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ac91z6

More on Paul Barden's roses, please!

ac91z6
3 years ago

I've seen the beautiful pics of 'Mel's Heritage', some envy-inducing pics of 'Golden Buddha', and the swoon-worthy 'Marianne'. 'Umbra', 'Etienne', and 'Rook' show up in the gallica threads every so often (haven't seen many of 'Rook' lately though).


The focus is usually on the (superbly beautiful) flowers, but I'd like to know/see more of the entire shrub, if anyone has pics. Of course, if you've just got flower pics there's never enough of those!


And a few more questions, for anyone who grows Paul's lovelies;

What zone are you in?

How tall/wide do they get? On the OGR types, do you see much suckering?

Do any set hips/show fall foliage for you?

Does their bloom time (if they are once-bloomers) avoid the worst of your spring/summer weather extremes, and does their flush beat the dreaded Japanese beetles?

Comments (55)

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    3 years ago

    Steelrose, yes Dakota is handling full sun really well. The bloom color does not fade or sunbleach like some others. The plant is 3 or 4 years old from a band. This rose is a lot healthier than any red I have. I love the black red bloom color. This rose has perfect foliage.

    ac91z6 thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    I anyone growing Farah Shimbo or Gallicandy?

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
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  • Deborah MN zone 4
    3 years ago

    Hello. I grow several Barden roses in western KY, zone 6b. They are some of the best roses I grow. I will list them one by one, answer your questions, and then post photos.


    Umbra - I have had this one 4 or 5 years. It is approximately 7 feet tall and 4 feet wide, with both annual pruning and some horizontal wrapping of new canes. Initially it was supported by a trellis, but it supports itself now. I would let it grow freely, as it takes on an attractive shape naturally, but we have Rose Rosette Disease here, so I try to keep it no taller than the 8 foot wall behind it. I have no idea if that helps prevent RRD, but it makes me feel better and Umbra happily sends out laterals from horizontal canes. There has been no suckering. As for hips and fall foliage color, I have seen neither. It is one of my first roses to bloom in early May, so it totally misses JBs and the heat and humidity. The foliage stays clean and I rarely give it any supplemental water. It is a great rose in my garden. No winter damage.


    Etienne - Same as Umbra, but not quite as large and it still needs some support. I had not done any real pruning until this year and I think I went overboard as it did not bloom as well. I won’t make that mistake again. This one is in a very sunny bed with some thirsty Austins so it does get extra water.


    Mel’s Heritage was planted about three years ago and has grown vigorously ever since. As you will see in the photos, it is planted on a large garden structure which it almost completely encircles; with canes 20 to 30 feet long. It blooms heavily in the spring, later than the Gallicas, but still early, say mid May. There is some rebloom, in gorgeous large clusters, but nothing like the spring, so no problem with JBs or fungal Disease. Rose slugs do sometimes find it. I hope rebloom will improve with age. I do get winter damage, but it comes back strong. I have not observed hips or fall foliage color. One final observation, most of the growth is with lateral canes. I think it has only three basals. This is another great rose, however I am somewhat concerned about its long term hardiness in my climate. It is grown in a very open spot in my garden and its only winter protection is mulch.


    Final four: Marianne, Dragon’s Blood, Licorice Tea and Pam’s Choice. These are all new, received in the spring. I have potted them up and will continue to do so until next spring. Without exception they have grown well and bloomed. Marianne is a once bloomer, but the other three have steadily bloomed since late spring.


    I grow a variety of over 100 roses (no spray) and honestly the Bardens are my favorites. I just wish they were not so hard to come by, otherwise I would collect them all.

    Umbra, not quite full bloom.


    Umbra.



    Older photo.


    Etienne again, also two years ago.


    Etienne


    Garden structure that Mel shares with others. The posts are 14 feet tall and 4 feet apart.

    Mel on the right, at least 20 feet from origin.

    Marianne, first bloom. I don’t have photos of the others.

    ac91z6 thanked Deborah MN zone 4
  • shebabee
    3 years ago

    OMG, these are all just gorgeous! I would love to grow any or all of them! Wow.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    Deborah, fantastic roses and pics! I especially like the one against the brick wall since I have one similar so it make a nice visual. : )) Btw, Peter Schneider has Fara Shimbo and Gallicandy if those interest you.

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • ac91z6
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Deb, I'm a cold z6! How does 'Mel's Heritage' come through the winter for you? Do you get reliable snow cover? I'd written him off as a warmer climate rose, now I'm wondering if I could sneak him in somewhere at my parents' house (because my yard is WAY to small). They've got a big retaining wall he could cascade down, if Mower Dad approves. He got a zero turn mower a couple years ago and he loves being able to mow the whole yard in less than an hour. To the tune of the old 'Spiderman' opening:


    Mower Dad, Mower Dad

    He traded up from the one he had

    Mulches sticks

    Runs from bees

    Can't stay out of Mom's lilies

    Look out! It's Mower Dad!


    In fairness, they're in the country and it's a big yard, and he mows the path to the creek with it. Your gazebo/pergola is neat! I'm sure it had to be a custom job - could you tell us some about it?


    How much shade do your 'Umbra' and 'Etienne' get? My 'Etienne' desperately needs out of her pot, and we've gotten just enough rain to make planting easy for the next few days. There's three places I could put her, ranging from full sun to sun/shade to part (mostly) shade. 'Teasing Georgia' is growing in that shady spot right now; she lives, and grows, and I get a spring flush, but no sign of rebloom yet there.


    Jacqueline, Lynn; thanks for those pics! I have a little 'Jeri Jennings' sizing up in a pot. I hope she looks as good as yours once she goes in the ground. 'Siren's Keep' is one that's tempting me; is she a big shrub or could she be trained as a climber?


    Sheila, thanks for posting those gorgeous pics! They're very happy in your yard, and your 'Dakota Redwing' makes me jealous - mine went in the ground last year, and I've only gotten one bloom from it! It might be in too much shade for a young plant.

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    AC 91, let me see if I can find a post to a Diane had blow-by-blow pictures of her husband I think building that! It reminds me of tusks it's so cool!

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Deborah MN zone 4
    3 years ago

    Okay, this reverse order threw me. I have concerns about Mel’s Heritage longterm hardiness, at least as a rambler. I had some cane loss last winter and so far it has not produced many basal canes, most of the growth is from laterals. For me it is worth a shot. I am okay with 10 or 12 feet growth per year. :-). No snow cover here.


    Both Umbra and Etienne receive direct sun from mid morning until late afternoon. If your shade is from deciduous trees it might not be a problem. These roses bloom so early many trees are not fully leafed out.


    And finally, Vaporvac was correct, my husband built the structure. It is 8, 14 foot columns connected with short metal fencing.


    Sheila, I like your Dakota Redwing. I may ”need” to track that one down.

    ac91z6 thanked Deborah MN zone 4
  • sharon2079
    3 years ago

    Great.... I am trying to find the pictures in the thread... had to go to the BOTTOM of the thread then come back to the top of thread to read down... then go backwards in order to read them in order... then go to the bottom to add a comment... THIS is ridiculous... if you don't start at the top and go down you are missing some of the comments... I HATE THIS...

    Oh well... the roses are PRETTY... I just wish they would fix the NEW "broken" way to look at a thread.... It would be different if you were just looking at the thread once... but now you have to TRY and find where you finished reading the first time and then start somewhere in the middle and go backwards from there because otherwise you aren't reading the thread in POSTED order...


    ac91z6 thanked sharon2079
  • Dillybeansown (6b in the Ozarks)
    3 years ago

    So many beauties! I, too, wish that Paul Barden‘s roses were not so hard to come by. I don’t believe that I have ever seen Song of the Stars before! What an unusual lovely one!

    ac91z6 thanked Dillybeansown (6b in the Ozarks)
  • Paul Barden
    3 years ago

    A recent snapshot of 'Dakota Redwing'.



    Its not my best rose (Blackspots too easily for my liking) but the color is magnificent, and it has a decent fragrance too.

    ac91z6 thanked Paul Barden
  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    3 years ago

    Wow, Paul! I don't see the white marks on mine and it doesn't have BS here. The color is magnificent!

    ac91z6 thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • Deborah MN zone 4
    3 years ago

    All this Barden rose talk led me to Rogue Valley Roses where I was pleased to see a lot of Barden’s in stock. So pleased that I ordered 12!

    ac91z6 thanked Deborah MN zone 4
  • Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
    3 years ago

    WOW, they are all amazing and very beautiful. I love Dakota esp the colour . All the pics are amazing.

    I only know that Mel's heritage grows well here . So if there is a list of Paul Barden 's roses that grow well here ( FL ) pls let me know. Hint, hint.... ..

    Thank you !!

    jin

    ac91z6 thanked Plumeria Girl (Florida ,9b)
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    Still waiting in suspense to hear what you ordered, Deborah! : )

  • Deborah MN zone 4
    3 years ago

    I thought you would never ask.

    Gallicandy™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Fara Shimbo™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Dakota Redwing

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Crested Damask™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Connie Lohn™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Barbara Oliva™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Incantation™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Nightmoss™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Oshun™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Rook™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Siren's Keep™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band

    Treasure Trail™

    • Size: 3"x3"x6" Band



  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    I'm so considering Fara Shimbo and Gallicandy from Peter. Then I'd have to decide on a third as that's what he'll ship for $20. Frankly, he has at least six I want so it might be two boxes! : )) I've really wanted wichmoss. hmmmm. However, it is rare that DRW which I've wanted since I first saw it is in stock at the same time as Oshun and Rook at RVR. I guess I need to check my list. Treasure Trail is such a darling. You are a bad influence. I wasn't going to get any more for a while. What is wrong with us?

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Deborah MN zone 4
    3 years ago

    Obsession, I guess.

  • bluesanne
    3 years ago

    I am utterly smitten with Song of the Stars. Besotted! Wouldn't you know, it is out of stock at RVR. Is there anywhere else I can get this (other than RVR's waiting list)?

    ac91z6 thanked bluesanne
  • Mikee Saitoh
    3 years ago

    The pictures are all beautiful! <3

    ac91z6 thanked Mikee Saitoh
  • Paul Barden
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    "I am utterly smitten with Song of the Stars. Besotted! Wouldn't you know, it is out of stock at RVR. Is there anywhere else I can get this (other than RVR's waiting list)?"

    Sadly, no. There is no other nursery I know of that has dared to add 'Song of The Stars' to their catalog. What climate zone are you in?

    ac91z6 thanked Paul Barden
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    Why "dared"? I'd think they'd be flocking to share some of these beauties.

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Paul Barden
    3 years ago

    "Why "dared"? I'd think they'd be flocking to share some of these beauties."


    Because:

    1) Its difficult to propagate: suckers only.

    2) Its slow to grow into a saleable size.

    3) Once-blooming OGRs are a hard sell in general.

    4) its not a good idea to have many relatively obscure OGRs in a catalog because you're only going to sell 10 or 15 plants a year, and if they are hard to propagate too, that makes it a much less attractive choice for a nurseryman.

    ac91z6 thanked Paul Barden
  • jerijen
    3 years ago

    But then, there are things like 'Mel's Heritage' -- which are unalloyed loveliness.


    After blooming through December, this is the spring bloom. Began in late April or early May, and continued into early June . . .


    Then, it came into bloom again in July, and is continuing into August. Blooms are paler, after some hot weather -- but just as ample and fragrant:

    ac91z6 thanked jerijen
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    You're killin' me with those pics! Even if mine never climbs in my zone, I can't wait to see those flowers and hopefully it will bloom as much. : ) Thank you, Paul for that explanation.

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Paul Barden
    3 years ago

    Jeri, I’m envious. It doesn’t do that well herein my climate! If I’m remembered for nothing else but this rose, that’s okay by me :-)

    ac91z6 thanked Paul Barden
  • sabalmatt_tejas
    3 years ago

    ‘Dakota Redwing’ has grown very well in my S Central TX garden. It’s now 7’ tall, has been healthy and free from black spot in my conditions. ‘Mel’s Heritage’ has been a happy grower and very heat tolerant also.

    ac91z6 thanked sabalmatt_tejas
  • Kimberly zone 10 so cal
    3 years ago

    does anyone have information or know where i can find joyce barden? rvr has been out of stock and i can't find it anywhere else. i desperately want this rose, along with golden buddha, jeri jennings, and janet inada, all of which are out of stock at rvr! i've searched everywhere!

    ac91z6 thanked Kimberly zone 10 so cal
  • Lisa Adams
    3 years ago

    I’m sorry that I can’t help you find those roses, Kimberly. I just have to say that if you can grab Golden Buddha, do so! It’s one of the very few roses that actually stays compact in So CA. I adore mine. It blooms constantly, too. Lisa

    ac91z6 thanked Lisa Adams
  • jerijen
    3 years ago

    Paul, believe me, I sympathize -- because there are so many roses that struggle or fail in my conditions.

    Winters too mild. Too much fog. Dry, infertile sandy soil. Alkaline water. I'll never succeed with Gallicas, or Hybrid Chinas, or Rugosas, or anything Multiflora-based.

    That's why I so treasure the roses that DO do well here.

    'Mel's Heritage' "stinks up" the whole neighborhood -- that wonderful fragrance and those masses of bloom.

    ac91z6 thanked jerijen
  • ac91z6
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    I have a 'Jeri Jennings' I got from Angel Gardens in Florida. I don't know if she'd have any others; I haven't even looked there this year because I was trying to get my pot ghetto all in the ground. Well, that plan went to pot (literally; I still have the same number or more!) after I ordered from Northland a second time.


    In my defense, I was getting 'Lunar Mist' come hell or high water (and have we ever seen high water!). First one didn't make it (probably my fault as it sat in the garage for more than a week) but second one looks great!


    I know another nursery (Rose Petals? Long Ago Roses?) has 'Siren's Keep' listed, but Paul Barden posted here on pics of a plant from them that he doesn't think it's 'Siren's Keep' but an unnamed gallica hybrid he gave RVR.


    JeriJen, I just might have to try 'Mel's Heritage' here in z6! Think he'd be happy sprawling on a metal roof?

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    I'll let you know! Cynthia commented on this rose and didn't think it would climb in my zone, but we shall see! He's just a youngin' at the moment and won't be big enough to go in ground until next year. I'm just now potting him up.

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • jerijen
    3 years ago

    ac91z6 -- Remember, 'Mel's Heritage' is too tender for Paul at his Oregon location.


    ac91z6 thanked jerijen
  • Paul Barden
    3 years ago

    @ac91z6:

    'Mel's Heritage' is bred from very tender varieties, and is not tolerant of harsh winters at all. Unless protected in a very sheltered location, I doubt the rose would maintain wood through winters in a USDA 6 climate, sorry.

    ac91z6 thanked Paul Barden
  • ac91z6
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I don't think he'd even survive at my house, but I might be able to convince my parents to let me plant him out there - he could against the western wall of a (BIG) shed, or the southern wall of a brick house.

    I really shouldn't though; I have enough to tend in my pot ghetto. If I keep repeating that, it WILL sink in, right?


    Edited to say: I think 'Mel's Heritage' is in stock more often than any of your other roses, Paul. Does it root well? This order I'll worry more about getting those that don't seem to be in stock nearly as often.

  • jerijen
    3 years ago

    I think it must root pretty well, because the Heritage has propagated it for fund-raising, and it seems to do well for them.


    ac91z6 thanked jerijen
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 years ago

    It does, Jeri! That's why I'm willing to give it a go even if it has to come back from nubbings in the Spring.

    ac91z6 thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • Lisa Adams
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I agree that Mel’s Heritage roots easily. One of MH’s canes was covered with soil by a pesky gopher, digging on the slope. We had ample spring rain for once this year. I went to cut that cane back, and discovered it had rooted to the ground and made a new plant with zero help from me. It’s the first time a gopher has actually given me a new rose bush, instead of taking one away! Lol. I definitely didn’t have the space for another Mel’s Heritage to grow in that spot, and had planned to remove it. My “bonus daughter” Sarah was over for a visit and asked if she could dig it up and take it home. I was happy to have her do the digging job for me. It was much easier than expected, since it hadn’t rooted very deeply yet. I’ll have to ask her how Mel’s Heritage jr. is doing at her place. I know she was nervous about telling her husband that the long established bougainvillea covering a huge wall/fence would need removing. She’s seen how mine has grown over the years, and knows that’s the only suitable place she has. She was extremely happy to get my “happy accident” Mel’s Heritage.

    Mel’s Heritage has a special place in Sarah’s heart, and not just because it’s my favorite rose of all time. When she tragically lost her mother a few years back, we held her mom’s memorial on the beach in Del Mar. I cut and arranged the flowers the morning of the memorial. This was in mid-November. The only rose I had an abundance of for cutting and filling large vases was Mel’s Heritage. There were plenty of those luscious blooms in November. I used Mel’s Heritage exclusivity for her mom’s service. She now associates the sight and scent of Mel’s Heritage with her mother, in a good way. It’s a special rose to us in so many ways.

    So, I just made a novel out of saying, “Yes, Mel’s Heritage roots very easily.” It’s the only rose that’s ever done that here. Lisa


    5/19

    11/2017

    ac91z6 thanked Lisa Adams
  • jerijen
    3 years ago

    That's a pretty wonderful "novel." :-) I think I need to get DH to propagate some, this year, for HRG to sell.

    These were picked yesterday, and I'll enjoy them for a few more days.


    ac91z6 thanked jerijen
  • Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b
    last year

    Has anyone gotten Connie Lohn or seen it available from RVR? I haven't seen it but also have only been looking for it for a few months, do you guys know if it's still propagated there? Thanks!

  • Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
    last year
    last modified: last year

    No help here for you, Aaron, from here sadly.

    Deborah in Minnesota, I so love your Umbra. I need this plant.

    Here is another one of Paul's, Diablo Hawk.




    The color is absolutely gorgeous. RVR is the source.

  • Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b
    last year

    I have Diablo Hawk! I've never seen it in bloom though :) really excited about it!!

  • ann beck 8a ruralish WA
    last year

    Thank you all who posted here!!! Even HMF has very little info on Barden roses and I hate that RVR doesn't have reviews or anything on most roses. I debated on golden buddha, jeri jennings, and janet inada (with very little information to decide on) .....but I so want Joyce Barden...love, love the look...has yet to be in stock at RVR.

  • Paul Barden
    last year

    @Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b How long have you had your plant of 'Diablo Hawk'?

  • portlandmysteryrose
    last year
    last modified: last year

    Aaron, congratulations on your DH! I am waitlisted.

    Ann, I’m not too far from you, in Portland, and just got a young Jeri Jennings from a local rose friend who received a spare with his order. JJ looks like she is going to be a wonderful Hybrid Musk for my arch. Her clusters of blooms are buttery golden-yellow with peach edges and what I’d call a sweet licorice fragrance. GORGEOUS! Joyce B looks like a fantastic rose, too. If only I could grow them all! I’d love to see pics if you get JB.

    Carol

    Jeri Jennings




  • portlandmysteryrose
    last year

    And I’m LOVING Dakota Redwing! A big thank you to Paul for breeding this velvet beauty with an incredible fragrance, and a thank you to Sheila who posted seductive photos of hers!!


  • Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b
    last year

    Hi @Paul Barden--it's a baby! I got it from RVR earlier this summer. It may have had a bloom on it when I first got it, but it's hard for me to recall. Really excited about it! Do you know if Connie Lohn will make a return? It's so pretty and I'm really hoping to get at least one mossed rose in my garden.

  • Paul Barden
    last year

    @Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b I hope you got the correct rose! Sadly, RVR has a problem with labeling their inventory, as we know. I just hope yours is correct.

    As for 'Connie Lohn', I have no idea if RVR still has it. It doesn't ever appear to be "in stock", so who knows. My two plants were destroyed in the 2015 Vortex, so its gone from my collection.

  • Aaron Rosarian Zone 5b
    last year

    Hi @Paul Barden--that's truly sad to hear! I can't imagine what it's like having created such beautiful things and them possibly being lost forever. @Deborah MN zone 4 how is your Connie Lohn doing? If you still have it, do you think you might be able to offer cuttings back to Paul?

  • Deborah MN zone 4
    last year

    Aaron, I don’t have Connie Lohn. I moved from Kentucky to Minnesota last July and left several Barden roses behind.