What about after 2024???????

maifleur01

Have any of the Republicans on here thought of candidates that they would like to succeed Trump? Normally by now I have seen mention of rumors of the possibility of running for President by now but so far not a whisper so I thought I would ask. I am aware it seems like a long way away but by now committees to look at the possibility have already been formed.

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queenmargo

I think we should give Trump a third term to make up for the first one that the left tried to destroy;)

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cait1

I second our Queen's proposal! ROFL

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maifleur01

I think that is what is planned but if there was an alternative to that who would you like.

I think he has done a good job of destroying this term and it is not yet half over.

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Joe Schmoe

Trump again.

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maifleur01

Since currently that is illegal how do you suggest he do it?

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Joaniepoanie


maifleur01

Since currently that is illegal how do you suggest he do it?

*******

You mean the sycophant Repubs aren’t already changing the law for their dictator?

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queenmargo

We could just check the question at the bottom of the ballot when we vote;)

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maifleur01

queenmargo which question is that?

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queenmargo

Trump for a third term?

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maifleur01

You realize that Trump being on the ballot in 2024 even as a write in vote is not legal?

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queenmargo

LOL- when did a liberal ever care about anything illegal?

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maifleur01

This one apparently cares more than some that post on HT. Each one has to live by any ethics that they might have.

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maifleur01

To get back to my original question assuming Trump does not overthrow the government and stay in office who would you like to see run.

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mudhouse

Maifleur, I think it's an interesting question. Maybe others have been thinking about it, but with the pace of the current news cycle, I admit I really haven't. Nikki Haley will probably come up in the discussion.

Speaking honestly, I think anyone who follows Trump (of either party) will be dull as dishwater. I know of course that statement won't sit well with many here, but I'm already bracing myself a little for boredom in 2024. (Unless Tucker Carlson runs, that probably wouldn't be boring.) I don't think Ted Cruz has the personal appeal needed. I like Pence as VP but I don't know if he could win a presidential election.

Maybe another business person would be a better fit, somebody who's not already on the political horizon. I'd be open to that.

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Ann

I like Haley. I think Graham makes some sense. I don't think Pence.

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Ann

I'm kind of impressed with Tom Cotton in interviews but I don't know much about him.

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Ann

I also kind of like Lankford.

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mudhouse

Ann, I really like Graham too, at times, but he seems sort of...changeable, and sometimes I'm not sure why.

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Prim Rose

If you think the president should liven up your life (bored, much?) and should be your personal entertainment - then run Hannity. He's trump's boy. Or Steve Miller - if you like dark humour.


I don't think 2024 is the goper's problem, though.

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mudhouse

Oh heck no, I haven't been bored since Trump came down the escalator, that's for sure. And I don't vote for entertainment, I vote for the person who can bring about the changes I'd like to see in the country, as most of us do. Trump keeps six or seven plates spinning at a time, though, and I think most people (on either side) would agree that the pace of events during his presidency has been somewhat remarkable.

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Tilly Teabag

I hope it is not a climate change denier.

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cait1

I could never support Haley because she's a neocon loved by never-Trumpers.

Jim Jordon could be fun.

Maybe another outsider but no one is on my radar at this moment.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

"I think we should give Trump a third term to make up for the first one that the left tried to destroy;)"

Using that logic, I think we should give Obama a third and fourth term to make up for the Repubs. "just say NO" campaign that did its best to nullify his first two terms.

Kate

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Ivanka of course......Bwhahahahahaha

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graywings123(7)

No one is mentioning Pence? Wouldn't he be the obvious choice?

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Pence would be in a mental institution by 2024.

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Ann

Nah, Pence doesn't have any "it" factor IMO. Definitely not the obvious choice.

I agree that Jim Jordan could be fun.

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elvis

graywings123(7)

No one is mentioning Pence? Wouldn't he be the obvious choice?

10 hours ago, bolding mine:

mudhouse

Maifleur, I think it's an interesting question. Maybe others have been thinking about it, but with the pace of the current news cycle, I admit I really haven't. Nikki Haley will probably come up in the discussion.

Speaking honestly, I think anyone who follows Trump (of either party) will be dull as dishwater. I know of course that statement won't sit well with many here, but I'm already bracing myself a little for boredom in 2024. (Unless Tucker Carlson runs, that probably wouldn't be boring.) I don't think Ted Cruz has the personal appeal needed. I like Pence as VP but I don't know if he could win a presidential election.

Maybe another business person would be a better fit, somebody who's not already on the political horizon. I'd be open to that.

ETA:

Ann

I like Haley. I think Graham makes some sense. I don't think Pence.

Also 10 hours ago

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rob333 (zone 7a)

elvis,

The question was, "Is no one backing Pence?" Not did anyone mention Pence.

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lurker111

Good. We all agree that it will be Trump in 2020. Reality is a wonderful place. :)

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Ann

Lol Rob, I think the two earlier comments about Pence made it pretty darn clear Mudhouse and I were not backing Pence:)

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elvis

rob333 (zone 7a)

elvis,

The question was, "Is no one backing Pence?" Not did anyone mention Pence.

Wrong, rob. I went back up there to see if gw had edited her post. Nope. I got it right. This was it:

graywings123(7)

No one is mentioning Pence? Wouldn't he be the obvious choice?

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Annie Deighnaugh

We won't have to worry about it...humans will be annihilated by then if trump wins a 2nd term.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I too would not back Pence, Ann.

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Ann

Rob, I don't think enough would back Pence for him to win. I think we can most definitely run better candidates than Pence would be.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I agree. Not sure who I'd back.

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Red Sox

Oh heck no, I haven't been bored since Trump came down the escalator,
that's for sure. And I don't vote for entertainment, I vote for the
person who can bring about the changes I'd like to see in the country,
as most of us do. Trump keeps six or seven plates spinning at a time,
though, and I think most people (on either side) would agree that the
pace of events during his presidency has been somewhat remarkable.

The level of devolution is truly remarkable indeed. Healthcare: nope. Wall paid by Mexico: nope. Infrastructure: nope. Coal industry: nope. Manufacturing jobs: nope.

Truly remarkable change in the level of divisiveness. Otherwise a big zero.

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Delilah66

McConnell will need a job if he lives that long.

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Ann

Matt Gaetz is another Republican who comes to my mind as someone who might be going places within the party.

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bob_cville

Matt Gaetz? Isn't he the one that should be going to prison for witness tampering?

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HU9999

But he supports Trump, so does that matter?

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chase_gw

Haley hands down......the real Republican party needs to reestablish itself as a fiscally responsible , mainstream party . She can do it.

Jim Jordan would not stand a chance in a general come 2024.........not a chance.

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maifleur01

Jim Jordan allowed himself to be seen as someone that is full of hate to anyone he disagrees with during several televised hearings. People want someone to lead not burn down this country.

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chase_gw

...and others want the burn down, the anger and the divisivness that Jim Jordan would bring. Thankfully they are a dwindling minority.

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Delilah66

“Using that logic, I think we should give Obama a third and fourth term to make up for the Repubs.”

At least it’s legal; however, someone has to convince Michelle.

Me? I wish Pence would run.

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maifleur01

I have too many friends that would be hurt if Pence was ever elected for a full term. I would dislike/hate him taking over from Trump. I wish he was found fully imbedded in Trump's stuff but currently for the sake of the world still being in one piece, even though I have knots in my stomach thinking about it, he is safer for every living being than what is currently in office.

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elvis

maifleur01

Jim Jordan allowed himself to be seen as someone that is full of hate to anyone he disagrees with during several televised hearings. People want someone to lead not burn down this country.

You're thinking of someone else, mai. Jordan's not a prog leftist.

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Carro

OP, we've discussed this before. Plenty of posts on who we'd like to see run. Yes, we're thinking ahead.

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margaux

This is hilarious. Trumpers can't beliiiieeeeeve how far left the Democratic candidates are yet they pick the furthest right and the craziest as their choices in 2024. What do Graham, Jordan, Langford, and Gaetz all have in common? They've got Trump butt-kissing down to a science!

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Pence is the best "kisser".

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maifleur01

Carro the only discussion I have seen from Republicans or exRepublicans have been the desire for Trump to remain in office after 2024.

Elvis Jim Jordan at least two times has been so angry he was spitting when he was supposedly questioning someone. People to remember these things and that is not what a stable candidate does.

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Ann

"Jim Jordan allowed himself to be seen as someone that is full of hate to anyone he disagrees with during several televised hearings. "

Boy, did this comment bring Harris to my thought bubble!

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Ann

"At least it’s legal; however, someone has to convince Michelle."

I don't think she'll agree. They are busy giving serious thought to buying a 14+ million dollar home on Martha's Vineyard. It's on the ocean, so maybe they're thinking the climate crisis won't put that home in jeopardy?

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Ann

Here is the home. I believe they are under contract but have not closed yet.



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margaux

Jordan wouldn't even ask Cohen a question. He used up all his time trying to protect Trump.

Do you only know the Republicans who you see on TV? What about a GOP governor?

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Delilah66

I can take Pence’s stupidity over trump’s. I can’t see Pence kowtowing to the likes of a Miller or refusing PDB’s or firing all his cabinet and asst secretaries. He would be innocuous compared to trump, but doesn’t stand a chance.

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Carro

Ann, but climate change, amirite? How big is the carbon footprint of an enormous mansion that you live in a few weeks a year?

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margaux

LOL. Time to bash the Obamas, right?

How big is the carbon footprint of an enormous mansion that you live in a few weeks a year?

Ask Donald and Melania.

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Carro

Oh, too funny. I hope whomever the Reps run in 2024 doesn't view the White House as a conduit for a ridiculous amount of wealth and a ticket to a lavish lifestyle.

How many house does that make now? 5?

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maifleur01

Since Trump supposedly has 7 what does that make him>>>>>

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elvis

It makes him rich long before he began serving as POTUS. The Obamas, not so much.

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maifleur01

elvis that makes Carro's comment about the Obama's having 5 or at least that is what was alluded to a little strange. Many people have more than one. I would like about 9 but I will stick with this one.

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Ann

Lol, I'll stick with one as well:)

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Delilah66

Sure, Ann. The house is why Michelle would not agree. She’s that shallow.

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Ann

Delilah, I think they're enjoying their post-presidential lives and the new home will be part of that enjoyment.

Just the other day, I was thinking about Michelle running and I have my own theory. I think it would bother both Obamas very, very much if Michelle chose to run and lost to Trump. Frankly, I think that would bug them so much, that a potential loss (to Donald Trump) would play into her/their decision.

Also, it's a lot of work to campaign hard and then to serve as president. Often, presidents age quite a bit in the 8 years they serve (what often appears as more than your average 8 years of ageing). I wouldn't blame Michelle for simply not wanting to make that 10 or so year commitment (including the campaign).

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chase_gw

IMO , Michelle simply wants no part of it. She served her 8 years as FL with grace and dignity while being a great partner and mother. She had seen the price a family pays up close and personal.

As far losing to Trump...not a chance.....she would anhilate him.....besides which we are talking 2024, Trump won't be on any ticket.

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Ann

"As far losing to Trump...not a chance.....she would anhilate him.....besides which we are talking 2024, Trump won't be on any ticket."

Chase, I think you constantly underestimate Trump's potential for winning, just as you did in 2016. I think you employ "wishful thinking" more than most on HT. While I do happen to think Trump has a good chance of winning, I doubt he'll annihilate anyone or be annihilated by anyone should he lose, but I consider myself to be fairly realistic:)

By the way, when the conversation moved to Michelle, I don't think we were talking about 2024. Clearly, it's in 2020 and against Trump that many are/were wishing Michelle would run.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

I'm not sure Michelle would lose. She's smart, has been there, and is charismatic. She would do well.


And I agree, he can't run again. We have a constitution.

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Delilah66

Yes, Ann, you and chase are right. Michelle has already flatly stated she would not consider running. IIRC she said no political career was on her radar at all. That was a disappointment.

I believe she has no intention of a legal career either unless it’s to support a non-profit. I doubt ”support” would include full time or paid work. It will be interesting to see what involvement the Obamas have in the upcoming election campaigning.

”Clearly, it's in 2020 and against Trump that many are/were wishing Michelle would run.” I doubt that anyone who read -or read about- her book is expecting that. If you look upthread you’ll see only one mention of 2020 by lurker, who might have been confused.

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Ann

Rob, I totally agree with, "I'm not sure Michelle would lose". I'm most certainly not thinking she'd necessarily lose, but I think there would be a pretty good chance of it going either way.

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Delilah66

“Hmmm, what do you think the difference is? Why the different attitudes?”

HU9999 - I think it’s simply that pubs resent the continued support of and credence we give Obama rather than to their president.

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Ann

"It will be interesting to see what involvement the Obamas have in the upcoming election campaigning."

I agree. In nearly every recent clip I see of Biden lately, Biden tends to say something about the Obama/Biden administration/choices/actions. While correct, I often wonder how Obama feels about having his name so frequently pulled into Biden's campaign.

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Delilah66

“It makes him rich long before he began serving as POTUS. The Obamas, not so much.”

Where in the Constitution is “rich” listed as a requirement for a president? The Obamas sacrificed to run. donnie? Not nearly as much. JIC you misconstrue, I’m not talking about financial sacrifice.

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chase_gw

"I think you employ "wishful thinking" more than most on HT.

Ann, it's not wishful thinking it is a pragmatic view at a State level. Trump has lost much his support in three of the States he won by razor thin margins. That's a fact not a wish.

I have seen no evidence that he has regained or gained any support that would make up for those losses. That is also a fact not a wish. I have asked many times where it is that his supporters think he will make up that support. The fact that they can't seem to explain where that support will come from leads me to think it is the Trump supporters who are engaging in "wishful thinking"

However, I have also often said that much will depend on the Democratic candidate , the economy and voter turnout. I don't believe it is a given but I do believe the current information favours a Democratic win of the WH.

You think that Michele is worried about a loss to Trump, I think she would annihilate him, neither opinion is more valid that the other . One thing I am certain of, neither of us will ever know who was right.

ETA I also think it's rather silly that you and others keep pointing to my underestimating Trump in 2016 as being somehow particular to me!

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Ann

When I heard the story of the potential new Martha's Vineyard home, it was the ocean property part (climate change issue) that most caught my attention. Are they buying a home for over 14 million that they are pretty darn sure will be washed away with the rising oceans? That would be an odd choice.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Are they buying a home for over 14 million that they are pretty darn sure will be washed away with the rising oceans?


This statement could apply to any home, at any price, on the east or west coastline. Double for Florida as that state is a peninsula.

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mudhouse

Chase: I have asked many times where it is that his supporters think he will make up that support...

...However, I have also often said that much will depend on the Democratic
candidate , the economy and voter turnout.

I agree with you here, Chase. I freely admit to not spending any time at all following polls about Trump's current support in individual states at this point. (I respect those in HT that do, on both sides.) It's honestly laziness on my part, but I justify it because I really do believe that the three things you listed above (candidate, economy as we approach the election, and voter turnout) are really hard to predict with any certainty at this point.

Plus, I continue to think about how many Trump supporters choose not to participate in polling (I never do) and would rather just show up at the polls and vote.

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mudhouse

The setting for the home the Obamas are purchasing is jaw-droppingly beautiful (thanks for adding the photo, Ann.) I'm probably being influenced by our triple digit temps here right now, and lack of rain, but wow. I might be willing to not worry about being washed away...

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Delilah66

Well, I doubt that’s an immediate concern for the property which does not negate the reality of climate change.

https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:vh53xt71d

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Ann

"ETA I also think it's rather silly that you and others keep pointing to my underestimating Trump in 2016 as being somehow particular to me!"

Chase, your particular choice of wording ("anhilate"), which I assumed meant annihilate, is certainly expressing a strong opinion! Wording choices like this are quite common (and particular) to you.

"Ann, it's not wishful thinking it is a pragmatic view at a State level. Trump has lost much his support in three of the States he won by razor thin margins. That's a fact not a wish."

Have you happened to look at the state polls on Morning Consult? Have you looked at the trend lines (individually by state and in a bunch of different states)? In a high majority of all states, Trump's trend line took a significant dive in the first couple months of his presidency and in most states, it has remained fairly stable since about March of 2017. At the same time, his overall approval has remained steady and near the higher end of his range for 6 or more months now (and is several points higher than his favorability the day before the 2016 election). Also, at the same time, his Republican approval is very strong and remains so. Have you ever questioned your "State level" pragmatic view based on the way those individual state trend lines look? Have you ever wondered why, in nearly every one of them, the trend line tanked before he'd done anything in office and they've remained stable since? Are you of the impression that 2016 Trump voters changed their mind about him within 60 days of his inauguration (in nearly every state in the country) and that's how they still feel today (which is what one could logically glean from those state by state trend lines)? Because, if you are garnering your "State level" theory from those polls, that is the very odd situation those polls show.

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Ann

"This statement could apply to any home, at any price, on the east or west coastline. Double for Florida as that state is a peninsula."

Yes, it could. Because of that, I would think a new buyer of a home (especially a really expensive one) in those ocean locations would more likely be a person who is not one who feels great certainty about the rising oceans. I'd think a person who had strong concerns about climate change/rising oceans might choose a beautiful, but non-ocean front, location for their own home because who would want to spend a lot of money on a home they felt had a good chance of being washed away?

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Delilah66

chase: ETA I also think it's rather silly that you and others keep pointing to my underestimating Trump in 2016 as being somehow particular to me!

I think my first post on HT was AFTER November 2016. I remember being stunned during his campaign that he was the pub's choice...and otherwise hopeful that he would not be elected.

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chase_gw

Ann I agree that his approval took it's biggest hit in about the first 6 month BUT that hit has stayed, there has been no improvement. Yes , they tanked in the first 6 months, or so, and have stayed tanked.

Between OH, PA MI and WI he is DOWN 17% in one of the States and 20% in the other three.

You may call continually down 17% - 20% ,with no sign of improvement, over two years , stable, I guess one could say that. They have remained stable in their disapproval of Trump.

He only won by 80K votes in three of those States....80K over all three. My point is the support is not returning in those States and 2018 reinforced that. Where is he going to make up those losses? If he losses even two of the four he must win a State he lost in 2016. Which one would that be? Or is it your contention that the 20% , or so, that have turned on him and stayed turned on him, will suddenly return to the flock? "Now that is wishful thinking"

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/

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Ziemia(6a)

Thinking that this home on the Vineyard is subject to being washed away by the increase in ocean level is disconnected to the facts ref the actual placement of the structure AND what is up with the rising sea level.

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maifleur01

Every day Trump proves he is not prepared to be President after being in the office this long.

I did find it interesting that Biden is supposed to simply forget eight years of his life because no candidate ever brings up things that they would have done in that amount of time. Silly sounding when written.

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Ann

Chase, you normally discuss 3 states and, today, you've added Ohio as a 4th. Sure, he has a chance of losing Ohio, but I'll be surprised if he can't win Ohio. If I remember correctly, he can lose two of three of Wisconsin, Penn, and Michigan and still win. States he is hoping to pick up are Nevada, New Hampshire, Minnesota and Maine. Others, like New Mexico, are less likely for him but his campaign has their eye on them.

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Ann

"If he losses even two of the four he must win a State he lost in 2016."

Is this true? I thought it was, if he loses all three, he'd need pickups. I thought he could lose 2 of the three (again, I'm going back to the three you usually discuss). I'd have to go look at the electoral numbers from each. I may do that later if it holds my attention.

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Ann

Okay, I found part of the answer, Chase. He can lose both Michigan and Pennsylvania and still win if all else remains as it was in 2016. Let me look into Wisconsin.

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mudhouse

Others, like New Mexico, are less likely for him but his campaign has their eye on them.

Obviously, I'd love for Trump to flip New Mexico. Brad Parscale did say he thought it was in play for 2020, in an interview several months ago. I guess we'll be getting more phone calls on the land line.

I read a CBS article yesterday that the Epstein ranch outside of Santa Fe is starting to be a new focus in the investigation. Bill Richardson is known to have visited Epstein there at least once. I have no idea where this will go, but if other NM Democrats turn out to be connected to the ranch or to potential crimes committed there, it could have an impact with some NM voters, I think. Who knows.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-new-mexico-ranch-official-says-there-is-a-story-to-be-told-in-new-mexico/

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Delilah66

Can anyone help me with trump’s political career timeline? I only have 2 bullet items compared to Stan’s 12 related to President Obama’s political preparations and wins. Yes, I’m counting the first 2, which are relevant to his eventual roles in politics unlike real estate bankruptcies. If we want to include literacy....

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chase_gw

His results in these States are even worse than 2016....Nevada -21%, NH -18%, Minnesota -17% , Maine -21%...and holding steady for two years .....and they will all suddenly turn around in 2020..."wishful thinking"


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Ann

Well now I'm confused because I was under the impression there are 538 electoral votes in total, yet in 2016, the count was 304 Trump and 227 Clinton, which only totals 531. If I add Michigan (16) and Penn (20) to the 227 Clinton got, it would only take that total to 263. If I subtract those 36 from the 304 Trump won, it would reduce him to 268. In this scenario, neither could win, so I don't know where the missing 7 electoral votes were from in 2016.

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Ann

Just for a tad more Morning Consult "state" perspective or a walk down memory lane, in Sept. 2016, they were predicting a Clinton electoral win of 321 to 195.


https://morningconsult.com/50-state-poll/

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chase_gw

Yes but that was then and this is now..........there is no Clinton and Trump has a two year record of carp and very little if any wins. He has shown himself to be a sham with no ability to really make a deal or deliver on his great promises....not a one.

It will be what it will be but I think , based on the data available, Trump is at the disadvantage. But yes anything is possible.


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Ann

"there is no Clinton"

Ahhhh yes, but there may be a Biden or Warren and I like that even better:)

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HU9999

HU9999 - I think it’s simply that pubs resent the continued support of and credence we give Obama rather than to their president.

I think there is a lot more to it than that. My post gave a big hint, but somebody cannot handle the truth and poofed it.

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chase_gw

"Ahhhh yes, but there may be a Biden or Warren and I like that even better"


Me too !!!!!

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Stan Areted

I see some people can't handle the truth! ;)

It's to be expected.

Ann, I am taking the opportunity to let you know how much I appreciate your very informative, accurate and thought provoking posts. You take a great deal of time to back up your claims and I learn from the information you share. Additionally, you exhibit great patience with diversion and obfuscation yet stay on point to prevail.

Kudos to you and posters like you!

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Ann

Thanks Stan. That's a very nice compliment from you.

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Tilly Teabag

Stan Areted


”and posters like you!”


How do you know posters like her? Was there a poll on it?

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Andie

I see some people can't handle the truth! ;)


What truth would that be?

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Stan Areted

The truth I posted earlier today.


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Stan Areted

Prim Rose:

ooooooooooooh, someone has appointed herself the HT seer. Sees all truth?? Anoints worthy posters?? And believes her posts are forever remembered.

Hmmmm .....




ROTF!

Bored much? Interjection is your specialty.

Just answering a question politely, NOYB

Your game playing is showing with "her posts," too.

Ain't you tired, "Prim Rose?"

Chucklepost!

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margaux

For anyone who missed it, her truth is that Obama was elected out of white guilt--his "melanin" won him the WH.

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Prim Rose

Man .... the overreaction!! Hoot!!

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Ziemia(6a)

Yes - and the supposed truth that some couldn't handle here has been taken care of by management.

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Prim Rose

The "truth" .......

One person's opinion. No more no less.

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Stan Areted

"Her truth?"

"His truth?"

More game playing "margaux."

We see you!

I'll hand you this--you got the position right except for one thing--I don't think guilt was involved.

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Stan Areted

My perception is different.

Michelle Obama appeared nice enough when things were going her way.

She did not bother to hide her nastiness when she didn't like someone or a situation--Donald Trump's inauguration and BO flirting with another woman and taking a selfies with her while seated overseas come to mind. In fact, she appeared to revel in displaying scowls and side eyes.

Say what you will, I think Melania is much prettier, classier, and nicer.

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Prim Rose

If only that poster had a shred of evidence, research, references to back up such a scholarly opinion!!!

gosh, darn, I'd be real interested to learn about melanin and it's part in electing President Obama!!

Fascinating theory, good for lots and lots of much needed attention, amirite?



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Ann

Don't even get me started on Michelle's behavior on Trump's inauguration day! I've never seen anything like it from a First Lady.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

Yes we really should not start remembering inauguration day! Oh lets......

tRump bounced out of the car and ran up the steps leaving his latest purchased immigrant to get up the steps alone.

Michelle asking Obama to go to the car and help Melania up the step and Michelle reaching out to help her the rest of the way up the steps.

You know why you never saw that before? All husbands on inauguration day got out of the car, waited for their wife, took her arm and walked up the steps together.

If I supported that pig I would not want to get started remembering that day either.

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margaux

Michelle's behavior on Inauguration Day toward Donald and Melania was impeccable. if you're talking about the confusion of the gift-giving, you're basing your opinion entirely on a video clip of a few seconds. If you're talking about some type of momentarily sad face caught on camera, most of us would feel sad leaving the presidency and our home of eight years. I can empathize with her feelings that day. So what are you talking about? It had to be really awful since you've "never seen anything like it."

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chase_gw

" I don't know where the missing 7 electoral votes were from in 2016"

Seven electors voted for other than Clinton or Trump.

In fact one elector in your State of Colorado voted for Kasich instead of Clinton but was replaced by another elector. The circuit court just settled that case and found that electors do NOT have to vote with their States popular vote.

edited to clarify........the Colorado elector was not part of the seven.

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leona_2008

Well, we can't talk about First Ladies on Inauguration Day without this little goody.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=melania+inauguration+sad+face&view=detail&mid=669A1E4C7F2F4EE10641669A1E4C7F2F4EE10641&FORM=VIRE

For some reason, I can't post the video itself.

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Ann

Yeah, I was thinking later yesterday about electors going to other candidates (like third party candidates). Then, I don't know that the process is from there for one candidate to get to 270. But, in any case, if Trump would have lost Michigan and Penn, and those two states would have gone to Hillary, he would have had more electoral votes than her, but neither would have had 270.

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Ann

Chase, what is it that makes you think Trump can't lose two of those four states and still win the election (without other pickups)? Do you have a reference or a calculation or were you just thinking that? One article I read said he can afford to lose both Michigan and Penn, and that does seem likely based on the numbers. I don't remember which article it was but I can look for it later if there is still confusion - but that article didn't lay out the numbers - it simply made the statement.

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chase_gw

It is my recollection that the calculation was that he could not win if he lost two of the three he won with the razor thin margin of 80K votes, WI MI and PA. I can't recall where I heard it or where I read that, it was a long while ago.

Ohio was not part of that calculation , I only mentioned Ohio because it is looking shaky for Trump and I think that is pretty much a must win for him given the number of electoral votes. Particularly shaky if Biden is the nominee.Ohio was my thought and not part of what I originally recall being reported.

edited

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Andie

Leona, that's what I thought Ann was referring to when she wrote Michelle's name. She just got the two of them confused.

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margaux

It's very easy to look at a map and count electoral votes from states that you think Trump can win. It's not rocket science.

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Kathy

Deal from China for those who are interested.



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Ann

Margaux, I provided an example where in 2016, had Clinton won Penn and Michigan, she would have had fewer electoral votes than Trump would have had if he would have lost those two states. Neither would have had the needed 270. So, I'm trying to understand why Chase is saying Trump can't lose two of those four states she mentioned and still win. I don't think that's true. Do you?

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Ann

Here is the comment I'm questioning, Margaux. Do you agree with Chase's 4th sentence in this paragraph (the one she began with "If he losses")? I'm sure she meant loses rather than losses because the sentence wouldn't make sense otherwise, but aside from the typo, I don't think it's true.

"He only won by 80K votes in three of those States....80K over all three. My point is the support is not returning in those States and 2018 reinforced that. Where is he going to make up those losses? If he losses even two of the four he must win a State he lost in 2016. Which one would that be? Or is it your contention that the 20% , or so, that have turned on him and stayed turned on him, will suddenly return to the flock? "Now that is wishful thinking"

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Ann

Sorry, I just saw this comment for the first time. Chase, I think he can lose any two of these three states (but not the third) and still win reelection if no other states change.

"It is my recollection that the calculation was that he could not win if he lost two of the three he won with the razor thin margin of 80K votes, WI MI and PA. I can't recall where I heard it or where I read that, it was a long while ago."

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Ann

Chase, I can't find an article that lays out the specific numbers, but here is the NBC article I found earlier today. Both Michigan and Penn have more electoral votes than Wisconsin, so IMO, Trump could lose any combination of two of these three states and still win the election if all other states remained as they were in 2016. You and I have talked about this multiple times since 2016, so I think this is a good time to get the proper and straightened out info about these states and their potential impact.

"But Trump could lose Michigan and Pennsylvania and still win the Electoral College, so long as he carries every other place he won in 2016. And Wisconsin didn't provide as clear a verdict in 2018. Even with favorable turnout in a "blue wave," Democrats won Wisconsin's governor's race only by a point and failed to gain a House seat. If enough Trump voters who sat out 2018 — particularly white working-class men — return to the polls in 2020, the Badger State could easily stay red."


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/how-trump-could-lose-5-million-votes-still-win-2020-n1031601

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Ann

Ahhh, I found my 7 electoral votes too. This NBC article say Trump won 306 to 232. Now, if we subtract the 36 electoral votes from Mich and Penn from 306, we get to 270, which is the minimum a candidate would need to win. Good, now it all makes logical sense and I won't need to take the time counting Trump and Clinton states individually:)

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Ziemia(6a)

Inauguration day -

On the WH steps greeting - there were some awkward moments for Melania. First, her husband rushed up the steps without waiting for Melania.

Second, she expected to shake hands with Michelle - and was unprepared for the warm greeting from Michelle - a hug and a kiss on the cheek.

Here's some stills from the inauguration (the actual undoctored video is better).

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chase_gw

Ann, count, one , two or three...Trump is tanking in all three and barely surviving in Ohio.

If he loses them what States is he realistically going to pick up? Given his numbers in Wi, MI and PA I think the wishful thinking is on your part....not mine.

80 K votes over threes States and less than 1% in each one of them. If that is your idea of a great chance in 2020 given the current numbers then have at it....but please don't accuse me of "wishful thinking"..it's laughable or as you would say LOL

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Ziemia(6a)

The final tally of the electoral college on Monday December 19, 2016 gave Trump 304 electoral votes while Clinton received 227.

There were 7 "faithless" electors.

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Ann

Chase, lol, he won all three (by a small margin), and that now gives you confidence that he can't win even one of three (by even a small margin) next time.

Let's see, I'm thinking he has a pretty good chance of winning at least one out of three states he won all three of last time and you're thinking his opponent will have a good chance of winning all three of three states Trump happened to win last time.

Hmmm, I think I'd rather be on my side of this equation.

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Ann

Ziemia, that's our third variation of the total electoral count from 2016, and each source varies. I'll pull in a fourth, CNN. Finally we have at least 2 in agreement as CNN agrees with NBC (306 to 232).


https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/president

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Ann

"80 K votes over threes States and less than 1% in each one of them. If that is your idea of a great chance in 2020 given the current numbers then have at it....but please don't accuse me of "wishful thinking"..it's laughable or as you would say LOL"

Great chance of winning all three? Nope. But, he sure doesn't need to. Better chance than not of winning at least one of the three? Yes, certainly!

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Ziemia(6a)

Ann, you seem to be relying on election night numbers - which is not the final count.

The energetic argument about whether or not Trump has enough votes now to win in 2020 is close to being esoteric.

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chase_gw

"Let's see, I'm thinking he has a pretty good chance of winning at least one out of three states he won all three of last time"

A pretty good chance of winning at least one......which one would that be?

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Ann

Ziemia, the NBC article I posted was from last month. It said 306 to 232. Clearly, there must be some way of determining which of the three sets of numbers from four different sources are right. I have to admit, it is a little weird there are so many variations. But, there is nothing special about the chart you posted that makes me think it's necessarily the "right" answer. Are you convinced it is?

I have no idea what you mean by your "energetic argument" sentence.

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margaux

What you're not putting into the equation is voter turnout, which was dampened by Hillary as our candidate. We won't make that mistake again (I'm talking to you, Bernie supporters.) 2018 proved that.

Voters choose an unknown Dem over Trump.

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Ann

Chase, I've no clue which states he'll keep, lose, or add. But I think if you choose any combination of three states he won (by any margin at all), throughout the entire country, the odds that he'll be able to win at least one of those three next time are more in his favor than not. To assume you can choose any three states he won (these three or any three) and then bet he'll lose all three of the three - I think the odds are against that outcome.

I bet if these two scenarios were in a betting market, the odds of the former would be significantly better than the odds of the latter.

ETA: As I wrote earlier, I'd rather be on my side of this particular equation. If he needed to win 3 of 3, that would be a very different scenario. If he needed to win 2 of 3, still considerably more difficult than only needing one 1 of the 3. I'd say there are pretty good odds for 1 of 3. Now, of course, this scenario will not likely play out as other states have a high likelihood of at least a few coming into play, but I'll sure make a gentleman's bet right now that Trump will not lose all three of Michigan, Penn, and Wisconsin. I think the chances of that are very slim.

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chase_gw

Yes Ann that's what you think...but what matters is what the people of MI, PA, WI and maybe OH think and right now,,,,actually for the last two years.... they think Trump is not their guy, I'll go with them.......but keep on with your wishful thinking of what you think they will think,

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margaux

It's not an odds game based on chance. It's not Let's Make a Deal, where you have to pick Door#1, Door #2, or Door#3.

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Ann

Actually margaux, prediction of the outcome of an election is kind of an odds game (or better described as a guessing game at this point). You don't know, Chase doesn't know, and I don't know who will win the presidency in 2020:)

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margaux

Yes, but you're assigning odds to the three states in play and assuming that his odds are good at winning one. You're viewing it as a game of chance, like a roll of the dice. If that was true, he'd have a one-in-three chance of winning any three states.

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Ziemia(6a)

So very hard to pin the the electoral college votes for 2016. Whew.

Maybe Archives dot gov is right? (National Archives)

Pence (vp) got more than Trump

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2016/election-results.html

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Ann

"he'd have a one-in-three chance of winning any three states"

Well no, that's not at all what I was suggesting. What I was suggesting is that he'd have a high chance of winning at least one state of any three states he won last time. Great big difference! For example, if the three states were three he lost (for example, let's take CA, NY, and Oregon). I think he has close to 0% chance of winning any one of those three.

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Andie

Don't even get me started on Michelle's behavior on Trump's inauguration day! I've never seen anything like it from a First Lady.


How about this? What a guy!







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Ziemia(6a)

That photo is from this trip. Keeping it real - Trump has been doing this since inauguration day.

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Ann

Ziemia, what do you think should happen in this scenario? Trump is on the side of the car where Macron is standing. Melania is on the other side. Each of their doors appear like they were opened for them at about the same time. Do you think Trump should get out, ignore Macron, and walk to the other side to escort Melania and, only then, acknowledge Macron, who was standing right outside Trump's side. Or, do you think Melania should scoot across the seat to get out right after Trump? Or, do you think Macron should be waiting on the side of the car Melania is on? Or, do you think Trump should not even take a step toward Macron until Melania has made her way around the car? Or, other?

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Ziemia(6a)

Ann, it was discussed years ago. In 2017 a few times. Maybe revisit that old info?

PS: this is what you pick up on - interesting.

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Ziemia(6a)

This is more relevant to 2020.

Whatever.


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Ann

Ziemia, here is Obama in Cuba doing exactly as Trump did. Michelle also accompanied her husband on this trip. Does this look similar? Quite appropriate in both situations, I'd say, unless your only goal is to find/create fault with one and not the other.





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maifleur01

Trump should have done what any man with manners would have done. If you look at most couples in a vehicle the man is generally on the left with the woman on the right. If door is opened man gets out and walks around and either assists the woman if needed or simply stands there until she is ready to start walking. A man with manners no matter what side of a vehicle he exits would go to where the woman. He may for security reasons have to sit on the right side but it does not give him freedom to ignore any woman he is with much less his spouse.

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maifleur01

Ann show a picture after Obama has shaken hands. Somehow I doubt he left his wife standing by herself when she exited.

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roxsol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Vw7Mx21A0

I like how it is done in this video. Watch to the end.

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Annie Deighnaugh

The difference between Ann's and Andie's photos is obama hadn't left the car yet whereas trump is walking away from it before M has even gotten out.

And we have video of obama sharing an umbrella with others vs. trump who left M in the rain and doesn't even apparently know how to close one.

But this is all distraction compared to the very real and scary issues of how this country is going to survive until 2020, let alone 2024 if trump wins reëlection.

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roxsol

And, I believe that the photo Ann has shown is after the Obama family has just landed in Cuba, left the airplane and are getting into their waiting limos. The family is already in the car/cars. The security man seems to be waiting to close the door for Obama after he says his goodbyes.

Best of luck in your next election, America.

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Ziemia(6a)

TY, Roxsol and others.

I value the team work.


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Ann

Thanks for the good luck wish, Roxsol. I wish the same to you in your next election:)

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roxsol

Ann, we’re going to need it :(

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Ann

Speaking of other leaders and/or elections, I got a kick out of this article. Trump has higher approval than any leader at the G7 except for Abe. Higher than Trudeau, Macron, Merkel (the supposed leader of the free world, remember that narrative?), Johnson, and Conte (just resigned but still in office).


https://news.yahoo.com/g7-trump-one-popular-ones-172505868.html


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roxsol

Wow. Ann, I bet if you sent that report to President Trump, he’d be so chuffed, he’d tweet it out to all. He loves stuff like that!

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Ann

I bet he would or does (if he's aware of it) consider that a positive for him. To be viewed more favorably in our country than the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, U.K., and Italy are in theirs is definitely interesting.

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Stan Areted

Thanks, Ann, that information that Trump has a higher approval for any leader in G7 except for one, is just affirming what we already know!

Poor liberals, can't find a bone!

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chase_gw

We just have higher expectations of our leaders.

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roxsol

I don’t know what it means but both Putin and Kim Jong Un have even higher approval ratings in their own countries. That’s interesting, too.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/05/putins-approval-rating-steadily-increases-to-68-survey-says-a66290

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Stan Areted

Chase:

We just have higher expectations of our leaders.

In what manner? President Trump is EXCEEDING my expectations for getting things done. I've never been so satisifed with a vote I've casted.

If some of us had wanted an ineffectual, incompetent president that held his pinkie out while drinking tea and smiling at the right time for photo ops, we would have voted for another Barack Obama type.

Enjoy your high expectations and smug attitude.


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Kathy

Instead we got a carnival barker salesman who will say whatever he thinks people want to hear to clinch his sale. Recently he told leaders at the G7 he regretted the tariffs. That’s what he thought they wanted to hear. Now the WH is in damage mode again. Strategic? You bet not! Idiotic.

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Delilah66

I think I get your point chase. Is it: It‘s easier for someone (trump) to exceed their supporters’ expectations when the supporters’ expectations are low?

I thought your statement was easily understood, but maybe I was overestimating the comprehension of some of your readers.

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Delilah66

Ziemia thank you the inauguration video reminder. After this viewing I’m wondering whether the back of her blue coat was emblazoned with “I really don’t care... do u? Or maybe the face was the inspiration for the olive edition.

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chase_gw

Whether their expectations are low or whether they are simply in line with Trumps values and behaviours and therefore he meets or exceeds thier expectations, I can't say. I can only say that it is behaviour that would not be tolerated here as demonstrated by Trudeau's fall from grace.

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Annie Deighnaugh

stan: In what manner? President Trump is EXCEEDING my expectations for getting things done. I've never been so satisifed with a vote I've casted.

Sorry, stan...shredding existing processes isn't getting things done. It's just destruction.

Getting things done requires:

  • understanding what is, what works, what doesn't
  • defining the end goals of a new process
  • developing a new process to achieve those goals that eliminates what's broken and preserves what's working in the current process
  • analyzing that new path for consequences both intended, and unintended and to see if the goals are achieved more efficiently
  • developing a path to transition to that new process and implementing it
  • analyzing the results of that new process to see if it is an improvement... are the goals achieved with fewer negative consequences

trump has been great at the former but the latter is completely beyond him or anyone on his team. To wit:

  • healthcare...what a revelation to think of repeal *and replace* but that latter was too hard...healthcare is complicated...who knew? So he's just working on repealing and to heck with the consequences. The little changes he did make to it have resulted in higher costs with fewer covered.
  • the border crisis where despite all his unconstitutional and court defying efforts, the situation is only getting worse and he's never getting his wall and mexico is never paying for it
  • trade with china...slapping on tariffs, threatening tariffs, postponing tariffs, commanding businesses to stop dealing with china, paying agribusiness big subsidies while farmers who are suffering go uncompensated, while consumers get stuck with the costs leading to a downturn in economic growth...and for what? There are no stated targets or defined objectives while *real* trade issues such as dumping, piracy and technology security go unaddressed.
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Stan Areted

President Trump would have had more healthcare and immigration changes in place if he didn't have to fight Republican Swamp Creatures, as well.

That's fine, as that is part of our checks and balances.

I will hand it to democrats, they stick together no matter what for a win.

I'm patient; President Trump has already made a great deal of progress when he didn't need anyone else--the latest being student debt of permanently disabled veterans being forgiven, immigration changes (which are constantly being challenged in court--as soon as democrats get something they say they want, they want something different--anything against our President).

The elimination of ill advised and burdensome regulations on businesses, the tax breaks, and most of all, the appontment of TWO U.S. Supreme Court justices WITHOUT any agenda, have been most gratifying, as well as other judicial positions filled across the country.

I can't wait to vote for him again.


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Kathy

Stan, you actually believed Trump when he said he forgave disabled veterans student loans?

Disabled service members are already entitled to student debt forgiveness under the U.S. Education Department's total and permanent disability discharge option.

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Kathy

Too many Republicans want to believe Trump so they can justify voting for him. Start fact checking his act.

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Ann

"We just have higher expectations of our leaders. "

Trudeau? LOL!

ETA: Cute socks though.

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chase_gw

It is because of those higher standards that Trudeau has tanked the way he has.

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Ann

" I can only say that it is behaviour that would not be tolerated here as demonstrated by Trudeau's fall from grace."

Let's get real. Trudeau isn't now and never was leader material. He just got by on his good looks and never had a thing to offer when it comes to leadership.

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Delilah66

“President Trump would have had more healthcare and immigration changes in place if he didn't have to fight Republican Swamp Creatures, as well.”

Another promise but not kept.

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Ziemia(6a)

So, Trump couldn't get something negotiated because too few GOP in Congress didn't agree with him.

At least a TrumpFan finally said that.

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Ann

Stan, me too. I simply can't wait to vote for him again and by the enthusiasm shown at his rallies, we're not alone.

Biden on the other hand can draw a couple dozen people, but then he can't figure out what state he's in. It's not funny when a person mentally deteriorates as Biden is before everyone's very eyes, and I doubt there is anyone from either party that doesn't simply hold their breath each time he opens his mouth. It will be embarrassing for Biden (and sad) within minutes - in what is beginning to seem like every time he speaks. I bet Dems just wish what they got from Biden was simple gaffes. To call these gaffes doesn't even make sense anymore.

Warren, unlike Biden, can draw a crowd and generate enthusiasm. But, can she get enough votes with her policy plans? I'd sincerely hate to be in the position Dems are in right now and I'd feel worse than I did the year McCain was the GOP nominee and I just couldn't shake the gut feeling that year that McCain didn't stand a chance.

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leona_2008

Let's see if I can help the trump supporters out in their selection for 2024, assuming they haven't shredded The Constitution by then. First, let's look to TV personalities. We'll start with the reality shows. Uh-oh. Help me out here because I don't watch them.


While I'm waiting for suggestions from that category, where else can we look? Maybe Kanye? He likes the attention. He can grab a mike anywhere, capture TV cameras even in The Oval Office while he spouts gibberish. We'd have to keep him off his meds. Kim would make a fabulous FL! Think of it. She seems determined to stand by Kanye on or off meds. She could serve heads of state champagne off her backside!


Wait a minute. Kanye's black. Let's think this through. On the one hand, do you really want another black POTUS? On the other, he's the right kind of black man. He supports trump. Now, wouldn't that be something? He could invite David Duke to the WH. He could appoint Richard Spencer to some position. A black man embracing White Nationalism! Oops. Is that going too far? Hey, we're brainstorming here looking for another trump. Don't let rational thinking get in the way too much.


My Liberal brain is screaming, "Enough!" If we can't come up with a reality TV star and Kanye won't do, I'm running out of ideas. Wait. Wait! Thanksgiving is coming up. Aha! The crazy uncle at the Thanksgiving table! Everybody's got one, right? Okay, maybe not everyone, but this opened up a smorgasbord of possible candidates! You're welcome. I'm done now.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Trump would have had more healthcare changes?? Trump should be thanking McCain every day for his thumbs down on getting rid of the ACA. If he had done a thumbs up it would have been a total disaster for trump and the gop who had absolutely no replacement in the works, nor had any plans to do so.

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Ann

"So, Trump couldn't get something negotiated because too few GOP in Congress didn't agree with him."

Nope, but here is the real reason why all sorts of things often can't get done by several administrations. What will Dems decide? Will they toss it out the window and do you think they should? Reid, clearly, has always been a big believer in eliminating all sorts of safe guards for the party not in control.

"Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell issued a stern rebuke to Democrats pushing to end the legislative filibuster.

A New York Times op-ed by the Kentucky Republican Thursday offers a detailed defense of the filibuster, which effectively requires any piece of legislative to have at least 60 votes in the 100-member chamber, rather than a bare majority of 51. McConnell's opinion piece comes days after his Democratic predecessor as majority leader, former Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, called for the filibuster's demise. Reid argued the practice prevents the will of the people from being carried out and is undemocratic.

McConnell disagreed, saying the 60-vote requirement ensures legislation passed by the chamber is the result of compromise and negotiation, not sheer majority whim."

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Stan Areted

Ann

" I can only say that it is behaviour that would not be tolerated here as demonstrated by Trudeau's fall from grace."

Let's get real. Trudeau isn't now and never was leader material. He just got by on his good looks and never had a thing to offer when it comes to leadership


Oh, Ann, maybe not be so hasty--Trudeau has more going for him than his looks and his socks--I recall comments about his attractive posterior, too.


You know, the kind of comments that would be labeled sexist and outrageous if applied to a woman.


That might need to be updated--perhaps his posterior has fallen along with his ratings!

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Ziemia(6a)

McConnell makes excuses for not exposing the GOP divides in Congress.

He needs to blame the Dems. It riles up the GOP voters.

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roxsol

I think President Trump must think Justin is a real sweetie. He has sent cute little notes to him...don’t tell Kim.

https://www.businessinsider.com/canada-thought-trump-sharpie-note-trudeau-was-prank-report-2019-8

Trump sent the Canadian Embassy a note joking that he hoped Trudeau wasn't 'the anti-Trump,' and the Canadian ambassador reportedly thought they were being pranked

Grace Panetta

The Canadian ambassador to the US thought he was being pranked when President Donald Trump sent Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a note jokingly saying he hoped Trudeau wasn't "the anti-Trump,"

Citing sources familiar with the matter, Axios said that when Bloomberg Businessweek featured Trudeau on its May 2017 cover naming him "the anti-Trump," Trump ripped the cover off the magazine, wrote something like "Looking good! Hope it's not true!" in silver Sharpie, and sent it to the Canadian Embassy in Washington, DC.

While Trump intended for the note to be a light-hearted joke, the Canadian ambassador initially thought someone was pranking the embassy and reached out to the White House to confirm it was real, sources told Axios.

One source told the outlet that while some White House staff members suggested that the annotated cover wasn't the right way to correspond with a fellow world leader, they eventually thought that "it was done in good fun and would be interpreted as positive outreach."

Axios reported that Trump and Trudeau had exchanged multiple handwritten notes — at least two written in Trump's trademark Sharpie — on the US-Canada trade relationship and other topics.

The once amicable and calm US-Canada relationship was upended after Trump took office and attacked Canada's trade policies, enacted tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel, and insisted on renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement.


In December 2017, Trump sent Trudeau a note lamenting the goods-trade deficit between the US and Canada, writing something like "Not good!" in Sharpie, a source told Axios.

In response, Trudeau sent Trump documents from the Office of the US Trade Representative showing that the US had a $12.5 billion overall trade surplus with Canada in 2016, sources told Axios.

A Canadian official told Axios that "it is certainly true that there were disagreements between our 2 countries about the figures, and we repeatedly pointed to USTR and U.S. Commerce's own figures." The official did not deny that Trump sent Trudeau the Bloomberg cover.



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Ann

Ziemia, divides are to be expected in both chambers of Congress. Trump impeachment is an example of one of them right now in the House. The Green New Deal is another. But, I'm not sure differences of opinion (within a single party) on either topic wouldn't warrant excuses. Would you agree?

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Ann

Back to the OP for a moment. I just saw this article and see Haley is taking a future run very seriously. I was previously not aware of her recent fund raising efforts, so this was interesting to me.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/haley-pence-rivalry-heats-up-as-gop-weighs-post-trump-future/ar-AAGgxB9?ocid=spartandhp

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chase_gw

" I was previously not aware of her recent fund raising efforts,"

Ann, I know she was speaking at a donor retreat but I can't find anything that indicates she was actually fundraising for herself. I thought you had to have a registered campaign to do that. Can you point me to your information as I think Haley will be the candidate in 2024 and is worth watching.

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roxsol

Lol, Delilah. I think (I hope) the note was just done in fun. Unusual, but funny.

I see that Andrew Scheer (Canada Conservative) has a history of some very intolerant thoughts about same se* marriage. I usually give my vote to Canadian Conservatives, but this year,and for other reasons, Scheer and his history, is a deal breaker in getting my vote, probably.


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Ann

Chase, I hadn't heard anything about Haley's efforts until reading this article. So the only info I have is the article I already linked in my comment this morning. From the article:

"The Pence team has recently asked senior Republicans for updates on Haley’s outreach to donors. And with Haley embarking on a national fundraising tour and promoting a new outside political group"

Later in the same linked article, there are a couple paragraphs beginning with "Pence's inner circle" that discuss the same donor topic. If you choose to read the article, you'll know as much as I do. As I said in my first comment about it, I wasn't previously aware of what I read in this article.

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Ann

Roxsol, don't worry about your vote yet. I heard it's barbecue season in Canada and too early to think about the October election. Instead, some Canadians must be thinking and talking about the U.S. election next year as they enjoy their barbecues. The Canadians on HT talk a lot more about the U.S. election 15 months away than they do about the Canadian election less than 2 months away. The U.S. election tends to garner Canadian interest even during Canada's barbecue season. But, with all that said, I kind of get it:)

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chase_gw

Thanks Ann, I did read the article and it is clear she is " reaching " out to establish herself in fundraising circles but has taken no steps towards establishing a campaign nor doing any fundraising......that I can find. Was interested if you had more.

I don't think she will take steps towards actual fundraising until after 2020......like the day after the eelection !!!! She has cleared eyed ambitions......smart lady.

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Ziemia(6a)

Ref Justin at G7.

Short video at link (don't need a twitter account)

"Justin Trudeau... doing his thing at the #G7Summit. I wonder if Trump is far behind?" https://t.co/YbpxasRLuw

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Ann

Gosh, I know American campaigns go on for some time, but establishing a 2024 campaign in 2019 might be a new record, even in the U.S..

Haley's name regularly comes up as a person some hope will run for office. I remember the same was true with Condi and was/is with Michelle. Neither of the latter two have expressed interest of their own. It looks like there is a much higher chance these speculations about Haley might actually pan out in the future.

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Ann

I just heard on Fox News, the leaders (and I'll assume spouses) are about to arrive at a big G7 dinner. I'm hoping for some good pictures over the next half hour or so.

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margaux

Going back to the Electoral College discussion for a moment, I forgot I had this in my pictures folder or I would've posted it yesterday You can easily do the math. He has 36 votes to worry about. PA and OH flipping could do it.




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chase_gw

"Gosh, I know American campaigns go on for some time, but establishing a 2024 campaign in 2019 might be a new record, even in the U.S.."

Which is precisely why I was pretty sure she hadn't ....


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Ann

Ahhh yes, this will be what is being called the "big family photo" according to an update and another shot of the outside of the venue.

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chase_gw

What has the G7 got to do with 2024 ? Did you want to start another thread ?

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margaux

You did see my link to Niki's Stand for America, her issues-oriented organization? When someone starts an organization about issues, I'd call that campaigning.

She is fundraising for Senate candidates now.

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Ann

Darn, Chris Wallace's show started and I bet they won't interrupt that to show the arrivals at the dinner. I guess I'll see any video and any pictures later on.

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Ann

Margaux, I'd agree Haley's current actions might indicate a good chance she'll run in the future. I wasn't aware of these actions until today. Good news IMO.

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Ann

"Did you want to start another thread ?"

Good idea. I'll think I'll choose to start one specifically about the pictures from the G7 because that could be an enjoyable and potentially fun topic IMO.

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margaux

I would like to see her run. She might save the GOP from further destruction.

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roxsol

“But, with all that said, I kind of get it:)”

Thanks, Ann, for understanding:)

That’s what good neighbours do.

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Ann

Lol, back to a conversation from yesterday. On Chris Wallace's show they had a split screen and were showing the arrival of a couple (in a limo) as the Macrons waited outside the G7 dinner event location. The limo drove up, two men (one on either side of the car) opened the doors for the man and his wife in unison. The arriving man (I'm not sure who the white haired man is) stepped out and, immediately, Macron and the man, approached and greeted one another. As this was ongoing, the man's wife walked around the back of the limo (by herself, OMG, imagine that), and then, the group of 4 greeted one another. Precisely as was the case in the photo of Trump meeting Macron further up! Again, this is the very natural progression of these greetings.

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chase_gw

"and then, the group of 4 greeted one another"

No that is not what happened...Trump did NOT wait for his wife so the four could greet each other. He immediately walked up to Macron leaving Melania to "catch up' Boorish and oh so Trump... that's who he is.

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Ann

That's exactly what happened today. The men walked toward and greeted each other first immediately, and independent of the later group greeting. That occurred only after the woman had walked around the car. In both situations, Macron's wife stood back and waited as the initial greeting between the men took place and while the spouse came from the other side of the car. I bet it happens just like that over 90% of the time. In fact, it's set up to naturally happen just like that.

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Ziemia(6a)

Watched the C-span video of the greetings. The few men who came with a partner all paused a bit before moving away fro the car. Except C-span cut away too soon to see the Trump's exit.

None of them yesterday (?) waited deliberately as Obama did.

LOL


PS: can someone find a video of Trump waiting for Melania to exit a car?

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Ann

Honestly, I think most wives or husbands of leaders are just fine coming around the car on their own and then simply merging with the group at the other side. I also think most spouses of the leaders who are waiting are also fine standing back and waiting while the two leaders first greet one another.

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Ann

"PS: can someone find a video of Trump waiting for Melania to exit a car?"

I think it would be hard to find very many of those types of videos at all (like that particular Obama one). I wonder if, even Obama, continued to do that beyond his inauguration day. He and Michelle must have arrived in a limo to be greeted by another leader hundreds of times in their 8 years. Do you have any memory of how he did it after day 1 of his presidency? My wild guess would be he started doing the more typical procedure, like you noticed on C-span today. I would think most wives would prefer it just play out as it happens naturally, since the leaders are the ones placed right next to each other and the spouses wouldn't want to appear as if they somehow need assistance getting to the other side of the car.

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chase_gw

Trump is a boor when it comes to how he treats Melania in public settings...can't imagine how it is in private . Defend him if you wish but loving ,caring, attentive husband he is not unless you think sleeping with a playboy bunny and porn star while your wife is newly delivered your son is dotting!

Way worse than not waiting to escort her but part of the same package. He is respectful and loving , or he is not.....you can make your judgement, I have made mine.

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Andie

May be what some find normal in their own lives. That's why they don't see what the rest of us see.

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maddie260

My prediction is that the Rs are going to be wandering in the desert for a LONG time post dt. No one is going to want to own this mess. There will be LOTS to answer for, and the public will demand answers. The current group of so-called eligibles are toast. They had a chance to speak up and they abdicated responsibility and duty.

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Ziemia(6a)

This is why C-Span didn't show it. They knew he would, again.

Maybe that's why #MelaniaLovesTrudeau

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Annie Deighnaugh

the appontment [sic] of TWO U.S. Supreme Court justices WITHOUT any agenda

I don't even know what this means...there was an *absolute* agenda primary of which is anti-choice. In the case of kavanaugh it was especially because he was such a strong supporter of not indicting a sitting president.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Trump has a habit of leaving his wives behind. He never wears his wedding ring, assuming he even has one? Doubtful he is allergic to gold.

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elvis

I must admit, DH did help me out of the vehicle (most of the time) when I was recovering from my broken leg.

The rest of the time, he seems to think that it's normal for an able-bodied female to be capable of exiting a vehicle without being handled.

Weird, I know.

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Annie Deighnaugh

It's not a matter of being 'handled' elvis, but a matter of courtesy and consideration and respect...a demonstration that one thinks of more than just himself...something we know trump is incapable of.

And I presume you aren't a head of state who's greeting other heads of state.

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Ann

The really weird thing about that picture of the Trumps and the two men almost touching hands as they approach one another, is I couldn't find another like it (awkwardly shot far enough away to show the woman exiting as she always would) because I highly suspect it was only shot like that to make a point that is absolutely not a point. But just like it became on this thread, it worked! That is precisely (and I mean precisely) how these greetings go each time and they never film it from a distance like that (which makes for a weird picture anyway showing the big mic apparatus or whatever it is above the vehicle). This particular picture was a tactic to make a point that isn't a point. The only thing this picture does is completely prove Trump's point about how the media treats him differently. Again, I'll bet this is precisely what the Obamas did hundreds of times in his terms and I bet what he did on his first day just might have been a one and only, or at least, very rarely repeated. When I saw the video (on Wallace's show) of the white haired man arriving and the Macrons waiting, I replayed it several times to watch it play out. The only single difference is the camera stayed in closer and the woman didn't enter the picture until she was nearly to the group, coming (alone) from the direction of the back of the car. The men had already finished their handshake, an embrace, and even some conversation. Then, the woman arrived and Macron's wife stepped forward, at which point the entire group engaged in a group greeting.

So, is it fake news, well no. But is it purposely filmed to make a perfectly normal situation look odd and to try to paint Trump in a bad way (when he was doing precisely, and I mean precisely what is customary and typical), you bet!

By the way, one of the very important things that made the Obama inauguration day greeting (where Barack went off to get/meet Michelle first) was G.W.'s super casual manner and vocal expression in that moment. Otherwise, that might have been slightly awkward IMO.

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Ann

Annie, Ziemia, and others that think it doesn't nearly always play out just like it did in this photo - look for pictures and videos to show situations like Obama on inauguration day. Good luck because I don't think you'll find them. This is just a guess but I wonder if you'll even find any pictures of Obama continuing to do the same thing. Again, good luck, because what the Trumps are doing is exactly how it works and the leader is always placed on that side of the car with the spouse on the other. Also, what the Macrons are doing is exactly what is also customary, with the leader approaching just as soon as the other leader has straightened up from his or her exit from the car.

I'm wondering if you'll find a single picture where they are showing the other side of the car the way they did in this picture. This picture was a stupid game meant to generate a reaction and an assumption that those viewing the picture would not think it through and recognize the filming tactic. And clearly, it worked as the media intended. Jeez, you have to question what the media publishes just as much as you have to question the accuracy of some of the random stuff tossed out as actual information on HT.

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Delilah66

“The only thing this picture does is completely prove Trump's point about how the media treats him differently.”

Why wouldn’t they treat him differently? Every change in administration is treated differently, particularly when parties change unexpectedly. Or, maybe, particularly when the administration lies repeatedly, threatens and retreats, and is embroiled in so many contretemps. In addition, we’ve never had a president with 3 ex-wives and KNOWN affairs.

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HU-219136540

Funny my husband of just one month short of 50 years always opens my car door for me unless I ask him not to(like it’s raining)

Never asked him to, never expected him to but he has since we first started dating.

Just raised well I guess.

Our son does the same for his wife.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Depending upon the circumstances I open our vehicle door for VgQn when we're approaching the car, but she lets herself out when we arrive at our destination. If we were visiting a head of state I'd surely open her door and take her hand to greet our host.

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roxsol

I usually drive.

My husband doesn't open the door for me, nor I for him. (He's usually got his nails dug into the dashboard, lol)

When we get out of the vehicle, we wait for each other and walk together, to wherever we are going.

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Ann

Vgkg, actually no, I think the guy formally waiting to open your door and the other guy formally waiting to open VgQn's door would be the ones who did it if you had received an invitation to visit a head of state:) I suppose you could walk around the car, ask him to step aside, ask VgQn to place herself back into the car (as she'd likely be out of the car already), close the car door that was already open, and then open it for her yourself. But, I'll take a wild guess that none of us will ever receive and invitation from a head of state where we will personally experience this formal situation.

In the video Ziemia posted, Boris was my favorite. He looks like a fun guy with a good sense of humor. It's amazing how planned and discussed those arrivals are, even down to the exact same and repeated turn to have the Macron's show each person or couple the view. Along with all those people paying attention to the timing and escorting the arrivals away (after the discussion of the view, lol) so the Macrons can return to their waiting spot and be standing in a formal way for the arrival of the next car.

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Ann

Our situation is a bit more like Vgkg and VgQn. If we're approaching the car toward the passenger door (and especially if it's an occasion where we are dressed up, which is rare), my husband will open my door and then walk around to the driver seat. When we arrive, we'll both get out on our own, unless the parking is valet parking, when there is typically someone waiting to open the passenger door. If we're going somewhere together on a typical day, like to a grandchild's soccer game, I just handle all my own door opening.

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haydayhayday

It's like the women here, just like football, have two different squads. When it's things like power and wages, send in the "WOMEN WANT EQUALITY!" team. When it comes to opening doors, we send in the "GOOD OLE DAYS" team.

I have NEVER had a woman come around and open a door for me.

I'm not holding my breath.

Hay

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Ann

I love your comment Hay! No kidding.

I will proudly admit I never moaned and groaned about not being treated fairly regarding wages and power, and instead, felt women often got more opportunities (at least with my major of computer science) as HR and managers looked to fill more positions with more women. I'm also perfectly comfortable opening my own door.

I think the only time I've opened a door for my husband is if he was physically unable because he'd just had a surgery or something. He doesn't hold his breath that I'll start opening his door either, lol:)

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Delilah66

Tusk got it right. He came to the back of the car and waited for his wife.

P.S. What are the lapel pins Macron is wearing?



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Stan Areted

Roxsol, you and Margo have the best sense of humor of anyone--I enjoy reading your clever and witty comments.

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chase_gw

I wish I could find a clip of Abe arriving......my recollection was I thought him to be very attentive to his wife but it was a flleeting thought and had zero to do with Trump as it was before he arrived.

One thing I did notice was that the reception of Trudeau was much, much warmer than that of Trump.....and Melania, a Europen, was full lip on with Trudeau when a double kiss to the cheek is the norm. Who can blame her ?

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roxsol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yM-A13n6lzI

Chase, this is Abe arriving. He makes sure his wife is out of the car before greeting Macron.

I agree with you about Trudeau. Macron and Trudeau greet each other like old friends and always seem, to me, like they are enjoying a joke between themselves.

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Delilah66

OK I had to find out what all the Melania and Trudeau talk was about. YOWZA!

Hope the moderator doesn’t think the photo is too hot!



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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Roxsol, thank you for the link.


I hadn't realized that Italian PM Conte was attending the G7 since he had recently resigned. Evidently he's still acting as PM until President Mattarella makes a decision how to resolve the political situation.


I don't like Conte's politics, but he's in the boyish charm group along with Macron and Trudeau.

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elvis

Car doors: we both know how to operate the car doors, and do so for ourselves, unless someone's on crutches. Entrance door at the destination: whoever reaches the door first opens it to let the other one pass. If we get there together, we just kind of look at each other and laugh. Then he opens it. Or I do. What's the big deal?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

When you’re on the world stage, there’s protocol, observing norms for hosts and guests, plus common courtesy and manners.


G7, affairs of state, etc. are a far cry from a long-married couple driving to buy groceries, or eat at a chain restauran.

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roxsol

“.....plus common courtesy and manners.”

Absolutely. When these world leaders and their partners arrive at these events, they should attempt to meet and greet their hosts together. They should at least ensure their partner is out of the vehicle before shaking hands and conversing with their hosts.

I know that sometimes it can be awkward getting everyone in the right place at the right time but some attempt should be made. For a man or a woman to just climb out of the vehicle and ignore their partner, is just poor manners.

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chase_gw

Thanks Roxsol, I tried but couldn't find a clip but it was at the back of mind that I recalled actually thinking at the time that he was very attentive to her being sure she was out and waiting for her. Trump just charged up to Macron. If . it was a one off no biggie but he constantly treats Melania poorly in my view. let's face it he has ZERO social graces.

I also think there is a big difference between getting out of the car at the grocery store, or a restaurant and getting out of the car at a world event when meeting fellow world leaders and knowing the cameras are rolling!!!

I was mistaken about the Melania Trudeau kiss, it was the two cheek European style......looks so elegant !

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HU9999

I just love how some ignore the obvious.

Trump exits the car and immediately walks away to shake hands, or whatever. He acts like Melania doesn't exist.

Of course there is someone that opens the door for the spouse. The point is he should wait for and greet her before moving on to the introductions/greetings.

He's a boar and I don't know why people just cannot admit it. Like his politics, hate his manner. Is that so hard? Will the Trump police show up at your door?

And it has nothing to do with the sex of the spouse. The same - waiting for their spouse - is expected of any leader, man or woman. But when all you have is distractions, that's all you have.

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Stan Areted

All this talk about car doors and judgments is naval gazing worthy of a tardigrade!

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Sleeping Giant

"What about after 2024?"



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Ziemia(6a)

Stan - that whole line of thought (ref spouse respect) was started by a TrumpFan.

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lurker111

I thought the feminist movement made it an insult to open a door for a woman.

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Stan Areted

Right, lurker 111? It is so confusing--I guess the requirements are fluid, depending on the whims of women.

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chase_gw

I don't think the opening of the door is particularly germane to the discussion. No one should expect Trump to walk around the car and open the door. In fact it is for security reasons the President, PM exit on that side. Walking around the car provides too much exposure.

However, it is entirely reasonable, polite , affectionate and respectful to wait for your spouse and approach your guests together as Abe did.

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Ann

Wonder how the Queen does it when she's with her spouse? I'll see if I can locate any examples.

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Ann

What, is he required to scoot himself over? I think this is a wedding arrival but he better hurry along and catch her, lol.



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chase_gw

By protocol Philip is required to walk behind the Queen.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-does-prince-philip-walk-behind-queen.html/

edited to add link

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Ann

"Stan - that whole line of thought (ref spouse respect) was started by a TrumpFan."

Ziemia, it was? Cool, will Marquest be another Trump vote? I don't know about that, she doesn't sound like she's very likely to help put Trump and "his latest purchased immigrant" in the White House in Jan 2021. But, she was the one who started the "spouse respect" conversation direction.

"Yes we really should not start remembering inauguration day! Oh lets......

tRump bounced out of the car and ran up the steps leaving his latest purchased immigrant to get up the steps alone.

Michelle asking Obama to go to the car and help Melania up the step and Michelle reaching out to help her the rest of the way up the steps.

You know why you never saw that before? All husbands on inauguration day got out of the car, waited for their wife, took her arm and walked up the steps together."

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Ziemia(6a)

#1 It wasn't started on this thread.

#2 The broader topic at times is 'official WH greetings'

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HU9999

I see that some are still ignoring the actual point and deflecting to car door opening. I refer you to my post from Tuesday at 6:59am if one is intersted in the actual point. Won't hold my breath for a light bulb moment, though.

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Ann

""Stan - that whole line of thought (ref spouse respect) was started by a TrumpFan."

"#1 It wasn't started on this thread."

Ziemia, okay, and where, exactly, was it started and by which "TrumpFan"?

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Delilah66

"He acts like Melania doesn't exist."

[She doesn't] care. Do u?

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margaux

To get back to the topic, if Niki Haley is elected president in 2024, should she wait in the car for her husband to come around and open her door? :D

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