Query: Just who are the Trumpsters?

dublinbay z6 (KS)

This is a serious question. I just read on one of the threads that one of our more prominent Trumpsters claims he is NOT a Republican. I seem to remember at least one other poster not too long ago also saying pretty much the same thing.

So, if Trumpsters are not members of the official two big parties, where did they come from?

Are they T-partiers who are now centering all their allegiance with Trump? Or going back even earlier, are they left-over Ross Perot supporters who have been free-floating for some time but finally found a home with Trump?

One group I'm certain they do not claim for their ancestry is the evangelicals since, as a couple of these non-Republican Trumpsters have insisted, they are not religious at all.

Maybe they have been fringing around some white superiority groups and saw Trump as their chance to finally enter the mainstream with him?

Any one else have any ideas from where the Trumpsters came? I just don't believe they are an entirely new group that suddenly sprung into existence in 1915-16. They are too well-informed (especially on passive-aggressive tactics against opponents) to be naïfs who just awoke (politically) a couple years ago.

They must have a history.

Kate

ETA: I'm excluding conservatives as an answer also--since Trumpster's don't believe in or practice fiscal restraint and other such conservative commitments. Trump's tax cut for the super rich is the exact opposite of fiscal restraint, after all.

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foodonastump

They’re “independents” just like many on the left.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

They always have been independents? Were they politically active before Trump? No allegiance or affiliation with any group? Just a lone individual with strong political beliefs he did not act on until Trump came along?

Kate

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lurker111

I'm a non voter, in case you're wondering. The only person I've ever voted for is John Kerry. I will vote for Trump in 2020. I don't care if they call me 20 times for jury duty, it's worth it.

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Chi

I think some people just don't like being categorized. My husband is VERY liberal, even more than I am, and he's an independent. He would never vote for a Republican.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

lurker, I'm curious. Why would you vote for John Kerry? He isn't at all like Trump.

Kate

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lurker111

Peer pressure. I wasn't going to vote, I never supported Kerry, but I had to keep the peace.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

“ I don't care if they call me 20 times for jury duty, it's worth it.”

Jury duty is a privilege.

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lurker111

Jury duty is a privilege.

Not when the city and county use it as a tool to punish you for complaining to city officials about the frats trashing your yard.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Hmmm...in our neck of the woods, they use largely driver's licenses to call people to jury duty and it's at random....

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lurker111

Yeah, right.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

I believe lurker is from Texas:

Jury Summons Each county receives a list of potential jurors from the Secretary of State that consists of those individuals in the county that are registered to vote, hold a Texas driver's license, or hold a Texas identification card.


so yes, Annie, anyone with a drivers license can be summoned.

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jama7(6)

Sorry Lurker. Not true. Feel free to Google.

Texas law

"Be at least 18 years of age. Be a citizen of this state and a resident of this city in which you are to serve as a juror. Be qualified under the Constitution and laws to vote in the county in which you are to serve as a juror (Note: You do not have to be registered to vote to be qualified to vote)"

I believe that's a typo at the end and should read serve.

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jama7(6)

I hadn't registerd to vote yet in CO yrs ago and was called and served.

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Ziemia(6a)

I don't consider myself a Democrat.

I've been a registered voter as Independent forever. (It became easier to do once local regs allowed you to vote in either primary as an Independent and also allowed instant re-registering as one after voting.

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Chi

Same in California. I had to serve a 3 week trial before I even registered to vote here.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

(not a typo jama. It doesn't matter of you are registered to vote, only that you are qualified to vote in order to be eligible for jury duty.)

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mudhouse

Kate, I think Trump supporters are registered Republicans, independents, and probably some registered Democrats. Some were Bernie supporters. Some were Hillary voters. Some were Bush voters. Some consider themselves conservatives, some consider themselves liberal. Some are evangelical, and some are not religious.

I don't think Trump supporters are a monolithic group, at all, and maybe that's why you're having a hard time figuring out "where they came from." People change all the time, and vote based on how well the candidate suits their preferences at the time.

I think the diversity of the backgrounds of Trump supporters is part of the strength of his support.

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cait1

Are you using 'Trumpster' as a pejorative? Like 'dumpster'?

Emily said we couldn't do that.

But I'll also reply to your OP.

Why does anybody have to belong to anything?

Why can you not divest yourself from this need to put people in boxes?

If you could actually understand that 'people' are composed of INDIVIDUALS you wouldn't have to ask such a question just to label INDIVIDUALS who support Trump with a disparaging term.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

No, Cait. I did not mean 'Trumpster' like 'dumpster.' 'Dumpster' did not even remotely cross my mind. It is just easier to write 'trumpster' than it is to write "a person who supports Trump." Actually, I think I thought it was kind of cute--you know, cheerleaders for Trump, or something like that.

Have you ever considered that perhaps you sometimes read in pejoratives where none was intended?

As to the other questions by several posters, you are missing why I asked about the origins or history of Trump voters. On another post, a pro-Trump voter (Lurker, if I remember correctly) stated that he was not a Republican--which surprised me, but then I remembered sometime earlier one or more Trump supporter denying that he/she was religious and stating that he/she wasn't interested in social issues (like abortion or same sex marriage). By my own observations, Trump voters are not particularly interested in things like deficits (since they support Trump's tax cuts for the super rich).

That got me to wondering where Trump supporters come from if they are not Republicans nor evangelicals nor conservatives. I realize voters can come from all over, but I'm asking where a majority of them come from--and why.

You are trying really hard to turn my questions into insults, Cait, but tough luck. I really was "just curious." Everyone has a history of some kind and I realized that if Republican/evangelical/conservative are eliminated as major sources, then I have no idea where Trump supporters came from.

I thought I might get some serious answers. Lurker, thanks for your honest and non-abrasive response.

Kate


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Carro

cait asked a legit question and then took the time to respectfully answer your query, kate. If you wanted to show us the same respect you wish in return, go through the trouble of using "Trump supporters" instead of the pejorative, "Trumpsters".

It's a matter of a couple keystrokes.

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Annie Deighnaugh

See: https://verdict.justia.com/2018/02/16/trumps-base-broadly-speaking

Trumplicans were largely white, male, non-college educated and older with key issues being immigration and terrorism. Of independents, representing about 31% of voters, they were largely split with 48% for trump and 42% for clinton. They're the group the winning candidate has to sway. The dems and gop are largely entrenched.

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Stan Areted

Why can you not divest yourself from this need to put people in boxes?

That's a YUGE problem.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Carro--you didn't bother to read the rest of my post above, did you. I very carefully avoided using "Trumpster" in the 5 paragraphs that followed the opening paragraph where I discussed why I had used "Trumpster" in the past and I assured Cait that it was not intended to insultingly refer to "Dumpster."

I then went out of my way in the following 5 paragraphs to NOT use "Trumpster"---so what do you do, Carro. Scold me for using "Trumpster" when, in fact, I did not and intentionally avoided using "Trumpster." So much for making an effort to please you folks. Just got me the BIG SCOLD!

By the way, I abbreviate most posters names--ask Paprika who didn't like me calling him "Pap" (though he doesn't seem to object to others calling him that), so I asked him if Paprika was OK. He said yes. Usually I reduce names to 2 to 4 or 5 letters at most.

OK--who else wants to get mad at me now? This is your day to snarl at me--whether I say anything or not. Or is it, whether I say anything nice or not.

Kate

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Annie Deighnaugh

Wait, what?

If you wanted to show us the same respect you wish in return, go through the trouble of using "Trump supporters" instead of the pejorative, "Trumpsters".

I thought it was the left who were busy defining every sign, term and burp into anti-free speech intimidation...


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Annie, thank you for the information, but it isn't quite getting at what I'm wondering. Like who were these people or where were they before they became Trump followers? Like Lurker, were they just not involved in politics at all?

It's like they are mushrooms. Nothing there, and then suddenly one day, mushrooms popping up all over the place. Surely Trump followers existed before Trump came on the scene. Or Trump woke up millions of people who had been sleeping through the political scene most of their lives and suddenly they were Trump activists? What was in their background that made them fertile ground when Trump suddenly appeared on the scene?

Before Trump--is what I'm trying to get at.

Gotta go to dental appointment. Be back later.

Kate

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HU-219136540

Oh Kate now you are gonna get *schooled* for calling them mushroom-like. Maybe use *fun-guy*. Who doesn't want to be a *fun-guy*?

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wasabirobby

I am a Trump supporter. I grew up poor. My mother was one of 11 children with a coal-miner father, and no social services. We were Democrats. We worked very hard, and expected nothing for free. We never ate in a restaurant, never went on vacation, had no music or dance lessons, no swimming lessons. I think that the definition of poverty has changed. We weren't jealous of people who had more. We just kept working, and now we are comfortable. I wonder where my white privilege was. I'm not a racist. I hired the black girl next door to babysit my children, and did not give a second thought to her color. I love what Trump is doing on economy, and my investments that we've worked so hard for are doing great. I'm against open borders,and it has nothing to do with skin color. I think it's bad for the working poor.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Wasabirobby--welcome to the forum.

Could you explain a bit more how and when and why you (and your family?) quit being Democrats and finally emerged as Trump supporters. It is the change-over that interests me.

Thanks.

Kate

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Annie Deighnaugh

Kate, there was this bundle of people who were sanders supporters and once sanders was out switched to trump...I guess looking for that populist sentiment. Apparently now biden seems to be the dem who can capture that bunch as well.

There are also apparently a slug of trump supporters who are only party over country or never dem-ers so would support trump no matter who the dems run. So while they may have preferred a moderate like kasich if he'd had a chance of winning, they went with trump anyway as he was the non-clinton.

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live_wire_oak

They are the anti-authoritarian authoritarians. No one is finna tell THEM what to do! Guldarn it, an we fought a war bout that! An I don’t just mean the Whiskey Rebellion. But just give them a smidgen of power, and they’ll sure tell OTHERS how to do things.

Think the nosy HOA president with the falling down shed in her back yard, and who cruises through on her illegal on the road golf cart handing out citations if your trash can is on the curb 20 minutes past the deadline. Willful blind spots about their own beams in their eyes is a prerequisite. As is being very pro active about others motes. When petty power is all you have, you grab it with gusto! You gotta be able to be better than somebody! And bygod, people better learn to act how I want them to act or there will be hell2pay when I get a chance. Dog in the manger. Stick it to the man! Make ‘em sorry bygod!

They are generally the economically disadvantaged folks who delude themselves into thinking that they will one day magically be one of the rich folks. Which is why so many buy lottery tickets and invest in the Nigerian prince. Fairy tales aren’t just for kids. They are the ones who live in 50K houses and waste car salesmen’s time dreaming at 80K new trucks. They are the ones buying 10K fixer upper mobile homes, “to get them by” and never fixing anything in them because it’s “just a temporary setback” until mah settlement comes in.

They are the ones who turn up their nose at education as “getting above your raising”. Anyone who has more learning than a high school education is suspicious. You can learn all you need to know by the 6th grade, and out into the workforce with you. Mama didn’t have all of them kids so as she could be the one waiting tables till she was 70. You better get busy and get some honest work that puts some blisters on your hands and buy mama her oxygen and Camels.Dont get no idears of fancy pantsing it. Its OK, even you do some of that technically dishonest work. It’s OK to be a criminal—-if you get away with it. Stealing a gun from your neighbors and growing a little medicinal use plants, or making 1000 gallons of “home brew” is admirable. It’s what a Rebel would do.

We’re all rebels! Just like everyone else. Yeehaw. Dontchoo tell ME what to do! I’ll do just the opposite, just to be Ornery. And I’ll lose $1 if I get a chance to stick it to somebody for a dime. I’ll twist that knife for free though. It’s misery, and stomping down them darker others that give tha best satisfaction. That means they are BENEATH me. I’m better than somebody, even if I got nuffin. I’m still better than a n_____ or a w______ or a K___. Being the biggest poo in the smallest bowl eases the self loathing for a while.

All direct words that I have heard from the land of the rebel flag and the supporters of the duplicitous supremacist who isn’t even speaking in thinly veiled codes anymore. The white underclass adore the fact that he tells them they are still better than some other scapegoat group to blame for their being an underclass. Gosh forbid if anyone looked really close at who those tax cuts and pork barrel executive orders benefitted.

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wasabirobby

We were old-time working poor Democrats, who thought that the Democrat party was for the poor people. I grew up thinking that because all of my relatives were Democrats. I think it was because some were Union laborers. However we were never pro-abortion. Of the 6 siblings, 4 voted for Trump, and 2 did not. The switch from Democrat was fairly recent for 2 of us, and a long time coming for,the other 2. We quit Democrat because we feel it is too far left, too liberal.

Thank you for welcoming me!

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lurker111

Be qualified under the Constitution and laws to vote in the county in which you are to serve as a juror

Exactly what I said. Register to vote and get in an argument with a city official and see what happens. I had to threaten to go the the Attorney Generals office to put and end to it. I haven't been summoned one time since then. They tried to spin it and say it was my DL because I removed myself from the voters list. No, I hadn't had a TDL for over 10 years at the time. Busted! :)

I believe that's a typo at the end and should read serve.

You are incorrect.

This went on for years. It wasn't a one time thing. It was long term harassment.

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Wants to Grow

Who are the Trump supporters? They are the electorate who are tired of being ignored and taken for granted in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. They are the liberty loving citizens who resent the never ending expansion of Federal government trying to regulate over our choices, such as education and healthcare. They are the voters who are disgusted by the broken promises given by either political party.

Trump supporters finally have a leader who fights back against the Washington Establishment. Expect to see another four years!

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Ziemia(6a)

I don't think it was about 'populist' candidates:

I think it was about voting for a rebel, an outsider.

I am "nit picking".

On the GOP list, Trump was the rebel.

On the other side there were 3 rebel candidates: Bernie, Johnson (pot smoking gov - Libertarian), and Stein (Green Party).

{Bill Weld, Johnson's VP, implored voters to not vote for Johnson - the race was so close that Hillary could lose.}

And because of the weaknesses of the Hillary campaign, some say many didn't vote who had voted in 2012.


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lurker111

Everyone who insulted Trump and acted like a child fell one by one as soon as they opened their mouths. "Little hands" did it for Marco. "Deplorables" did it for Hillary. Hit Trump and the country will hit back. Time to grow up and act like adults.

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queenmargo

Wants to Grow

Who are the Trump supporters? They are the electorate who are tired of being ignored and taken for granted in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. They are the liberty loving citizens who resent the never ending expansion of Federal government trying to regulate over our choices, such as education and healthcare. They are the voters who are disgusted by the broken promises given by either political party.

Trump supporters finally have a leader who fights back against the Washington Establishment. Expect to see another four years!


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Wants to Grow

Hi Margievank! Cheers!

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maifleur01

Wondering if the ones that fell were the ones that were attacked and not because what they said was wrong.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

They are the electorate who are tired of being ignored and taken for granted in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.


I guess that is why Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania went Blue 2018 mid-terms. They recognized their mistake, When you cannot recognize when you make a mistake is the worst thing that can happen in a person's life.


I would never do anything to make another person sad or hurt another in any way. That is not some thing a healthy mind thinks. I vote to make things better for me and mine.

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studio10001

lurker, …...except not everyone looks on tit for tat as an adult reaction, especially if returned name calling is the prerequisite. 45s entire campaign was almost equal parts that kind of slander and victimization. Wants brought out an interesting dichotomy - simultaneously complaining about being ignored, and also being victimized by government interference. Those two things do not exist simultaneously, but if a portion of voters express their dissatisfaction with conditions in such a way, T was your guy.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I'm still curious as to what Trump supporters were doing BEFORE Trump came along. Ignoring politics? or whom did they vote for and why--that left them so frustrated? How did they "find" Trump? Saw him being interviewed on TV or what?

Is Wasabirobby's story typical or not?

Kate

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lurker111

We knew that both sides were the same people and had bad plans for our country. Ignoring politics and focusing on much more important things? Yes. I would never vote just to vote against someone. I voted one time for someone I didn't support and will never do that again. I can support Trump, so I plan on voting for him. If it's the same old families passing the torch...I'll let the people decide. Obama is the only President that directly effected my life on a personal level by extorting money for Obamacare.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Thank you for sharing, Lurker.

Kate

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patriciae_gw(07)

Interesting question and nice that some people who support Trump are willing to say why.

Disaffected people who believe themselves to be marginalized and can some how convince themselves that the elitist wealthy privileged Donald Trump cares about them. That is the sad part to me since many of these people have a legitimate beef and this is not going to help. I know no one wants to hear that. Having hope snatched from your hand.

It is a symptom of the problem that so many people believe Trump is going to do something for them or even wants to.

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catkinZ8a

'This is a serious question.'


LOL.

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cait1

@ Magajack

I was a Ron Paul supporter before Trump.

Me, too! Welcome!

Was that what you were hoping for, Kate? To get some lurkers to come out?

Because the several Trump supporting long-term posters here have offered plenty of info as to who they are politically just by their comments in other threads.

People often change over time. I had definite war-hawk tendencies, which I am happy to say have completely evaporated. I don't even approve of sanctions since that 'act of war' always hurts the innocents of a country. I want the US out of NATO not only because the USSR doesn't exist anymore, but it's an organization looking for a war.

I would hope that all individuals will, over time, evaluate their personal principles and as they gain more experience and study, adjust them accordingly. First and foremost for Americans that should be towards LIBERTY and not Statism.

While reading the Federalists Papers would be a necessary step to understand how our 'federal' government is supposed to function and the intent of the Constitution's various articles/sections, a read of the Anti-Federalist Papers is equally important to understand the Constitution's failings. The Constitution has been around for 230 years now and that is plenty of time to understand where it has fallen short.

I'll even offer an example which has become quite prominent in our current political era.

The judiciary. And I'm not just writing about SCOTUS, but the federal courts which now dot our country.

Brutus' #15 should be read by everyone. Scholars generally agree that Brutus was Robert Yates, an Associate Justice of the New York Supreme Court, so who better to understand the failings of the Judicial Branch as constructed in the Constitution.

"But I say this system has followed the English government in this: while
it has departed from almost every other principle of their
jurisprudence under the idea of rendering the judges independent, which
in the British Constitution means no more than that they hold their
places during good behavior and have fixed salaries; they have made the
judges independent in the fullest sense of the word
."

And therein lies the problem. Except for impeachment, they cannot be relieved of their office and now mostly stay until they die or are near death.

Time and time again we see justices and judges overstepping their boundary to the point that they now actually enact law.

Through the courts' reinterpretation and expansion of meaning of clauses in the Constitution and its amendments, they have placed themselves above the will of the people. Black robed gods who care only for their opinions and hope that no one on 'their' side leaves so they can keep a 5-4 majority. Through their machinations they have stripped States' of their rights to determine such things as marriage and abortion.

And now they believe they can control and determine the duties of the executive branch and we have seen that again and again with regards to the illegal immigration problem.

As a co-equal partner of government, the Executive should just be able to say to the courts, 'That's not how I see it and it's my department so butt out." But instead, the Executive and Legislative branches now bow to the Black Robes.

Co-equal branches is a joke in our current political climate yet few take the time to even think about these things.

If the Executive is shackled when it comes to national security, which the illegal immigration crisis is, and the courts have stripped him of his ability to, "insure domestic Tranquility" and
"provide for the common defence", how much more so are We the People, who are supposed to have the final say over the government through our representatives, of which the Executive is one?

But few think anymore. So much easier to react.

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Carro

And therein lies the problem. Except for impeachment, they cannot be relieved of their office and now mostly stay until they die or are near death.

Time and time again we see justices and judges overstepping their boundary to the point that they now actually enact law.


We have a Congress who barely legislates any longer and this is why. They exploit the court and use them as conduits to issue fiats from non-elected, non-Representative judges.

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Carro

Great post, cait.

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mudhouse

I've always voted Republican, and I've always been conservative. I never saw any of Trump's TV shows, and never followed celebrities. I told my family Trump wouldn't run. He did. I listened. He said things I agreed with about things that concerned me. National security, American jobs, immigration, the courts, overregulation, trade deals, taxes, support for military and law enforcement, patriotism. He wasn't cowed by political correctness. I watched him fight and win the primaries. He fights hard.

I voted for him because the country was heading in the wrong direction, and nobody else seemed capable. I didn't think he'd win, but he did, and he's proving to be the right person at the right time. I'll vote for him again, and I think the Republicans should start looking now for more tough business people for future races. I'm tired of politicians who sound good and accomplish nothing (like most of the people in Congress.)

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queenmargo

Cait, how does one support a US political candidate when you live in another country?

ask our posters who live in other countries who lend their support to the left.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

My cousin, who is an enthusiastic Trump supporter, was also a GWB supporter — to the bitter end. He disliked Bill Clinton, and I never stuck around to hear what he had to say about Obama. He has been a devout Limbaugh listener for years. He tends to view the world as black-or-white; nuance is a non-starter. He’s very much an authoritarian, but willing to bend some rules for himself (nothing illegal). He is solidly middle class, a retired high school teacher and swim coach living in a conservative area of SoCal. He is definitely prejudiced against Mexicans.

It’s interesting to see his daughter, with her degree in US history, challenge his facts when he repeats Limbaugh.

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Ann Gale

Margie, that’s the beauty of an open forum. I can ask questions any way I’d like as long as they don’t violate the forum rules. If you’d like to ask others the same question, feel free ;)

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queenmargo

LOL Gayle Mail. Thanks for the last laugh of the night,,,,zzzzzz

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Ann

I've been a Republican for most of my life, but I did vote for Carter. Some Republicans I voted for with enthusiasm, others I didn't think had a chance (like McCain), but I still voted for them. I want small government and lots of personal choice.

Rubio was my choice in the last election, but Trump was the nominee. As a Republican and a conservative, there was no way Hillary was getting my vote (and likely never a Dem again for as long as I live, especially as they go further and further left). I had no clue what to expect from Trump, but I wonder if he'll be my favorite president of all time. He's such a true patriotic American who puts America first! I love his grit and his determination!

I'm a registered Independent now, but just to give me the opportunity to vote in the primary of my choosing.

I'm not religious at all, but I have great respect for those who are.

I think Trump's very likely to win in 2020 and, the way things kind of feel like they're turning of late, maybe even with a GOP Senate and House. I think the Dems have created a big mess for themselves in several ways and it's not going at all well for them. But, I've certainly been wrong before.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

I like live_wire's answer; most of that resonates with me. Generally Trump's followers are not well-educated, with an attitude that the world owes them something although they're not willing to do much to get it, easily convinced that others are doing better than they are and angry about it, and therefore readily convinced that someone must be at fault, looking for a scapegoat, easily influenced by a leader who seems to buy into that nonsense and who gives them "permission" to be angry and to attack blindly and without reason, since reason and logic are not their friends. Since they will follow a leader who lies, is amoral, cheats and steals, they themselves don't hold themselves to a high standard; the end always justifies the means. The educational system, which is by now deeply unsuccessful and flawed, has done nothing to truly educate them, and they lack the will and desire to inform and educate themselves, which makes them easy prey for a demagogue who promises them everything but gives them nothing. I think they may have always been primarily blue-collar Republicans, but fairly mindless ones who cling to the name and the trappings without really being invested in all of the underlying beliefs of that party.

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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

When I married the Dragon Woman many, many moons ago, my MIL told all and sundry that her daughter had married a communist. Lol

I know that you guys think you have the greatest Democracy on earth, but really what a lot of hocus pocus, just to vote. In dumb Australia we just have voters. In the last election because voting is compulsory the turnout was 91%.

I think the pattern that Ingrid describes applies here in that the University Graduates tend to vote Centre or slightly left of Centre


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dandyfopp

The very last thing the GOP wants is compulsory voting, they would be dust.


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Annie Deighnaugh

Obama is the only President that directly effected my life on a personal level by extorting money for Obamacare.

I have had all presidents directly affect my life...from the tax policies they enact to the financial regulations that impact the banking system, to the other regulations enforced by federal agencies. I remember the draft lottery, worrying about what number my brother would draw and whether or not he'd be drafted to Nam. We frequent antique car shows and the smells from the exhausts of the old cars can be overwhelming which we forget today due to epa regulations (an agency started under nixon) that have made them so much cleaner. My access to goods and services from overseas are directly affected by trade policies regulated by presidents. I remember the ramp up in phys ed we had in school a direct result of Kennedy's fitness program. I know people who have served in the middle east, a direct result of bush's war of choice and I've heard stories from those who have lost loved ones to suicide as a result.

But beyond the direct effects I've felt from each presidency, is the way his performance, his morality, his behavior, the words he says and the choices he makes shapes the character of the nation and the way it is viewed in the world...and the way I view our nation. It is in this realm that trump has had the biggest personal impact on me....on a daily basis.

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lurker111

uh huh

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Tilly Teabag

Arthurm

”I think the pattern that Ingrid describes applies here in that the University Graduates tend to vote Centre or slightly left of Centre”

Dunno for the near future, we have such a high proportion of Chinese and Indian university graduates now. Those that become citizens , who knows where they stand on politics? I know they want to make as much money as possible. Maybe conservative policies will suit them better?


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Tilly Teabag

Ann

”I'm not religious at all, but I have great respect for those who are.”

I hereby return the respect. I respect humanists that care for all people.

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mrskjun(9)

I started out not supporting either Trump or Hillary. But find myself, for the same reason I opposed Obama, policies, are the same reasons that I find myself supporting Trump, policies. I have accepted the fact that he can be brash and thin skinned. I also accept the fact that he has some innate sense of what makes the country better. I reject the notion that only the "uneducated" support him. He did well among college graduates if that is your criteria. As well as a percentage of those that voted for Obama, voted for Trump.

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paprikash

The Trump supporters I know are college educated, business owners or retired business owners, pilot, CPAs, lawyers, golf course owners, golf pros, teachers, doctors, beauticians, masseuses, etc.

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adoptedbyhounds

"We were old-time working poor Democrats, who thought that the Democrat party was for the poor people."

Sounds like the family I grew up in. I was taught that Democrats cared about the "little guy." I believed that, registered to vote as a Democrat, and for a time was confident that was the right thing to do.

As a young wife and mother, I worked in grocery chain bakeries, decorating cakes and doing other tasks. With the union contract I was fairly well paid for the work, which was often hard because of the number of orders needing to be filled in a limited number of hours. Some days I didn't have time for breaks and/or lunch.

I started questioning Democrats' "generosity" with taxpayer money when I learned customers were using food stamps to buy everything from custom decorated birthday cakes, to wedding cakes, to specialty breads for wedding receptions. It is preposterous that a "nutrition" program allows beneficiaries to purchase cakes, cookies, chips and soda.

We've had discussions on this forum many times about government forcing taxpayers to subsidize luxury purchases for other people. A familiar pattern emerges. Dems express their approval of redistributing money confiscated from some folks, in order to allow food stamp recipients to buy unnecessary items. The pattern continues, with Democrats routinely demonizing folks who disagree with how their money is being used.

I eventually changed my party affiliation to Republican. Until 2007 when John McCain and his establishment buddies tried to shove amnesty for illegal aliens down America's throat. That was the last straw, and what caused me to become an Independent (unaffiliated) voter.

The sense of entitlement and lack of gratitude from the illegal alien population, and establishment politicians' disregard for the well being of their own constituents have been on display since GW Bush took office, and called Americans concerned about their borders "vigilantes."

President Trump's job is to secure America for American citizens and legal residents, and he's working hard to make that happen.

Meanwhile, Democrats are setting up sanctuary cities and states to protect illegal aliens. It is Democrats coaching illegals on how to get away with ignoring court orders to leave the country.


The lack of concern for American citizens is no longer acceptable.


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lionheart_gw (USDA Zone 5A, Eastern NY)

"We were old-time working poor Democrats, who thought that the Democrat party was for the poor people. I grew up thinking that because all of my relatives were Democrats. I think it was because some were Union laborers. However we were never pro-abortion. Of the 6 siblings, 4 voted for Trump, and 2 did not. The switch from Democrat was fairly recent for 2 of us, and a long time coming for,the other 2. We quit Democrat because we feel it is too far left, too liberal."

Identity politics is the problem.

I forget who posited the idea - it was on a podcast of some sort - that the Democrats in particular appear to be searching for a constituency cheaper than the labor constituency. What's cheaper than identity politics?

People from various small groups could unite under the labor umbrella, but those people also want to participate and they expect results. Labor is messy in that regard.

Identity politics requires none of those things. It's simply an appeal to emotion. They get people on their side by whipping them into a self-pity frenzy. All they have to do is tell people they are alienated and soothe them with a co-dependent righteous outrage.

Obviously, Republicans do the same thing, but Democrats have made this an art form...a dangerous art form. Or, it may be more accurate to say that people who are attracted to this type of divisiveness will join the party that is offering it.

The thing about that is that the politicians who make hay by dividing us into "persecution camps" based on group identity also have to do nothing, accomplish nothing, to get elected. They simply pander to your baser instincts and tell you what you want to hear.

There is nothing healthy and fresh being promoted by either party, so the contrarians voted for a "screw you all and that horse you rode in on too" candidate. It's just that simple.

I think identity politics is an unhealthy pandering and I hope it ends soon. It could go very wrong.

Also, do NOT believe those people who want to lure you out with the bait of "discussion". It happens all too often that decent people like yourself will get bludgeoned the minute you're out in the open. You need to understand that it's a blood sport, and keep your own counsel if you don't want to be a target.

It's a bit like Mao's Hundred Flowers Campaign. ;)

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Annie Deighnaugh

The lack of concern for American citizens is no longer acceptable.

Would that were so, but

  • active steps to strip millions of Americans of healthcare with *no alternative policy in place*
  • threats to eliminate social security and medicare which is part and parcel of *every* American's retirement or retirement planning
  • flouting critical fundamentals of national security from filling his administration with paid foreign agents, compromised felons, and people who can't get security clearances, to giving away code-level info, open air strategy meetings at mar-a-lago, and his continued used of unsecured phones
  • over 3,000 deaths in Puerto Rico with no follow up as to how that happened or how to prevent a recurrence
  • punishing blue states by burdening them with higher taxes and telling, eg, California no more federal money for mismanaging forests *in federal lands* and telling them to get a rake
  • instead of working to secure our elections from russian hacking and ensuring the rights of *all* Americans to vote, he's dismantled the very agencies put in place to fight it, while the gop has secured the right to gerrymander and suppress votes for decades to come
  • telling American citizens to go back to where they came from
  • attacking the first amendment, going after the press and social media because he doesn't like what the sunshine shed on the dark corners of his administration reveals
  • bold-faced lying to the American public about *everything* from who pays for tariffs to passing the biggest tax cut in history and who benefits from it

It's clear to me that trump has -- more than a lack of concern -- a distain and malevolence toward all American citizens who don't support him.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I want to thank all the Trump supporters who have responded to my serious question about where they came from "before" Trump and how they came to join his ranks. I appreciate your honesty.

Kate

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I've been mulling over some of the above information and have come up with one explanation of where Trump followers, at least in many or some cases, came from. One thing that characterized the late 20th century/early 21st is the slow dissolution of the power and influence of the labor unions which once brought together under one large umbrella all sorts of poorer, hard working men and women. It was the labor unions that preached that the Democrats cared for the "little guy," but as the Repub. Party cut back on the influence of the unions, there was less "glue" to hold the workers together under the union banners. However, the Repub. Party didn't give much attention to those same hard workers either. Then along came Trump with a populist message (not that I think he really believed in it, but he was appealing directly to the disillusioned ex-union workers) and those same hard workers once again re-coalesced under the Trump banner. The fact that he was running on the Repub. ticket did not particularly interest them. They liked that he by-passed the Repub Party apparatus and spoke directly to the mass of workers via rallies and social media. So they aren't really Republicans in many cases, but rather followers of Trump the man who, entirely incidentally, runs as a Repub. but isn't really one either.

What do you think? Have I isolated one significant strand of the following of Trump?

Kate


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adoptedbyhounds

"They liked that he by-passed the Repub Party apparatus and spoke directly to the mass of workers via rallies and social media."

That's a really good observation, Kate. I hadn't quite thought of it that way, but at least for me, you have it right.

"So they aren't really Republicans in many cases, but rather followers of Trump the man who, entirely incidentally, runs as a Repub. but isn't really one either."

Not quite, Kate, but close. I waited a very long time for a presidential candidate to take my concerns about illegal immigration, open borders and imported crime and poverty seriously. It didn't have to be Trump. I just wanted SOMEBODY to acknowledge the damage being done to my country by the failure of politicians to secure our borders and to give a damn about who is here and why they have been allowed to stay illegally. I will add I had had a belly full of being told what I think and why I think the way I do. Very arrogant. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Oops! Big error in my OP where I said (but didn't mean) "I just don't believe they [Trump followers] are an entirely new group that suddenly sprung into existence in 1915-16. "

CORRECTION: wrong century--egads! Only 100 years off!

It should be "sprung into existence in 2015-16."

Mea culpa.

Kate

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mudhouse

Trump's use of Twitter, and his rallies, also bypasses the mainstream media. Trump's real message, the things he really believes (and has been saying for decades) would never have reached the broad audience of Americans if he had allowed his message to be filtered through the media, as most candidates have in the past.

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mudhouse

What do you think? Have I isolated one significant strand of the following of Trump?

Thanks Kate for phrasing your question this way. In my post up thread, you might have thought I was brushing your question aside and giving you an overly generalized answer, but I really wasn't.

I read all over the internet, and I'm surprised almost daily by comments from Trump supporters with very diverse backgrounds. My family has no history of union jobs; a mix of farmers and college-educated professionals of various stripes. Even so, I thought the way struggling middle-American communities were being ignored (by both parties) was shameful. The voices of those who had lost manufacturing jobs, and were only asking for the dignity of work, resonated with me even though I haven't shared their specific experiences.

I'm just trying to say, it's a broader group than people with a narrow-minded view of Trump supporters would like to believe.

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Ann

"They are the ones who turn up their nose at education as “getting above your raising”. Anyone who has more learning than a high school education is suspicious. You can learn all you need to know by the 6th grade, and out into the workforce with you. Mama didn’t have all of them kids so as she could be the one waiting tables till she was 70. You better get busy and get some honest work that puts some blisters on your hands and buy mama her oxygen and Camels.Dont get no idears of fancy pantsing it. Its OK, even you do some of that technically dishonest work. It’s OK to be a criminal—-if you get away with it. Stealing a gun from your neighbors and growing a little medicinal use plants, or making 1000 gallons of “home brew” is admirable. It’s what a Rebel would do."

"I like live_wire's answer; most of that resonates with me. Generally Trump's followers are not well-educated, with an attitude that the world owes them something although they're not willing to do much to get it, easily convinced that others are doing better than they are and angry about it, and therefore readily convinced that someone must be at fault, looking for a scapegoat, easily influenced by a leader who seems to buy into that nonsense and who gives them "permission" to be angry and to attack blindly and without reason, since reason and logic are not their friends. Since they will follow a leader who lies, is amoral, cheats and steals, they themselves don't hold themselves to a high standard; the end always justifies the means. The educational system, which is by now deeply unsuccessful and flawed, has done nothing to truly educate them, and they lack the will and desire to inform and educate themselves, which makes them easy prey for a demagogue who promises them everything but gives them nothing. I think they may have always been primarily blue-collar Republicans, but fairly mindless ones who cling to the name and the trappings without really being invested in all of the underlying beliefs of that party."

I have to smile every time the HT Dems go down the path of the narrative of uneducated (very blue collar) Trump supporters. Just looking at my smallish immediate family, not extending beyond kids, siblings, and first cousins (and just a couple of their children of whom I am aware of their politics) - within that small mix, we have as enthusiastic Trump supporters - 5 engineers (one with a PHD in electrical engineering), 2 docs, 1 dentist, 1 CPA, and 1 attorney.

ETA: Comments as loaded with attempted shaming as the ones I quoted, truly amaze me.

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Ziemia(6a)

It isn't socio-economic or education that predicts a Trump's supporter.

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Ann

Presidential politics in the U.S. is a binary choice and that choice is increasingly between two significantly opposite sets of policy choices.

I think threads like this so want to focus on Trump, the individual, and for people who vote on policies which will impact the country and their families (which I think is likely the majority of voters), threads like this aim to ignore or forget that most important aspect.

Trump is quite an individual anomaly, but his policies aren't (even a little bit). That important point gets so lost in many HT discussions.

Conversely, the policies of the majority of the Dem candidates are a huge anomaly. I think this important point is, critically, being missed. Far too many Dems want to make the 2020 election all about an anti-Trump (the man) vote, which is missing the biggest point of all, IMO. Each president (the person) is temporary, but the policies can be long lasting!

Dems are solely focused on criticizing Trump, the man. But they are struggling (or even miserably failing) at criticizing his policy. They are now presenting their own policy desires, and those are representing enormous policy anomalies for the U.S..

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Ziemia(6a)

Ann, maybe 20% of your assessments of Dem candidates and Dem party members are close to spot-on. Maybe less.

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Joaniepoanie

What Trump policies? He just spouts whatever pops into his pea brain at the moment, then changes it or walks it back 15 minutes later.

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woodnymph2_gw

wasbirobby's comments above made sense to me. The switch from belief that Dems are the party of the working man, formerly protected by Unions came about through disillusionment. Perhaps these new Repubs are descendants in thought from the formerly old Democratic party that was mostly in the deep South (thus some racist overtones). I also see today's Repubs as descendants of the former teaparty rebellion that failed. As for Evangelicals, I would not rule out their influence. I recall the Bully pulpits in the '80's and '90's where the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells told their congregations how to vote, to rid the nation of the "liberals". I have acquaintences of that ilk, and they regretted all the changes that the upheavals n the '60's had brought about for women, Blacks, and minorities in general. They still do and they support Trump, my Evangelical acquaintences. We dare not discuss politics.

I do not agree that any present-day Trump supporters were previously Bernie supporters. Partly because I was a Bernie supporter and I see the two candidates as being polar opposites as well as their platforms and personalities.

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Ann

Ziemia, I wonder if your 20% or less opinion is wishful thinking on your part?

I'd be curious to know which Dem policies (those being most discussed by the candidates) you think are not representing significant policy anomalies compared to what the U.S. has represented and been accustomed to.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I too was a Bernie supporter in 2016, and would never consider voting for Trump. The real deal versus the snake oil peddler.

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queenmargo

I too was a Bernie supporter in 2016, and would never consider voting for Trump. The real deal versus the snake oil peddler.

Bernie the Real Socialist versus Trump the Real Capitalist;)

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patriciae_gw(07)

Donald Trump the person has not paid his contracted subs and refused to rent to people of color and routinely hired illegals to work cheaply in his personally labeled enterprises, treated women like pieces of meat and boasted of leering at under age female girls amongst other failings. I guess since these are personal failings they do not count with people who are only interested in his affect on the economy. So exactly what were those policies that created all this "winning" the ones that have won your support in spite of his failings as a human being. You have to be able to enumerate them since they have won you over in spite of his moral ethical and business failings.

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Ziemia(6a)

Grifting does not prove Trump is a capitalist.

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Delilah66

“Are you using 'Trumpster' as a pejorative? Like 'dumpster'?

Emily said we couldn't do that.”

Emily did not say that. Trumpster is no more a pejorative than is winger or cult and there’s plenty of that type of group naming.

However, the rules of the road also state, “You may use (flagging) to alert our team to content that should be reviewed for violations.”

So, what did this violate:

Would you have preferred this to symbolize “plaque”?


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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I like that handicap sign!

-------------------------------

Are you using 'Trumpster' as a pejorative? Like 'dumpster'?

I already responded to this one in an earlier post (I said "No.") I must admit I like "Trumpster" and think I might go on using it. On another thread, it was pointed out that there is a Texas female cheerleader type group that cheers for Trump. They call themselves "Trumpettes." If there is nothing objectionable about that, then I think there should not be a problem with "Trumpster".

For the sensitive types, think something like "roadster" instead of "dumpster." It might just depend on where your head is.

Kate

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paprikash


By the way, I abbreviate most posters names--ask Paprika who didn't like me calling him "Pap" (though he doesn't seem to object to others calling him that), so I asked him if Paprika was OK. He said yes. Usually I reduce names to 2 to 4 or 5 letters at most.

======

dublin: I don’t object to anyone calling me pap.

eta — ‘prik’ I would object to :-)

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Ziemia(6a)

youngster

songster

trickster

(So going to dumpster first is just a personal response - not a typical one.)

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Paprika- or Pap--I'm glad to hear you do not object to "Pap"--much easier and quicker to type.

However, you seem to have forgotten a conversation you and I had shortly after you appeared on this forum (or at least shortly after I noticed your presence on this forum). You were decidedly irritated with me for addressing you as Pap. You wanted me to write out your full forum name. We went back and forth a couple times on it, and you finally agreed you'd accept Paprika. I remember being somewhat amused since paprika always reminds me of potato salad.

Now "prik"--I think we can both agree that might not be the best choice. : )

Kate

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mudhouse

woodnymph: I do not agree that any present-day Trump supporters were previously Bernie supporters. Partly because I was a Bernie supporter and I see the two candidates as being polar opposites as well as their platforms and personalities.

When I started reading comments by ex-Bernie supporters, I was surprised too. But here's an NPR article from 2017:
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people.

Here's a link to a short video by AnOmaly, a hip-hop artist and social media activist (742,000 Facebook followers). He's an ex-Bernie supporter, and in this video he lists the reasons why he now supports Trump, if you're interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V62s5hgi-Zk&feature=youtu.be

This article mentions possible reasons for common voters. Both Sanders and Trump have made statements about wanting to avoid getting involved in a quagmire in the Middle East, and Sanders made statements opposing the Trans Pacific Partnership (Trump withdrew from the TPP.) Both have expressed interest in criminal justice reform (and Trump signed the First Step act.) Both have championed themselves as standing up for average Americans. There is overlap on some issues (I'm not saying there aren't differences on other issues, of course.)

https://thefederalist.com/2019/02/28/bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-trump-2020/

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Wants to Grow

Hi Kate, The term "Trumpster" has been used exclusively as a derogatory term. Justifying that it reminds you of similar sounding words doesn't change the fact that it's being used disparagingly.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Well I am still waiting. It has been two hours. Not one thing?

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Paprik or Pap--my apology. I found our earlier conversation and I mis-remembered some details. I called you "Paprik" and Elvis accused me of shortening your name in order to make it offensive. When I asked you what you would like me to call you instead, you suggested (politely) "Paprika." I said OK.


Sorry that print is so small. You can go to this link for a better view--about halfway down the page: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2323790/when-is-it-going-to-trickle-down#n=89

So, just to make sure there are no misunderstandings, may I call you "Pap" or would you prefer "Paprik" or "Paprika"?

Kate : )

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Wants to Grow (Hmm--how will I shorten that one?)

Perhaps "Trumpster" is disparaging, but guess what--I can and do readily disparage Trump and his devoted followers without ever resorting to his nickname--so refraining from using "Trumpster" is not going to change my attitude toward him or his followers.

Kate

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Ziemia(6a)

Trumpster is the descriptor chosen by some Trump supporters.

So it was wrong of them?

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patriciae_gw(07)

Back when conservatives were calling Barak Obama BO and being disingenuous about it, we asked them very politely not to and most of them did eventually comply so on that basis I will continue to not use labels that are offensive to some. I like Trumplicans but I am guessing that isn't polite either? I suppose if you aren't a converted Republican it would not be true but then again conservative as a label doesn't really work either but no one seems upset by it. Since we aren't allowed to direct criticisms directly, so we all have to obfuscate, it gets confusing.

And I still want to hear about those policies that Trump supporters believe have rescued the country from certain doom.

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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

patricae, I fear you'll have a long wait. Apart from that, no one will ever convince me that a serial liar of gargantuan proportions, an adulterer, a thief, and a demonstrably very stupid man, among who knows how many other failings, can have anything of worth to offer. The fact that there are people here and elsewhere who are willing to overlook this veritable litany of failings makes me extremely worried about the caliber of an alarmingly large number of Americans. They have never, to my knowledge, explained here how they can overlook a veritable banquet of extremely grave defects that never, in the history of this country, would have excused any other president.

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elvis

And I still want to hear about those policies that Trump supporters believe have rescued the country from certain doom.

Well, then go back and read old threads, it's all there.

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cait1

@ Delilah @ 11:32AM

Are you addressing me?

If so, I have no idea what you are talking about.

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cait1

@ patriciae

Back when conservatives were calling Barak Obama BO

Yawn.

Not this again.

Shortening a prez' name to his initials is commonplace - FDR, LBJ, JFK, GWB

I was reprimanded for writing BHO and given various reasons why it wasn't 'appropriate' in the eyes of the majority posters.

It was really about control, the majority tried to, and supposedly you still are trying to control how I write his name. And just because you couched it by writing, "being disingenuous about it" I know you are in fact saying I am lying.

Not nice.

How many people write FAOS instead of foodonastump, whereas I just call him food? And now we know paprikash doesn't mind being called pap. I often call Mudhouse, Mud. And I usually address dublinbay a Kate.

Anyway, this thread isn't about shortening names. I only wanted to know if Kate meant Trumpster as a pejorative. She says she didn't. I'll accept that. Just as I would expect adults to accept that when I write BO I'm thinking of it sounding like the name Bo and never in my head pronounce it as two separate letters.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Well no Elvis, it is not there. It has always been vague claims of Trump doing great things for the country. I have been asking the question for a long time-sparsely to not meet the stalking category but out there and have never ever gotten a response.

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paprikash

Pap is just fine, Kate.

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Query: Just who are the Trumpsters?

We're nearing the point where many of them are trying to fiqure out who they are too.

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cait1

@ Kate

It was the labor unions that preached that the Democrats cared for the
"little guy," but as the Repub. Party cut back on the influence of the
unions
...

I've been thinking about this since I read it and have done a lot of searches since then to understand the union issue.

IMO, the problem with unions happened when they were allowed in the public sector. If a private firm wants to deal with unions, that one thing. It only affects those in that business. But when unions were allowed in the public sector, that affected everyone in the State and country and the average Joe had no say in whatever bargaining happened but was still forced to pay. If I'm a repub, which I'm not, but my tax dollars are going to a public union that then donates money only to dem candidates, then by default I'm giving donations to the dem party and as a repub I'm not happy about that. As an unaffiliated taxpayer I'm unhappy that any of my money is going to any candidate I don't support regardless of political affiliation.

I don't think the repub party is against unions per se, but when every taxpayer is expected to fund a public union and then that union favors one party over the other, there's something very unfair about that.

I remember there was a bit of grumbling when BO supported charter schools because they don't have to hire union workers, but I wouldn't say he did that because he's anti-union.

This article was just published... some weeks ago Chicago Mayor Lightfoot was demanding a taxpayer funded bailout of the city's nearly bankrupt pension funds, but she was denied. Now we find out she just offered Chicago's Teacher's Union a five year contract that would cost taxpayers another $325million which puts more burden on an already overburdened pension fund.

https://wirepoints.org/chicagos-lightfoot-demands-a-state-taxpayer-bailout-then-offers-ctu-a-5-year-contract-14-raise/

Everyone in the State pays taxes and a lot of their taxes are sent to keep Chicago afloat yet every citizen of Illinois wasn't allowed a voice in Lightfoot's deal with the Teacher's Union.

How is that fair?

I don't mean to move the thread to a discussion of unions, I'm just thinking that the union issue isn't a simple 'dems pro unions v repubs anti unions' argument.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Thank you for your contribution on why Repubs opposed unions. My point, however, was on the sequence of what happened when the unions began losing power--a loss of "glue," as I put it above, to hold together the workers no longer united by union and political party affiliation, followed by little attention from the Repub. "elites"--leading finally (I'm not sure I made this point above) to a lot of worker types unattached and "free-floating," as it were, and ready to be marshalled into a non-party group identity centered on a dominant personality (Trump, or earlier, Perot) with a populist message.

I think the point made above by a couple posters about many southern workers becoming former members of the old Democratic Party and transitioning to what they perceived as the anti-racial integration party was another important strand in the migration of the former Democratic worker over to the new Repub. Party.

It occurs to me that the earlier union affiliations acted as a kind of "discipline" on the sometimes rather unruly workers--giving them a focus, grounding them, providing an identity they could be loyal to (etc.). When the "glue" started failing, many of those workers wanted a new focus/identity around which they could organize their lives. That is what Trump gives many of them (I'm thinking of the cult-like rallies)--a kind of political "religion" that provides the new kind of "glue" holding them in a group and giving their lives direction and expression.

Kate

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patriciae_gw(07)

And still no explanation of Trumps policies that have saved America.

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cait1

I think I'd need you to flesh out that 'loss of "glue"' a bit more for me to understand better.

What exactly did repubs do to unstick the unions? Right to work laws? I knew a projectionist who would have been very happy if that was in place when he worked in that field. He was no repub, not even conservative, but he was very much against having to join the union and because he refused he lost his job.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

The other Cait ; )

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

I enjoyed chatting with "the other Cait."

Kate

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cait1

LOL I saw what you did there, Kate!

Very funny! ROFL

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Rudebekia

I'm an independent. There was easily a time where I'd say I'd never in a billion years vote for Trump. But I will most likely vote for him in 2020. As a person who abhors the abortion platform of the Democrats as well as their loony left wingers who make all the splash but are very short on real policy, I will never vote for any of the likely Democrats who will make the final cut. I thoroughly dislike some Republican stances as well. Both parties have serious flaws. By the way, I live in a fairly liberal area and there are a whole lot of people I speak with who feel the same about the upcoming election. They may not want to talk about it openly, but they will hold their nose and vote for Trump vs. the chaos and moral decrepitude that is now the face of the Democratic party.

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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Good to hear from another independent!

I must say, however, that I do not experience the Dem. Party as "chaos"--I'm patient and can wait and watch with interest as the plethora of candidates sort themselves out--despite Trump artificially trying to inject chaos into the party by squabbling with the "squad" and giving them a prominence and influence way beyond anything they actually possess in the Dem. Party.

Nor do I find any more "moral decrepitude" (strong words) in the Dem. Party than I do in the Repub. Party--nor any other political groups. The thing about politics is all that POWER enticing less than honest and upright types into its clutches!

Kate

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cait1

The thing about politics is all that POWER enticing less than honest and upright types into its clutches!

Amen to that.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

FWIW - and forgive me if this was already mentioned in the 100+ comments above - there was the well documented phenomena of many GOP voters switching to self identify as 'Independent' after the mess of GWBush's term as president. By the time he left office, many people in his party wanted nothing further to do with him, apparently.

Moral decrepitude? Do elaborate, please!

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Joaniepoanie

Chaos and moral decrepitude in the Dem party? Have you not been paying attention to Trump and the Republicans the last two and a half years?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Does moral decrepitude mean having faith that a woman and her doctor can make medical decisions?

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chisue

This is easy. Just listen to Trump campaigning right now. He rants at and magnifies every unfounded belief and fear that his supporters hold dear. His message is fear-based.

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catkinZ8a


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adoptedbyhounds

"He rants at and magnifies every unfounded belief and fear that his supporters hold dear."

I disagree.

President Trump has simply prioritized securing our borders. Secure borders and knowing who is on our soil are matters of national security, whether his critics like it or not.

Dems can't stop demonizing President Trump and his supporters for standing with Americans instead of illegals and asylum scammers. Crazy.

At the end of the day, Americans will have to decide if if their families deserve to come first, or if they're willing to step aside for non-citizens trying to game our system.

Not sure how many Americans will be OK with Democrats neglecting citizens in order to "serve" new arrivals, but in the last presidential election, America First was quite popular. No reason for that to change.

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studio10001

Since you mentioned crazy, I find it so when all immigrants are lumped in to the problem. 45 is not trying to secure borders so that immigration laws apply. He wants to eliminate immigration across the southern border as entirely as impossible. Are all non citizens trying to game us? If that is so, perhaps he might put some effort into immigration from other sources. What is happening with those raids, anyway? Any legislation guidance? Have they hired enough judges yet? Have the children been released to their families? Maybe you have some information on his progress in this area. Far from demonzing him, I hold him to compliance of the law and find him wanting, as well as ineffectual at protecting our national security.

This week his priority is the return of elected members of government to their countries. Americans don't think their representatives should be dismissed as aliens, or that doing so is a matter of national security, whether their detractors think so or not.

America first is a fine thing - if it includes all Americans.

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woodnymph2_gw

Rudebekia, I'm curious about your post re "loony left wingers" and " of the chaos and moral decrepitude" of the Dem. party. I want to know what you think of Biden, who is far from "loony" in his views. Most consider him to be a "moderate", middle of the road sort of candidate. Why should you assume that the "Squad" of four liberal female Dems of color should be the face of the Democratic party? We are a "big tent" party of many diverse backgrounds and platforms. In time, after this next debate, possibly, many of the more left-thinking Dems will be weeded out and there will be a tier of only 4 or 5. I'm not being critical of your views; I honest would like you to explain further.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Majorities of voters think education and healthcare, along with immigration reform, are important - is that too liberal?

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez recently pointed out that telling US citizens to 'go back ' tells us that Mr. Trump's policies are not about securing our borders, but about race and ethnicity.

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