22 "sparks of divinity" charged with horrific murders in L.A.

Carro

Gosh, I hope we don't violate their "basic human rights". I hope they all got Hillary's memo about not opening their doors and recording the cars and license plates when the ICE men commeth!


"LOS ANGELES – An investigation by federal and local authorities has resulted in a federal racketeering case that charges 22 people linked to the MS-13 transnational gang, most of whom allegedly participated in a series of murders, including several slayings in which victims were hacked to death with machetes in the Angeles National Forest.

A 12-count indictment unsealed Monday afternoon alleges that members and associates of the gang murdered seven people over the last two years. The indictment charges gang leaders who allegedly authorized and coordinated the murders. Also charged are gang members who allegedly murdered and attempted to murder rival gang members, those who were perceived to be cooperating with law enforcement, and, in one instance, a homeless man who was temporarily living in a park controlled by the gang.

The indictment focuses on a particularly violent subset of the gang known as the Fulton clique, which operates in the San Fernando Valley and has recently seen an influx of young immigrants from Central America. Under the influence of these young gangsters, younger associates who wanted to become members of MS-13 were “required to kill an MS-13 rival or someone perceived to be adverse to MS-13 to be initiated into MS-13,” according to the indictment.

In one murder detailed in the indictment, several MS-13 members allegedly targeted a rival gang member who was believed to have defaced MS-13 graffiti. On March 6, 2017, according to the indictment, the rival gang member was abducted, choked, and driven to a remote location in the Angeles National Forest, where six people attacked him with a machete. The victim was dismembered, and his body parts were thrown into a canyon after one of the defendants allegedly cut the heart out of the victim’s body.

The indictment also contains allegations that the six VICAR murders were committed “in an especially heinous, cruel, or depraved manner in that [they] involved torture or serious physical abuse to the victim.” The 16 defendants charged in relation to those six murders are eligible for the federal death penalty, although the government has not indicated whether it will seek such a sentence for any of the defendants if they are convicted. "

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Ziemia(6a)

Another?

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Carro

One victim defaced MS-13 graffiti, and he was hacked to death, dismembered and his heart cut out, while another was an innocent homeless man who happened to be on their "turf"


Yeah, another one and expect more.

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Stan Areted

Welcome, torturers and murderers, welcome, all are welcome--Democrat Party.

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Carro

Welcome and walk right in! It's their "basic human right" to just waltz across our border and not be detained. Who needs to figure out if homicidal gang members are entering America and living among us?

Nah, we don't need no stinkin' detention!

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Ziemia(6a)

lame

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Carro

Pelosi's Pilgrims.

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Carro

Let's not deport them if they have children. No families should be separated!

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HU-219136540

Why two threads on the exact same topic?

I wish I had unlimited amounts of time to search the internet for obscure news articles.

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Chi

Distraction, distraction, distraction! Maybe abortion will be next.

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Kathy

M13 have been here for years no different than the homegrown RW terrorist extremists. How will they be addressed as long as Trump keeps encouraging them? All of them need to be addressed by LE. None of them should be tolerated.

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Carro

Wow, Kathy, you have zero understanding of MS-13 and appear unfamiliar with their crime syndicates.

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HU-219136540

Yeah we haven't had an anti abortion rant in a while.

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mrskjun(9)

Wow, vicious heinous murders are obscure news items. Still doesn't explain why you were happy with Obama's deportations but now you want open borders? Anyone?

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Ziemia(6a)

MS-13 hide and live in immigrant communities - the majority of whom are here legally. But not all. They have been important to LE's work to find the victimizers.

However, Trump and his base have made it so it's harder for them to trust the system. So the reporting of crimes and willingness to testify is drying up.

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Carro

Ziemia(6a)

MS-13 hide and live in immigrant communities

This is laughable. No, they do not. They live in the most affluent counties in America.

How unbelievable to make excuses for their gang violence and crimes. What? If we were only nicer they wouldn't sell drugs, commit armed robbery and hack people to death?

Dear God...

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Kathy

Carro, perhaps it is you who is unfamiliar.

Trump has claimed that the “weak illegal immigration policies of the Obama Admin allowed bad MS 13 gangs”—one wonders what the good MS 13 gangs might look like—“to form in cities across the US.”

Untrue.

MS-13 began more than 20 years before Obama became president, and it didn’t form in the cities.

It started in California prisons.

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maifleur01

Some how these gangs remind me of the way the Hells Angels operated. Before the Hells Angels there were other groups. Apparently they have been forgotten. If there is a vacuum in the criminal structure another group will organize and fill in. Better to try and prevent the worst that they can do rather than glorify them by continually mentioning them. It is not so much out of sight out of mind but there is a part of humans that want to be noticed. No notice the less the groups can recruit.

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Carro

Oh, no, I'm not going to be silences because somehow, speaking of MS-13 and their violence enables the problem. Nope. Not going to keep quiet and btw, there is no amount of noticing that will make a difference.

Americans need to be informed of the dangers that lurk around them.

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Carro

Kathy, Obama's "unaccompanied minors" policy increased the gang activity and in areas like mine, saw a resurgence. In particular, gang murders.

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soupgirl53

Proof, please.

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Kathy

Deporting undocumented people who commit crimes in the United States is the kind of policy that tends to get wide bipartisan support, even from people who are relatively sympathetic to immigration reform. The Obama administration deported such people at a record clip. But while the optics are certainly better than deporting hard-working families who are law-abiding aside from their immigration status, deporting “bad hombres,” as Trump memorably put it, is not without consequences. In fact, past rounds of this kind of deportation are in part driving much of the migration into the U.S. today.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/02/deporting-criminals-to-central-america-helped-cause-the-same-violence-that-todays-migrants-are-fleeing.html


Carro, I don’t know if you are interested in learning the truth or only want to blame Obama. Only one choice will help solve the problem.

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maifleur01

Of course the gangs have increased because of all of the free advertising that they are receiving. Most young people want to believe they are tougher than they are and most people of all ages want to be in a popular group.

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Ziemia(6a)

Carro, in the neighborhood across a small river from mine, is one of the poorer sections of the county.

The rest of what I wrote - you also missed, based on this reply to me:

I make and made zero excuses for their crimes.

I pointed out that they are increasingly difficult to identify and to get witnesses.

*****

In case part of my comment confused you - most of the immigrants living in these areas around me are legal immigrants. Some of the MS-13 members are even legal immigrants.

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Ziemia(6a)

What inspired this comment? Something deleted?


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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

dear people of the US


look around you and avoid following dangers which kill so many of your loved ones:


corn syrup


sugary soft drinks


Hamberders and other fast food


huge, even biggly packs of ice cream


read meat


not walking



-----

from a statistical point of view, chances are much higher that you/ your DH DW, MIL, DD, DS... die from a heart attack or diabetes



there are probably some statistics somewhere showing that gangs mostly feel scary


crappy food on the other hand is far deadlier, just numbers-wise,



but then for those scare tactics fast food doesn't really work , does it...

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Carro

Drinking soda and getting your heart cut out of your chest. Same same.

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linaria_gw(zone 7 (about))

just for the record


no excuse for criminals



but just look at the numbers, they will tell you where the real problems are


and where mostly perceived dangers are





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Jess

The righties don't believe these people are children of god?

Is that because they aren't white?

The FBI/DOJ has declared home grown white supremacist "christians" to be the biggest threat to Americans today, in 2019

Are they children of god?

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Carro

but just look at the numbers, they will tell you where the real problems are


and where mostly perceived dangers are

I'll remember that the next time a hacked-up gang member is found by a parent in a park.

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Carro

Pelosi's got them all speechifying about God and Jesus and the Gospels. Really, profoundly ironic.

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Ziemia(6a)

Carro, have you shared info on all that MS-13 activity near you?

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artemis_ma

This is why we need a RATIONAL plan for dealing with the immigration problem at our border.

Many of those asking for asylum are FLEEING MS-13.

Things are more complicated than the Either/Or stuff promulgated by both the far left or the far right.

I don't have the answer, or even a set of answers... but let's get cracking on getting experts together to deal with these problems, without blaming the Republicans or the Democratic party.


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Ziemia(6a)

The 2013 proposed legislation & agreed to by both parties in the Senate is a good place to start.


Parts have been proposed again since then.

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blfenton

Good job by the FBI, LAPD and the county sheriffs department.

MS13 from wikipedia, which I believe has been shared before

Political discourse

MS-13 has been a theme in the Republican Party's, in particular President Donald Trump's,[59][60][61][62] discourse during political campaigns and debates on immigration.[63][64][65][66]Republicans have accused Democrats of being responsible for violence by MS-13 gangs and have called for stricter immigration policies to deal with MS-13.[63] Republican politicians have argued that sanctuary cities (jurisdictions which do not prioritize enforcement of immigration law) contribute to MS-13 activity,[67][68] however studies on the relationship between sanctuary status and crime have found that either sanctuary policies do not affect crime or that they decrease crime rates.[69][70][71]

During the Trump administration, MS-13 became a top priority for the Department of Justice.[72] Trump has falsely claimed that towns have been "liberated" from MS-13 rule during his presidency.[72][73] In 2018, Trump falsely claimed on multiple occasions that his administration had deported "thousands and thousands" of MS-13 gang members.[74][75] In justifying the Trump administration's implementation of a family separation policy of migrants accused of crossing the border illegally, Kirstjen Nielsen, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, said that child migrants were being used by MS-13 to cross the US-Mexico border; there is no evidence that MS-13 members have falsely claimed custodianship of children crossing the U.S. border.[76]

A number of Republican politicians, including President Trump, have falsely accused Democrats of supporting MS-13[77][71][78][79][80][64] or shielding MS-13 gang members from deportation.[81][82]

In the United States, there were an estimated 10,000 MS-13 gang members in 2018, showing stable membership numbers for more than a decade. The gang accounts for less than 1 percent of total gang members in the United States (1.4 million according to FBI data), and a similar share of gang murders.[83][84] The Trump administration has stated that there is a "surge in MS-13 gang members" and that weak immigration enforcement contributes to greater MS-13 crime activity; there has been no evidence to corroborate either of those claims.[85][86][76][30]

black bold is mine

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blfenton

Are they an active violent gang - yes they are like any other gang.

But LA police are working to limit their numbers

Despite the recent surge in bloodshed, MS-13’s standing in Los Angeles has weakened somewhat. Last year, then-Police Chief Charlie Beck told The Times the gang had between 700 and 800 members active within the city, compared to approximately 1,000 in 2011. Beck said the gang was not among the five most active in the city, but stressed he still considered them a threat.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-16/ms-13-committed-gruesome-killings

trump has made the MS13 the bogeyman of gangs. The wikipedia article also pointed out the their immigrant numbers were doing but have risen over the past 3 years. Wikipedia is easily found

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catkinZ8a


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Carro

catkin, ya think Pelosi will invite those sparks of divinity to her vineyard for dinner?

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elvis

maifleur01

Of course the gangs have increased because of all of the free advertising that they are receiving. Most young people want to believe they are tougher than they are and most people of all ages want to be in a popular group.

Ah. So if we stop talking about gangs, they'll just go away. Gee, will that work with all societal problems? By all means, then, let's not talk about racism.

You're probably right about MS-13 young people, they're just acting tough. Why not foster one or two in your home?

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Carro

They're God's children, elvis. Who wouldn't want God's children sleeping in the room next to yours?

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catkinZ8a

They probably work in her vineyards.

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maifleur01

They will never go away but they will draw less new members. That is just the way most clubs are. While 13 is a violent club at its base it is a club and right now for younger people who see joining as a way to "be somebody" it is attractive.

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elvis

The new boy band to play at the Democrat Convention. They are called Sparks of Divinity.


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Olychick

How awful for the people fleeing countries where this type of activity is going undeterred. We should prosecute anyone involved in this kind of activity and deport any non-citizens found to be a part of it.

We should also try to provide safe haven for those affected as victims of these horrendous gangs.

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