what is a better way to word this...doctors note

always1stepbehind

Son works at Target. Picked up cart attendent position during the holidays and has stayed on. He has ezcema and now that it's warmer, his ezcema has flared up and sweating really aggrevates. I suggested he check with HR to see if inside position. HR ok'd it, then said he'd need a doctors note. So we did go to the dermatologist and he did get a note but the wording prompted HR to schedule son for late after noon, evening shifts when it's not so hot. But he still sweats and it still irritates the ezcema. So HR wants ANOTHER note from Dr. in order to actually switch him to an inside position. I'm trying to think of better wording the Dr. could use. I thought I had take a picture of the note, but I can't find it in my phone. I do know the working didn't mention anything about sweat irritating the ezcema, it was more worded toward temperature.

Basically he needs to be where the temp is controlled to avoid excessive sweating. He worked retail previously and was indoors so it wasn't an issure.

Any suggestions for better wording?

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maifleur01

It really does not matter what the doctor writes other than it would not be advisable for your son to work outside. It is better to never mention any actual health condition in something for HR.

I would caution your son on engaging in other physical activities such as sports where he would also sweat as HR could consider that as invalidating the doctor's note.

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Elmer J Fudd

Just an observation -

Employers don't ask for a note from a doctor in a normal case of considering a different position for an existing employee, whether the initiator is the employee or employer.

This smells to me like a defensive/protective move by HR. Unreasonable treatment or the failure to accommodate an employee's requirements that can be argued as being due to a medical condition of whatever kind is prohibited employment discrimination that can be grounds for a complaint or lawsuit. The note they've asked for is to confirm the validity and basis of his request for this reason. I hope your son's needs can be handled but don't be surprised to learn down the road that they're treating him as some kind of "special situation" out of caution, not because of anyone's personal concern or because of his job performance.

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Olychick

"Johnny is being treated by me for a medical condition which is aggravated by working outdoors. It is my medical opinion that he should be accommodated to work in a climate controlled building and avoid working outdoors."

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watchmelol

I think Elmer makes a good point. Your son took an entry level position that requires being outdoors. His best bet would be to be more proactive himself and ask if there are openings for a job he is qualified for or could apply for indoors, not rely on a doctor's note.


If he has the skills needed to fulfill an open position they should move him. However they are not obligated to "make work" for him. Even indoors many retail jobs are hot. Shelf stocking, working in the warehouse area, unloading the trucks in bays are hard laborious,often sweaty work. If he wants to work a register or in customer service he needs meet the qualifications to do the job.

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always1stepbehind

Watch: He does has the qualifications to work at the register etc. He's filled in inside before so it's not that he's not qualified. But I understand what you are saying that they are not obligated to make work for him. It's Target though, I'm sure they are hiring people all the time. He probably could get transferred to another store, I would imagine.

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Elmer J Fudd

" He probably could get transferred to another store, I would imagine. "


If my speculation as described above is on point, it's very unlikely he'd be transferred to another store. For the same reasons previously mentioned.

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always1stepbehind

well to be 100% I really didn't know exactly what you were trying to say in your first post. I understood how Watch referred to your post in her post so it gave me a little clarity... sorry, call me simple, but even your second post, I don't know exactly what you are tyring to say.

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Elmer J Fudd

Sorry. I'll try another way - I was trying to be helpful.

There are too many people around who are on the lookout for situations, no matter how specious, to file contingent fee lawsuits and hope to earn a payoff from a nuisance settlement.

Federal and state laws treat an employer's failure or refusal to recognize and reasonably accommodate the needs of an employee with a medical or other disability as unlawful employment discrimination. For which they can be sued. Large employers and astute smaller ones have their HR people trained to look for advance signs of several kinds of potentially troublesome situations so that they can be avoided.

If my speculation is correct, HR has asked for a doctor's note to establish that your son has a medical need to avoid the outdoors in his work and that it's not a BS excuse. With that in hand, they'll have evidence that he has a medical requirement that needs to be accommodated to avoid a legal problem and they will do so. And they will likely keep an eye on him to be sure that there are no other aspects of his work environment to take issue with. And they will prefer to keep him in the store he's located in so that management can be careful with him. And also so that a management-initiated transfer to another store not be alleged to be a retaliatory move to induce him to quit.

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Elmer J Fudd

addendum -

My advice to him is that in the future when applying for jobs, it would be better to assess in advance the suitability of conditions of a job he wants to apply for, considering his own needs and preferences. Why even bother seeking a position that will present an obvious problem for him that he should have known and thought about beforehand.

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arcy_gw

Not sure where you live but in MN there are "help wanted" signs on every store/restaurant/ business. Tell him to go to Walmart and apply for an INSIDE job. Is he 16? Shopping cart attendant isn't a job in and of itself around here...maybe they are finding loop holes for hiring younger people so they have more workers inside?? Anyway McDonalds and other fast food places hire ANYBODY.

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Elmer J Fudd

Another bit of unsolicited advice -

A young person doesn't want to accumulate a string of different employer situations lasting only short periods of time. It's a red flag suggesting job performance issues that can hinder job searches in the future.

I think this young man was fired from a job not too terribly long ago because of several instances of not showing up on time. He needs to have longer lasting period(s) of stable employment, the fewer the better, to make up for that.

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watchmelol

If this is the same young man mentioned above he is by now nearing 20. It is past time time for him to learn to deal with his own job issues, medical issues and other personal issues on his own. Mama bear stepping in with advice, posting for advice on his behalf etc. is holding him back not supporting him.


It's time to let go. It is way past time to let him make his own mistakes, learn from them and be held accountable.


I understand that it takes young people longer to fully launch these days in some areas of the country. My own son to his chagrin had to live with us for longer than he or us would have liked. But his job and related issues were his his to deal with , not ours, even at the age of 15/16. His medical issues became his at age 18 unless he specifically asked for our opinion or advice His decision to further or not further his education were his to make although he knew he had to be productive, save for his future and manage all his own expenses. We help our kids for the rest of our lives but we will not carry them on our backs.


I'm sorry but I can't imagine a parent getting into his job related /eczema issues at his age. DS was 19 when he was in a bad motorcycle crash. He was projected to not walk for a year. He dealt with his doctors, made informed decisions with his surgical team, fired his physical therapist and worked to find a new,better way (he walked on his own in six months) and managed to arrange to get back to work and be accommodated as soon as he could leave his bed, in a wheelchair and get there. Those are called life skills and the only way one gets them is to do them without interference from mom and dad.


He is not a child. Were the draft in effect he would soon learn that.



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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

It may be helpful to think of a parent's role as a consultant once a child reaches middle school. With a seventh grader, the parent may set some of the goals and the child must work out how to achieve them. The parent can offer advice and encouragement as solicited/needed. Once the child is a bit older, then the child has goals, and the parent can be there to listen and provide feedback and support.

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Elmer J Fudd

" It may be helpful to think of a parent's role as a consultant once a child reaches middle school. With a seventh grader, the parent may set some of the goals and the child must work out how to achieve them. "

I don't agree. A consultant is someone who's consulted when the principal thinks they need advice. A younger kid has neither the insights to recognize issues nor the tools to work them out on their own. This analogy is perhaps appropriate for adult kids but not younger ones.

To me, a parent of a kid up through high school and somewhat into the later years (whether that's college or vocational training or full-time employment) is more akin to a personal trainer. After first probing by discussing what's necessary, what do you want, how do you plan to get there, etc., the trainer then prescribes suggested conduct and approaches and monitors what's done. Kids need proactive guidance to avoid wrong directions and floundering.

In my experience, kids up through the teen years plus a bit don't always necessarily have forward looking goals and indeed may not know what goals even are or their importance.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Elmer, I think it depends on the children and the parents' goals. We discussed goal setting from a young age. We shared our goals for ourselves and narrated a bit of how we got from point a to b as a matter of course. So, as the children moved to into higher grades they had a pretty firm grasp of what we expected from them, grade wise, co-curricular wise and personally. They also had some of their own goals, like becoming moderators of some such game server, or getting some position at school. We were fortunate in that our children pretty much understood and shared the same goals for themselves that we had for them, exceptions tended to fall in the personal growth category, like my thinking the eldest was old enough to be less of a pain toward the youngest.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

PS this approach was even encouraged by our pediatrician who saw the children on their own from the age of 12 (maybe even 11, I don't recall exactly) and formatted the office visit similarly with the child being queried about concerns, not the parent. And while my children were fortunate to not have any health issues, aside from acute ones like a broken limb or stitches, my friends with the same doctor said she put the child in the lead position always, teaching the children to take responsibility for managing appointments and testing from middle school on.

PPS If there had been any daylight between our children's goals and ours, we would have imposed ours in a heartbeat.

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Kool Beans

If they don’t have an inside position for him at the store he’s at would it be possible for him to transfer to a store that does?

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Elmer J Fudd

zalco, there are always multiple ways to do things but what you're describing is a very different attitude (and so approach) from ours and what we did. Nothing more so than to say " our children pretty much understood and shared the same goals for themselves that we had for them ". We didn't have goals for our kids, we had questions and guidance for them and gave them our clear expectations. Choices weren't theirs alone to make. Having them conduct their own doctor appointments might have been fun to tell your friends about but again, you put them into situations without the tools and the understanding to deal with such situations as an adult would have had.


To me, letting kids "find their own way" and encouraging them to "find themselves" while not "taking care of business" along the way has too much in common with inattentive parenting.

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Elmer J Fudd

" would it be possible for him to transfer to a store that does? "

Above I explained why I think that's unlikely to happen. I could be wrong.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Elmer, I can't figure out the difference between your expectations and my goals. As for the doctor's appointments, that was the entire pediatric practice's m.o., not my choice. It worked out super well, but I assure you, not a source of discussion among friends outside of a bit of jitteriness when our children reached middle school and the change was implemented. My parenting style is far from laissez-faire. My goal has been to have children who lived up to their potential and were happy with themselves. So far, so good.

PS The pediatricians explained they thought meeting with the children one on one would foster a better doctor patient relationship, teach the children to take responsibility for their health and learn how to advocate for themselves. Our pediatrician always acted as a teacher for us, from day one. She would explain what her thinking was about something and why, and gave us plenty of time to chat, so it's not like it was throwing a child into an adult situation without any tools. The whole point was the doctor wanted to teach the child how to manage their health on their own before they were really on their own.

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Elmer J Fudd

Yeah, soundbytes make for difficult conversations.

Unless I misinterpreted what you said, for me the word "goals" means intended ultimate outcome(s). I used the word "expectations" to focus on what was done and how it was done along the way. Our kids set their own goals - our objective was for them to have goals. We tried not to interfere with the decisions about what they were or could be, unless asked or if they got misdirected. We helped by giving them them tools and suggestions for how to get there.

Everyone likes different things but we would never have found a pediatrician with an approach like that to be to our liking. I'm not sure that pediatricians have all that much training in child rearing or psychology anyway, other than what to do and not do in clinical situations. The experts in this field are psychologists, behaviorists, counselors, not physicians. If it worked for you, great!

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Apologies for going so far OT. Elmer, I think your use of the word expectations was better than my goals. I meant what you said. WRT he pediatrician, I didn't ask about her plan for middle school when I had newborns and since she was an awesome pediatrician we stayed with her and have no regrets. Maybe if our children had medical issues we would have considered switching practices, depending on how things went, fortunately we had easy yearly appointments.


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Elmer J Fudd

It's a hard way to communicate. Thanks for staying with it so that we each could clarify our thoughts.

I've no doubt we share many attitudes, preferences, experiences and the ideas that come from them from our own respective parenting adventures. Effective parenting is not a non-contact sport (forgive the odd metaphor). There are lots of thrills and spills, impacts and bruises, highs and lows, etc., along the way. Our kids are all adults now but it's been a fun and rewarding experience. We rejoiced when the time came for the youngest to leave for college because while we still had parenting responsibilities to attend to from time to time (no moving and not leaving a forwarding address), the amount of free time we suddenly had was fantastic! All were successfully launched and none ever moved back home.

If you have some now away in college, you're on your way to having the same experience too.

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