And no, I’ll never forget - or underestimate - the bravery of the first responders, many of whom are still struggling and need assistance.

But like Zalco, I’m not sure what the directive to “never forget” is supposed to mean. Call me cynical, but to me it always sounds like “never forget who your enemy is.” Just like so many in my father’s generation “never forgot” Pearl Harbor. No thanks.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

It means I won't turn my back on their memories, food.

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foodonastump

Could you expand on that? What, specifically, does that mean?

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patriciae_gw(07)

I agree with Zalco and Food. It was a learning moment for us and I don't think we learned anything. Innocent people are still dying both our damaged responders and the people we have targeted to release our anger on. The fact that we have to fight every single year for our responders to get the help they will continue to need makes our claims of never forgetting hollow. We could have internalized that fact that the pain we feel over our deaths is the same that others feel when drone bombs fall on their homes.

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elvis

Voices From Inside the Towers is on right now (History Channel), very moving.

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foodonastump

Sorry Rob - I just realized Houzz isn’t letting me edit my post for some reason. Here’s what I tried to ETA:

ETA - never mind, I re-read your first post. I’m good with all that and share all your sentiments. I just don’t need anyone to tell me to do all that. And have an aversion to the typical messenger.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

In addition to rob’s eloquent response, for me “never forget” means to always remember the sick, sick tension of watching and waiting on that day and the feeling of connectedness and somber love for each other of the days to follow.

The human reaction to tragedy is universal and that’s what I want to remember.

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woodnymph2_gw

I have European friends and what I most remember is their solidarity with the grief that we Americans were feeling. I had especially beautiful and moving letters from my French friends after 9-11. They had been moved to tears by these horrific events. As well, a beautiful letter from German friends moved me very much.

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elvis

Patriciae wrote: The fact that we have to fight every single year for our responders to get the help they will continue to need makes our claims of never forgetting hollow.

???

Updated on: July 29, 2019 / 11:39 AM / CBS News

President Trump signed a bill Monday to care for the surviving first responders of the 9/11 terror attacks and their families. The legislation, which the Senate voted to reauthorize last week, makes the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund permanent...No Democratic representatives were present for the signing...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-911-first-responders-bill-today-2019-07-29-live-updates/

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graywings123(7)

"No Democratic representatives were present for the signing, including the bill's lead sponsor. Jon Stewart, who catapulted the issue to the forefront of the political discussion earlier this month when Congress was stalling on the legislation, was also not there. A White House official claimed every member of Congress was invited to the event, although the House and Senate are in recess and the event was announced last minute."

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Yea, my first post is what I mean when we take at least a moment to remember how wrong it was for them. Glad to know editing isn't working for someone other than me.

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Janie

Tell that to Trump who wanted to invite the Taliban to come to US on 9-11 anniversary. How warped is that?

And he'll never forget that "‘thousands’ of New Jersey Muslims celebrated the 9/11 attacks"

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Ziemia(6a)

Moscow Mitch had to be shamed to let that 1st Responders bill get a vote.

I remain in awe at the sacrifices of so many First Responders. And share that with my grand kids.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

'Never forget' and 'thoughts and prayers' have become platitude checklists. They are five second check-offs on the to-do list. It is on par with 'If there is anything I can do, just ask', and then if you ask for the simplest of tasks to be done, the offeror gets indignant that you actually took them up on their empty offer.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

???

I remember graywing's version. elvis' version was manufactured into being by the republicans so they can point and dizzy spin later. I'm sure we will see the latter version umpteen times in the next decade, but I'll 'Never Forget'.

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foodonastump

So what do you want to discuss, catkin? You posted a never forget picture with no words. I imagine that felt really patriotic for you. What do you want to discuss?

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patriciae_gw(07)

The support needs to be made perpetual so that it doesn't have to come to a vote every blasted year. They need to know they can rely on it for their life.

Rob, you did put it so well and I meant to say something to that as well. Innocents are innocents the world over. I could wish their loss would make us think about the losses of others.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I agree patriciae. I think we should learn from this. We should find the other innocent lives on the other side of the world as our brothers and sisters. Our children. And make sure it doesn't happen to them either. We are our brother's keeper

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catkinZ8a



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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

We should never forget the horror of attacks against civilians, and we should pledge that no attacks against civilians are done in our name.

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margaritadina

''

Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Never
forget innocent people died because fanatics wanted blood. That is the
impulse
that drove the hijackers to slaughter thousands.

''

Nope, They call our military ''crusades''. Does it ring any bells? Count a 1000 years back, read history, get an idea. You can start with Templiers.

They were quiet for while but they never stopped sharpening their butcher knifes for Christian throats. Just listen to Omar speaking about white men. Imagine what's going on on the other side of the globe.

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margaritadina

''

Kathy

Tell that to Trump who wanted to invite the Taliban to come to US on 9-11 anniversary. How warped is that?

''

Tell that to Obama who was going to allow building a mosque near Ground Zero and who imported Islamic terrorists mass murderers.


I'll never forget victims and heroes of the Ground Zero. Including four legged ones.

One visually impaired man who worked in one of the Twin Towers released his assistant dog because he didn't want the dog to die along with him. The dog panicked at first but came back and led it's human out, carefully chosing the safe paths, about 70 people joined the pair on the way down from the building and all of them survived.

Two men carries a handicap person 70 storeys down and didn't give up until they made it out safe.

Just two stories of humble heroism out of many....post ones that you know.



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elvis

patriciae_gw(07)

The support needs to be made perpetual so that it doesn't have to come to a vote every blasted year. They need to know they can rely on it for their life.

Patriciae, it is perpetual. You didn't know?

In July, the bitter and protracted battle to compensate 9/11 first responders who fell ill in the aftermath of the attacks finally came to an end. President Trump signed a permanent extension of funding for the Victim Compensation Fund into law which will authorize $10.2 billion for the next 10 years along with additional funding until 2090 which will cover surviving 9/11 first responders for their entire lives. A grim new statistic highlights just how important it was to pass that legislation. Officials recently told ABC News that 241 NYPD officers have now died in the 18 years since the attacks - 10 times the number killed on 9/11 when 23 lost their lives.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/09/11/18-years-on-911-illnesses-devastating-first-responders-infographic/#aa24315343ab

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margaritadina

''

President Trump signed a permanent extension of funding for the Victim Compensation Fund into law

''

KUDOS to him.

''

I don't hate Muslims. I know the historyof the Southern and Eastern Europe, Central Asia VERY well - smart people learn from someone else's mistakes, stupid people learn from their own mistakes.

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cattyles

You haven’t learned how to fact check.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Margaritadina, I am a practicing Catholic. I would be horrified to be judged by the fundamentalists of my religion. Most Muslims are not hateful toward Christians. I will not judge an entire people based on the extremist views of their fundamentalists.

Furthermore, and probably more importantly, the 9/11 attacks were not religious in nature. Most of what has passed for religious strife through the ages was more about power, politics and resources than it was about scriptures and rites. Would Henry VIII have been granted an annulment had his wife been from the Kingdom of Bohemia instead of Spain?

As someone who has had a front row seat to the spectacle of Arabism in the 20C, I caution Westerners about falling into an us and them trap. Arabs used the cudgel of identity politics to rid themselves of colonialism. Unfortunately, they became infected with a virus of continual division, pitting one tiny faction against the other and allowing external forces to control them in perpetuity.

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shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

"Never Forget."

Most of these people were innocent civilians with families who loved them, children, mothers...and there were many valiant attempts at rescue from 1st responders. Do people remember them, or even care?

"An Iraqi Kurdish intelligence report estimated that at least 40,000 civilians were killed in
the bombardment of Mosul alone, with many more bodies still buried in
the rubble. A recent project to remove rubble and recover bodies in just
one neighborhood found 3,353 more bodies, of whom only 20% were
identified as ISIS fighters and 80% as civilians. Another 11,000 people
in Mosul are still reported missing by their families..."

A Little Perspective...

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elvis

shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

"Never Forget."

Most of these people were innocent civilians with families who loved them, children, mothers...and there were many valiant attempts at rescue from 1st responders. Do people remember them, or even care?

Isn't that what we're talkin' about here, shax? The victims of the terrorist attacks?

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shaxhome(Frog Rock, Australia 9b)

No, Elvis. I'm watching a sad example of American exceptionalism.

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elvis

I don't get that, but okay.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Thank you Elvis for that information. I hadn't heard and it is welcome news. It has taken far too long.

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elvis

I guess I could've done a thread on it 2 months ago when it became law, but it never occurred to me that you guys focus on bad news. It took me 2 tries to get you to listen to this. Here was the first try.

elvis

Patriciae wrote: The fact that we have to fight every single year for our responders to get the help they will continue to need makes our claims of never forgetting hollow.

???

Updated on: July 29, 2019 / 11:39 AM / CBS News

President Trump signed a bill Monday to care for the surviving first responders of the 9/11 terror attacks and their families. The legislation, which the Senate voted to reauthorize last week, makes the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund permanent...No Democratic representatives were present for the signing...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-911-first-responders-bill-today-2019-07-29-live-updates/


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mudhouse

I know this is late to add to this thread, but I've not seen it until tonight. A 12 minute documentary about the boatlift operation carried out on 9/11, to evacuate over 500,000 civilians from Manhattan in less than 9 hours. It was apparently the largest sea evacuation in history.

It will help you remember the good things you know about people, when they need to find a way to come together.


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patriciae_gw(07)

OK, I take it back since you didn't want it. I am nothing if not polite.

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terrene(5b MA)

How could anyone who lived in the US in 2001, was older than the age of 5 or 10 years, had an IQ higher than 70, and didn't live under a rock ever forget? Stupid meme.


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Ziemia(6a)

https://youtu.be/kaH0vLf7NNk

Per queen's order, played at Buckingham palace the morning of 9.12.01


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cattyles

Thanks for that, Ziemia. You’d think we would never allow ourselves to become so divided as Americans after that.

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elvis

I found this wonderful piece from 2017.

The fact that it's been 14 years since the attacks on September 11, 2001 makes me feel — among other, more complex reactions -- very old. This is the first monumental world event I've lived through, one my niece and nephew will eventually learn about in social studies class. It will exist for them only as a section in a text book or the subject of a research paper. It will be distant, static.

They will know it's important, sure, just as we know the importance of JFK's assassination and the attack on Pearl Harbor. But, it will feel resolved to them; it will be intangible. Social studies is where I was, in fact, carelessly swinging my legs as I sat at a desk in a bright classroom. I was 12 years old, and wearing what I considered very impressive "flood pants" from Old Navy...

But maybe, we assumed it was an accident. Maybe, on some collective level, we were protecting ourselves, biding just a little more time before we were forced to confront the piercing reality that was upon us. We wouldn’t really start to absorb the news until the next announcement a couple of minutes later. The principal told us to go wait in the gym with the rest of the students and teachers until our parents picked us up, and that grief counselors were available for anyone who might need them...

These unprecedented terrorist attacks dismantled an entire country that day, and with them, for better or worse, they helped configure an entire demographic. Maybe, Millennials were always destined to become a balance-hungry, passion-prioritizing generation; or maybe, the events of 9/11 soberly bound us to each other and, out of emotional necessity, to the world around us...

On top of all the grief-laden clambering that followed 9/11, a slow-boiling hate also surfaced, the likes of which I had only ever read about in history books and novels. Some people decided that clinging to ignorance, casting ill-informed, superficial blame was somehow justified because of the universal pain around them.

That was another lesson Millennials learned, I suppose. Human nature can sometimes be disappointing, and people can be illogically cruel. Even when you expect them to seek out and offer kindness, many will do just the opposite...

I like to think that for Millennials, though, witnessing that reckless, confusion-fueled rhetoric ultimately just contributed to our heightened sense of empathy and appetite for tolerance...

Years have piled on since the Towers came down. Those seventh graders have become tax-paying, life-living adults, and thousands of grieving families have slowly pieced their lives together again. For some, the idea of "9/11" has been re-appropriated into just that: a shapeshifting ideology, a buzzword.

While its specific intentions vary depending on those utilizing it, its mention generally seems to seek a unified, emotional response attached to either a call-to-action or larger-scale policy change...

Each year, I let myself reflect on what happened. While I know that sifting through my seventh grade journal and rereading sob-inducing news articles won’t make me suddenly comprehend the still-perplexing nuances of that day, it’s become something of a comforting habit. September 11 took a lot from us, but it also gifted us — Millennials, especially — with a unique responsibility. With no warning, in the middle of our otherwise-charmed childhoods, we saw behind the curtain of the human experience. We were suddenly privy to how drastically and devastatingly things could shift. That sense of urgency that lives within our generation? Maybe, it's not accidental; maybe, it's supposed to serve as a reminder...

Maybe, we live our lives with borderline-delusional courage, unconventional work ethics and a ferocious need to customize our futures. This is not because we have no regard for the gravity of life, but because we are all-too-familiar with its fragility.

To read the whole piece: https://www.elitedaily.com/news/911-shaped-generation-y/1205849

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elvis

ETA: Quote should be italicized above ^^^. Darn edit feature...

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chisue

Nothing happens in a void.

We attack another nation, to 'rescue' it, for 'nation building', because we can and it's profitable. They retaliate. We retaliate.

IMO there's not enough forgetting of only our own losses and too much forgetting about how we bring it on ourselves.

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Carro

mudhouse, thank you for posting the boat lift video. Unfortunately, it's not well known, yet it was bigger than Dunkirk.

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elvis

IMO there's not enough forgetting of only our own losses and too much forgetting about how we bring it on ourselves.

Do you feel that it would be appropriate to express your sentiment ^^^ to the families of the 911 victims?

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