Green Romantica. Bought today

Paul, I love that Ralph Moore rose. Too bad it is not in production. Hmmmm, do you think Burling has it?

Looking at all these exotic roses, I guess I have mundane tastes. None of my roses are particularly unusual. Not really "unique" but not a rose you see posted on the forum, is Alexandra, Princesse de Luxembourg. I'm debating removing her because the flowers are so susceptible to thrips.

"Paul, I love that Ralph Moore rose. Too bad it is not in production. Hmmmm, do you think Burling has it?"

I very much doubt it - when Burling started her own nursery she collated a list of varieties she knew had clearly defined commercial value . Un-named Ralph Moore roses have an undetermined commercial value, as in Zero, until they are named. I believe only Texas A&M has naming rights for the Moore archive now.

Too bad. I would have loved to have had some of the roses he was using for breeding or was working on.

Some really gorgeous unique roses!

Thanks Stephanie. I thought I had added pics last year for The Tooth Fairy, but apparently only with my comments. It's even bigger and better this year making just a froth of a shrub, constantly blooming. I'm surprised more people don't grow MmeNLV as she's so great and continues to bloom all summer. I have multiples of this rose, but a couple are about 100 yrs old. including that pictured. They are hardy and take neglect, but will BS if not fed.

Had TAMU or any of their "partner nurseries" any interest at all in naming or introducing any of the Moore roses, I would have thought they would have done it in the decade-plus they've had them. The few I had like that, I passed on to John Bagnasco for the CCRS and their auctions. They were pretty flowers, or interesting sepals, or genetically interesting and fun to study, but eventually you have to value them the way the rest of the world does and treat them accordingly.

I would mention tangentially, that John Bagnasco is the breeder of the Tooth Fairy. I would love to have more of his roses if they're anything like this one.

Vap, I think he bred Tangerine Streams which used to be commercially available. I generally don't like orange roses but this one seems very pretty.

Sadly, I think Kim is right - if TAMU was seriously interested in releasing any of the test seedlings from the Moore archive, we'd have seen action on it by now. I think its a huge loss to the community of growers that these roses are now locked away in a stagnant archive. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I'm not.

Unfortunately, I'm confident you are not wrong, Paul. There is only one instance of someone inquiring about introducing one of his roses and that was met with a "sure, go ahead!" Occasionally, another of his unreleased or given away things surfaces and we name and start spreading them around. The two latest were Moore Bouquet and "Fire'n Spice" . I'm sure there are MANY more of his roses out there which haven't surfaced. He gave away SO much.

Roseseek, how do you think Moore Bouquet would hold up in z5/6, if, of course, I could ever find it? Mr. Moore's name has been familiar to me since the 1970's when I would read the Roses of Yesterday and Today catalogs cover to cover. There was always a mention of Mr. Moore, his contributions to rose breeding, and how admired and respected he was.

Stephanie, thanks for the heads-up. I posted a few pics for both TF and MmeNLeV on HMF. These are such great roses that really enliven a space and provide a certain sweetness. with the single blooms and small pompons.

"Occasionally, another of his unreleased or given away things surfaces and we name and start spreading them around."

@Kim,

If TAMU has that attitude towards naming the roses Ralph spread around (like what you and I have in our collections) then I am inclined to get on that train and get a couple of them properly named. I think a rose as important as 0-47-19 ought to have a proper name at this point. There are several others that come to mind....

Oh, I can't believe my eyes when I click on a name that are in numbers on HMF like 0-47-19 .
That is unbelievable ! I agree it should have a name or something not numbers. I would not have known about this this at all. Thanks Paul for putting up the link.
I think every rose should have a name esp the trial is done . That should be the next step.
jin

I'm sorry, flowersaremusic, I doubt it would survive in that cold of a zone. It's a very large climber and there is nothing to indicate it would have any greater cold hardiness than your average modern rose.

I fully agree with you, Paul. 1-72-1 is another which comes to mind requiring a proper name. I have a flourishing one and the one I gave to Kippy in Santa Barbara is HUGE. You should see her MORsoul (String of Pearls)! I guaranty you Mr. Moore had NO idea it would get THAT large and it tip roots everywhere! Her Moore Bouquet is eating her side yard! 0-47-19 is one I mourn losing in the move to the Central Coast. I have several climbers and ramblers I bred from it, but having it back again would be fun and useful. Everyone with whom I shared it, has either lost it or died. Quite a recommendation, isn't it?

Thank you, Kim, it surely is beautiful. I'm happy to know it is thriving and being appreciated by others who care and will preserve it as well as other rare, unnamed and somewhat lost roses of days gone by.

So, since we have moved on to this topic, can you tell me something I have wanted to know? When a rose has moved into an archive, how is it stored? Is it the whole plant? Just one plant that they try to keep alive (that would be thousands of plants), the pollen (but then it would have to cross with another plant to make a new one and it wouldn't be the original plant), just a genetic tissue culture? What is in there and how do they store it?

Kim,

I still have a large specimen of 1-72-1 (which is surprising, in that it survived a week of MINUS 7F temps during the 2015 Polar Vortex, in a large pot) and I still have "String of Pearls" (though not so large, since its still in a pot). I also have a plant of 0-47-19 which I propagated last year. Its available if you want it.

Paul

Someone, somewhere has to grow the plant and maintain it. You grow roses, so you are aware of all that entails. If you're talking about dozens, hundreds or more varieties, imagine the cost... That's what gardens such as Foundation Plant Services must do. Unless someone pays for the land, water, supplies, labor, how can you do it?

Thank you, Paul! Yes, please? I would LOVE an 0-47-19. I will email you my address and happily reimburse you however much you wish for it. I can easily receive it any time you wish to send it. Thank you!

@Kim,

Will do!

I have a thriving plant of ‘Moore Bouquet’ that I’ll be happy to share cuttings of when the weather is better (cooler in TX) for sending cuttings.

Wonderful, Matt! Thank you! What do you think about it and how does it perform for you?

Gorgeous blooms! They are all beautiful to me!

Memphis music to bed it doesn't stay looking like that it turns a really liver colored after a couple of days

Black Baccara (MEIdebenne), bred by Jacques Mouchotte (France, before 2000) and introduced in US (2002). This rose can change its velvet color from dark red to almost black when there's less sun. This is one of the roses that can be in the "black" rose category. This rose has good health and repeats well in my garden. Helen

Alakazam, bred by Robert B. Martin, Jr. (US, 2015) is a mini-flora which has yellow blooms with dark red stripes. Many people said it looks the same as Simsalabim (KORsimsala), a very rare rose, and I agree with them. Here are some pics of Alakazam in my garden.

Grand Old Opry (Welopry), a miniflora rose, bred by Verlie W., Jr. Wells (2009) and introduced in US (2009). The 2.5-inch blooms have yellow base with red and yellow stripes with moderate fragrance. It's very healthy and repeats well in my garden.

Pandemonium (MACpandem/Claire Rayner/Pan), miniature rose, bred by by Samuel Darragh McGredy IV (1982), introduced in New Zealand by McGredy Roses International (1988). The beautiful blooms have yellow and orange-red stripes with mild, musk fragrance. I just got this rose from Rogue Valley Roses, and this is the first bloom. I like it a lot. Helen

Ann, I love your Pink Poodle pic. I checked AngelGardens website and didn't see Pink Poodle. How did you place your order for Pink Poodle? Helen

Hi Helen - PP is available from For Love of Roses and appears to be in stock so I would try there first.

A few years ago I happened to ask Pam at Angel Gardens if she had it and she said yes but you have to be on a waiting list so it took awhile but I eventually got it. Later I met Burling and arranged to send her a cutting earlier this spring so she might have it too by now. Hope you get PP since it grows well. It’s always one of the very first roses to bloom each spring and keeps on going. Mine is in the ground but it should be great in a pot, especially under your care. :))

Ann

Thanks Ann. I contacted Richard from Forloveofroses to see if he has it in stock so it can be shipped it with one of the back orders. Helen

Helen. I am crazy about your Black Baccara . My favorite color of all the roses is that black red.

I would definitely buy a pot for that rose unless it's a huge 6' rose

Kristine, it will look great in your garden. I think it is a very special rose. Since you plan to have it in a pot, you can control how dark the blooms look by where you place the pot. If you put the pot in a morning sun location to make sure the rose in good health but not too much sun, you will get darker blooms. Helen

Kim- regarding ‘Moore Bouquet’ it has been heat tolerant, disease resistant, and vigorous. It’s growing in a dry area- i added drip irrigation this year and it has taken off and I can now see that it will be huge! I like the fragrance and can detect the moschata like scent. ‘Pink poodle’ has grown well also.

Marvelous! Thanks Matt! I'm glad they are doing well for you. Now, if you're interested, Paul has sent Mr. Moore's 0-47-19, the Wichurana X Floradora spring flowering rambler. It's the seed parent to Paul's magnificent Mel's Heritage. It roots EXTREMELY easily and is fertile both ways (hint,hint) and cuttings will be available by spring, should you be interested.....

I consider this rose unique because I don’t know anyone else who grows it. Spice Twice was a J&P test rose from the ‘90’s, I inherited the plant when I bought my house, the previous owner had planted it, and it luckily still had the metal tag on it. For a few years until I saw the tag, I thought they it might be Fragrant Cloud, but it has a much more subtle fragrance. It is one of my most prolific roses, I’m currently trying to propagate some cutting as to share this beauty with others.

This is such a wonderful thread! Thanks for all the great pics and stories behind!

I only have a few to share, and they are all moss roses. Although I have a thing for moss roses, the heat and humidity in NJ really don't agree with them, so they kind of suffer in my garden since I don't spray.

The first one is Scarlet Moss (Moore mini). The color in the pic has too much orange (crapy iPhone pic). It's actually deep true red.

The second one is Unconditional Love (Barden mini). Paul - I love this rose - thank you thank you! It stays petite for me, self-cleans, and blooms continuously through the season. Once again, the color on the pic doesn't represent the deep red in reality.

Last but definitely not least, Kim Rupert (Moore mini). This little rose has endured a lot of abuse in my garden, being shaded by the rose behind that grew much bigger than I had anticipated. So I finally moved the poor rose this year. Although it has quite a bit of catching up to do, it still gave me some beautiful flowers after the move. A tough rose named for a great rosarian!

--Lin

Thank you Jin, I am very glad that 'Unconditional Love' is a favorite of yours!

Paul , I believe that credit goes to Linc must be auto correct Bec it happens to me and it auto changes to Lunch...go figure !!
Linc, I absolutely adore your choices of roses bred by my favorite Rosarian. It is really awesome to see what you have collected.

Matt that is such a beautiful story about a rose that came with the house. I have to Google on that rose more. What a beauty :)

Sabalmatt , do you have pics of "Pink Poodle " ? Another rose I have to look into. Been so busy with work that I am just trying to do catch up.

jin

Hi Jin (waving here :-) ), I LOVE many of the roses you grow and I have read about here! Too bad many of your lovelies I can't even think about touching because our climate is so very different (zone 7a here, but I suspect sometimes we are still 6b in those coldest days in winter). Tried Bermuda Spice one year. It grew so so well in that first year, from a teeny little band to a 1.5' x 1.5' bushy structure. I even consulted Christopher (NJ), who had Spice at that time and lives just about half an hour south from me to help winterize my Spice. But still, I lost it in that first winter :-( . Heartache, and I don't want to experience that again.

Love love Paul's roses! Amazing creations which bring beauty to such a wide range of zones! I'm so grateful that I've had the opportunities to try many of his roses that thrive in the colder zones.

Here is Memphis Music. I don't know what happened to my other picture. The blooms last forever but I'm not wild about what the color changes to

Linc, you are welcome. I always envy so many roses that Northerners grow so seeing them is a treat for me....Warm hugs from Florida, and waving back.

Chris is amazing kid and extremely knowledgeable. He helps me a lot too :)
I cannot believe that he is only half an hour away from you and it made such a difference for winter. Wintering plants and roses can be so challenging. If it is not the weather it can be be deers or rabbits . It is a total heartbreak experience but don't give up :)

jin

I totally forgot about Gophers with deers and rabbits...
jin

Hi Jin, I'm not giving up yet :-), just have become very cautious choosing what to try in my garden. But I am shying away from zone-pushing, so no more chinas or teas for me. So I have to live vicariously through the pics you and other warm zoners post here.

You don't have deer?! No rabbits?! We have TONs of them here. My outdoor cats are keeping rabbits and ground hogs away from my yard, and I'm lucky to have a completely fenced in backyard to grow my roses in. But deer are decimating my front yard, and all the surrounding areas too. You are so lucky not to have to worry about these critter problems.

Sorry Bayarea Girl, getting really off-topic here :-P

Linc, it’s no problem. Conversations are always welcome :) Helen

Sorry, Helen :)

We do have deers and rabbits but just not here in the city. Deers are found in Panhandle and in the Keys . The Keys deer I know is protected by the state and not sure about the rest. They are very small almost the size if a Great Dane...lol.
Adult male white-tailed deer in Florida weigh on average 125 pounds and stand approximately 36 inches tall at the shoulder.  Female deer are smaller, averaging about 95 pounds and 32 inches in height.  Florida deer are considerably smaller than those in most other states.  
Rabbits are along St. John 's river which ran from North to South. So, no I have never seen them at all except in Ocala forest. In the country you see them all the time.
Here we see armadillos and raccoons . Tons and tons of Gators. Moles but no Gophers as far as I know. So, my roses are safe (safer) and it is so devastating when someone's roses get destroyed.

jin

Here is a pic of. a Bobcat that was caught behind my friend's backyard who lives by my workplace at Universal (20 mins from my home) Heard we do have them around Disney area and Universal area. Trappers came to catch and release. The guy is a trapper.

jin

After all the years of rabbits, gophers, moles and squirrels, not to mention all the associated snakes, coyotes and bobcats which feed on them, I am SO BLESSED to NOT have ANY of those issues here. I wouldn't go back to them for anything.

That is one really big bobcat!! In your friend's backyard?! YACK!

In addition to your bobcats Jin, let's not forget your Florida gators! That national famous video of a Florida gator climbing a fence had me shuddering involuntarily. Between gators and deer, I will take deer any day and you can definitely keep your gators!

I am ready with my Billy Club...lol.
Let's go Gators !

jin