Epstein found dead in cell

Kathy

Found dead in his cell this morning. That will keep his secrets safe.

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Carro

Arkanicided.

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margaux

What does Arkanicided mean?

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mrskjun(9)

Did anyone ever believe this guy would go to trial?

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pippabean_5b

margaux - Arkansas + (homi)-cide

An rwingers silly "big" word which they then of course promptly misspell. It's supposed to be Arkancide, which was thought by them to be ever so witty and clever.

If it's not "but Obama, but Obama", it's: "but Clinton, but Clinton...."


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Carro

The Clinton streak continues. Bill is smoking a big, fat stogie right about now.

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foodonastump

Trump has broken you.

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Camille

How does one commit suicide while on suicide watch?

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Carro

On suicide watch for 2 weeks and lives. Transferred to another facility and is dead within hours.

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foodonastump

Camille - That’s a good question. But at this point, absent evidence beyond conspiracy theory, insinuation that either president (or candidate) is responsible, is disgusting.

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lurker111

Look for him in Paraguay.

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Pidge_

No excuse for this event. Epstein was supposedly on suicide watch but there certainly wasn't much oversight. This "suicide" has a funny smell.

And yes, I did believe that Epstein would be brought to trial. Unfortunately, the women he assaulted/raped/abused will have a harder time getting their day in court. Rich white men in power will stay there, despite their more perverse proclivities.


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Chi

I wonder how much help he received with his suicide.

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Carro

Lol we’ll remember that when you blame Trump.

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althea_gw

Oh what a shame. And right after a huge trove of legal documents were released yesterday.

"Thousands of pages of documents related to convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's trafficking of young girls were released Friday, opening the floodgates on one of the biggest scandals of 2019.

"Excellent," tweeted producer Andy Lassner. "Shine that light as bright as possible on all of it."

The documents (pdf) (pdf) (pdf), which were still being published at press time, detail years of abuse from Epstein and an alleged wide-ranging conspiracy spanning multiple countries and state, involving powerful people around the globe."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/08/09/epstein-documents-released-revealing-depths-convicted-pedophiles-alleged-sex

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margaux

Ugh. Another RW conspiracy theory.

Maybe it'll take their minds off AOC for a little while.

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Kathy

A man that looked like Epstein was transported to hospital. Can we believe anything this admin says? It’s terrible we cannot trust them. Cardiac arrest. Death by hanging. I’m sorry. I have a lot of doubts about the whole thing.

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Carro

Epstein wasn’t alone—there’s still a chance that justice will be served,

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pippabean_5b

Frantic postings say it all. Let's make this about Clinton, but we all know who had the most to fear from Epstein singing.

Fun to watch the Trumpsters trying to make this about Clinton.

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Carro

Kathy—that’s conspiracist!

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lurker111

Sp predictable that the left would try to spin this on Trump. TDS in full swing.

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adoptedbyhounds

"This "suicide" has a funny smell."

I agree, Pidge.

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Kathy

Carro, not conspiracist. I just don’t trust anyone in the Trump administration to pull rank. Too many people wanted him dead. Day after a lot of papers were released about him. I can certainly see where he would kill himself before he would testify. No matter what he would spend his last days in jail.

Maybe I am just in a state of disbelief because he was on suicide watch.

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chase_gw

The criminal action is over but the civil sits will proceed. I'm sure there a lot of big names breathing a sigh of relief.

Interesting that he did this the night the documents from Florida were unsealed.

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Camille

You know when a trump supporter deflects to Clinton or Obama they have reason to worry about trump.

And the response to this thread was pretty darn quick.

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Kathy

Ask yourself who had the most to gain by his death and who had the most to lose with his testimony?

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Chi

I think it could have been anyone. He had a lot of dirt on a lot of people and this is exactly what I thought would happen. Suicide is a little too convenient for something this high profile. I wonder if there are cameras.

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margaux

Why was he on suicide watch? Had he made a prior attempt? I remember he was injured a few weeks ago.

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Kathy

Surely this will be investigated by the DOJ? 24 hr suicide watch and he’s dead? Incompetence.

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Delilah66

"Frantic postings say it all. Let's make this about Clinton, but we all know who had the most to fear from Epstein singing."

Hallelujah may be the song playing in someone's head, but it won't be Clinton's.

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Delilah66

I can't blame the DOJ. They have the best personnel Barr none.

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leona_2008

May this be the biggest news of this weekend.

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Joaniepoanie

Investigated by Barr’s DOJ? I doubt it. My guess it will all just conveniently go away.


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Chi

I hope somehow the truth will still come out. Anyone who molested children needs to be punished. Anyone.

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Kathy

I want to know if there were drugs in his system.I agree Chi, I hope this doesn’t end with his death. Too many are guilty with him. What about Maxwell. She’s still walking free.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

I have been expecting this suicide. Ironic it comes right after confirmation Prince Andrew groped a child sex slave of Epstein's in London. There are enough top tier political names in this human trafficking/sex slavery ring to make it thoroughly nonpartisan. Children were enslaved and raped. Forget about politics. Be human.

Corrected: The prince is accused of groping, not raping.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

This must be the action of the new & improved deep state now that trump has all of his toadies in place to control the narrative, right trumpsters?

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Rina

Carro -- haven't read the intervening comments, but the chances of my blaming anyone are slim to nothing. If it's suicide, it's suicide. If it's not, then I hope an investigation proves what happened and who was responsible. What business of mine would it be to blame anyone?

ETA: And this is no laughing matter.

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queenmargo

I think a guy who did this for years and then had the goods on so many people would not commit suicide. That is just my opinion. Now, who may have had a hand in this? I am sure the list is looooooong of suspects.

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queenmargo

Kathy- since we are playing conspiracies... How about someone left leaning that would like it to appear that it was Trump with all the allegations already by the comments that it must be Trump? Now, really that would not surprise me one bit anymore.

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Kathy

I also think if Epstein wanted to die, he would have many willing to help.

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queenmargo

I also think if Epstein wanted to die, he would have many willing to help.

I am surprised you did not say it must be Putin to help Trump lol lol

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adoptedbyhounds

"I wonder if there are cameras."

Such a great question, Chi! One would certainly expect cameras in any cell assigned to a person on suicide watch!!

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Rina

Zalco, just for accuracy's sake, I think the statement you refer to says that Prince Andrew molested her by putting his hand on her breast, not that he raped her. Heck, what a world.

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althea_gw

"Forget about politics. Be human."

Well said Zalco.

The network of those with an interest in his testimony is vast. Besides the politicians, Slashdot has this on his associate this morning:

GMWatch said:


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Cookie8

I guess we wait and see what happens with Ghislaine Maxwell now. She is well informed and knew exactly of what went on and who was there.

I don't believe it was suicide...at all.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Rina, thank you for the correction. I fixed my statement.

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ohiomom

Children were enslaved and raped. Forget about politics. Be human

Needed repeating. These young girls were someone's daughters.


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blfenton

I hope it was suicide and nothing more. What an unfortunate end to a life that started with so much promise, a brilliant mind and talented musician.

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Cookie8

"I hope it was suicide and nothing more. What an unfortunate end to a life that started with so much promise, a brilliant mind and talented musician."

Nope. He was a sick and disgusting man who groomed girls for his benefit.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

At this rate, HT will become known as a conspiracy site!

Kate

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catkinZ8a

Aren't there 24/7 cameras on inmates that are on SW?

Aren't there trained staff on duty 24/7 to watch those that are on SW?

Fishy.

What does the word suicide mean in the phrase suicide WATCH? Who was watching? Did they fall asleep? Did the camera malfunction? Was there camera surveillance? Who was he about to implicate? This is very questionable. Committing suicide on suicide watch doesn't happen. Guiliani

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blfenton

The end of his life didn't happen today, the end of his life happened decades ago. A life that did start with so much promise.

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catkinZ8a

Unsubstantiated rumor: JE made secret videos which he used to blackmail people.

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Delilah66

"How about someone left leaning that would like it to appear that it was Trump with all the allegations already by the comments that it must be Trump? "

Let's make it even more convoluted:

Putin has the pee tape. Epstein procured for Putin. Donnie got jealous that Epstein had more "in" with Putin. Donnie was certain Putin was going to give the pee tape to Epstein's lawyers, as was Clinton. Epstein's guards are all Republicans; therefore, we know they are crooked and desperate to get Donnie re-elected. The guards used their secret Republican wiles to get Clinton visitation with Epstein [corrected]. Clinton did it.

"But, but, but - OBAMA!"

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Delilah66

"Aren't there trained staff on duty 24/7 to watch those that are on SW?

Fishy."

Barr

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Carro

Sometimes “it takes a village “ to commit suicide.

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dandyfopp

Totally expected.

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Carro


margievank

“1 hour ago

I also think if Epstein wanted to die, he would have many willing to help.

I am surprised you did not say it must be Putin to help Trump lol lol

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MSM already on it...Schmo Scarborough.

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Andie

Silenced by the Trump mob.

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dandyfopp

All that need happen is for Jeff to be moved from suicide watch and let nature take its course. You can define nature, it may have been Jeff's desire, or not.

Either way, lots of sighs of relief this morning to be sure.

What serendipity, right?

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roxanna7

Repeat: 'cui bono ?'.

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margaritadina

''

catkinZ8a

Unsubstantiated rumor: JE made secret videos which he used to blackmail people.

''

Unsubstantiated rumor: he was an FBI informant....

This one is not a rumor - photos of prince Andrew with a very young girl were published days ago, they all over the web.


Actually, I expected JE to go on trial, alive and well....

I thought the suicide watch procedures protocol would be intensified after he tried to commit suicide couple of weeks ago....The story feels dark and scary...

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I'm not surprised to see Bill Richardson's name.

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chase_gw

Would not surprise me if he paid someone to look the other way . The thought of life in prison for a man like Epstein would be unbearable.

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catkinZ8a

Daughter of ex-FBI director Comey is prosecutor in Epstein case: report

By Chris Perez

July 7, 2019


Maurene Comey, daughter of fired FBI Director James Comey, is reportedly one of the prosecutors in the Jeffrey Epstein case.

A source confirmed her involvement to CNN on Sunday.

Maurene Comey has been serving as an assistant US attorney in the Southern District of New York since 2015. Her father, who was ousted from the FBI two years ago by President Trump, held the same position between 1987 and 1993.

Comey has worked on a number of cases involving obstruction of justice, racketeering and embezzlement.

Legal experts told Law&Crime that Epstein — who is charged in a massive new underage sex trafficking case — could also face money laundering, public corruption and other tax-related charges on account of the Southern District of New York’s Public Corruption Unit reportedly being involved in the case.

“Who knows?” said trial analyst Gene Rossi. “The sky’s the limit.”


Maureen Comey with her Mother at the pink hat march.



https://nypost.com/2019/07/07/daughter-of-ex-fbi-director-comey-is-prosecutor-in-epstein-case-report/


https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/06/us/jeffrey-epstein-arrest-sex-trafficking-indictment/index.html

Mueller was head of the FBI during the Epstein case.

Was Epstein was an informant under FBI Director Robert Mueller?


FBI: Pedophile Jeffrey Epstein was Informant for Mueller’s FBI

Published

1 year ago

on

May 24, 2018

By

Peter D'Abrosca

Documents released by the FBI pertaining to Clinton-connected pedophile Jeffrey Epstein show that the known child predator had a professional relationship with then-FBI Director Robert S. Mueller.

“Epstein has also provided information to the FBI as agreed upon,” says one of the court documents. “Case agent advised that no federal prosecution will occur in this matter as long as Epstein continues to uphold his agreement with the state of Florida.

Twitter sleuth @techno_fog mined this from the released FBI files:


Today’s release shows that Epstein clearly cut a deal with Mueller’s FBI to avoid prosecution, though it is unclear from the heavily-redacted documents what crime he was charged with.

Mueller has been appointed Special Counsel to investigate alleged collusion between the Donald Trump presidential campaign and the Russian government. The investigation is now well into its second year.



https://bigleaguepolitics.com/fbi-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-was-informant-for-muellers-fbi/


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margaritadina

''

Andie

Silenced by the Trump mob.

''

Witnesses are alive. JE crimes investigation doesn't end with his death.



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catkinZ8a

Agree!

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catkinZ8a

Did Epstein help the then FBI (director Mueller) blackmail public officials? Did the FBI use Epstein and Epstein use the then USDOJ for protection?



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catkinZ8a

FBI AND IG investigations opened into the 'death' of JE..

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adoptedbyhounds

"I'm not surprised to see Bill Richardson's name."

Why do you say that, Nancy?

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Delilah66

Rina, I understand!

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Rina

I agree with Chase. I can't imagine Epstein looking at life in prison as even possible. However, we don't know yet, and we may never know for sure. I agree that nobody on suicide watch should ever have the opportunity to commit suicide, so something went very, very wrong.

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Kathy

Who thinks we will ever know the truth? Looking back to Kennedy, I have great doubts. Too many rich and powerful people are sitting more comfortably today. A lot of secrets died with him. I hope there will be some justice come from examining his records and documents.

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blue bayou

Something very, VERY fishy here.

This guy was holding on to too many secrets from the lifestyles of the rich n' perverted. This story definitely has LEGS!

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margaux

If the victims have given statements, don't you have your truth? The truth doesn't die with Epstein.

You choose whether to believe them or not. Epstein wasn't going to corroborate their statements, if that's the truth you wanted. He's never implicated anyone so why would he at trial?

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catkinZ8a



"Dozens of current and former prosecutors say it’s odd that the MCC declared Jeffrey Epstein’s death a suicide so quickly: “Why so quick to declare it a suicide? Why not just say he's dead, appears to be by hanging, we're investigating."

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Rina

Too many people swam in Epstein's cess pool to point fingers at any one person, if this was engineered from outside. I do believe and hope there is a lot of evidence still to come that will sift the guilty from the (relatively) innocent. I know it is easy in those circles to end up at a party, say, that you wish you had never attended, to commit an indiscretion that was not strictly what you might have wanted to do in other circumstances. But some were in it up to their necks.

Nevertheless, as I said, I think suicide was entirely likely.

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blue bayou

I am agnostic on the death penalty, but this case surely makes it seem that DEATH is an EASY OUT. I am sure that most all of his victims would have preferred to see him go through trial and then spend years behind bars.

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catkinZ8a


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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

All I know is this saga would make several really good movies.

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chase_gw

.....and it will...but maybe not good

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elvis

HU-390342033

Does anyone believe this was suicide? Way to convenient for the i'djt and company

Whatever else they are, the Clintons are not idiots. Arkancided.

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chijim

Accidental death by auto-eroticism is also another possibility.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Dead men tell no tales, right?

And yes, I feel this will thwart justice being served. Hubby believes he was connected to Mossad, for whatever that's worth.

And what's that random looking photo supposed to be about?

And I wonder what's going to happen to his extensive estate?

Anybody else see the reporting recently about his 'eugenics' compound and his plan to create superhumans with his DNA?

Sorry if these things have been mentioned, I skipped down to comment.

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Carro

NBC4 reports sources say Epstein was NOT on suicide watch this morning.

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blue bayou

He was on suicide watch, he was not on suicide watch..., why are such BASIC facts still in dispute now?! Sounds like they are still planning a cover story..., to still be on suicide watch and have this happen leaves lots of 'splaining to do. So, why taken off suicide watch? Somethin' definitely not kosher here..., and it aint't the lox!

PS., Carol, that picture above is the from the closing scene of Silence of the Lambs..., when Hannibal Lector walks off to his next port of call to render his own version of justice.

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Embothrium(Sunset Climate Zone 5, USDA Hardiness Zone 8)

I think the picture is escaped and at large Hannibal Lector walking away after telephoning Clarice (I think) at the end of Silence of the Lambs.

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ubro(2a)

Let us hope this does not end with his death. He was a witness to many crimes as well as a criminal himself. As the prime witness to high profile men they are now hoping their criminal acts are being buried with him.

Everyone, right , left, and centre who was involved in this should be held accountable. If it is Trump, so be it, Clinton, so be it , Prince Andrew, so be it. To defend a person because of political affiliation is not something I would expect any person to do.

ETA,Whatever else they are, the Clintons are not idiots. Arkancided.

It is just silly IMO to start fake accusations about certain people you think silenced him, really this is a non partisan issue until it is proven to not be.

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blue bayou

"To defend a person because of political affiliation is not something I would expect any person to do."

Are you familiar with our dark master's polical base in Amerikkka?!

Donnie Rump's line about shooting someone in the street and not being held culpable is something they are proud of.

Welcome to the USSA!

Oy, Canada!

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Cookie8

"Would not surprise me if he paid someone to look the other way . The thought of life in prison for a man like Epstein would be unbearable."

It also wouldn't surprise if he were given "convenient" means to end his life "peacefully".

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maifleur01

If I was one of the people that were willing to testify I would have to think really hard about it. Most would not fearing for their own safety. If he actually did commit suicide it will never really be proven unless a camera saw him doing it. Anyone that would testify will do it knowing that they too could easily have an accident or commit suicide. Living where I do with the history in this area and knowing the connections Epstein and others have it would take someone that is willing to die not to withdraw from the civil lawsuit.

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blue bayou

Assume this means the cat is now guarding the canary?

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HU9999

More proof of illogical thinking and bias -

100% willing to believe Clinton was involved.

0% willing to believe Trump was involved.

No evidence (yet) to implicate either, but they know! Because!

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pippabean_5b

Or, he decided that this time around he wasn't gonna get off, and so he exited.

He probably did receive somebody's help. Not so easy to commit suicide in an empty jail cell.

None of us knows. Why don't we all wait with conclusions until it has been investigated.

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judeNY_gw

He was off suicide watch. For those who are not fact adverse see the NYT.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

How hard would it be to tear up a shirt or pants and tie a slipknot?

And @ HU9999 - I never presume people actually believe all the nonsensical things they post. I consider much of it to be attempts at argument using logical fallacies - consciously or not.

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Pippa

For a fastidious man , he surely looked rough in recent photos. He couldn’t face the rest of his life in prison so he paid someone to look away. I’ll bet trump is happy and relieved.

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Andie

Trump's tweets/retweets have begun.

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foodonastump

Yep. Disgusting man.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Coming to the realization that he was not going to get out on bail or house arrest or any permutation but was going to have to stay in jail until his trial when ever that was going to be, could be years, and his chances of getting off with a sweetheart deal this time was poor indeed, well what else are you going to do. He chickened out once? Makes sense. Still we have to wait for an investigation and who is ever going to believe what they find out.

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blue bayou

So, listening to the news and they jus' casually drop the news that he HAD A CELLMATE at the time. How does this make any sense?!

PS., "How hard would it be to tear up a shirt or pants and tie a slipknot?"

HAD he still been on suicide watch, this scenario is taken into consideration with any clothing issued along with a lot of other possibilities for suicide risk.



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how2girl

Carro

6 hours ago

NBC4 reports sources say Epstein was NOT on suicide watch this morning.

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Oh Carro

Of course he wasn’t, someone who is already “gone” would not require any watching, suicide watch or otherwise, unless we’re looking at an “invasion of the body snatchers” scenario. Watch this space.

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Andie



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Carro

The cellmate makes no sense. This stinks to high heaven.

Epstein should have been monitored at all times, with eyeballs and surveillance. What happened should be clear.

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Kathy

It’s on Barr. He is in charge of the Federal system. Now he can investigate why this happened.

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Andie

Trump retweets unsubstantiated claim about Jeffrey Epstein’s death disregarding statements from his own Justice Department.

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catkinZ8a

Will Ghislaine Maxwell have 24/7 protection?

When will the next tragedy take place to remove Epstein from the news cycle--3--2--1...?

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margaritadina

''

elvis

HU-390342033

Does anyone believe this was suicide? Way to convenient for the i'djt and company
Whatever else they are, the Clintons are not idiots. Arkancided.

''

I imagine MI6 was not too happy about prince Andrew's involvement either...

--------

I was thinking about JE and his ...hobbies. Pedophilia and trafficking of minors are such disgusting crimes that everyone wants these people dead. They don't survive in a general prison popularization, guards are deaf to their pleas for help - just recently a pedo was drowned in a toilet by his cellmate...they are rightfully badly abused and humiliated.

It's possible that prison guards reached for popcorn watching on camera JE hanging himself or been ''suicided''.

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Kathy

Can you believe this? It’s stranger than fiction.

Donald Barr wrote a book called Space Relations about sex slavery.

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Kathy

Bill Barr could have secured Epstein. He had the power and the responsibility. Why didn’t he?

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ohiomom

Bill Clinton: The former president visited Epstein’s private island while Giuffre was there, she claims in one of her depositions. Giuffre stated that Epstein held a dinner for Clinton on the island. (In a statement previously made to Forbes, Clinton denied ever visiting Epstein’s private island.)

President Trump: According to newly unsealed flight logs, Trump flew on Epstein’s private jet in 1997. The White House has not yet commented on the new information.

Key background: Epstein has been under scrutiny since a 2007 federal sex crimes indictment, alleging he sexually abused dozens of underage girls, resulted in a lenient Florida plea deal. The Miami Herald’s 2018 investigative series detailed how a federal prosecutor, Alexander Acosta, helped broker the plea deal. The agreement granted Epstein and his anonymous coconspirators immunity and sealed all documents. Epstein served 13 months in a Florida jail after conviction on a prostitution charge and registered as a sex offender. After his release from county jail, Epstein went free until his July 6 arrest by federal prosecutors, when he was charged with sex trafficking and sex conspiracy. He pleaded not guilty and was denied bail. Epstein’s lawyers have not responded to requests for comment." (SOURCE: Forbes.com)

.......so this pedophile and his best buds were granted immunity and all the documents were sealed ??

People are saying Epstein hooked up the Don with a model (^_^) in the late 90's.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Oh, to know the secrets he took with him...and his ability to name names. I'm sure whatever black books or records he kept will disappear as well...

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Kathy

This is a fail of this administration. Trump and Barr had all the power. If it was all about Clinton, do you think for one minute Epstein would be dead?

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Carro

Someone's been gulping down Joy Reid's big ol' pitcher of crazy!

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Carro

MSNBC today--no lie--has gone from blaming Russia to blaming Barr.

They are a JOKE!!

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ohiomom

Kathy good point, if Epstein was able to take down Clinton this administration would have had him wrapped in soft cotton wool in a private suite. (^_^)

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Carro

Logicalish.

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Carro

Sooooooooooo...MSNBCTDS is abandoning the Russia-killed-Epstein narrative?

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Kathy

Trump/Barr should have secured Epstein. They blew it. Either they are incompetent or they left the door open.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

He was associated with Mossad and others in that circle.

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Kathy

There are all sorts of rumors. His death was faked. He underwrote Mar-aLago. Trump visited him in 2017. He passed money for MBS.

Whatever it is, it was allowed to happen. There is no excuse.

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Prim Rose


Carro

Sooooooooooo...MSNBCTDS is abandoning the Russia-killed-Epstein narrative?

Like


Do your own homework.

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blue bayou

Lots of people had reasons to see him dead.

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Prim Rose

He had every reason to want to end his life and probably little to remain alive. He wasn't on suicide watch and that will be the thing that Barr needs to look at. It doesn't make sense that he was taken off suicide watch.

It does make perfect sense that he wanted to end his life.

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Kathy

Trump was the one pushing the Russian narrative.

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Jenn "My kingdom for a nap!" Mom(5)

He had two different cellmates, the first was a former cop charged with murder, the second one they didn't give details on...but at the time of his death he was in a 'special custody' unit where the housing is designed to hold one inmate per cell (usually they put people who are either too dangerous to other inmates in these special units, as well as those who are at risk of being harmed by other inmates - whether it's a cellmate or in shared spaces like hallways and common areas.)...

He *was* on suicide watch, but for whatever reason the facility psychiatrist deemed him no longer a suicide risk (of course it could just be that another inmate was *more* of a suicide risk and they lack sufficient 'suicide watch cells' at the location. A suicide watch cell is specially designed, but the regulations only stipulate that a jail must have one or more of these things, so it's feasible that any given location would have *one* and only one. :P)

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Kathy

It was stated he was taken off suicide watch 12 days ago.

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elvis

pippabean_5b

Carro:

"MSNBC today--no lie--has gone from blaming Russia to blaming Barr.

They are a JOKE!!"

Why all that drama and histrionics carro? You're a regular Fox watcher, right? Day in, day out, they are a total joke. Yet, we don't see you posting comment after comment in all caps and studded with multiple exclamation points. about the inanities you listen to on Faux "news".

My goodness carro, what gives?

Which part of that ^^^ is Carro and which part is "pippabean"?

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margaritadina

''

Kathy

This
is a fail of this administration. Trump and Barr had all the power. If
it was all about Clinton, do you think for one minute Epstein would be
dead?

''

It's not all about Clinton. Many, many domestic and foreign man of power are involved. It's not just American, it's an international scandal.


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bob_cville

> It's not just American, it's an international scandal.

Epstein's actions and those of "many domestic and foreign men of power" who participated in depraved or criminal acts with Epstein does constitute an international scandal.

The fact that he was able to kill himself or was killed while in custody thereby preventing him from being able to give evidence against those "many domestic and foreign men of power" is entirely an American scandal. Ultimately rising up to the very top. In such a high profile case, especially after Epstein was mysteriously injured and placed on suicide watch, either Barr didn't realize that there was a high likelihood that Epstein would kill himself or be killed, in which case Barr is imbecile; or Bar wasn't able to figure out how to ensure that wouldn't happen, in which case Barr is incompetent, or Barr wanted it to happen or was ordered to do nothing, in which case he is complicit.

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how2girl

Was the facility anywhere near 5th Ave?. It’s at 125 White Ave. (how Freudian). Epstein lived on 5th apparently.

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Kathy

Margarita

I know it isn’t only about Clinton. I believe Clinton is the least of it. Someone is trying to make it sound as if Clinton had him killed.

Barr is either incompetent or complicit.

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chase_gw

The Barr connection is a bit of a stretch in my view. No matter how high profile the prisoner the AG does not oversee his personal safety. He would have every reason to leave that to the prison authorities. As a matter of fact I would think it unusual if he did intervene personally.......and I'm no fan of Barr.

I still think that he killed himself and at the most might have paid somebody to look the other way.

Having said that, heads should roll . There is no way that a prisoner of his importance in a huge international scandal should have been able to kill himself while in federal custody.

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pippabean_5b

elvis - Really, you could not figure this out? It's obvious from the text. And, ever heard of parentheses?

Fixed the italics for you.


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Kathy

Barr is in charge of Federal prisons. I do think he had authority to make sure Epstein is safe. It wouldn’t be the first time he has intervened in cases recently in NY. Knowing the importance of his testimony and the high profile that prison should have been one of his priorities, imho, especially after the episode a few weeks ago.

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Cookie8

"Trump/Barr should have secured Epstein. They blew it. Either they are incompetent or they left the door open."

From the get go, the justice system failed the victims in this matter and provided the benefit to the elites. In 2008, he barely got a finger slap and records were sealed to protect those involved and now we have this and I can only assume the outcome will be similar. It's a failed system for those without means and "importance". Gross.

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how2girl

Ghislaine Maxwell - what’s to become of her. Why isn’t she behind bars for her role as the procurer/facilitator. She’d have all of the info they need to get to the bottom of this sordid immoral criminal cabal.

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ohiomom

So 'maybe' someone/s got a big pay day for offing the pedophile. But his death does not stop the investigation, in fact according to one story I read it will make it easier. Just think the pedophile can no longer file objections to searches of his properties, computers, records etal.

Maybe the pedophile saw his friends in high places were going to let him hang out to dry and he figured he was in for lamb, might as well go for the sheep. Just a theory.

Wexner gave him a NYMansion for $0 ... really ?? Wex is doing the two step back step at the moment.




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Camille

"I still think that he killed himself and at the most might have paid somebody to look the other way."

Or maybe someone else was paid to look the other way while the Epstein problem was taken care of.

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ohiomom

Ghislaine Maxwell - what’s to become of her. Why isn’t she behind bars for her role as the procurer/facilitator. She’d have all of the info they need to get to the bottom of this sordid immoral criminal cabal.

Maybe the (alleged) Madam is singing for the Feds.

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lurker111

Everyone knew this would happen. Everyone knows who the prime suspects are.

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Joaniepoanie

Trump/Barr secure Epstein? Neither one had any incentive to keep Epstein safe. We’ll probably never know the truth, especially with the “coverup general” in charge.

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pippabean_5b

lurker has got it right. For once he is spot on:

Everybody knows who's in charge and control: Trump and his new fixer, Barr.

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queenmargo

Hillary has been known to go to great lengths to save her man.

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lurker111

lurker has got it right.

As always.

Barr did let Comey off the hook. I don't trust him.

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Kathy

Who knows about Barr? His dad wrote a book about sex slaves.

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queenmargo

Did you read it ?

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bob_cville

> The Barr connection is a bit of a stretch in my view. No matter how high
profile the prisoner the AG does not oversee his personal safety. He
would have every reason to leave that to the prison authorities. As a
matter of fact I would think it unusual if he did intervene
personally.......and I'm no fan of Barr.

It would have been unusual for him to have intervened, but this is not a usual case. I stand by my assertion that either Barr didn't understand the importance of this case and the likelihood or something like this happening, or he wasn't able to formulate and execute a plan to prevent it from happening, or he is perfectly fine with it happening. Those really are the only three (broad) possibilities. meaning he's an imbecile or he's incompetent, or he's complicit.

When he gives an official response to this I wonder which of these three possibilities he'll go with. I expect he'll try to fob off the blame on some lower level person or group outside of his direct control saying he trusted and believed the assurances made by that group that Epstein would be safe. However again it will come back to either he didn't realize that the usual ordinary procedures were insufficient in this extraordinary case (imbecile) or he wasn't able to force sufficient measures to be put in place (incompetent) or C

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chase_gw

I agree he is ultimately accountable.

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lurker111

Very amusing.

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chase_gw

I still hold my opinion that Barr being complicit in this is a bit of a stretch BUT as AG he is absolutely accountable for the actions of his DOJ. There is no disputing that.

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bob_cville

> I still hold my opinion that Barr being complicit in this is a bit of a stretch

I'm not saying complicit in the original acts of Epstein and the aforementioned "many domestic and foreign men of power" rather that unless he is an imbecile or incompetent, he is complicit in the effort to ensure that Epstein didn't testify.

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chase_gw

The farthest I could go is incompetent. Perhaps he should have involved himself more directly in the arrangements for Epstein's safety given the nature of the case .

None the less, he is absolutely accountable........problem is there is nobody in a position to hold him accountable. That should scare the heck out of all Americans.

ETA I meant complicit in Epstein's death, not his underlying crimes and original acts.

Edited

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Kathy

problem is there is nobody in a poaition to hold him accountable. That should scare the heck out of all Americans.

Chase, I agree, it should scare every law abiding American. We are slowly losing our basis of Democracy. The same forces that allowed Epstein to go free the first time have allowed him to disappear this time, whether by death or any other theory out there.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

In re: Barr, I think those in positions of responsibility and power who direct their loyalty toward cronies and personal ideology, rather than demonstrating integrity, adherence to rules and strong ethics, are also demonstrating that they are not of the highest intelligence.

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patriciae_gw(07)

As I said elsewhere Trumps connections to Epstein are deeper than any the Clintons have and yet I don't believe Trump had the guy killed. I think that he took his own life because that is the Ocram's Razor approach. That he was only too likely to do this is obvious but I also don't believe that the guards would necessarily be allowed to anticipate that. These places have rules and Epstein would and could demand he be treated like any other prisoner if it suited his purpose. All he had to do was convince them he was fine. He had very good lawyers. I have heard he was spending his days with his lawyers instead of having to hang with the rest of the prison population. Consulting expensively. How long can you keep that up? Reality is a -----.

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Kathy

Was Epstein spending time so much time with his lawyers because he was afraid to be in his cell, hated being in his cell, or was trying to avoid the inevitable? Surely he knows what happens to rats in the group he was in?

Was he telling the lawyer as much as he could before he dies? It all is so mysterious.

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elvis

chase wrote: ...None the less, he is absolutely accountable........problem is there is nobody in a position to hold him accountable. That should scare the heck out of all Americans.

ETA I meant complicit in Einstein's death, not his underlying crimes and original acts.

First, thanks for the tip. It's good to know what we Americans should be scared as heck of.

Secondly, the fact that Barr was complicit in Einstein's death is frankly very surprising to me. I didn't realize Barr was that old. As an aside, I'll bet Einstein didn't rely upon spellcheck. ;D

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chase_gw

Odd what gives some their jolies......ah well when that's all you got it's all you got

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blue bayou

CNN just reporting that Epstein's cell was NOT BEING MONITORED on the day of his supposed "suicide".

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chase_gw

.....and that he was NOT on suicide watch and hadn't been for at least a week.

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blue bayou

WELL, ISN"T THAT CONVENIENT!

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ubro(2a)

If a criminal has already made one attempt at suicide I highly doubt that any one in charge of this person would take their " really, I'm fine, I won't do it again" comments. I would hope that he would be on watch until a psychiatrist or other suitable expert deemed him to not be a threat to himself.

It looks suspicious to me, it is like the Kashogii case, too many people in high places had a lot to lose.

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chase_gw

Evidently it was a psychiatrist who deemed him not a danger to himself.........this entire situation is bizarre

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

There has been some reporting on this:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-jail-deaths_n_5d4f298be4b0fc06ace89cb3

"...Jail suicides are almost entirely preventable, a HuffPost investigation found in 2016, and they’re far more common than you might think: Suicide has been the most common cause of jail deaths for every year dating back to 2000. The number of detainee suicides hit a record high with an average of more than one per day in 2014, the year for which the most recent Justice Department data is available. Three-hundred and seventy-two people killed themselves, accounting for more than a third of all inmate deaths that year, according to the latest Bureau of Justice Statistics report on mortality in local jails. It was a 13% increase from suicide deaths in 2013.

Inmates face a greater risk of harm when jail authorities neglect to follow protocol. Those with a history of serious mental health issues or suicidal behavior need to be under continuous supervision, experts told HuffPost, as it can take just five minutes to die by strangulation, for example.

“Under the circumstances, I would have a staff member sitting there or have a camera on [Epstein] 24/7 while he was in my custody, purely to cover my butt,” Bob Hood, a former federal Bureau of Prisons chief of internal affairs, told NBC. “I know that sounds tacky, but this is not your average inmate.”

Not only had Epstein seemingly already attempted to take his own life, but he was also due to stand trial for federal criminal sex charges. Accused sex offenders are at a significantly higher risk of suicide than members of the general population...."

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Kathy

He was given a window, or someone else was given a window. Either way it was allowed, imho.

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patriciae_gw(07)

A understaffed facility, he is not a violent person and your psych guy has said he is not going to kill himself. You do not have unlimited resources, heck you don't even have adequate resources. He gets to spend hours chatting with his lawyers and everything seems to be just fine. They haven't told you to watch this guy closely. What are you going to do? This is the sensible straightforward interpretation of what happened.

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ubro(2a)

Still, when someone this important to the lives of many in high places dies, it makes one wonder

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Kathy

The clue was a couple of weeks ago when he was found with marks on his neck and it was said he tried to commit suicide. Game over. He should have been watched.

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ubro(2a)

I don't think a 24/7 camera would have been a stretch on staff.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Suicide watch, or no suicide watch, the Epstein trial was going to be explosive, and the jailers should have been on extra alert to make sure that the defendant made it to the court alive and in one piece.

Gross incompetence.

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chase_gw

Or deliberate negligence.........

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catkinZ8a

His death was staged.

It was done to put the spotlight on Crooked and Co/DS.

#ClintonBodyCount Trended On Twitter After Epstein “Suicide” Due To Trump & 84,000 – Twitter Shut It Down

Epstein's in a federal witness protection program, IMO.

Now that JE's *dead*, there's no waiting until June 2020 (his lawyers got the court dates pushed out) it all can be fast-tracked.

The media is convulsing in panic.

You have your opinion and I have mine.


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Jenn "My kingdom for a nap!" Mom(5)

Even with a camera on somebody 24/7, if you expect to be able to stop someone from committing suicide, there needs to be an individual keeping an eye on that 24/7 camera feed. Just having it on with nobody watching the monitor is pretty much useless other than having the footage to show as evidence should anyone request to review it.

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catkinZ8a

uly 25, 2019

Jeffrey Epstein And Sen. Dianne Feinstein's Husband Were Co-Investors In An Exclusive Private Equity Fund

Posted By: TheInvestor

Jeffrey Epstein invested $30 million in a private equity fund alongside the husband of California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, demonstrating the extent of the disgraced New York financier’s ties to political movers and shakers, according to public documents reviewed by Business Insider. The initial investments took place two years before allegations that Epstein paid minors for sexual favors became public.

Records show that Epstein and Feinstein’s husband Richard Blum were both investors in Second City Capital Partners I, a $100 million fund founded in 2004 by the late Samuel Belzberg, the Canadian businessman behind Gibralt Capital Corporation and Belzberg & Co. The fund was directed by Belzberg’s son-in-law Strauss Zelnick, a well-known media investor who was briefly floated last year as a potential CEO of CBS.

The fund had approximately 40 limited partners in total, according to an SEC filing. Many of these investors were not disclosed, but since Epstein’s investments made up nearly one-third of the $100 million fund, the two entities associated with him were disclosed in public filings.

A $30 million investment on behalf of the billionaire Leslie Wexner

An SEC disclosure form shows that Second City Capital I received a total of $30 million in 2004 from two entities that share an address with Epstein’s U.S. Virgin Islands headquarters: C.O.U.Q. Foundation, a nonprofit Epstein uses to fund science-related projects, and an entity called YHS, LLC.

Two sources familiar with Second City Capital Partners confirmed to Business Insider that both investments were made by Epstein on behalf of Leslie Wexner, the billionaire founder of the Limited, who is the only publicly known client of Epstein’s purported services as a money manager to the hyper-wealthy.

Tax returns for C.O.U.Q. Foundation show that the nonprofit first made a $3.8 million investment in Second City Capital Partners I in 2004. By 2008, it was worth $7 million; C.O.U.Q. Foundation transferred its interest in the fund to a nonprofit associated with Wexner that year.

Epstein conducted “little to no due diligence” before investing, according to a source

A source familiar with the fund confirmed that Epstein also invested $20 million on Wexner’s behalf through YHS LLC. The source said that Epstein mostly communicated through his long-time attorney, Darren Indyke, who also invested his own money into the fund, according to the SEC filing. This source also said the C.O.U.Q. Foundation’s total investment was $10 million, more than was disclosed in its tax returns.

Epstein’s investment was noteworthy, the person said, because after being referred to the team at Second City Capital Partners, he did little to no due diligence before forking over the $30 million investment.

In addition to his investment in the fund on Wexner’s behalf, Epstein directly co-invested an additional $20 million of his own money alongside Second City Capital Partners I into a debt warrant instrument in a company called ID Biomedical, the person said.

The size of Blum’s investment more than doubled in three years

Feinstein’s connection to Second City Capital Partners is documented in her voluminous financial disclosure forms from 2004 to 2010. Feinstein’s husband, the financier Richard Blum, is the sole owner of a limited partnership called Blum Family Partners, which in turn invested between $250,001 and $500,000 in Second City Capital Partners I in 2004, according to public filings. By 2008, the investment had grown to somewhere between $501,000 and $1 million, before going back to the lower range in 2009 and 2010.

“Senator Feinstein has no knowledge, ownership or control of any of those holdings,” a spokesman for Feinstein said in a statement. “She has no involvement whatsoever in her husband’s financial and business decisions. The senator’s assets are in a blind trust, which has been the case since her arrival in the Senate. The senator had never had any contact with Mr. Epstein.”

Second City Capital Partners’ parent company Belzberg and Co., and Blum Capital did not respond to requests for comment. A representative for Wexner declined to comment.

Read more: A sexual misconduct allegation from one of Jeffrey Epstein’s victims sparked a quiet war between two of America’s most powerful lawyers. Now it’s about to blow up.

Second City Capital Partners I invested in a variety of public and private companies, including energy, mining, real estate, and electronics companies. Epstein’s involvement was first reported by Bloomberg.

According to Feinstein’s financial disclosures, Blum’s investment in the fund persisted for several years after allegations against Epstein became public in 2006. It’s unclear whether Blum was aware that Epstein was an investment partner.

It’s likewise unclear whether Epstein was aware of Blum’s investment in Second City. But the multi-millionaire sex criminal has a long history of using his money to cultivate relationships with powerful political figures. He famously ferried former President Bill Clinton around on his private jet, and became close to former Harvard University president and Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers around the time he pledged to donate $30 million to Harvard.

The wife of the governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands was an officer in Epstein’s company

Epstein’s penchant for mixing business and politics extended to his adopted home in the U.S. Virgin Islands, according to corporate records obtained by Business Insider. Epstein’s Financial Trust Company, which he formed on the island of St. Thomas in 1998, employed Cecile De Jongh, the wife of former U.S. Virgin Islands Gov. John De Jongh, as a vice president and officer for a decade—including during six of Gov. De Jongh’s eight years in office.

The records show that Cecile De Jongh joined Financial Trust Company as its secretary and a member of its three-person board of directors in 2003. That same year, she identified herself as an “executive” for the Financial Trust Company in a Federal Election Commission filing related to a donation to a local congressional candidate.

In 2005, she was identified as the company’s treasurer in corporate filings, and beginning in 2006 she was listed as a vice president. For several years, the board consisted of Epstein, De Jongh, and Ghislaine Maxwell, the British socialite who has long been accused of (and has denied) luring young girls into Epstein’s human trafficking network.

In 2007, the year after Epstein was first charged in Florida for solicitation of a prostitute, he was replaced on the board by Indyke. Maxwell, who would eventually be named in Epstein’s controversial non-prosecution agreement as a “potential co-conspirator” in his crimes, was replaced by a local accountant.

Epstein returned to the company as president after his release from jail in 2008.

A lawyer representing Epstein did not respond to a request for comment.

Financial disclosures can’t be located

De Jongh remained on the board through 2012, when Epstein established a new company, Southern Financial LLC. Her husband, John De Jongh, was elected governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands in 2006 and served two terms.

During that time, the Financial Trust Company received benefits from the U.S. Virgin Islands Economic Development Commission, according to the commission’s annual reports. After he left office in 2015, De Jongh was arrested and charged with embezzling public funds; the charges, which did not relate to Epstein or the Financial Trust Company, were later dismissed.





https://theconservativeinvestordaily.com/2019/07/25/jeffrey-epstein-and-sen-dianne-feinsteins-husband-were-co-investors-in-an-exclusive-private-equity-fund/

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how2girl

Epstein (apparently) said he felt that his life was in danger from powerful people.

His suicide seems too convenient.

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Kathy

I considered Epstein could be in witness protection, but who would want to protect him? More likely they wanted him dead.

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ubro(2a)

Even with a camera on somebody 24/7, if you expect to be able to stop someone from committing suicide, there needs to be an individual keeping an eye on that 24/7 camera feed.

I agree, but as they are reporting this morning, this was not your ordinary criminal but a high profile witness, who had already attempted suicide once.

Putting someone on 24/7 watch can be done, and I would assume is part of the prison system protocol, so I highly doubt it would have been much of an inconvenience.


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Jenn "My kingdom for a nap!" Mom(5)

They most definitely should have kept him on 24/7 watch, with somebody sitting and monitoring the camera feed 100% of the time - it *is* doable, there's protocol for it, they even require every facility to have at least 1 'suicide watch cell' (these are typically a windowed room that allows the inmate to be visible from all angles at all times, and lack any structural or architectural features that could easily be used for self-harm, no shoelaces or bed sheets are permitted, etc).

All these things are *required*, a jail cannot get away with just deciding to not follow protocol for any reason. But suicide is the number one inmate cause of death, despite the regulations and actions taken against facilities found negligent.

Epstein was a criminal defendant, not (just) a high profile witness. Who exactly would he be a witness against - maybe if he named names and fully cooperated so that prosecutors had enough evidence to charge others as a result? Now that he's dead, his ability to be criminally prosecuted is gone. But civil cases are still in play, and his estate would be the party liable for any judgment awarded.

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ubro(2a)

Who exactly would he be a witness against

Any other person who was complicit, he may have not talked but that does not mean he would never talk, or never give names of some of the other high profile people involved. I am sure the investigators were willing to press him in the hopes he would and they could catch more of these men. I highly doubt this ends with his death, someone else knows facts, he did not do this in a bubble.


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lurker111

I saw the picture of his body when they rolled him out...uncovered for the world to see. He was not the color of a dead man.

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ubro(2a)

^^^^ who leaves a body uncovered for the world to see?

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queenmargo

Maybe someone who wants the world to think he is dead?

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lurker111

^^^^ who leaves a body uncovered for the world to see?

That was the first thing I said..."Why is his body not covered?" Then..."Look at his color."

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

So lurker you think epstein was/is still alive when he was wheeled out? Well then, who would have the ultimate power to pull that off that stunt? Clinton, nyuk.

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Jenn "My kingdom for a nap!" Mom(5)

Prosecutors can hope all they want, they still would have to accept the fact that their criminal case against Epstein was a case against Epstein. Police investigators, FBI investigators - they'll continue looking into leads and tips about open cases, in addition to responsibly storing evidence in their custody (well, we HOPE they are responsibly storing it, that's not always the case though...).

Investigators might have been willing to press Epstein over the matter of who/what/where while he was in custody, but why on earth would he say anything that would be self-incriminating or possibly lead to reprisals against him? If he'd made it to his criminal trial, the only way other parties who might have been involved in or witnessed him committing actions related to sex trafficking/sexual abuse/sexual assault would come into play is the defense or prosecution putting them on the stand. If they're expected to testify in court and considered a 'co-conspirator', they tend to have a deal worked out with the prosecutor anyway, so Epstein wouldn't have anything useful to offer in any potential case against them. There are a ton of evidentiary documents in the hands of prosecutors, a substantial amount of those were recently made available to the media and/or public.

Criminal charges filed against someone are no longer possible to pursue in criminal court once the person who committed the crime(s) is dead. You can't sentence a dead person to anything. Anyone still alive who is believed to have been involved in the crime(s) that Epstein committed, isn't off the hook - investigators would most certainly be continuing to pursue evidence in such cases. The prosecutor simply wouldn't have the option of putting Epstein on the stand, not like Epstein would have volunteered to testify against people who participated in his sex trafficking/sexual assault/sexual abuse shenanigans. Everyone knows he'd have had his legal team do everything possible to prevent him from having to testify without it being literally forced upon him.

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catkinZ8a


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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

That fishy aroma that yawl detect is trump's head and what's rotting inside it.

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patriciae_gw(07)

OK, lets say he was killed. You decide you have to kill this guy. You could have done it any thousands of times over BEFORE he ended up in prison. That would be the most difficult place you could choose to kill him. Why would you make it hard?

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queenmargo

Why would you make it hard?

Apparently it wasn't?

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

That’s not so surprising patriciae.

For one thing, after his (rather unexpected) re-arrest the stakes became much higher. The first time he was arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced, and served his light sentence without ratting anyone out. But the possibility of a harsher sentence at an older age and in a much different social climate made it a greater possibility that he wouldn’t go down alone.

For another thing, there was no motive for him to commit suicide until his arrest. It’s probably pretty hard to dress up murder as a suicide when the person is not known to be suicidal. So that leaves accidental death, not impossible but hard enough to fake with any degree of certainty and not really worth the risk if there isn’t a strong motive (which there wasn’t until his re-arrest) or natural causes, improbable in a youngish man who is known to be healthy.

So with the added risk to those he can bring down coming from his arrest, it’s not inconceivable that someone would set him up to appear suicidal (unsuccessful first “attempt”) and then finish the job with a successful “attempt.”

All this applies to a hypothetical disappearance too, of course, whether that disappearance was coordinated by a government or by the man himself.

In theory.

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Ziemia(6a)

Maybe he wasn't officially deceased when he was wheeled out....

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queenmargo

Maybe he was sedated and on the way to the plastic surgeon?

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lurker111

officially

Oh my! Where did he die? I thought the report was "found dead in his cell". Was he transferred before he died? If so, where?


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chase_gw

I' m not buying that there was a photograph or video published of him being removed from his cell uncovered......well not a legitimate photo .

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lurker111

Of course not.

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roxsol

From what I have read, · Mr. Epstein was transported by EMS to a local hospital for treatment of life- threatening injuries, and subsequently pronounced dead by hospital staff.

eta...not sure if report is legitimate. Who knows?

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elvis

I am sure the investigators were willing to press him in the hopes he would and they could catch more of these men.

I agree, but let's not limit it to men.

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chase_gw

"Of course not."

OK , if it exists then show it to us. I'll wait

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chase_gw

Roxsol....that's what I am hearing too. Prison staff would not be the ones to pronounce death.

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elvis

vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

So lurker you think epstein was/is still alive when he was wheeled out? Well then, who would have the ultimate power to pull that off that stunt? Clinton, nyuk.

In Epstein's circles? Let's see...hmmm. Many, many people have that kind of power, all it takes is money, and they all have it.

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Joaniepoanie

patricae......he was arrested when he landed from Europe. I’m guessing the only ones who knew about the arrest were prosecutors in NY and the police. Im assuming he and everyone else thought he was home free since the 2008 charges were “settled” so no need to do him in. Once he was arrested and could spill the beans to try and save himself.....well, lots of suspects emerge.

I’ll believe investigative reporting before I’ll believe what Barr or this administration says about it.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

CPR would likely have administered - even if he were already deceased.

Anybody else here trained in CPR? That's the definition of someone you're working on; they are dead. They have no pulse & are not breathing. You're oxygenating & circulating their blood until Dr.s can take over.

And I heard reported that there are others besides Epstein, not yet named, who will likely be investigated in this case...

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queenmargo

and subsequently pronounced dead by hospital staff.

Perhaps the night janitor was the only one on duty?

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Cookie8

Hearing more information about how preventative the cells are for suicide by hanging - very suspicious. In the picture he has on his pants and a shirt (uniform so didn't use those). It sounds like the materials in the cell don't allow for hanging? BUT he does seem have a collar on (used in potential neck injuries - possible hanging) but it still doesn't make sense. Plus the collar doesn't look very substantial (from what I remember I recall it sitting much higher to the chin for maximum stabilization).

I agree with those that this is all so very suspicious. I don't believe he is alive -he will be no use. He's better off dead - except for his victims who would like him to face some real justice.

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althea_gw

I think he really is dead. That Victoria's Secret guy, can't remember his name, Epsteins only known "client" has handed over financial info apparently showing bad faith. He could have turned that over years ago, but didn't until after the apparent suicide.

Little St. James Island was raided today by the FBI.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7349729/Dozen-FBI-agents-raid-Jeffrey-Epsteins-Pedophile-Island.html

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blfenton

Maybe he was sedated and on the way to the plastic surgeon? - margievank

Now this is a conspiracy theory I could actually buy into. Perhaps David Baldacci could write the book and starring William Hurt in the movie.

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judeNY_gw

Yeah that picture is so convincing. If you're brain dead.

Competes with the videos of Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov.

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patriciae_gw(07)

That person looks thoroughly dead. Yellow waxy hands and swollen congested red face. Dead. If he were an ordinary mortal maybe the paramedics would have called it but they are doing cpr so....given the absence of any appearance of speed the medics know but cant call it.

There was more than sufficient noise about the possibility of re-arresting Epstein before he was. If I had something serious to hide I would have acted then. Since he would have had to be a fool to just say "I'll tell" without evidence locked away what does killing him do? His life is going to be sieved.

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Prim Rose

People don't hit bottom when others expect they would. Out of jail he was probably living the same pediophile life. In jail, no bond, no hope, you hit bottom. Maybe he saw himself as irredeemable. Maybe not a believer in grace. who knows?

Facts are: he's dead, he's not escaped, he's not in a witness protection program; and Clinton had nothing to do with any of it.

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althea_gw

Prim Rose I think the most important thing was to have the criminal case go away. An apparent suicide would take care of that. The civil suits can go forward.

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Prim Rose

He killed himself. Simple.

Let the healing and civil cases go forward.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

It's being suggested that his associate Ghislaine Maxwell may be on the hook to be prosecuted/investigated. It's reported they want to go after his procurer(s). She seems to be incommunicado at the moment...

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Prim Rose

What do you mean "on the hook"? I'm not into the conspiracy theory loop.

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Kathy

Carol, is it true they can’t fInd Maxwell? She must have gotten a heads up.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Just an archaic idiom. The opposite of 'off the hook'. Like a fish...

off the hook

  1. Pardoned, vindicated, released; allowed or able to avoid blame, responsibility, obligation, or difficulty.At first, Sam was suspected of stealing money from the safe, but he was let off the hook after security camerafootage showed it was someone else.A: "I thought you had that big work event tonight." B: "No, it got canceled, so I'm off the hook."


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Prim Rose

Thnx. It's all so perverted and disgusting.


I don't want to know anything more than that his victims are treated well and given restitution.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

@Kathy - I heard that on NPR yesterday afternoon. Something about she has several residences & might be in the UK...?

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ubro(2a)

He killed himself. Simple.

Let the healing and civil cases go forward


Let's hope the rest of his smarmy group also are found out.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)
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ubro(2a)

I would not want to be Ghislaine Maxwell, she probably knows too much.

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blue bayou

"I would not want to be Ghislaine Maxwell, she probably knows too much."

You really think J.E. is going to be the only one from that circle to leave the terrestrial plane sooner rather than later?


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Kathy

Since everyone has a theory because there is a severe lack of facts and a long string of excuses why this happened, my thoughts lead me to believe his lawyer or someone gave him a poison pill that acted quickly and might not be detectable so he staged the hanging to cover up for his accomplice.

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Cookie8

Me too Kathy. Definitely think he was given an easy way to end his life. I don't think it mattered if it was by detectable means - just fast and easy.

After the last attempt and given the circumstances of this case - he should have been monitored 24/7 until trial. Use the same ways as war - take his resources to pay for it (sorry for my sarcasm but can't help it).

I really hope it doesn't fade and they move to the next person, then the next, carrying it as far as they can.

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blue bayou

How long before the movie gets released?!

Estimating, 4-5 years.

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Kathy

Rachel Maddow said on her show that 2 of Epstein's lawyers hired their own lawyers recently.

This is not normal

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Ziemia(6a)

So, Ghislaine is the daughter of THAT Maxwell (had forgotten about him):

In a remarkable quirk of history, the stories of Robert Maxwell and Epstein are linked, through Maxwell’s daughter, Ghislaine. The motor yacht on which Maxwell took his last steps was called Lady Ghislaine. Shortly after his death, Ghislaine Maxwell moved to New York, where she met Epstein, becoming his girlfriend, and, according to some accounts, his procurer. (She has vigorously denied these claims.) Like Maxwell, Epstein was a self-made figure—he hailed from Coney Island and didn’t graduate from college—who lived on his wits. Like Maxwell, he cultivated prominent people even though the source of his fortune was opaque.


https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/jeffrey-epstein-and-the-mysterious-deaths-of-the-rich-and-ruined

**********************

And, there's a Mossad link?

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elvis

Well, I guess I figure he made his fortune providing food to satisfy the appetites of his very, very rich clientele. The list of people who wanted to shut him up is no doubt legion.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Of course it's ridiculous to think the clintons had anything to do with it...they are such has-beens when it comes to being anywhere near power.

However, it's less ridiculous to think that trump/barr and their rich & powerful friends had something to do with it as all they had to do was exactly what they did...take him off suicide watch and leave him alone in a cell unobserved, esp as he'd already attempted suicide only a couple of weeks earlier. Oh yes, and then have barr follow on with some outrage over how this could've happened and start an 'investigation', then have trump spin a clinton-related tale out of whole cloth as a distraction.

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cattyles

That was an enjoyable thread. We should all hate the same person more often.

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Jenn "My kingdom for a nap!" Mom(5)

It's very disappointing to read about the situations that have been going on within not just federal correctional facilities but ALL correctional facilities - not enough trained officers, hiring and budget cuts/freezes, expecting people hired for teaching or maintenance positions to fill in for trained officers, working 18 hour shifts because there's nobody coming in to work after an 8 hour day to relieve you, etc.

As if overcrowding and using jails to substitute for mental health facilities wasn't bad enough. Suicide is the leading cause of inmate deaths within correctional facilities.

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pippabean_5b

@Jenn

For the repubs this is a feature, not a bug. It's all done in the name of "small government" and to achieve privatization of most government functions.

  1. Starve the government, until, surprise, surprise, it doesn't function any longer.
  2. Then tell voters, "look, here is the proof, government can't do anything right.
  3. Let's cut government spending and privatize services.

This is where we are now. And the repubs LOVE it.

The dysfunctional, understaffed federal penitentiary system had the "unintended", (ha!) side effect/result, to have quieted the star witness (trump's party buddy for decades) who might have started singing and revealing the president's interesting"partying habits".

For trum and Barr, what's not to like?



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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

The responsibility for this is Barr's. He can try to shift blame to the correctional facility, but he is where the buck stops.

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blue bayou

"but he is where the buck stops."

Actually, go one up...to Donnie t. Darko


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althea_gw

"That was an enjoyable thread. We should all hate the same person more often."

I agree! It is also fun that virtually no one accepts the official story of the alleged suicide.

Today's news reports broken bones in his neck which are more typical of strangulation than suicide by hanging.

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queenmargo

I agree! It is also fun that virtually no one accepts the official story of the alleged suicide.

Prim Rose

He killed himself. Simple.

Was this a Freudian slip althea? lol

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Carro

There's nothing simple about Epstein's death.

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althea_gw

Margie, that is why I said "virtually no one" remembering the post by Prim Rose. Maybe Prim just needs more information. :-) It is a rather suspicious suicide. I think it was more likely an assisted suicide.

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lurker111

Premeditated murder.

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queenmargo

althea- see how easy it is read things differently. This is what is done to Trump all the time. Then the left calls him a LIAR and a RACIST!

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Ziemia(6a)

Most conspiracy theories floating around these days are farces. Easily shown as such in most cases. Occam's Razor.

In this case, applying Occam's Razor here leads to "inside job".

(And following up - OR also leads to seeing Trump's view about most African Americans.)

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lurker111

The cellmate was removed...the cameras quit working, the guards were??? Screams were ignored. Time to get real.

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Carro

Guards were sleeping. Time to get real, indeed!

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althea_gw

"... the left calls him a LIAR and a RACIST"

This is where I differ from the ordinary "left". I call Trump a pathological liar, a racist, a misogynist, a sociopath, an example of all of the worst attributes a human being is capable of. More adjectives set me apart. But this thread is about the suspicious death of someone else.

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lurker111

The boogieman.

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pippabean_5b

The result of repeat republican spending cuts:

Federal penitentiaries are so understaffed that guards are very often forced to work two 8hr shifts. They then get to go home, yet only are allowed maybe 5 hrs of sleep before having to report back to work. No wonder they fall asleep.

Be proud rwingers. You got what you keep voting for.

And JE's death does come in handy, doesn't it trumpsters?

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Annie Deighnaugh

But none of that explains the deal he got from acosta, including an agreement not to prosecute all of his co-conspirators and it's even questioned if his jail cell was ever locked. So if you don't think justice is different for the rich and powerful, you're wrong. And if you think there wasn't an incentive to shut him up permanently, as well as deliver a message to others in the know that they too can end up in the same condition...if they can get to you in jail, they can get to you *anywhere*...you're wrong.

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Ziemia(6a)

Well, Barr's family seems to be complicit.

Dad's writing career:


Space Relations - about sex slavery.

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ohiomom

Well lets see he strangled himself till he broke several bones in his neck ... no I do not think so.


The feds/prison/guards are all gonna cover their behinds on this one ... and point fingers and make ridiculous accusations (conspiracies).


I do hope the girls/women that this pedophile abused/raped get their justice.


Didn't know the pedophile had a brother.

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Cookie8

"But none of that explains the deal he got from acosta, including an agreement not to prosecute all of his co-conspirators and it's even questioned if his jail cell was ever locked."

This is why I wouldn't necessarily call it a Trump thing. Epstein had his protection from the get go. If he was just some guy providing these girls to men around the neighbourhood - he would have been imprisoned in 2008. There is a lot behind Epstein besides Trump.

Another thing about Trump and Clinton - they haven't been named exclusively as of yet. Others have been - Prince Andrews, Dershowitz, Bill Richardson, Glenn Dubin and a few more as mentioned by Virginia Guiffre. These women have to come forward and log books have to be revealed to really explain what went on. BTW, I don't believe Clinton or Trump were innocent friends, IMO.

And definitely follow the money trail behind Epstein.

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Ziemia(6a)

The federal prison aspect *IS* a Trump thing.

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althea_gw

"But none of that explains the deal he got from acosta, ..."

I guess no one posted this bit of information yet. This is the only thread I have followed so I don't know what has already been said.

This is when Acosta was asked about it during his Labor. Sec. confirmation hearings.

"This leads to the third mystery surrounding the Epstein case: Who are his coconspirators and why were they granted immunity from prosecution? Acosta provided an important clue when he said he was told to back off because Epstein "belonged to intelligence." Others have claimed that Epstein's residences were equipped with hidden cameras and microphones in the bedrooms that Epstein reportedly used to record the sexual assault of underage girls by his high-profile guests."


https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/jeffrey-epstein-alexander-acosta/Content?oid=72076495

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Carro

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Epstein had compromising information on many of the world's wealthy and powerful.

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Ziemia(6a)

Althea - there's that Mossad connection again.

PS: there's the topic of Epstein's death - and then the bigger one of "what in heck is the full story of Epstein's life work?"

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Cookie8

"The federal prison aspect *IS* a Trump thing."

The whole prison thing is a mess. The justice system for the impoverished is a mess. The justice system for the wealthy and powerful is just unfair. It has been like this through many presidents. Until there is something for people to notice, no one cares, or it seems. Powerful people get away with things. I'm all for this ending. If Trump wasn't president, you think this wouldn't have happened? I think it would have regardless. It's systemic.


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Ziemia(6a)

For me, Epstein's jailing is a subject different from the horror that is our incarceration system.

Two topics. Related yet separate.

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Ziemia(6a)

Friday night - his cell mate was bailed out?

Two exhausted guards who fell asleep?

A relatively new warden (that has again now been transferred)?

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ohiomom

" People like him just do whatever he wants to do. "

Look the people who lived in the vicinity of the pedophile's island actually called it "Pedophile Island", they saw the pedophile with young girls as did the people in New Mexico/New York and elsewhere. These are people (adults) who did NOT work for the pedophile and yet said nothing.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”


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Cookie8

"For me, Epstein's jailing is a subject different from the horror that is our incarceration system."

For sure. Just saying corruption is high all around us and always had been.

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althea_gw

Ziemia, I haven't followed anything about Moussad. Of course, anything is possible. I do remember that another part of the reason he got off easy in '08 is because of info he gave to the FBI. The Daily Beast wrote about this back in 2018.

"But as part of that deal, according to records cited by the Herald, Epstein provided “valuable consideration”—in other words, critical information—to federal investigators. There’s no direct evidence of what that information was, but records show that at around the same time, Epstein was considered to be a crucial witness during the trial of two Bear Stearns executives who faced allegations of corporate securities fraud during the 2008 financial crisis."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-became-a-government-informant-as-part-of-sweetheart-plea-deal

There is a screen shot of the FBI document floating around the web if anyone wants to find it.

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Kathy

Epstein's body guard had previously said Epstein was warned by local authorities when they were going to check on him. Me thinks Acosta was in deeper than it appears.

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Cookie8

Holy twisted, crazy and deep tied.

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