With any of the high-powered gas stoves, you absolutely must have adequate ventilation. 600cfm is probably on the low end of what will work, but it might just do, if you make sure your vent pipe is a sufficiently large diameter (I'd suggest 8") and your make-up-air system is up to snuff. A 1000cfm hood would be a safer bet, though.

Also, with any high-powered stove, make sure you carefully read the clearance requirements. Your upper cabinets might not be in a safe location for these stoves.

You also absolutely must have a proper backguard. So, keep that in mind when selecting a stove. None of the pictures that you showed included backguards, and that is almost certainly going to cause you grief.

If you decided on induction instead, some of these requirements might be relaxed a little bit.

As far as cleaning is concerned, I have a enamel and cast iron range (20 year old Viking) in our in-law unit and a open-burner all-cast-iron Bluestar range in our main kitchen. It's like night and day. The Viking is a major pain to keep clean, whereas the Bluestar rarely requires more than a quick wipe-down with a damp towel. I would never again pick a closed burner. Of course, if cleanability is a major factor in your purchase decision, it's hard to beat induction. Nothing cleans easier.

I suppose I should explain a little about what I meant by Wolf being a "status" thing. I wondered if it's really as good as it gets in this price category, or do we really buy into the "I arrived-because-I-can-buy it" thing.

I had this aspiration to own a Mercedes Benz. I moved to North America from a tiny Eastern European country and back there and then you could only drive one if you were a gangster of sorts (times have changed and it's probably different now). I have had four since then and I'm just shocked as to how unreliable they are (although they are still a dream to drive, when they do drive). I have had issues with all sorts of things failing, just too many to mention here. The only one that we had, happened to be a rare 1992 model, was built like a tank and had very little electronics. My husband still regrets that we sold it, it would probably outlive all other new models that we've had.

M, thank you! If I do decide to go with one of those ranges, I would be definitely getting a back guard.

From what I read, if the total BTU for all four burners is a little under 65,000 BTU, then I should be ok with the 600 cfm. I don't think I have ever used all four burners and the oven at once (shows you how much of a cook I am :). I will look into it some more, though.

Search for postings by @kaseki in this forum. He frequently explains how to compute the optimal flow rate for vent hoods. It doesn't just depend on the power of the burners, but also on the overall size of the hood. I made a bit of an educated guess, when I told you that 600cfm was on the low end and 1000cfm was a safe bet. But you'd have to do the actual math with the precise numbers of your hood and your stove, if you wanted to be certain. As a ballpark, I would expect to have given useful guidance though.

As to your other point, I really can't say much about "have I arrive yet?". I follow the mantra of "form follows function", and while that tends to make me favor more expensive brands, my purchase decisions are rarely guided by the perceived status of a particular brand.

I suppose, both Wolf and Viking are considered prestige, and Blue Star wouldn't be, as fewer people have heard of this brand. Also, gas might look snazzier than induction. And as you correctly identified, prestige doesn't necessarily equal satisfaction with the product. That's why I'd steer you away from Viking (lots of prestige, but higher likelihood of disappointment), and instead suggest Blue Star (best set of features for a passionate home chef, and easy to repair, if it ever needs service); or alternatively Wolf, if you need the more recognizable brand (IMHO, not quite as good as Bluestar, but still a very nice product).

But then, if money isn't a concern and looks is the highest priority, I would actually recommend something like LaCanche. They make absolutely gorgeous stoves -- and they actually happen to be good stoves, too. I don't think I recall ever reading about anybody regretting their purchase.

On the other hand, if you want both prestige and functionality, and you don't want to think too much, then upgrade all your kitchen appliances to Miele. Just make sure to pick their induction instead of their gas range. Really can't go wrong with Miele, except for the price.

Oh, and I just came back from a trip to Europe; it's depressing to see that the US pays such an insane mark-up on Miele appliances.

This reasonably-priced GE JGS760SELSS 5.6 cu. ft. Slide-In Gas Range ($1300) is recommended by CR. Owners seem to like it.

Hanna, I live in Washington state and know exactly what you mean on the home prices. We have a Wolf 48” all gas (propane) for 18 years, we love it. There have been no problems (knock on wood). It has charbroiler and griddle. My husband is a steak and potato man and after 45 years of marriage I have gotten him to cook. He thinks he’s gourmet. I just let him think that. We put the 10” stainless riser behind it, stainless on the sides with brick on the wall behind. The fan for the exhaust is on the roof and is 1200 CFM’s. Best of luck to you. Oh......on my way home from Central Market in Poulsbo today the “check engine” light on my Mercedes came on. What a PITA.

With young children who you’d like to eventually teach to cook, I would seriously consider induction. Safer. More precise controls and you don’t need as high a cfc hood

And the cooktop cleans up with a paper towel and windex because nothing bakes on

CR highly-rated induction:

• GE Profile PHS930SLSS
• LG LSE4617ST

M, I get what you're saying about the mark-up for Miele and quite agree. Same rings true for brands like Polo Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, etc, - considerably more expensive in European countries, from what I know.

jalarse, that's just beautiful! Thank you for that picture. Your husband looks like a pro, though :). I'm sure with the range like that it just comes naturally to him :)! Sorry to hear about the "check engine". I can only hope that it's nothing major...I have had all sort of things failing on me...

cpartist, I never owned or cooked on induction, but will definitely investigate that option as well. Thank you.

So today I went (again) to one of my local showrooms and a different salesman helped me.

We looked at Wolf and BlueStar together, and he completely steered me away from Viking, so we didn't even look at that. The take way I got from our conversation, is that he would recommend Wolf over BlueStar. According to him, BlueStar doesn't have the same stellar customer service as Wolf does. He explained that should I need service, I might get "we will send you the part, you watch this video and go get a screw driver from the garage and fix it yourself" kind of thing. As he mentioned, it all stems from BlueStar history, their commercial background, etc.

If I were to go with the BlueStar, his recommendation was to go with RNB series, and to go with unsealed burners. This is the type of burners they excel at. I have to say, it felt a bit unsettling to see the guts of the stove exposed like that (when it comes to cleaning) and to see the igniter wire. I went there with my children, and they were really busy with the books I brought with us, so perhaps he forgot that I have children :). But I can't see myself going with the unsealed burners, frankly. Just not my thing.

He brought up this point of gas line and electrical located in different spots for Wolf and BlueStar, printed the diagrams; and if I understand correctly, that there isn't a lot of wiggle room when it comes to those connections. I will need to have my current range pulled out and then I will see what I have going on there, and what will need to be modified, if anything.

Price-wise, Wolf was less expensive than the BlueStar RNB series....

And finally (ok, this part gets silly), but I fell in love with colors that BlueStar offers for their knobs and panels.

Wow, Sara, she's a beauty! What model number is it? It looks like you're in the midst of a renovation(?), so I'm guessing you haven't cooked on it yet, have you? Would really like to hear your feedback in due time :). Also, if you don't mind sharing, how did you arrive at this color? Your tiles and the range complement each other wonderfully. Such nice choices! And different, but in a good way!

That looks like a 36" open burner RNB (or possibly Platinum?) with a custom color. As Hamma said, it's gorgeous. I always thought that the option for custom colors was underrated. Yes, it's expensive, but every time I see a reveal photo, I am drooling.

I have been going back and forth on whether a 36" model is better than a 30". I think, the biggest downside is the even longer pre-heat time. But if you have another wall oven, then this doesn't matter much. We have combined our 30" RNB with a Miele CSO and a Miele SpeedOven. We use all three ovens, and I am extremely pleased with the combination of ovens that all have different strengths.

The Bluestar oven is really nice. Super steady heat and very reliable. It also has the most amazing broiler element, which we use quite regularly. But it does take at least 20min to preheat. So, there are times, when I prefer using our small ovens instead.

Thank you for the love! It is the RNB in May Green. I knew I wanted green-my favorite color since I was 8-and went back and forth between this and the yellow-green. I also knew I wanted some color in my backsplash-that was a harder choice. Haven’t cooked in it yet as we had to do the “burn off” process last night but plan to try something tonight, though the hood won’t be hooked up until tomorrow so nothing too major. We are almost done with a major remodel-we moved our kitchen and this is almost the last piece of that part.

I will say that I love how it feels so far. Everything is really solid and heavy and seems well-made.

Since you mention burn-off, here is a tip. The cast iron grates will eventually develop a natural patina. That's how they become easy to clean. It's just the same way how you'd season cast iron pots. Once they are seasoned, you just need to wipe them down with a damp cloth after cooking, and you are done cleaning the stove.

But instead of waiting for a few months, you can accelerate the process. Wipe all the grates down with a very thin coating of oil, and then place them in the oven during burn-off. When they come out, they'll look nice and evenly coated.

This is even something you can do years later. Our range is now about nine years old, I think. During our recent kitchen remodel, the contractors stored it on site, but it got pretty dirty. So, I put the cast iron grates into the dishwasher. Cleaned them up nicely, but also removed some of the protective seasoning. So, I went through the process of seasoning them again, and they now (almost) look brand new.

The only one that we had, happened to be a rare 1992 model, was built like a tank and had very little electronics.

We chose BlueStar for this reason -- built like a tank with very little electronics -- because we live in rural western Canada.

We did have a customer recall situation after we installed the range last year, and BlueStar sent someone out quite quickly and they made the long trek to our country location.

Our is cobalt blue, to match my Spode Blue Italian plates : ) .

A Wolf range, along with a SubZero fridge, definitely said "we've arrived" (so much so that SubZero acquired Wolf in 2000), especially 10-20 years ago, particularly for those who didn't bother to look beyond the red knobs, which were very noticeable in magazine features and on HGTV etc.

You might want to consider an induction cooktop and a custom-colored BlueStar wall oven.

Aside from posts in the GardenWeb Kitchen and Appliances forums, I've found the Yale Appliance website and blog to be very helpful.

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reliable-professional-gas-ranges

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/best-30-inch-professional-gas-ranges-reviews-ratings

I have been dealing with Viking QC issues and its poor customer service for some time now. Please do yourself a favor and stay away.

I would look seriously at an induction cooktop. We're putting one in our new build, and I can't wait. My six-year-old does cook with me, but right now I'm not willing to let her use the stove (and she doesn't want to because she finds it too scary). The induction will be so much better for cooking with her, which is a priority for me. I'm also looking forward to the easy cleaning and the rapid water boiling.

Wolf and Miele both make induction ranges.

The GE Cafe line also has induction ranges that allow a bit of customization of the look, with a single oven option and a double oven option.

Thermador also makes a range that has an induction module in it, so you get a little of each if you aren't ready to fully commit or if you don't want to commit to induction. I like a flame on my range top (sometimes I char peppers or tortillas on it)

Sara, good for you to go with your favorite color! I love your choice. I'm sure this whole wall will just make you smile every time you see it, i.e. when you walk into your new kitchen :). Did you order swatches from BlueStar? I was told by the second salesman I talked to, that the colors are your standard RAL colors, the decks of which are readily available in home improvement/paint stores, etc.; but if I decide to go with this range, I'd most certainly order the swatches. How is your kitchen coming along, by the way?

M, thank you and whoa, this is a little bit unexpected (that the oven takes that long to preheat!). I'm a little surprised, to be honest. My current GE takes 5-6 minutes to reach 350F. Why is that it takes BlueStar so long to do that? Just wondering if you happen to know!

The Bluestar oven is huge. Even the 30" oven holds full commercial baking sheets. Heating that much space takes time. Heating it evenly takes even longer. It's not unusual for other manufacturers to "cheat" and tell you the oven is preheated even if it hasn't reached the target temperature everywhere. The 20min that I usually do is based on observing an oven thermometer.

As I said, the oven is actually really nice. But it's not necessarily the best tool for every job. There are tasks where small ovens clearly have an advantage.

We paired the large Bluestar oven with a much more compact 24"-wide Miele combination steam oven. They nicely complement each other

beckysharp, thank you for your post - very informative. I have to be careful as well. I'm not in a rural area per se, but I'm in the area that is far enough from Seattle to *potentially* be an issue. I was already told by one of the appliance stores that their technicians don't go that far out, and that I will need to have another installer, who is certified by Wolf or BlueStar come out to do the installation. They are just independent techs, who don't work for the store.

I've been in touch with a BlueStar district manager, who, among other things, mentioned that he once had to fly out to Billings, MT, to correct an issue that a local technician messed up (the district manager is in Washington State). Interesting, isn't it!

As far as the cobalt blue goes, oh I hear you loud and clear! What a beautiful color! If I were to go with a BlueStar, this or a variation of this color, would be my first choice. This is Pauline de Rothschild's library, I love the use of it here:

I have this color at home here and there, although I'm no de Rothschild. Lol.

I've had this bird for a while...Rimini Blue, as they call it.

Sitting area · More Info

I also have this blanket on my stairwell wall. The blue in it is very vivid.

(I have changed the light bulbs since the last photo was taken. Made a world of difference!).

I read your other posts, k2flyguy, and I'm really-really sorry that you're going through this. What an ordeal!

So far I've been to two different appliance stores and spoke to two different salesmen. The first one wasn't very knowledgeable, but the second gentleman I spoke to was a true expert, who knew a lot about cooking and the restaurant business, etc, etc. They both unanimously and very pointedly steered me away from Viking.

Hamma, thank you for the love! We are absolutely loving it. Hood is up but power not in yet so we aren’t cooking much high heat, but we have still used it every day. This morning, husband fried bacon while I made crepes and we didn’t get in each other’s way!!!! We moved our kitchen for the remodel and have so much more space-I literally tear up when I think of how much I love it :). Just a few things to go until kitchen is actually done-power hood and island, paint trim, outlet covers on, adjust kitchenaid mixer lift.

I did order swatches, but they accidentally sent me a wrong one for one of the greens. At the time I felt really pressured to choose Asap as I thought the kitchen would go much faster than it did and they told me 10 weeks for stove to come,so I chose this green without a swatch. I regretted that a bit when the swatches came as I decided then I liked the yellow green better, but I love it now that it’s in. And as a side note-the stove came in 2 1/2 weeks so it’s been stored in the warehouse and then in our house since that time. :/.

Thanks so much, M. What you've said makes a lot of sense (re: preheating). I have a lot of counter space, so I might get a toaster oven later on, for those times when I wouldn't want to fire up the large oven. I've never owned one, but maybe it's time :). I will likely not get another microwave (and I will be getting rid of my over the range one), so perhaps I could use the toaster oven for reheating, etc.

Sara, I totally get it :). Your experience cooking breakfast together sounds so lovely! I'd love to get a larger sized one myself, but for now I'm sticking with 30"...And I wouldn't have guessed about the colors and the swatches mixed up, it's just too pretty of a color!

I was told by my local store that it takes 6-8 weeks to get the range with my choices, so it's good to know it could happen much earlier as well.

As it stands now, I'm thinking between Wolf and BlueStar, I've seen them both and I loved what I saw. I'll have my existing stove pulled from the wall and will take a look and see what's going on, as far as the gas and the electrical goes and make the decision. Again, thank you so very much, everyone, for your generous help, ideas and advice!

I do want to add that we bought a Breville Smart Oven when we thought we’d be remodeling our old kitchen, rather than moving it, so thought we’d be without for months. It’s been a really great option for smaller baking tasks-frozen pizza, roasting a small pan of veggies-and it heats very quickly.

Well we had the same anguish choosing, but ultimately we went with Bluestar! We got the RNB, RAL 6019. We also chose a VentAHood NPH9. No electronics to deal with in the range, not even a clock. The grates are actually porcelain coated so there really is no need to season them. Just a sponge with hot water on the grate you used and the grease will sizzle right off. The crumbs will fall to the bottom of the foil lined trays. I have had no reason to clean that out after a months use. I have found it a breeze to clean and there is so much fire for cooking. You will be amazed. Can't go back to closed burner again. Only issue has been some flame calibration issues, but It has not impacted my ability to cook. Choose Bluestar!

We bought a Wolf 48" Dual Fuel with a double griddle and love the eveness of the griddle cooking. HOWEVER, we are really UNIMPRESSED with Wolf customer service. We had issues with installation and between Wolf Customer Service and the Wolf Showroom personnel, no one seems interested in helping and just shuttling us back to the place of purchase. :( I get better customer service on my LG washer / dryer! :)

Jennifer, what a pretty color! Looks beautiful in your kitchen!

Amy, I'm sorry to hear that...A bit disheartening....I hope it's all fixed up now.

Well, I thought I'd post an update! I ultimately went with Wolf, 30", all gas. After my old range was removed, we realized that our builder had put in the connections to have a dual-fuel range, if so desired, which I didn't know about. Still went with gas, as this is what I'm used to, and this is what I wanted, and oh the price on dual-fuel (!), and I wasn't going to use self-cleaning on it anyway. My new range was just delivered and I haven't used it yet. Really hope I'll be happy with it.

As much as I liked the BlueStar in the showrooms, it would have been more of a unicorn in my area in many ways - 1. My preferred local appliance store doesn't carry BlueStar. 2. Service area, I'm kind of far away from major cities. 3. Not so well known around here (unlike Wolf).

So...I guess this is it, for now :). Thank you so very much everyone once again for all your thoughts, ideas and suggestions!

P.S. I think I might have totally bought in this whole status thing too at the end. Well, maybe just a little :). I ordered black knobs when I was ordering my range (which came free of charge!), and had the installation guys install black ones, not red :).

to answer the original question. I have had a GE, Verona and now a Wolf. I cook quite a bit and the wolf blows all of them away. The low heat (simmer) performance on the range and super consistent oven temps is amazing. So i would say it is less about status and more about performance and quality.

I also love the burner performance of my Wolf.

I have Viking now and I have had minor issues and I don't care for their products. However the range top does work well. In our new construction home, I opted to go for the Wolf Subzero package, but I did the Bosch 800 series dishwashers. I have had the Subzero under counter refridge and it is the BEST!

@Hamma This topic is rather old now, but wondering how you like your Wolf range? We were planning to get a Wolf dual fuel range for our new construction home, but I came upon a bunch of comments about the blue enamel chipping in their ovens. Not only is it unsightly but, more importantly, it might contaminate food-- yipes! So we are on the fence. Have you had any issues with your all gas range? BTW I was not a big fan of the red knobs either! We were originally going to go with a Thermador dual fuel range, but their new models have wi-fi built-in etc and we'd prefer not to have those extra features. Otherwise, we loved our old Thermador range but left it with the house we sold =)

@thatisthebottomline Wondering if you still like/love your Wolf range? Been reading about the chipping issue they have in their ovens, and that is starting to scare me off from their range. It'd be one thing if it's just an aesthetic issue, but sounds like the enamel/porcelain can fly into the food while it's cooking in the oven, esp with convection on, which we use quite often. Hope it's good news rather than bad!

HU-85011647

I just love my Wolf-ie! Have had zero issues with it so far. It's very solidly built. Cooks like a dream, cleans like a dream. All around good purchase. It's kind of a no-nonsense appliance, because there are no gimmicks, really. No self-cleaning feature, no timers and what-not, etc.

I did order (through my local appliance store, same one that I bought the range from) a Stainless Steel Kickplate for my range. https://www.subzero-wolf.com/store/installation/wolf/kickplates/30-gas-range-kickplate

Without it, one can see a bit of the connectors/pipes/"the guts" I guess, down below, if you get down on the floor. I thought it was strange that the range looked that "unfinished". What's up with that? I also didn't want the dust to get in there more than necessary. The kickplate was a whopping $20. Also, to install it, DH removed the valance from the range, screwed on the kickplate, and then put the valance back on. Voilà!

Hope it helps and good luck on your build!

@Kristin S Hi, Kristin. Which one did you choose between Wolf and Miele? I'm considering those two and wanted to see which one you went with and if you're happy with your choice!

We went with the Miele induction cooktop and LOVE it. So easy to use, precise heat control, incredibly fast heating.

@Kristin S Thanks Kristin! I'm glad you're happy with your new cooktop! May I ask you why you decided to go with Miele, not Wolf?

A little late with this, but we wanted Miele ovens (LOVE the combi steam oven even though I'm still learning to use it) and dishwashers. We had been seriously considering going with the Bluestar Induction or Wolf, but getting the cooktop from Miele pushed everything over into package territory that was eligible for a 10% discount, which effectively made it free to get the Miele cooktop. Since it was consistently rated as one of the best induction cooktops, it seemed silly to go with something else at significant additional cost.

I'd like to kick up this conversation again. So I have had both Wolf and Viking. I really loved both, the wolf more because of the burner range. I looked today at Wolf, Thermidor, Blue Star, and a few others. The viking was far less expensive. Because I live on Hilton Head, I have to be careful about being able to have something serviced here (otherwise I might go for a LaCanache because thats my dream range but I know people who have them and they haven't had the best luck). Wolf ranges are one year out. Blue star isn't going dual until next year and I prefer electric ovens to gas, but they are gorgeous, also a year out. Two appliance companies told me if you really love to cook, get the wolf again and they sell them all. Second recommends the Thermoior and said they have perfected the simmer options even better than wolf. Any more updates? They are 13,000 with tax, more for installation and down here you have to have the propane conversion so another 1000. Yikes.

I am always curious why people feel so strongly about dual fuel. It just feels like something that is more prone to failure. The appeal of the traditional Bluestar is its very straight-forward and rugged design. It's a true workhorse, and personally I wouldn't pick any other brand; but everybody has different preferences.

As for fuel source, it doesn't make a big difference in practice. Every oven needs some adjustments to your cooking technique anyway. And it's a much bigger deal adjusting to an oven that doesn't heat evenly (just to give a common example), than adjusting to a different fuel source.

We have a Bluestar gas range, and two electric Miele wall ovens (SpeedOven and CSO). And you know what, fuel source never even is a consideration when I have to pick one or the other. Each one of these three ovens has its own strengths, and I love this particular combination, though. If you have the money and space, I can't recommend it highly enough.

Technically, an electrically heated oven has the advantage of higher moisture, which can help with things like baking bread. But that's so easy to compensate for; it's why people love making bread in a Dutch oven. What else do you make where you prefer electric over gas?

In full fairness, the Bluestar gas range does have a known downside. It takes a long time to preheat. The upside is that it heats very evenly, is very predictable, and has the most amazingly powerful broiler, second only to commercial salamanders.

"Technically, an electrically heated oven has the advantage of higher moisture, which can help with things like baking bread."

That's backwards. Gas ovens have considerable more natural moisture than electric which is why cakes and some cookies do better in electric but pretty much everything else is better in gas. That said, electric ovens with steam/moisture systems can do quite well with breads and other things and in theory better than gas since they can control the amount of moisture and when. Professional electric deck ovens do well, consumer seem to still have a ways to go.

We have a Miele w/ moisture control and have still not gotten better bread out of it than our gas Bluestar. One day hopefully :-)

For us it'd be an easy choice to go gas if we could have only one oven. But one gas and one electric is much better for a number of reasons.

More: https://bamasotan.us/2020/12/the-kitchen/

But to the core question, I'm baffled as well. From a functional/performance standpoint there is no benefit to Wolf that I'm aware of, only downsides. Their gas burners are less powerful the BS but of far greater importance is that they do not produce as even of heat on the bottom of pans as BS.

Wolf does have a better griddle but even as much as we use one as a flat-top / pseudo french top, that doesn't outweigh the much worse burners.

The BS oven is, I believe, slightly more even than Wolf though not positive that that's a general thing. I believe BS does have a better broiler than Wolf. Our current BS RNB broiler is better than our prior Wolf and given that Wolf has not made improvements over the past decade but only degraded stuff I'd assume that's still the case.

This is a very common misconception. Gas ovens are naturally very well ventilated and have constant air exchange. They actually eliminate moisture surprisingly efficiently.

On the other hand, electric ovens tend to be sealed very well. Any moisture that is inevitably released by the food will remain trapped.

But as I said, most of that is academic. It's easy enough to compensate for, and I can't remember the last time I felt that I had to use a particular type of fuel.

Now, if you have a chance to get a steam oven, then that's a whole different ball game and I strongly recommend it. Extremely versatile and fun to use

"This is a very common misconception. Gas ovens are naturally very well ventilated and have constant air exchange. They actually eliminate moisture surprisingly efficiently."

That is incorrect. Gas combustion produces a constant and significant amount of moisture. You'd need a quite powerful exhaust fan to come close to getting the humidity down to the level of an electric - regardless of what you're cooking in them.

Stick a hygrometer in both (or do wet bulb / dry bulb) and you'll see the difference. Bake bread in them and you'll see the difference.

I do bake bread in my gas oven, and I don't think I can ever get sufficient moisture in there, even when spraying extra water. That's why I use the Dutch oven, which nicely addresses the concern.