Where are you?

In the nyc area NY. Zone 6b maybe even 7

Hmmm. For me in 6b, Maggie died way back. She recovered and is a lovely rose that I would encourage you to grow regardless. However, I have a sensitive nose and do not find her always fragrant. For an older rose in a ligher shade, take a look atLa Reine. For a modern one, I've been very impressed thus far with Bordeaux. And then there is always Valentine which many, but not all, find to have a strong lovely fragrance.

These two roses are pretty different. It's like choosing between a Mazda Miata and a minivan because they're a similar color. If you can, try to see them locally to see if one or the other will work for you.

I've never grown Grande Dame but have seen it in a nursery or garden somewhere, can't remember. It struck me as an upright bush with several large individual flowers on it, typical of many hybrid teas, Hybrid teas, hybrid perpetuals and Austins don't do too well for me so I didn't spend more than a quick look. I don't remember the fragrance, (I think it had some) nor do I know how healthy it is or how frequently it blooms. I hope someone who lives in your area will volunteer that info.

I had Maggie for over 15 yrs. but lost her after the second hard (for us) winter in a row several years ago and after losing half her roots to voles. Maggie is a shrub worthy of the name. For me she was around 5' tall and maybe 7 or 8' wide. She bloomed in big flushes of purplish red old-fashioned roses in clusters or individually on short stems. She had some blackspot in my no-spray garden but not enough to slow her down. Fragrance was dependent on weather conditions. She reminded me of a bourbon-China cross but of course nobody knows the background. She was tolerant of heat and drought, poor soil and some shade in my garden and an easy care rose for the most part. She did not like temps below -0- F. If these occur in many of your winters, it might be wise to choose a different rose unless you have a protected spot. I plan on getting her again someday but need to find a different spot to plant her since the tree in that garden has grown larger.

Thank you Vap! You always have great and interesting recommendations for me. Roses that I dont know, and might not get to know easily, and so get me to read and grow. I have learned so much from you, just taking a minute to say that and thank you. It was you actually who encouraged me to go for maggie in an earlier thread. Maggie died back for you? I didnt know maggie was that sensitive to cold. I thought also that Maggie was specially fragrant...not so much? I think its so pretty though...I will give it a second thought now, but not out by any means. La Reine sounds wonderful, just the kind of rose I like, maybe not for this drift that I am thinking of, but in another bed.

ken, thank you for your thoughts and such a detailed explanation. Yes I have a lot to learn about specific roses...so much to learn.

Thank you Ben. I am quite encouraged to get this rose and try it out!

Katyajini, I'm glad you're asking questions and I'm glad Ben shared his experience with GD. While I can't grow hybrid teas now, someday it might be helpful to me. And vaporvac, you've been super helpful because we grow many of the same roses.

Kes I am sorry, way above I referred to you as ken. I dont like hybrid teas. Just dont. Dont like that form and I associate (probably inaccurately) they are like the nearly plastic looking gas station roses. However after being on this forum I am tempted badly to try them out for the first time because of the comments about their fragrance and how many blooms these plants put out. I may end up not liking them but for now I will give a open hearted try.

Why is it that you cant grow them, if I might ask?

I grow Young Lycidis and as much as I love it , the blooms are a glorious color, I would hesitate to grow it next to .Grand Dame

Young Lycidis has like 60 canes going all different directions. Sticking straight out to the right and the left. Most canes are floppy but not in a pretty flowing .

The blooms make up for its growth habit but I don't think he is a great neighbor

kristine_legault's ideas · More Info

I don't have YL, but have wanted it to grow over a stone retaining wall. I've often read it's best grown that way where it can be it's true sprawling self! : )) Yours is so pretty, Kristine!

Katya, I in NO WAY meant to discourage you from Maggie. It's a gorgeous rose and very vigorous even if slightly tender. I covered mine with pine boughs and oak leaves to protect it which worked fairly well if you can keep the leaves from packing. I think you may be warmer than I also. We got to -7F. for several nights last winter and spent many days in the single digits. It is also a very fragrant rose, just not always so. Some roses, such as LaFrance, are fragrant from bud to spent petals. Maggie is not like that, but few are for me. It's a very elegant rose with a casual natural growth habit. It won't disappoint. I liked it so much, I grew another! You and Kes are too sweet. I grow so many roses because after exhaustive research I just say, "The heck with it!", and get them all! That way I can see what does best and it's always a surprise! BS is my worst problem along with midge, but they are well under control and hopefully will be a memory by next year.

Thanks for letting me know Kristine! I do what to grow Lycidas but maybe in a different spot. Do you think either of these would work? Could I anchor the canes horizontal-ish on a trellis to fill the area below a tall climber? Or in the front of a border just let it flop over a low support? Or does it stiffen and straighten up after a few years? Does the fragrance waft for you?

Vap: I am going to get maggie.

Pretty Lady Rose is a much improved version of Grand Dame. It is equally as fragrant, same flower form and color, but having a much better bush shape. Grand Dame is lanky. Pretty Lady Rose is very tailored, and a good bit shorter, 3' as compared to GD's 5' height. PLR doesn't nod like Grand Dame does, very badly for me.

Your plans to plant multiple bushes in a drift will be better served with Pretty Lady Rose.

I shovel pruned Grand Dame this spring because of its chronic flower nodding, and heavy winter dieback, even well protected. No regrets.

Nodding is a MAJOR fault to me. In a wet climate like mine, 3/4 of the time my nodding roses look pathetic with all the rain I get. In a dry climate, nodders could more easily be tolerated, not here, and not by me. Too many PROUD roses to select from.

Austin roses just drop their petals too quickly for me. Evelyn is the ONLY Austin I know of whose flower has staying power. Too bad Evelyn's bush itself just doesn't put on size for me. Its flower is tops, though.

Moses

I actually think trellising young lycidas would be a really good way to showcase its beautiful blooms.

I agree with Moses that the pretty lady rose is a wonderful upright rose, great color fragrance and no nodding

kristine_legault's ideas · More Info

Moses thanks for pointing to PL. I imagine nodding can be a big problem for me too because we get a lot of rain in spring and early summer when roses are blooming all out. Its sad but thats it. I am just beginning to think about DA roses so thanks for the heads up on Evelyn,

Kristine thank you...it so nice to have advice about planting successfully...

If you can get Evelyn grafted on multiflora, first choice, then Dr. Huey, second choice, I think the shot in the arm a more cold tolerant root system that would provide could do it. It just stalled, sulked every spring until it got good and hot, then made progress, but not enough time left to build up size. Repeated same every year, inching along in size. A vigorous root system which kicks in early when it's still cold spring could nudge Evelyn into an earlier start, resulting in a bigger bush by season's end to build upon next year, and on.

Evelyn certainly loves heat, repeats very quickly, un-Austin like, and the flowers last a long time. They also take heat very well without drooping. Then there's its fragrance....unforgettable. Austin's best rose, IMHO, but still a black spotter here, but I spray, so that's not such a big negative for me.

Moses

Thank you Moses, so much! I look forward to Evelyn, specially the scent!

Katy, give Boscobel consideration. This rose is the right color, has big blooms and lots of them. I grow Young Lycidas, too, and have for a number of years. Boscobel is the better rose, though I like YL, too. Diane

Oh nanadoll! beautiful! beautiful! beautiful! Your garden, your roses are breath taking. thank you. Yes I must consider boscobel. And what is the yellow rose behind it? Do you enjoy the fragrance? I dont know what to make of it from the description on DA website.

Katy, thank you. The yellow rose is Golden Celebration, an Austin I have grown for years. It's huge and a favorite of mine. And always in bloom at least a little. Boscobel's fragrance isn't much compared to other Austin roses. GC does have pretty good fragrance. Are you asking about the description of Boscobel? I've grown mine for several years and its about 5X5 feet at the end of this season in zone 7 with no dieback from winter. It's a nicely shaped bush and doesn't produce a lot of long floppy canes (Young Lycidas tends to that kind of growth, though I like it, especially where it is located). Boscobel would be easy to control, I think. It blooms a lot. Here are a couple of photos. Diane

You can see it has a bit of color variation depending on the temperature and time during the season. I like all of it. Diane

Right now, in So Cal, Maggie is nearly white with powdery mildew. Grande Dame is absolutely clean and about to burst into abundant bloom. Yes, the necks nod but the blooms are at 6' so the nodding helps get it to the noses of those who are height challenged.

Thats a good thought hugogurll. My yard is on sharp incline and parts of it are terraced. Its a great idea to plant GD where people would be walking under it. Tnaks!

How would Dee lish fit in here? I just read about this rose. Deep pink, very fragrant, tall and floriferous?