Don't Be A Sucker.

dandyfopp



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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

Thx, Even the rerun is good. 1947 but it appears to be a mid 30's film, about the same time Superman was proud to have been an illegal alien in the USA.

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Joaniepoanie

I really really really wish/hope Trump supporters will view this.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

Superman --- Truth, Justice and the American Way. Not just a super man for his powers but because he was/is decent, honorable and cared for and about others. Up, up and away!!

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batyabeth

oh, wonderful!!!!

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vgkg Z-7 Va(Z-7)

This clip apparently needs to be dusted off every other generation or so, way too many need to be reminded that we humans have a dark side that can easily be awakened by a fear mongering huskster that's hungry for power.

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Annie Deighnaugh

Wow...powerful message and spot on for today's environment. How often do we have to keep learning the same lesson?

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cait1

Amazing how back then people were left unmolested to speak their mind, no matter how repulsive their opinions.

Maybe antifa could learn something by watching that video.

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maifleur01

If you think people back then were free to speak their minds you need to look at those times. People were only free to speak their minds if they were white, middle class or higher, and male. The rest would have been arrested or worse.

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Joaniepoanie

cait1

Amazing how back then people were left unmolested to speak their mind, no matter how repulsive their opinions.

Maybe antifa could learn something by watching that video.

*********

Cait........It’s very sad and disheartening that that was your takeaway from watching the video. You missed the point entirely.

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mudhouse

Wikipedia says it was made in 1943 by the US Dept of War, and released as a shorter version in 1947. It was also used to make the case for desegregating the military.

It went viral after the Charlottesville rally; I can see why. People who want to believe the reason for Trump's success is rampant racism can feel good about identifying with the wise and kindly foreign refugee professor in the movie, pointing out the dangers of being lured into the trap of discrimination. So people on the left watch it today and tell themselves, look, it's all happening again, and look, I'm the good guy on the right side, just like the guy in the movie. And that feels good.

The problem is, the 1947 film is not a depiction of what's happening now. Today, the bigoted guy making the speech would most likely have been prevented from speaking at all. In 2019, smart people should decide for the rest of us what words are okay to hear, since people can't be trusted to make good judgements on their own, and it's just too upsetting to hear ugly things.

Of course, Trump supporters are supposed to be the onlookers in the crowd being fooled by the evil, bigoted speaker, talking about how black people, foreigners and Catholics are taking jobs away from white people, filled with mindless hatred of The Other. And as the wise and kindly refugee tells the younger man, this is how the Nazis took control in Berlin.

Donald Trump isn't Hitler, and his supporters aren't becoming Nazis. Trump supporters don't hate minorities, or immigrants. We're asking for national security, and border security, and we're asking for our elected representatives to have as much concern for American citizens as they do for people who enter our country illegally. We're asking for people to immigrate here legally, and to support the values that have made the country great. We're not oppressing fellow citizens because of their skin color, and you guys aren't witnessing the fall of democracy, either.

It's a nice movie clip, but a really awful parallel.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

Mudhouse, if what you say is true --- "Trump supporters don't hate minorities, or immigrants. We're asking for national security, and border security, and we're asking for our elected representatives to have as much concern for American citizens as they do for people who enter our country illegally" --- what's all the fuss and frustration about? I'm left of center and I'm totally down with what you wrote. I can't speak for others but I'll bet many feel the same. Why do we (I mean here on HT and I mean ALL of the nation) have to browbeat the other side?

Another thing you said struck me because it's something I've been thinking about lately: "In 2019, smart people should decide for the rest of us what words are okay to hear, since people can't be trusted to make good judgements on their own, and it's just too upsetting to hear ugly things." It doesn't upset me to hear ugly things; what upsets me is realizing that I share air with people so full of hate that they exude ugly.

PC is scorned by some --- certainly by the ones who can't be bothered to use any kind of filter for their words/actions. I don't think "smart people" or anyone else should decide what any of us hears or sees, I just keep hoping civility on an individual level will win out.

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cait1

@ dirtygert

Mudhouse, if what you say is true

Why the assumption that what Mud is saying isn't true?

Mea culpa should that not be how you meant it, but to begin with 'if... is true', instead of something like, "Mudhouse, you say that Trump supporters don't hate minorities...." leads me to think you believe her statement to be false.

I can't speak for Mud or any other Trump supporter though other Trump supporters may agree with me, but the problems of mass immigration today v the mass migration from late 1890s to around 1930 are many.

First and foremost, in the earlier time frame there were very different immigration laws; such as there was no such thing as chain migration. Today it's set, you either come to America with the proper paper work or ya here illegally. There was no welfare so immigrants were expected to make their own way. The population in 1980 was only about 63million and there was plenty of land in the west to settle. There was no such thing as 'Press 1 for English.' People used to assimilate, spoke English at home even though it wasn't their first language and were proud when they finally received citizenship, had no need to hyphenate themselves and put the country they came from first.

Again, mea culpa, but you did understand that Mud was being sarcastic in the second of your quotes from her, yes, no? In what decade did the entire world ever speak/act civilly?

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Ziemia(6a)

Most opposed to Trump's policies also want folk to immigrate legally.

The disagreement is how to deal with the asylum seekers and others as well as how to work with our neighbors.

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dandyfopp

The video is about a human failing, as long as we are human it will be with us.

We think of it as a thing of the past, it could not happen to us now, evolved as we are.

But we are still a thing that can be driven and controlled by fear, made blind by fear, made cowards by fear and made accomplices by fear.

Donnie from his bully pulpit demonizes and blames and points the finger and real human beings suffer. Real human beings die..

Donnie fans cheer. Or stand silent and deny.


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SoFLUSA

Or stand silent and inwardly cheer.

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jama7(6)

"Donald Trump isn't Hitler, and his supporters aren't becoming Nazis. Trump supporters don't hate minorities, or immigrants."

You're correct. Many of his supporters aren't becoming Nazis, they already are. And if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. I know far too many Trumpers who don't want any more brown people in this country and we've all certainly read thousands of comments online that prove the above statement totally false. Legal/illegal doesn't matter....many don't want 'em period.

Most Trumpers aren't handling the changing face of America very well, especially the rural and older folks. I understand that fear and why it's there as we lived in those areas and we have dear friends there. Much of it exists because these people have very limited association with many, if any minorities, esp Muslims and their only exposure are the dark stories, fear mongering on Fox or online that constantly stokes the fear/hate. But to worship this racist clown takes that discomfort/fear to a very dark place and allows them to be played by Trump and the GOP which, to retain power, licks his boots. Taking America down this path is a lousy way to gain votes.

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dirtygert(5-NY)

Cait (and Mudhouse), guess I totally misconstrued all in Mudhouse's post. It's probably best not to comment until I gain a little more understanding.

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mudhouse

dirtygert: if what you say is true---"Trump supporters don't hate minorities, or immigrants. We're asking for national security, and border security, and we're asking for our elected representatives to have as much concern for American citizens as they do for people who enter our country illegally" --- what's all the fuss and frustration about? I'm left of center and I'm totally down with what you wrote. Why do we (I mean here on HT and I mean ALL of the nation) have to browbeat the other side?

dirtygert, thanks for a thoughtful reply. I think it's human nature to take the easier road, and slap a label on the other side as the villain, than it is to dig below the surface and truly talk about the nuts and bolts of how we disagree with each other.

It takes a lot less thoughtful consideration and soul-searching to try to win the argument by saying your opponent is a bad person; end of discussion.

Ziemia's reply, for example: "The disagreement is how to deal with the asylum seekers and others as well as how to work with our neighbors" deals with nuts and bolts, and opens the door to a discussion that could actually lead to common ground, or at least, to a better understanding of exactly where agreement breaks down.

But her reply isn't as sensational, or attention-grabbing, and it will usually be overshadowed by replies like Jama7s: "Many of his supporters aren't becoming Nazis, they already are. And if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas." Replies like Ziemia's usually won't get the attention they deserve, and comments like hers don't drive up viewership on cable news shows, either.

I don't mind that you used the world "if" before "what you say is true." But what I typed is true, about any Trump supporter I know, and about the overwhelming majority of those I don't know. I appreciate anyone on the left who stops to ask themselves if it might be true that Trump supporters don't actually hate minorities, or immigrants. Because once you do that, you might be able to hear some of what we're saying about legal vs. illegal immigration. Not agree, just hear it. You might get past the "you're a Nazi" nonsense.

We all oversimplify because it's a fast way to make ourselves feel better about our own beliefs. If you can classify the other guy as the villain in a 1947 movie, you don't have to deal with the hard work of understanding the complexities of what they're saying. There are big important differences in what our two sides believe. Discussing those differences without grabbing any tool you can find, including villification, is hard work, and it's not as much fun. But it's what needs to happen.

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batyabeth

Of course there was chain migration. An uncle got to Chicago, a cousin got to Detroit, a nephew got to New York. If, at Ellis Island, you could point to a family member already in the US, you had a better chance of being passed through. That's how my great grandparents got off the boat and came to Milwaukee, New York, etc. The hard work of understanding the complexities is truly what needs to be done, agreed, but making believe what happened before , didn't, is not the way to start.

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cattyles

Are you including fellow trump supporters in your remarks, mudhouse?

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mudhouse

Cait, I agree that the differences between 1940s and 2019 US laws makes a world of difference. The US is at an entirely different point economically. It's probably unfair to let a handful of protesters have such an impact on my viewpoint, but I can't forget the recent visual of the Aurora CO protesters replacing the US flag with the Mexican flag, when I think about how immigrants from decades ago cared about assimilating. They were proud to become part of a country they believed was the best place to raise their families.

Some of my family came from Denmark. I don't think they would identify with the current protesters fighting against the deportation of those who've been afforded the legal process, and who've now been served deportation papers. But I do think they would identify with people who still do the hard work of immigrating here legally.

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Ziemia(6a)

Weird. For me - I can't the get the visuals of humans caged like cattle corralled for slaughter out of mine.

They are here and are assured of good treatment by our Constitution. Quadruple the judges and get the hearings scheduled.

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mudhouse

That's not weird; it's a good example of how both sides get visuals stuck in our minds that back up our beliefs. But from my point of view, the flag replacement really happened, and humans haven't been corralled like cattle for slaughter. Border detention facilities have been overwhelmed because of the inability of our lawmakers to deal with inadequate laws.

Edited to add, most of the people in the detention facilities are there through actions of their own choosing. Something that cattle corralled for slaughter rarely do.

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Ziemia(6a)

Ahh, that's clear.

Yes, the conditions in some centers are comparable to cattle. Though I guess sometimes the cattle are so crowded there is no space between them. Conditions don't seem to be that bad (yet).

Saying it's their fault doesn't work with the Constitution.

PS: both really happened.

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Joaniepoanie

There is a longer version of this video on youtube where it speaks to denigration of the press and contempt for higher education among other things we see daily with Trump and here on HT.

Trump’s rhetoric is exactly like in the film. He began his campaign with “Mexicans are rapists” and was cheered. He has said “they’re” taking your jobs” and just this week told four congresswomen to go back to where they came from. And “we don't need any more Haitians......get em outta here!”

Trump is sowing division through racism. He admires dictators and would like to rule like them. We see it everyday when he ignores the rule of law. He is taking us down a dark path.

I had hoped for more, but It’s certainly no surprise how the right interpreted the film and are trying to make the case there are no similarities between it and Trump and today, but the film was spot on then and it is spot on now.



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cait1

Immigrants weren't guaranteed entrance through chain migration back then as they are now. Same as no visas or papers were required back then as they are now.

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Annie Deighnaugh

I don't mind that you used the world "if" before "what you say is true." But what I typed is true, about any Trump supporter I know, and about the overwhelming majority of those I don't know.

There's the rub. I don't doubt that you are telling us what you believe is true, but that can be different from what is actually true. You may know about your personal experience of trump supporters, but you don't know about the 'overwhelming majority of those' you don't know. That's what data is for.

I may live in a community of only white people so all the people I know are white...to say that would be true of my experience; but to then draw the conclusion that therefore the overwhelming majority of people are white would not be correct.

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Annie Deighnaugh

cait1...check wikipedia...chain migration has been around for a long time.

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chase_gw

....and will be around for a long time to come.Although more appropriately called family reunification.

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mudhouse

That's what data is for.

So where do you go to get "data", Annie, about what's in the hearts and minds of any group of people?

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Joaniepoanie

Glad this thread is back. It should not have been flagged in the first place. Games people play.

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dandyfopp

How pathetic.

Don't be a sucker.

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