Canada's October election

Ann

The Canadians on HT told us their election season is short, but it appears to finally be here.

I'll start off the conversation with this interesting article about a move toward populism and a poll that reminds me of trends we've certainly seen in the U.S. in recent years.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5860959/canadians-society-politics-ipsos-poll/?utm_expid=.kz0UD5JkQOCo6yMqxGqECg.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F


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Ann

Here is an interesting article about Trudeau's take on the rise in populism.

https://ipolitics.ca/2019/08/29/trudeau-says-populism-and-nationalism-are-to-blame-for-cynicism-towards-politicians/

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Ann

I have been wondering how Canada's new election anti-speech laws would work out. Maybe not so well.


https://bizadpros.com/news/opinion-canadas-left-finally-learns-the-pitfalls-of-anti-speech-laws/

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HamiltonGardener

I’m going to have to vote early. I have a cross Canada train trip booked for that week.

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Ann

HG, is early voting common there as it is here?

I hope you have a wonderful trip. Will it be the right time for good fall leaves or will the leaves have fallen by then?

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HamiltonGardener

Not sure how common it is, truthfully.


If if all goes right, I will have fall colours in Ontario and snow through the mountains.


The prairies will go by too quickly.

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roxsol

HamiltonGardener, I love travelling by train. The across Canada VIA Rail trip is fantastic. My favourite VIA Rail trip is the Skeena run between Jasper and Prince Rupert.

Have a safe and relaxing trip.

My husband and I vote early as well, whether we are going away or not.

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tryingtounderstand

HG if you end up Banff way, you should try the Rocky Mountaineer Trip. https://www.rockymountaineer.com/


Nothing beats those fall colours, I chuckle when folk in BC rave about western fall colours. They just don’t know what they’re talking about.

as for voting, sheesh how does one decide. Trudeau has scandal and experience, sheesh, I don’t know if he will be any better than Trudeau. What can be said.



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HamiltonGardener

We are doing The Canadian with VIA Rail, so the route will be through Edmonton-Jasper.

I love sleeper trains, some romanticism around them I just can’t get enough of.

We will spend a couple days in Vavcouver which is one city I am unfamiliar with, so if anyone has a suggestion of what to do if you only have a day or two... I’d appreciate it.


As for this election, I voted for Trudeau last time but I am disappointed with that choice and with the way his people are handling things. I probably won’t vote for him again but I don’t see a good alternative.

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Ann

Is there some specific reason Trudeau has declined to attend the 9/12 and 10/1 debates? Do Canadians watch these debates with interest?

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chase_gw

Have a great trip HG. I share your voting dilemma!

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HamiltonGardener

Could be any reason, really. He is attending 3 of the 5 debates.

He could be avoiding specific issues, or he could be strategically campaigning at that time. My first reaction is that he’s avoiding certain topics, but I will give Trudeau his due. He doesn’t tend to shy away from nasty topics.

However, I hope they allow Bernier a chance to debate, especially if Trudeau won’t be there.

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HamiltonGardener

Chase, I think we all feel the same way.


I‘ll say it again, I miss Chretien.



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Ann

HG, it appears the topics of those first two debates are foreign policy, economy, indigenous issues and the environment. Which would you guess Trudeau might want to avoid?

Why has Bernier not yet been invited to 4 of the debates?

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tryingtounderstand

HG, while in Van. You may want to see, Granville Isle, Stanley Park, Gas Town. Not sure if your planning to cross over to Victoria. If you have the chance, highly recommendEd especially the Butchart Gardens. The ferry ride itself is worth the crossing.

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Ann

"A People’s Party statement said Bernier is “very disappointed” in the commission’s preliminary decision, and said the commission appears to be relying “solely on polls.” Bernier had sent a letter to the commission arguing that “the recent political context in Canada and other Western democracies suggests that a populist party, even though it was founded only very recently, had an excellent chance of rapid growth and electing candidates.”

Do the Canadians think the last sentence of this quote is true, that the new People's Party does have an excellent chance of rapid growth and electing candidates?

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chase_gw

After the last election a Commision was formed consisting of most of the major broadcasters and media outlets . The purpose was to ensure participation as well as to have them broadcast widely not just on specific networks.

These two debates were not set up by the Commission and the Liberal party has said they will only participate in the " official " Commision debates.

If there is another reason I'm unaware of it . Trudeau is an accomplished debater and as HG mentioned Trudeau is not one to shy away from hot topics.

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tryingtounderstand

Polls show a toss up between Trudeau and Scheer. 33.8% Scheer and 33.4% Trudeau. Though the economy and employment situation are ok Trudeau’s Lavalin scandal is hurting him terribly. Trudeau plans to bring up gun control in his campaign especially since gun related deaths are on the rise.

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chase_gw

Last analysis I saw showed a liberal win based on seats, not necessarily a majority though. Scheer is not doing well , at least not well enough, in Ontario. It was very interesting , I'll see if I can find it.

ETA

Here it is.....scroll down a bit to section on predictions based on seats......looks good for the Liberals........at least this view.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

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Ann

If no party gets a majority 170 seats, what happens then?

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chase_gw

Then there is a minority government led by the party with the most seats.

Edited to say seats rather than votes

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Ann

Now that the campaign season is here, do the polls tend to get more or less movement during these campaign weeks?

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chase_gw

Depends totally on whether there is some significant event. The debates may move the numbers but one or the other of them will have to do something significant to have things change much.

Justin is a known, his missteps are well understood ......Scheer on the other hand just gets worse and worse in my view.

We' ll see..my bet is a Liberal minority.

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Ann

It sounds like some Canadians are now feeling as if they will vote to support the MP (thus PM) who represents the lesser of two evils. That is certainly a sentiment sometimes felt by Independent/Unaffiliated voters in the U.S. Sometimes even by Republicans and Democrats too. Voting against a person or policy can often be as motivating as voting for a person or policy.

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chase_gw

"It sounds like some Canadians are now feeling as if they will vote to support the MP (thus PM) who represents the lesser of two evils. "

Not sure what it is you are " hearing" to lead you to have that opinion. I think voters will vote for their preferred candidate or vote for someone like May if they cannot bring themselves to vote for Trudeau or Scheer.

What I do see is a lot of softening around Trudeau' s misteps and a renewed focus on what he has done well.

My SIL, a die hard Conservative , is trying to convince me to vote Liberal. She says she has no issue with his position on Lavalin given what a huge employer they are and is very impressed with his moves on equality , indigenous peoples and particularly how he has stood up to Trump and China.........she despises Scheer.


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roxsol

I will be voting Conservative. As an Albertan, I see the Conservatives as the lesser of two evils.

Chase, I think there might be a bit of forgiveness going on for Trudeau right now.

You could be wrong about a Liberal minority.

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chase_gw

Cross posted.......

Interesting you support Ann' s views on the lesser of two evils. Funny I'm not hearing much of that but then again I'm in Ontario and right now there is a very anti Conservative sentiment. May have something to do with Ford...ya think !!!

Yes very good chance Trudeau wins a majority but I'm still leaning minority...but for sure a Liberal win.

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chase_gw

When I reread Ann's post I think I understand better what she is saying and I agree........yes a vote against rather than a vote for.

That's what I think will happen in the US too come 2020.

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Ann

In the U.S. in 2020, I think many Republican votes will be "for Trump". I think nearly all Dem votes will be "against Trump", and if someone like Warren (who is generating significant enthusiasm) wins the nomination, also "for the Dem candidate". I think Independent votes will mostly be either "against Trump" or "against policies too left for the voter to accept/handle".

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ubro(2a)

As a Saskachewanite, I will definitely give Scheer a pass, double pass if I could. I don't like the Conservative policies on climate change, abortion rights, privitization, immigration, and their penchant for giving the wealthy more wealth. I may have to hold my nose and vote Liberal, but I am a person who votes on the policies of the day, not the party, so we will see.

Ann, Bernier's party did not qualify for debate status, to be considered the party must meet certain criteria.

Political parties must meet two of three criteria in order to be invited to the debates. The first is that the party is represented in the House of Commons by an MP who was elected under the party’s banner. The second is the party intends to endorse candidates in at least 90 per cent of ridings in the election. Bernier qualifies for the second one, but the not the first (he was elected as a Conservative candidates and then left the party).

That means Bernier must qualify for one of the two options in the third criterion. The first option is that the party received at least four per cent of votes in the last election — but this doesn’t work for Bernier, as his party didn’t exist then.

The second option — and the crucial issue at stake here — is that “based on the recent political context, public opinion polls and previous general election results, the Commissioner considers that candidates endorsed by the party have a legitimate chance to be elected in the general election in question.” link https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/new-debate-commission-excludes-maxime-bernier-from-participating-in-official-election-debates-for-now

I assume that is to make sure that not every person, who thinks they have enough support of citizens, can be on the stage, it could get mighty crowed up there. If you want to use the debates as your soap box, then you have to at least be a legitimate party and have done the work to deserve the platform, if not, there is always next time.

As to Trudeau not participating in the debates, historically many of the sitting PM's don't attend them all and I for one don't and won't watch any. They spout and argue and frankly I do better researching their policies online.

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HamiltonGardener

Ann

10 hours ago

HG, it appears the topics of those first two debates are foreign policy, economy, indigenous issues and the environment. Which would you guess Trudeau might want to avoid?


He probably wouldn’t want to avoid any of them. I think he could show some strong cases for economy, indigenous, and environmental issues.

On foreign policy, I think he has done horribly but what I view as bad, he and his supporters actually view as a strength, so I don’t think he would avoid that.

There may be some specific economy problems but again, there are always good things to point out as a counter.

On indigenous issues, he has been handing out cheques to native groups on a massive scale. He has given formal apologies for almost everything in Canadian history. I think he can play a strong hand there, certainly stronger than any other party.

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HamiltonGardener

TTU,

We won’t have time to go to Vancouver Island, which is too bad. I used to live there for a time as a child. Might be fun to visit. Stanley Park will be on the list.

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HamiltonGardener

Do the Canadians think the last sentence of this quote is true, that the new People's Party does have an excellent chance of rapid growth and electing candidates?


Ann,

I think they have a chance of rapid growth, yes.

I doubt they have much chance of any candidates elected outside of Bernier himself, and even that is iffy.

That said, there are a number of Bernier’s policies I can agree with, others not so much.

Of course, there are a number of Green Party policies I agree with too.

Like most Canadians, I don’t toe a party line. The questions for me are, which of these platforms can I find most in common, which do I think are realistic (rather than idealistic), and which satisfy my all important focus on fiscally responsible government.

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chase_gw

Agree HG, Trudeau has no reason to avoid the debates do to subject matter and certainly his skills in both languages is not a issue........I think it's this whole " commision" thing .

Enjoy your trip sounds wonderful. I have been trying to engourage my DH to do the same but he is stubbornly resisting. Not sure why ....need to work on that.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Me too chase (re: trying to get Husband to do this trip).

Every Wednesday I am at the farmers market at the Vancouver Main Street ViaRail station and every week I think to myself “I could just hop on a train...”

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HamiltonGardener

Chase,

Luckily, hubby loves trains and was completely on board (pardon the pun!) Train trips are relaxing and we sleep so well on a train.

One thing I am reading, in case you manage to convince him, is that you have to be prepared for sometimes major delays. CN owns the tracks and freight trains take precedence over passenger trains. Any delays and the passenger train is the one waiting.

Not to mention the chance of snowstorms, grass fires, forest fires, accidents, etc further up the tracks can all leave you sitting and waiting behind schedule.

But that would be a bonus for us. More time on the train!

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HamiltonGardener

Miss Lindsay, Chase...


If your hubbys are both being sticks in the mud, go without them. ;-)

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roxsol

My husband, as part of his retirement package, after 37 years with CNR has a life pass for travel on VIA Rail. Diesel fuel flows through his veins.

And yes, HG, be prepared for delays.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

PS HamiltonGardener if you are arriving or departing from Vancouver station on a Wednesday from now until Oct 21 stop by the market and say hi to me!!

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Cookie8

A candidate for my riding showed up at my doorstep today and I am terribly disappointed. I had two major questions and they were answered with "that's the way it is" pretty much. It was pretty discouraging.

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Prim Rose

The conservative sounds like a choice of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


Anti-choice? Climate change denier?


Being on HT, you know how bad it can get with a "populist" as president. Granted, Canadians wouldn't vote for a trump, but still.


If Trudeau's issues are contained with this one corporation and is otherwise doing a good job - per chase's SIL - taking a chance on the right wing would be sad imo.


Train trips! I love a cross country train trip! In the states, there's one that leaves out of Denver and travels thru the mountains and ends up in The City. So much fun and so relaxing.

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chase_gw

HG , my FIL worked for CN and every summer he would use his pass to send my husband and his sister out West . He did that for 6 summers, says he's seen enough of trains. Obviously it would be totally different now but.......he prefers to drive. We have made the trip twice by car.

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HamiltonGardener

Miss Lindsey,

It’s Pacific Central Station and we will be there on the weekend.

But if you do any weekend markets, I’m sure we could find our way there and say hi, if you wanted!

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HamiltonGardener

Roxsol, Chase,

my aunt also has worked for CN for years. She is eligible for retirement but has continued working. She gets bored, I guess.

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roxsol

HG, my husband retired 10 years ago with a full pension from CN.

He had farmer friends who bought some old CN track and they started their own railway, the Battle River Railroad. (BRR, especially in winter lol). Anyhow, CN has started abandoning a lot of track and farmers are expected to truck their grain further distances to one central elevator. These farmers, felt time was money, and said to heck with CN, they’ll start their own railroad. The problem was, none of them knew how to railroad nor had the Canadian Transport requirements. They snatched up a bunch of retiring CN guys. Everybody was happy, farmers weren’t losing time and grown men could still play train.

Anyhow, to make a long story even longer,

my husband went to work for them and finally packed it in last year.

And now the farmers, are operating the railroad all on their own, acquiring their own operating tickets. It is one of the most successful short line railroads in Western Canada. It was a big investment in track and equipment but has been a huge moneymaker for them.

eta And as a side note, they are all huge backers of the Conservative Party...I added that to keep on topic.

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HamiltonGardener

That's awesome. I know a lot of grain elevators were being demolished so I wondered how that was going to work.

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HamiltonGardener

Prim Rose,

Just to be clear, the Conservative Party is not a populist party. They would be part of the establishment as much as the Liberal Party.

And they are not climate change deniers either. They are touting their plan to hit the Paris Agreement targets is better than the Liberals and they have a green energy plan.

Andrew Scheer IS anti-choice, but like his predecessor, has said changes to Canada's current laws will not be on the table. Politicians know that in Canada, certain issues like abortion and health care are political suicide.

And Trudeau has more then just the SNC Lavalin issue that Canadians are not happy with.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

HG, I am not personally at the Vancouver markets on the weekends but you could find our farm at Trout Lake, West End, Kitsilano, or Ambleside markets. growlocal(dot)org for times and locations. They end around the second-third weekend of the month so I don’t know how that would work with timing.

(if you want more info you can message me, I’ll stop talking about myself now lol)

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Ann

Roxsol, cool story about the railroad and the farmers!

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tryingtounderstand

Since many Canadians are interested in USA policies and the current President, does anyone think comments by Trump could, inadvertently influence our elections? For instance,if Trump somehow directed a barb or poked a jab at Trudeau, would this compel Canadians to rally around him? What if Trump made positive statements about Scheer, would this propel Canadians to support Scheer?

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

“For instance,if Trump somehow directed a barb or poked a jab at Trudeau...”

This has happened. And it makes no difference.

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roxsol

I don’t think any comments by Trump would affect any Canadian politician, nor how their supporters saw them.

However, I think any Canadian politician showing great support for Trump would be a different matter all together.

Also, supporting Trump and supporting the USA are very different things.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhjd7DzRnvM

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Ann

"I doubt any true liberals are going to vote for Scheer with or without trump's approval."

Lol - "true liberals" and then I wondered if a vote for one's conservative MP option would put one in the "deplorable" category. Be careful Canadian voters who choose to place a vote that could potentially put Scheer in as PM - it can get ugly when you aren't what is considered a "true liberal":) Unless you live in Alberta where I think you'll have tons of fellow citizens who also aren't "true liberal"s.

There was a time, not long ago on HT, where the frustration with Trudeau was so great and many Canadian posters sounded VERY reluctant to vote for him via their MP option, because of course, his ethics had been shown to be not at all as expected. How times of changed:) Now, if you dare to vote for the party of his closest competitor, you are not a "true liberal". Shame, shame, shame!

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HamiltonGardener

Ann,

Circumstances haven't changed and most liberals are sill not happy with Trudeau.

Camille's comment surprises me. Not often you see a Canadian who spouts "true liberal" or "true conservative". In reality, most Canadians can go back or forth between parties from election to election, even from provincial to federal.

And one can vote for conservative and not be "deplorable". There is not that much difference between the parties in Canada.

However, I do notice this last comment of yours does look to an extreme... quite a jump from Camille's off-hand comment to the idea that Canadian voters have suddenly gone from being unhappy with Justin to afraid of being "deplorable"... seems almost to "stir the pot"... ;-) Look out Albertans!! (cause that's where the conservative voters are...no possible NDP voters there)

No worries. I'm sure nobody here is going after Conservative voters with pitchforks and torches on hand...

;-)

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Ann

HG, yes, Camille's comment surprised me, as well, for all the reasons you stated in your second and third paragraphs. Those same things have been described by several other Canadian posters as well.

Also, yes, how I reacted to Camille's "take" on it was both extreme and loaded with sarcasm. As an American conservative, I do very much experience quite angry liberal "pitchforks and torches" in my daily life and we certainly all see it on HT in every thread. I'm sure you've noticed the loathing of our President and the loathing directed at anyone who voted for him - the regular "racist" labels and such. You have noticed, right? Another narrative that is used by some liberals here on HT (and by some Canadian posters, in fact) is that Trump has no values and ethics and thus anyone who voted for him also has no values and ethics as, of course, WE OWN HIM. To see Trudeau support growing after hearing so much of this narrative is somewhat comical to me - they're unhappy with him (as you mentioned) but they'll still place a vote because they consider it their best option - and I get that!!!! So, my comment included a great deal of sarcasm for a very specific reason. I recognize Canadians don't treat one another like that (and for that reason, I'll guess Camille is not Canadian) but I'm guessing you've noticed, as have I, that Americans do treat other Americans like that and I'll go further in saying, I think some Canadians also treat Americans like that, while they treat their fellow Canadians with respect. Have you noticed that?

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roxsol

No matter where you come from, you are responsible for yourself and speak for yourself.

Not everybody is going to like you. C’est la vie.

Personal responsibility.

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chase_gw

"There was a time, not long ago on HT, where the frustration with Trudeau
was so great and many Canadian posters sounded VERY reluctant to vote
for him via their MP option, because of course, his ethics had been
shown to be not at all as expected. How times of changed"

Times have not changed.....I think the same posters who said they were reluctant to vote for Trudeau still feel the exact same way.

The only way Trump could influence our elections is by endorsing Scheer......that might just tip the scales against him!

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Ann

I expect Trump sure might have something to say if he cares much or wants to say anything, just as Obama did about Macron, Brexit, etc. and just as Trump has about previous elections around the world and about Johnson/Brexit. I'll also predict the media will make a really big deal of whatever Trump does or even doesn't say:)

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tryingtounderstand

Times have not changed with respect to Trudeau. At the beginning of the year, his favourability/approval rating was in the mid 40s, after the Lavalin affair it plummeted to low 30’s.

Today, the race is neck and neck, mere percentage points between Scheer and Trudeau. (33.8 vs 33.4).

I for one, have lost faith in him, however, I have little faith in Scheer as leader. Though we do like our conservative MP, who has done a lot for our community. We feel he is approacheable and represents us well in Ottawa.

As has been said numerous times on this forum, most Canadians vote for the individual best deemed to lead the country. Most Canadians are not “married” to a party. Further, I believe we respect each other’s choices.

Very rarely have I seen or heard families, friends or neighbours being torn apart due to political beliefs.

Furthermore, I am very open to listening to others opinions, admitting that there could be validity in oppositie parties policies. There is no one side that has all the answers, conversely not one side is purely bad. I also feel that the majority of Canadians share this perspective. But Mayb I’m naive.

it appears that in the USA, you are totally supportive of one party or another. I have never heard a Republican disagreeing with specific Trump policies for example. It’s all in or all out.

Can one be a party member, yet admit they don’t like X,Y or Z.?

I think Canadians are better at doing this, hence we have a lot less Thanksgiving political arguments. Hence, there Is less party and leader loyalty.

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HamiltonGardener

I'm sure you've noticed the loathing of our President and the loathing directed at anyone who voted for him - the regular "racist" labels and such. You have noticed, right? Another narrative that is used by some liberals here on HT (and by some Canadian posters, in fact) is that Trump has no values and ethics and thus anyone who voted for him also has no values and ethics as, of course, WE OWN HIM.

Well, I think your President is worth loathing. I also think he has no values or ethics.

But I do not pass those same traits to those who voted for him.

I know a few who voted for Trump in a couple of northern states and can say with certainty that they were Democrat voters who felt that their issues were not being addressed by Democrats. They need jobs and security, as well as caring about health care and environment. But when your job goes out the window, you want someone to listen to you. And Donald Trump was listening. He was speaking to them. The Democrats ignored them. When they weren't ignoring them, they were busy painting them as climate deniers, greedy people, racists, etc. And so... they voted Trump. he promised them jobs.

The problem is, their lives didn't get better. They got worse. There are less good jobs than before. So they may again vote Democrat.

Of course, that depends on what the Dems are offering. Maybe they wont have faith in the new choice.

So maybe American voters aren't so different than Canadian voters after all.

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Ann

HG, there are less good jobs than before? I'm sure wondering where you are obtaining that info?

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Ann

While Canadians have pointed out small differences between candidates in Canada (although Scheer seems to be drawing some pretty strong reactions from some), we have extreme differences between GOP and Dem candidates in the U.S. Depending on one's beliefs, it would be nearly impossible to see enough policy plans you like in a candidate from one of the 2 parties. I'd guess liberals in Canada might feel that way about Bernier, right? But, not unlike here, it seems your PM will be between 2 (at least this year). Is there any logical expectation your PM will be someone other than Trudeau or Scheer following this election. I'm guessing that answer is no.

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Ann

"Why is it that the choices are often the best of two evils? It would be a cold day in hell before I could bring myself to vote for Andrew Scheer and the conservative party."

"I doubt any true liberals are going to vote for Scheer with or without trump's approval."

Oh, it sounds like my earlier guess that Camille talking about the potential votes of those who aren't "true liberals" might mean she's unlikely to be Canadian is wrong. I guess Canadians are getting bolder about how they discuss/label other Canadian voters.


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tryingtounderstand

We have a total of 4 potential leaders, Trudeau, Scheer, Singh (NDP 13% and May (Green 10%). The latter 2 very much left leaning.

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HamiltonGardener

it would be nearly impossible to see enough policy plans you like in a candidate from one of the 2 parties. I'd guess liberals in Canada might feel that way about Bernier, right?

Actually, no. Keep in mind that being a "liberal" in Canada does not tie your personal preferences to whatever the party policies are. One liberal may agree with Bernier on his immigration policies and disagree with his economic policies. A different liberal may disagree on immigration and agree on economic. The parties are a spectrum, or better a bunch of parallel spectrums. You find what issue is most important to you and the party that aligns with your beliefs most closely, even if you agree with a different party on some issues.

But, not unlike here, it seems your PM will be between 2 (at least this year). Is there any logical expectation your PM will be someone other than Trudeau or Scheer following this election. I'm guessing that answer is no.

History says you are right, but you have to understand what a minority government means. One (or all) the other parties hold the balance of power. It's totally unlike there. Winner doesn't take all.

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Ann

TTU, I must be misunderstanding how the election works. Do you really think Singh or May have any "reasonable" chance of becoming PM? Aren't they huge longshots?

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Ann

HG, I read about that over the weekend. It sounds like a PM with a minority government is a different situation than one whose party has reached 170 or more seats for a majority government. And, yes, that is different than here.

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chase_gw

"While Canadians have pointed out small differences between candidates in Canada"

I don't think that is true at all, I don't think anyone has ever said that...in fact I'm sure they haven't. There are huge differences between the leaders of the parties, who you term candidates. Trudeau and Scheer are polar opposites....as was Trudeau and Harper.

What we have said is that there isn't that much difference between the parties.

edited

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tryingtounderstand

Here is some interesting reading re differences between USA and Canada re govt processes, how bills/laws are passed. In Canada, all bills are voted by both parties. If majority approves bill will pass, if not...well its

https://lop.parl.ca/about/parliament/senatoreugeneforsey/book/chapter_4-e.html

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

It’s impossible to discuss the implications of an election with someone who doesn’t understand the parliamentary system.

A minority government has to compromise and make concessions to whatever party/ies hold the balance of power, ie whatever party/ies they can team up to get their preferred laws passed.

So if the Trudeau Liberals win a minority government, he is best advised to “form a coalition” (you can google that if you don’t understand the term) with another party. They commit to voting together. Otherwise, his budget fails to be passed through lack of a 51% vote, his government falls, and we have another election.

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Ann

"It’s impossible to discuss the implications of an election with someone who doesn’t understand the parliamentary system."

:)

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ubro(2a)

" What if Trump made positive statements about Scheer, would this propel Canadians to support Scheer? "

I would hope it would be the kiss of death.

No need to hope, it would be the kiss of death. I live in a very conservative province and I have not met one person who isn't laughing at Trump and at the same time insulting him. They listen to his speeches, watch his behaviour, and read his tweets with a sense of WTF?????? Then the very next comment is "if that was a politician I supported he would be out on his azzzz".

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ubro(2a)

There was a time, not long ago on HT, where the frustration with Trudeau was so great and many Canadian posters sounded VERY reluctant to vote for him via their MP option, because of course, his ethics had been shown to be not at all as expected. How times of changed:) Now, if you dare to vote for the party of his closest competitor, you are not a "true liberal". Shame, shame, shame!

Nope, no shame calling, I have never even heard this sentiment spoken until her on HT. You miss the fact that that there are two other parties that may be palatable to some. It is not a two person choice necessarily, and if a person doesn't like Trudeau they can vote for someone either than Scheer and split the vote so although Scheer get's in, he has no power at all unless he works with one of the other parties.

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ubro(2a)

Andrew Scheer IS anti-choice, but like his predecessor, has said changes to Canada's current laws will not be on the table.

They don't need to be, he can do as Stephen Harper did and just quietly start to defund.

HG we travelled to the east coast on the train, it was wonderful. Funny, we did a return trip as well and both ways we were only 15 min late at the final destination. Be prepared for some awesome food, I could not believe how wonderful it was. Eating up on the observation car at night when the stars are out is a great experience, enjoy the trip.

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HamiltonGardener

ubro,

I read that the food is excellent, I'm so looking forward to it.

Thanks for the tip about the observation car at night. Without the light pollution, the stars will be wonderful. I just mentioned it to hubby and he loves the idea!

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Prim Rose

Also highly recommend the observation car at night. Not sure about Amtrak food, though. Good to know that Canada Rail's food is excellent.

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chase_gw

"You miss the fact that that there are two other parties that may be palatable to some. It is not a two person choice necessarily, and if a person doesn't like
Trudeau they can vote for someone either than Scheer and split the vote
so although Scheer get's in, he has no power at all unless he works
with one of the other parties."

That's my intent....to vote Green in the hopes of setting up a minority government for either Trudeau or Scheer. In my view, the Liberals have a much better chance of finding alliances should they form a minority. Both the Green party and the NDP are left leaning.

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ubro(2a)

I agree chase I think Scheer is too far removed from either the NDP or the Greens to work with either so his option would be Bernier, if the People's Party ( am I the only one who thinks the words People's Party brings up visions of North Korea?) wins a few seats.

Thanks for the tip about the observation car at night. Without the light pollution, the stars will be wonderful. I just mentioned it to hubby and he loves the idea!

A glass of wine is a good addition if you are so inclined. If you have the opportunity to choose the front seats then you can look forward at the vistas and along the top of the train with no visual interruption, and it is beautiful to watch it weave like a snake thru the wilderness.

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HamiltonGardener

[

](https://www.gardenweb.com/user/ubro)

ubro(2a)

A glass of wine is a good addition if you are so inclined. If you have the opportunity to choose the front seats then you can look forward at the vistas and along the top of the train with no visual interruption, and it is beautiful to watch it weave like a snake thru the wilderness.

You know, I was a little hesitant to book this trip in October because we could take advantage of the daylight hours in spring instead. But, we also wanted to try and time it for fall colours in the east and snow in the mountains. The trade off was less daylight for viewing.

But now, we are really looking forward to taking advantage of the nighttime stargazing from the panorama car.

Thanks so much for pointing that out.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Is it lame that I’m very excited on your behalf HamiltonGardener? lol

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HamiltonGardener

Nah... It's probably because you like trains as much as the rest of us!

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elvis

miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

It’s impossible to discuss the implications of an election with someone who doesn’t understand the parliamentary system.

You're not talking to Ann, right? She's gone to a lot of trouble, asked the HT Canadians a lot of detailed questions, taken an interest in their elections for some time now. Who did you have in mind when you asked that question, lindsey? Anyone in particular, or just...what?

Or maybe I misunderstand you. Are you repeating something that's been said to you, as an American living in Canada? If so, I hope people were kind enough to explain the system to you in a way that didn't make you feel like you were being condescended to.

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chase_gw

"You're not talking to Ann, right? She's gone to a lot of trouble, asked the HT Canadians a lot of detailed questions, taken an interest in their elections for some time now."

Asking the questions is not be same as listening to the answers ....

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Ziemia(6a)

"You're not talking to Ann, right? She's gone to a lot of trouble, asked the HT Canadians a lot of detailed questions, taken an interest in their elections for some time now."

Many Americans read these comments (some write comments) and I have no doubt that some Canadians "here" have also dealt with questions face-to-face from Americans about Canadian and likely also UK government proceedings.

And it would be reassuring to here that the system of relationships and poower is a bit more complicated than is typical of the US system. Our founders seemed to deliberately leave the parliamentary system behind.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)


elvis

15 minutes ago

miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

It’s impossible to discuss the implications of an election with someone who doesn’t understand the parliamentary system.

You're not talking to Ann, right? She's gone to a lot of trouble, asked the HT Canadians a lot of detailed questions, taken an interest in their elections for some time now. Who did you have in mind when you asked that question, lindsey? Anyone in particular, or just...what?

———

Well, my statement isn’t a question at all. It is a declarative assertion made as a preamble to the next couple of paragraphs, in which I quickly summarize the parliamentary democratic system.

Because it is impossible to discuss Canadian elections without understanding that system which is very different from the American one. And I wouldn’t want to presume that anyone has the same information that I do.

I tried to be completely neutral in my phrasing and my explanation. I believe that it’s best to be neutral when giving factual information.

I thought from Ann’s follow up post with the smile emoji that she appreciated my explanation.

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Ann

"Asking the questions is not be same as listening to the answers …."

One on HT has to be careful of "random stuff" or "wishful thinking". As is so often said on HT, google is your friend:)

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Ann

That's how you interpreted the :)? Okay:)

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

How else should one interpret it if someone smiles at her?

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Ann

Well, one might smile at a comment because it's somewhat humorous in one way or another.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Asked:

Ann

Yesterday at 12:59PM

TTU, I must be misunderstanding how the election works. Do you really think Singh or May have any "reasonable" chance of becoming PM? Aren't they huge longshots?

and answered:

miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Yesterday at 2:35PM

It’s impossible to discuss the implications of an election with someone who doesn’t understand the parliamentary system.

A minority government has to compromise and make concessions to whatever party/ies hold the balance of power, ie whatever party/ies they can team up to get their preferred laws passed.

So if the Trudeau Liberals win a minority government, he is best advised to “form a coalition” (you can google that if you don’t understand the term) with another party. They commit to voting together. Otherwise, his budget fails to be passed through lack of a 51% vote, his government falls, and we have another election.

(emphasis added)

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Ann

just now

Well, one might smile at a comment because it's somewhat humorous in one way or another.

——-

ah. My mistake.

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roxsol


The results aren’t all in yet, but it looks like the PC’s have won a majority government in Manitoba. ( No surprise, I guess.)

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Ann

Thanks for the info roxsol. It's off topic for this thread, but today, we in the U.S. were watching the results of 2 NC House races (special elections). The Republicans took both, one by a bunch and one by a little. The latter was one where the GOP had a not terribly attractive candidate and the Dems had a good candidate. The polls were super close.

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elvis

Asking the questions is not be same as listening to the answers ....

In Ann's case, it obviously is the same, as evidenced by her many thoughtful posts on the topic.

You simply can't abide her ability to call you out. Shrug.

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Ann

Chase, I think you might not be considering the difference in our political views. For example, if you ask a question about U.S. politics, elections, and opinions and I answer and an HT liberal answers and both answers are sincere and thorough answers - you will nearly always accept and agree with the liberal answer and disagree with my answer or take on it. I think the situation might work somewhat the same in reverse. I think some Canadians on HT provide what sounds to me like a more "balanced" view than I hear from your answers and, thus, they draw my attention and interest more than your answers or opinions.

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Prim Rose

I think miss lindsey is being far far more patient and willing to give her time to inform some poster(s). I would think a polite response would be to thank her, rather than play PA games.

It's not like the Canadian system of government is well known and understood by poster(s) who don't live there.

And as Canada has been disavowed by poster(s) - all the more reason to be grateful that anyone is willing to discuss it's politics.

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roxsol

miss lindsey is one of the kindest posters on HT.

Yes, a polite response would have been to thank her but unfortunately, some lack in basic good manners. :(

When one individual starts so many threads about Canada, the least we can do is play along. Just look at the wonderful comments about train travel in the beautiful country of Canada, we’ve all managed to slip in!

That brings me to the VIA run between Jasper and Prince Rupert. If you go around the first week of May, you will see a lot of bears. The leaves are not yet on the low lying bushes, so the sows and their cubs are quite visible. One year, I counted 33 bears, one way. The trip is particularly interesting after you pass Prince George. There is one place, I believe it is called Penny, deep in the forest, that is actually a post office, and their mail is delivered by train. Every time I have been through there, there is six or seven individuals on quads, with their dogs waiting at the side of the track, for the mail to be dropped off. The train staff keep a supply of treats for the dogs. It’s less than a five minute stop but great fun. The train travels along the Skeena River and the scenery is absolutely breathtaking. I’ve never tired of it.

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chase_gw

When I made my comment I was referring to process and the nuances of our system not policy. I fully understand and welcome the differing opinions on policy and don't expect them to be accepted by everyone.

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tryingtounderstand

Enjoy your journey and relax

I’ve travelled across Canada many many times by planes, trains and automobiles. Once by train in the middle of frigid with winter with baby daughter in tow. Didn’t realize that, st 9 months, she wouldn’t be sitting still. Couldn’t walk yet either, so crawl she did, up and down the aisles, dirty as can be. Of course, kindly strangers reminded me this was not sanitary. But She survived.

Train stopped many times to let pass freight trains and even froze on the tracks. A very long night waiting it was. But the scenery is beautiful, best is the Great Lakes, the flat prairies are ok and then after nothing but flat land out pop the majestic Rockies and then on to scenic BC, which stands for Bring Cash..Lol. Enjoy Canada, everyone should have the opportunity to see it coast to coast.

Both the USA and Canada are vast lands with wondrous and diverse geography and friendly folk to boot. (:

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roxsol

Well, the Canada election campaign officially started today.

This is how the CBC is reporting it.

“Forty days — and every one of them will count.

It's rare for a Canadian federal election campaign to begin with the outcome so much in doubt. To call the 43rd federal election close would be an understatement. On Day One, it's literally as close as it can get.

That's how things look on the surface, at least. But a deeper look suggests that the Liberals hold some advantages over the Conservatives in how their vote breaks down across the country — slim, potentially vulnerable advantages, but advantages nonetheless.”

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elvis

And as Canada has been disavowed by poster(s) - all the more reason to be grateful that anyone is willing to discuss it's politics.

"Disavowed"?

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tryingtounderstand

@Roxsol, ya beat me to it, was just gonna post the exact same...he he. Can’t imagine Scheer as PM, just can’t, and I’m a conservative. Trudeau now has experience so that’s a good thing, NDP no way, not after living in BC with the current leadership. If only Elizabeth would cross aisles...but a vote for her may be ok..

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tryingtounderstand

Party standings as of dissolution

Heading into the campaign the Liberals hold 177 seats, the Conservatives have 95, the NDP hold 39, the Bloc Quebecois have 10, and the Green Party has two seats. The 42nd Parliament also had eight independents as of dissolution. A party needs to win 170 seats for a majority government.

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roxsol

ttu, lol about “bring cash.”

I’m heading to Radium Hot Springs next week, to soak my old bones. My husband calls British Columbians “rock dodgers.”

It’s a beautiful province.

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tryingtounderstand

@ Roxsol, Rock Dodgers, haven’t heard of that one lol. Enjoy Radium, I love hot springs, especially those in Banff. If your ever in Banff and Canmore areas, you should try a heli tour. Breathtaking is an understatement!

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roxsol

ttu, I spent much of my childhood in Banff and Canmore :)

.....born and raised in Calgary...yee haw.

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tryingtounderstand

@ Born and raised, hmm. I always wondered if There were any born Calgarians, when I lived there way way back in the 80s, stayed 20 years. Seemed like only us transplants around. Yikes, I’ll admit it, I was one of those from Ont. Remember, Klein wanting to send them back east? I remember the oil bust, early 80s, ludicrous interest rates 18%. population less than 500k. Long cold winters, snow in July, free pancake breakfasts during stampede. But, whatever happened the Heritage Fund Being saved for a rainy day. They were fun days, still have friends there and SIL in Edmonton. So we get back there quite a bit.

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roxsol

Yep, grew up in Elbow Park, in the 60’s and 70’s.

( I sure miss Ralph, lol)

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Had the pleasure of listening to Elizabeth May’s press conference a little bit ago. Missed the others, sadly.

It might be possible to listen to an archived version on CBC.ca if anyone outside Canada wants to hear the different positions.

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tryingtounderstand

@roxsol, rented a small house on 3rd ave N, on top of the hill overlooking the city. LL wanted to sell it for 60k groan. Way too expensive...c’est la vie! Ralph was a good guy, a popular guy too.

Thanks Lindsey for the tip.

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chase_gw

The more I see of her the more I like her. Can't say that was always true. She really turned me off a few years back when she took to the podium apparently drunk. However, I have seen no behaviours of hers that I think are out of line so don't know what that may have been all about.

Anyhow , she is an interesting lady . I think she may pick up several seats from the NDP. Would be great to see the Green Party as the viable third party.

Will be certain to listen closely to her at the debates......off to find the press conference.


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ubro(2a)

The NDP have major problems and the Greens will gain ground at their expense.

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chase_gw

Jack Layton must be turning over in his grave.

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Off topic, HG the Main Street station *is* the Pacific Central Station lol. Silly me!

wednesdays 2-6 until Oct 21 :)

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tryingtounderstand

@miss Lindsey, do your products ever get to the Okanagan area. (:

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miss lindsey (stillmissesSophie,chase,maifleur,others(8a)

Occasionally tryingtounderstand! Usually by special order with delivery through an in-law :)

My messaging is open if you want more details!

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