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12” Clay Pot Keeps Blowing Over (Gardenia Tree)

scapergirl (7a DE)
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago

So I am trying to keep my sweet gardenia tree alive and we keep getting storms with 60+ mph winds. It has blown over 3 times now in the last 2 months! I upgraded my nursery pot to a 12” terra cotta pot and that helped alot. This last time it blew over and shattered the pot :(. Ugh. The tree is roughly 3 ft tall with 1/3rd of that height being the canopy. I hate having to repot constantly (1st being rootbound /blowover, 2nd being into terra cotta and 3rd with this most recent blowover) and risk damaging all of it’s fine shallow roots. So I this time I went all crazy and added a curved piece of broken terra cotta over the hole (to keep it open) and a brick paver and half (broken). I then added the soil less mix around the bricks to they reached the bottom of the pot around the sides with a wick extending out of the bottom hole. I then added the tree back into the pot and filled back up with the remaining soil less mix left over from the last pot and a bit more of new. I soaked it yesterday after noon and today when I got home it was dry again so that it needed another watering. I am now afraid that I took up too much soil volume with the bricks. It’s never dried out so fast (except when root bound). I also put some rebar in two adjacent pots and tied it off that that as well. I am determined not to have it blow over again!! Thoughts on my adding the bricks? It filled up about 1/3rd of the bottom of the pot (space around sides though). I really want this tree to live and THRIVE. Thanks all!!



Comments (48)

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Sorry for the lone photo, text didn’t come through the first time.

  • christine 5b
    4 years ago

    Try putting the clay pot into a larger pot, use stones to weight down that pot, (pot with the Gardenia will act as the cache pot,) I've had to do this and it does work, your Gardenia is top heavy, I think she looks great. I hope I explained that clearly LOL.....

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked christine 5b
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  • littlebug zone 5 Missouri
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    You can’t fight Mother Nature - physics says the big leafy top will catch lots of wind and blow over the tiny pot.

    I agree that you need a much larger, heavier pot. Set your existing pot inside a BIG pot, wedged in and weighted down. Look for a concrete or cast iron pot. Wayfair has some.

    Actually, it doesn’t even have to be a pot. It just has to be something bigger than what you have now, just make sure it will let water drain away from your pot.

    Or you could even dig a hole and set it (the pot) in the ground. Bring it in the house when the weather gets bad in the fall.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked littlebug zone 5 Missouri
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks all!!! I had a suspicion that the bricks in the bottom were not the best idea! I will take a look for a larger pot that I can weigh down. How do I keep the smaller pot from tipping over in the larger pot without affecting drainage and allowing air flow around clay pot. Who knew this simple gardenia would cause me so much anxiety! LOL...

  • littlebug zone 5 Missouri
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I’d pack the void with gravel, not worrying about airflow around the clay pot. Or, a few big rocks wedged in would leave some room for a bit of airflow.

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Brick at the bottom of the pot will be perfectly fine and even help in keeping the soil from saturating. Two things you have to make sure and it sounds like you did. One is pack soil around the brick so the soil reaches the bottom. Second make sure the drain holes are not blocked by the brick. Using bricks or other objects at the bottom of the pot is a great technique to reduced perched water and thus water saturation. And on top it helps to weigh the pot down. And of course, it will dry out faster but still it is better than roots sitting in saturated water near the bottom.

    To stabilize, I often use belgian blocks around the pots on the patio as long you do not mind the looks. I like the looks and you can arrange the blocks on the patio to give it an interesting look too. You can fill the gaps in the blocks and plant creepers like thyme and small flowering plants to make it even more interesting.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    So I removed the brick(s) when I got home from work around 1pm. I agree the brick set up was great to reduce a perched water table, but I think it worked too well. :0 The buds were wilting again just a tad and my moisture meter was reading very dry to slightly moist in different areas. The tree did beautifully with just a wick and soil before I added the brick so I decided to go back to that, keep the stakes and later tonight I will grab some of my excess belgium blocks and place them around the bottom. The last storm was massively severe and the tree had been fine in previous 25 mph gusts so I am hoping with the added support it will be good to go. Of course hind sight is 20/20 and I would have brought the thing in Saturday, but who knew the winds were going to get so strong! Thanks again all. Will post photo later of setup :) :).

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Survived the storm last night!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Cool. That pic gives me an idea. Tie a rope to a block, pass it over the pot and tie the other end to the opposite block. May be another one at right angles to the first one. If the rope is kept taut/snug I think the pot is not going anywhere.

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    It’s pretty darn secure now that’s for sure! LOL Glad to serve as some inspiration :) I may have pushed my luck with this last repot though. This tree has been loaded with buds for each repot / and initial bare rooting (massively root-bound) and has yet to show the slightest damage to it. Now it’s not so happy (probably since it’s been in the 90’s for the past two weeks vs. 60’s / 70’s during the first repotting. The buds started wilting again today even though the soil is still moist to very damp depending on where I test. I have it in full sun which I am thinking I should have moved it to shade when I repotted but since I staked it I didn’t feel like unstaking and moving it I thought it would be ok especially since we have had a threat of storms every day and I DONT need another fall. I have one bud fall off but that one was damaged in the storm. What should I do? I am afraid more of overwatering than dry as that’s how my last one died during the monsoons of 2018 Should I move it to shade? Water it? Shake a chicken over it and pray? Or ignore it and make it think I don’t care about it one iota? Thanks all.

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    I have a dwarf gardenia that gets about 5-6 hrs of full Sun. Our highs have been in high 80s. I have to water it every other day that is if it does not rain. We have been getting rain most days. If it is hot and growing your plant should be fine.

    Sounds like you have used a good well draining mix when you repotted. Probably also root pruned and so it is making fresh roots to support the existing leaf mass. New leaf buds on many plants, under these conditions, often wilt a bit in the afternoon but should be not much to worry about. Usually by evening they should perk back up. If not then consider shading the plant from afternoon Sun for a couple of weeks.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • Sherry8aNorthAL
    4 years ago

    I have put a patio or beach umbrella over pots that I just moved to high sun before. Just for a few days until they adapt.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked Sherry8aNorthAL
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Tropic - thanks for the reassurance. I didn’t water it last night and the buds had perked up a bit by morning. I gave it a drink this morning because it’s going to be another hot one today. I think I am going to have to find a way to shade it from 2 to 5 pm for a week or so until it has a chance to recover a bit more from the slight damage that most likely occurred from falling over and repotting. I was gentle, but the roots are just so fine I am sure some got damaged. They were beautiful though when I repotted nice and white and everywhere! Yea! LOL. The mix drains nicely! I was wary of using a premade mix considering how much everyone seems to love the gritty mix but it has done quite well for me. Go me...or rather go Gardenia! haha. No we just need some cooler weather. 75 sounds good to me :) :) :)

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Be certain that the trunk isn't strapped too tightly to that pole or your tree won't last very long. It needs to be able to sway a bit in the wind.

    Edited to add: if the ties are too tight around the trunk, the phloem can be compressed, resulting in a dead or declining plant in a few months.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Good point Rhizo. Checked the ties and anchors..all good.

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Ugh, I’m having a really hard time with my gardenia since the last repot. As you east coasters know we had a pretty bad heat wave for a good week and a half (90 to 100 for 10 days) I had a hard time figuring out when to water as my meter said moist still but the buds drooped. It has so many buds that I think that added to it’s stress. Now the leaves are rapidly turning yellow and I have had to pick off a good quarter of the buds due to browning at the base. The leaves that turned yellow first were the ones shaded by other leaves (almost in the pattern of the leave above the yellowing one) Now a bunch are turning yellow, not just shaded ones. I have moved it to a location that gets sun from sunrise to about 12:30pm instead of 9 am to 4 pm. But that hasn’t seemed to have helped. I applied 1/2 TBSP of irontone as a last ditch effort on Saturday (7/27) but don’t see much change. Did the heat wave / inconsistant watering do my plant in? I killed my last gardenia tree last year by overwatering & root rot. Did I kill this one by underwatering?! See photos below to show yellowing and bud wilt. What should I do? Side note, I water with 1 TBSP of vinegar per gallon of water and 1/8 tsp Foilage Pro per gallon and I water until the water exits the drainage hole in the bottom of the pot. No pests to be seen thankfully. I have picked off a lot of fully yellow and mostly yellow leaves already, remaining is about half of original number. Thoughts and ideas on what’s wrong and how to revive the princess would be appreciated. Thanks!!!







  • Sherry8aNorthAL
    4 years ago

    Why are you using anything except water? Most plants don't need fertilizer or anything else more than once a month at most. during a heat wave, I would place the pot in something that holds water. Water until you see overflow in the cache pot. Let it sit for an hour or so to absorb all it needs. Then take it out and let it drain well. It is the setting for days in water that rots roots. I think the water is running through too fast and it doesn't have time to take up what it needs. If you don't want to do that, you need to water daily and just make that it never stands in water.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked Sherry8aNorthAL
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    It’s just the normal fertigation water I normally use. Gardenia are pretty heavy feeders, but I agree, I probably should have left out the fert, even at such a dilute strength when it was so hot. I didn’t think it would bother it honestly since it is half of the reccomended daily watering rate (1/4tsp per gal as per FP label for maint watering). I thought that if it never got to being on the drier side of moist it would start to root rot. Thanks for your input!!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    If you are using a well draining mix then making the pot sit in an inch of water is not going to help much. If you suspect that soil is not getting moist inside (and it is well draining mix) the only way to ensure it is completely wet is to dunk it in a bucket of water. I use 511 mix regularly and never found the need for it unless I let the soil go bone dry.

    Second, moisture meters are notoriously inaccurate. Use a wooden dowel (sharpened at the tip) and stick it in the soil to "judge" moisture at various depths. If the dowel comes out clean it needs water. Lot like measuring done-ness of cakes.

    It is a good idea not to fertilize when it is hot. But at 1/4tsp of FP I doubt it is going to harm the roots.

    I am starting to suspect water quality. If you have hard water like many do, it is hard on many plants. If you can collect rain-water then try flushing the soil with it. Like 2-3 times of copious amounts of water. That will flush out the salts from fertilizer if they have accumulated in the soil. After that use rain water for fertigation. Gardenia and many other plants are sensitive to water quality. They like to be on the acidic side. That also helps to absorb iron easily.

    If you do not have rainwater try bulk drinking water from store. Never use water from water softener if you have one in the house. They will have exact opposite effect on plants. If you have a RO (reverse osmosis) system then that will be a great substitute too.

    In general, you should water well and then let it go dry. If the plant is growing well it will use up the water. Especially in summer. A large pot can supply longer

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Thanks Tropic! I haven’t been able to let it actually get dry on the surface before the buds start wilting and the leaves get dull. The soil still is damp on the surface (not wet, just not dry). And I am horrible at reading a wooden stick...It always feels slightly damp to my cheek and it’s dirty. I guess I need something to compare mine to. Its very frustrating and confusing, it was doing so well before the last blowover / pot breakage.

    We have had a good rain over an inch every week / week and a half so it gets a good flush then. Do I need to do more? I know we have hard city water, :( which is why I was doing the vinegar treatment to the water. The water reads between a 5 and 6 acidity after I add vinegar, but not sure if it is translating to actual soil acidity though. I did a good flush today with plain tap water so hopefully that helps. Will the leaves turn back to green again or are they doomed??? :( Side Note: The buds don’t perk up until sometime at night...other than the yellow leaves it looks beautiful and glossy green at 6am..but then when I get home from work around 1 pm it’s dull and the buds are wilting.

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Looks like the soil is getting flushed via regular rain then and that should work out fine. Vinegar to counter hard water is a good idea too. It is likely just neutralizing the tap water alkalinity. When you add vinegar it will immediately show it to be acidic but over a few hrs it will be consumed. Depending on how alkaline the water is adding vinegar may or may not completely neutralize it.


    Yellow leaves can be for a variety of reasons. One is just regular shedding of lower leaves. Happens mostly in early summer before the new growth begins. Usually it will turn uniformly yellow and shed the leaf. Basically, the plant is withdrawing all the goodies from the leaf to make way for new.


    The other culprit is deficiency of some sort. Nitrogen deficiency shows up as overall yellowing of leaves. Iron and magnesium deficiency are the two other causes. You can try doing a foliar spray of Magnesium first (epsom salt). I would keep it dilute enough eg 1 tsp/gallon. Spray just enough for the leaves. Repeat that in another 3-4 days to see if it greens up. If it does green up, then it indicates that either the soil does not have enough Mg or for some reason the roots are not able to absorb.


    If Mg does not solve the issue then do the same with Iron but later so that you can isolate whether it is Iron or Mg. If the culprit is Iron, then it very likely a soil Ph issue. There is a chelated iron formulation specifically designed for alkaline soil. It is called EDDHA Iron Chelate. It is expensive but it is stable upto Ph of 11. Also I would suggest not to use Ironite. It is made from a mining waste product and has very high levels of arsenic and lead.


    Also do not expect any remedy to work immediately. Sometimes it will take several days before you start noticing any difference.


    If you can give your plant some afternoon shade. Wilting is not always am indication that the soil is dry.

    Too wet soil can also result in wilting. Roots need air to produce energy to absorb and pump the water up. Very wet soils are essentially devoid of air and the roots are unable to do their function properly. The effects show up especially during the hottest part of the day. Lastly leaves also wilt in response to heat and dry air to conserve water and energy. In both cases usually the leaves perk back up again when temperatures drop in the evening.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Ugh, now I think I overwatered it. Since it’s getting droopy buds and dull leaves in the afternoon even though it’s soil is still very moist but then goes back to perfect overnight.


    I don’t think it’s Mg as I’ve sprayed epsom salts in the past with no effect. Plus I have been using Foilage Pro which has all of the macros and micros (granted it gets rain regularly so I don’t know if that washed it away and it needs more than I am giving it). I sprayed today for testing purposes that being said and had added “Iron Tone” this past weekend.


    I moved it to more shaded location this past weekend (4 to 5 hrs of morning sun and rest shade) so we are good in the sense it’s not getting blasted by heat and sun all day.


    So let’s just say I underwatered in the heat wave...and damaged the roots by that mistake...then I overwatered in over compensaion the week after the heat wave. What is the best way to restore the gardenia back to full health? Should I pick off every slightly yellow / yellowing leaf? I am afraid to defoliate it too much as a lot of the leaves have some bit of yellow (1/2 to 1/4). Will the yellowing leaves ever turn back to green? They are still firmly attached. Man if I could get a gardenia to last me one summer I would be happy! Thanks again for all your insight Tropic!!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Can you describe your soil mix? I had assumed that it is a well draining mix but will be good to revisit that.

    When you do a foliar spray use rainwater or drinking water to eliminate the possibility that hard water is interfering with the nutrients. It is hard to say whether the existing yellow leaves will turn back to green - sort of unlikely. If it is lack of Mg then a foliar application of Mg can turn them green. But I would not worry about that too much. And leave them on the plant and let the plant decide when to shed it. My dwarf gardenia has some yellow leaves all the time.

    Vast majority of plant problems can be traced back to the roots. Some like gardenia, citrus, etc have weak roots and do not tolerate either extreme (too dry or too wet) well. The root systems are not very extensive either - reason why they are often labeled as heavy feeders. They are really not heavy feeders but they need more available nutrients to compensate for lack of extensive and strong roots.

    They also do not like extreme variation in root zone temperature either. Actually most plants would not tolerate high root temperatures but these are particularly sensitive. A clay pot keeps the roots cool in hot weather. A large pot also helps but it is essential to have the soil well aerated.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    I used the foxfarm ocean forest blend mixed with perlite (unsifted) in a ratio of 2/3 foxfarm to 1/3 additional perlite. It was draining beautifully for last month as it needed water every other day in typical may / june weather. It has had a harder time drying out since the heat wave; epecially since I was reading the wilting buds / dull leaves as needing water and watering a bit more than normal due to the heat and wilt.

    I use normal tap water for the epsom salt spray (7.8 - 8pH). I have it in a clay pot as it is heavier, cooler, allows for better airflow and less moisture retention. I am afraid to check it’s roots as it has been bareroot repoted in late may and then the pot blew over 3 times breaking the pot causing me to repot. The last one being 10 days prior to the heat wave. It was blooming nicely and glossy green prior to the heat wave. Hope that gives you a better insight. I would LOVE to repot in the gritty mix, but can’t find the bark anywhere near here. Thanks again!!!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Foxfarm products are very peat based and composted stuff. Like similar products they behave well for a few months and start collapsing quickly killing all the air spaces. Does not matter how much perlite you add, it will not be well aerated - unless you go like 75%+ perlite. I bet there lies your problem. It was well aerated in the beginning and now it would not dry out. A quick fix will be to add that ballast back in the pot and/or add a wick at the bottom. In both cases the plant needs to be taken out of the pot - something I understand you are reluctant to do. I would not hesitate to do it though. If you want to do it wait for a coolish/cloudy day and do not wait too long.


    You will be better off with 511 like mix. It is far more stable but still you would need to repot every 2 years. Gritty mix is excellent but you would need to go through a learning curve. It is also very heavy soil and so a large pot will difficult to move around. It is hard to over-water gritty mix and easy to under-water.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    I read your mind! I lifted out the plant and the top half came out nicely with very little disturbance. The bottom 1/2 (no roots) was a water logged mass so I dumped that, added fresh dry foxfarm (all I have right now) with extra perlite and put the plant back on top. I did not water afterwards. I then moved it into the garage with the door open as we are supposed to get heavy thunderstorms for the next 24 hrs. I have always had a wick, but I removed the curved bit of old pot that was over the hole just incase that was reducing the amount of drainage and/or interfering with the wick. I noticed you are in SW PA...where do you get your ingredients for the gritty / 511 mixes? I would much rather have to water more often than worry about root rot!!!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    I get my pine bark from Agway. Usually they have to do order it in. You should look for any Agway store near you. I know a lot of people in north east get their bark from local Agway. Otherwise look for soil conditioner in local nurseries or big box stores. I get large bags of coarse perlite from a local nursery. Granite for gritty I get from a feed store. Turface is available in landscape supply stores. You will have to do a bit of detective work for grit and turface. Turface is used in baseball fields (that is where the name comes from).

    The bottom mix for your pot you could go 80% perlite and 20% foxfarm. It will act as a ballast. And do not be afraid to prune some roots of the bottom and sides. It will encourage new root growth. I regularly prune 1/3rd of roots. I am repotting a very old Indian banyan tree today. I just took off 80%+ of its roots.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks! I there is an Agway up in West Chester, PA so I’ll look there. I am assuming you had to screen it? Earlier this spring I did source the gran-i-grit from a tractor supply and turface like product from napa both in Kennett Square. I just need to find the time to trek on over there. When is the best time to repot and should I go with gritty or 511. I don’t really care if it’s a heavy mix as I’m pretty strong or I can ask the hubs to save the day . I just want something that won’t hold water for too long or break down like this foxfarm mix.. I am worried about winter as I don’t reallly have a great window to put it in front of. I was thinking if putting it in the basement and hanging a light bulb over it...that is if it makes it to winter! LOL

  • armoured
    4 years ago

    An only somewhat related q: any opinions on the expanded clay balls, or expanded clay aggregate for use in potted plants? As part of a mix, not just on their own. I have easy access to these. Seems pretty similar by description to turface.

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    I am rooting for your gardenia to make it through several winters :)) I would suggest go with 511 and skip the lime. That will keep the mix on the acidic side. Gritty takes a bit of learning. Take a few cuttings from your gardenia and root them in small pots with 511 too. They are easy to root. While rooting keep them covered in a plastic tent/box to provide some humidity. That way you will a few more to experiment with.

    For 511 sift it using a 1/2 inch hardware cloth so you end up with dust to 1/2 inch bark. Technically it should be 3/8 inch but it is difficult to find 3/8 inch screen. Perlite needs to be sifted too. Get coarse perlite. Anything over 1/8 is good but you can also use a insect screen (about 1/16) in a pinch. Peat does not need to be screened. Mix the whole thing and wet it well and let it sit in a bucket/bag for a day or two so that it becomes evenly moist.

    Gritty is more complicated. Bark needs to be between 1/8 and 1/4 inch. You will have the winter to sift/mix and be ready fro next season to do more experiments.

    In winter you may need more than one bulb. May be two - one on each side. Also watch out for pests in winter. Gardenia is a woolly aphid magnet.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    armoured: Expanded clay balls that I have seen are a little too big in size. They are similar to turface. If you can find them in the range of 1/8 to 1/4 then they would be great for gritty mix. If they are say upto 3/8 inch then you can use them as a substitute for Perlite in a 511 like mix. In 511 you can probably up the proportion of clay balls relative to bark. If you are using commerical potting mix then bulk of it will have to be clay balls to maintain good aeration of the soil. Something like 80% clay balls and 20% potting mix. I would say start experimenting with it since you have access to it.

    I have used expanded shale (haydite) but in the smaller size range. They hold less water than turface. For potted plants a 50-50 mix of sifted haydite and bark works quite well.

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks Tropic!


    Ok, so I’m going to try to make the 511 in the next few weeks. I think I’ll wait until I can perk this guy up a bit though (unless you think otherwise). Or should I wait until late September for cooler weather / less stress.


    I haven’t watered it since Monday and the meter is reading between 3 and 5 in most areas around the pot (some say 7-8 but thats an odd ball I guess) so I am going to try to wait to water until tomorrow morning though my head says water now. The leaves are looking dullish and of course the buds are drooping (90% of them anyway) but they were doing that before.


    When I make the 511 mix I have a cooling rack (for baking) that measures 3/8 to 1/2” opening so that’s a plus. I don’t have to screen out the dust?

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    If you are going to repot in 511 you will have to bare root the plant. Otherwise you will end up with two very different mixes in the pot and that spells trouble. Which mean tease out all the old mix and replace with 511. It is a task that requires time and patience. I can walk you through it. It may feel a bit daunting at first. You may lose some roots in the process but usually it is not a problem. Do you have pic of the root ball of the plant? Or can you describe how it looks like?

    But most important is timing. Best time to do this, for tropicals, is mid June to July. So you should do it asap if you intend on doing it. The more you wait the less time it has to recover. I would hesitate to do it as long as the highs do not go into 90's.

    After repot it needs to recoup in shade for 1-2 weeks. Not deep shade but bright open shade. You may need to water daily depending on how hot it gets.

    For 511 you do not need to screen out the dust.

    As I said earlier moisture meters are notoriously inaccurate. And they can measure only a few inches deep. A chopstick or dowel is a much better indicator of soil moisture and you can get it deep depending on the length of the stick.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Thanks again! So I bought all the ingredients to make the 511 mix today! I hope be able to make it tomorrow though not looking forward to screening LOL. I need to reread the 511 thread, but If I remember correctly I just screen, mix and moisten and then repot correct? How much should I water after I pot it up?


    I know how to bareroot as I had to do it this spring when I got the plant...it was 100% rootbound so I did a complete bareroot washing all of the soil out of the rootball (well as much as I could considering it was so rootbound. It should be easier this time for sure! I am interested to see how good the roots look. The leaves are horrible...about 1/2 to 2/3rd yellowing :( :(. I will post a pic later...not feeling hopeful! Stay tuned!!! Oh and my meter goes all the way to the bottom of the pot so I feel it is pretty accurate...I think!

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago






  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago





  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    So I made the 511 mix today and did end up of adding the garden lime, because I am a rule follower. Can’t help it! LOL I barerooted the gardenia (sad how much fine roots were missing since the last bareroot in May ) But there are lots of thick white roots and some fine white roots forming too so I am pleased with that!. I pressed the 511 mix (pine bark sifited to 1/2” to dust; 5 parts, horticultural perlite sifted over insect screen to reduce dust; 2 parts, and peat moss (miracle grow); 1 part) into the root ball added soil to the bottom of the pot and a wick that extends through the hole and up to the rootball and lastly filled up the 12” pot to finish (rootball is only 1/2 depth of pot, is this too big now that the roots have reduced?). Next, I gave it just enough of a drink to have water run through the drainage hole. I just used the garden hose for the inital watering in but will go back to my vinegar water next time I water. We are predecited to get storms tonight and tomorrow, should I bring it in the garage? Lastly, do I need to keep it in all shade for a while or can it get some sun during the day? Thanks again for your insight!!! I may be a landscape architect, but I have a really hard time with gardenias! LOL See photos below of my soil / roots:

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago




  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Your mix looks great and the roots look fine too. You should give a very good watering, several times till the water runs clear from the pot. This gets rid of the fine dust that have a tendency to settle to the bottom. Give it it a light fertilizer if you wish.

    Keep it out of Sun for a week and get it into part day Sun and then into longer periods of Sun. Monitor if it droops then get it back to open shade or morning Sun.

    Looking at your leaves it does seem like chlorosis. I would wait a week and give it a full does of FP. If it rains hard follow it up with a full dose of FP. This will replenish the nutrients. Right now it is lacking in nutrients so keep your nutrients level up when you start fertilizing.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Awesome! Thanks! I am really proud of myself for making the 511 mix. I have been meaning to do it for a few months now, but was putting it off thinking the the foxfarm was going to be ok. It was quite therapeutic to sit over a bucket and sift the bark picking out the sap wood and fiberous strands and then mix it all and bareroot. It suits my nerdy tendencies and I am feeling really proud of myself and hopefull for the ol’ gardenia. I will give it a good flush tomorrow with my weak FP and vinegar water until it runs clear. It was a bit cloudy when it exited the pot today on the first watering. I have it closer to the house now so it will only get 2 or 3 hours of morning sun and the rest of the day bright shade. I am looking forward to getting it back to full health! Oh and I did a PWT test with the leftover 511 mix and the PWT is really small! Only 20% of the total volume of soil. So if my calculations are right, only 2” in the 12” pot is perched. Pretty good right? FX all goes well from here! I really appeciate your time and knowledge!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    Great. Next time when you repot untangle the roots and prune the ones that twist and turn so they all end up being straight. Like fan out from the base uniformly. This allows the roots to populate the soil more uniformly. Like when women comb their hair to uniformly distribute and get the tangles out. You can use a chopstick to do this but you can get a metal root rake that makes this task lot easier. Nothing to worry about now.

    scapergirl (7a DE) thanked tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Ok! Will do next time. I did fan it out to sit flat, but I didn’t prune anything to preserve as many roots as possible. Thanks again!

  • Nil13 usda:10a sunset:21 LA,CA (Mount Wash.)
    4 years ago

    I have a pretty windy site. What I do to keep pots from tipping over is add a bunch of pea gravel to the potting medium to increase the bulk density.

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Nil - I am afraid that would affect the drainage of my soiless mix too much. I have it staked and belgium blocks placed around it so that is the best I can do for now. Thanks! On the bright side now that half my canopy is gone from overwatering it probably won't be as top heavy / sail in the wind! hahahaha...sigh :)

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Update: I moved the gardenia on Monday morning it to a bright shaded spot (decided next to the AC unit was a bad idea, though nicely shaded) and it has done wonderfully this past week. We had an amazing rain storm on Wednesday that allowed me to collect 2.5 gallons of H20 for watering this next week. Yea! I gave it a full dose of fert on Thursday morning after the rain.

    Today I moved it to a location that gets easterly sun from 10 am to 2pm. Is that too much much to start? It’s perfect weather here for the next few days, low 80s day and high 60s night!

    Last question, how dry should I let it get to encourage roots? I am showing top end of dry range (3) in root zone and low end of moist range (4.5) in bottom of pot. I am hoping to get leaves to sprout on the bare branches, but I don’t know if there is a way to do that other than just let it do its thing. Lots of leaf sprouts on tips of branches though!

  • tropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
    4 years ago

    After a bare-root repot I usually my plants in bright open shade spot for a week. Then move it to a sunny spot where it gets morning to early afternoon Sun. But it depends on the plant. If you see it wilting then move it back to a shaded area.

    After repot I do water it more frequently. Like every other day. Bare-rooting does some damage to the roots especially the fine ones. So I give it a lot of water initially to compensate for lack of enough fibrous roots. Fresh 511 will drain pretty quick and there will be lots of air spaces. No need to worry about root rot now. After about 10 days or so I will wait for it to dry out a bit more before watering. I have never used moisture meters so I am not sure how to interpret it.

  • scapergirl (7a DE)
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Sounds good. I should have watered it yesterday, but I waited until this morning to do so. Nothing was wilting but the leaves certainly didn’t look as glossy. I now know what level to let it get to (3 on a 1 to 10 scale of dryness). I also measured with a wooden skewer as well so I can see what that looks like for future reference.

    It’s hard not to worry about too much watering now! LOL I’m going to water every other day as every third day was a bit too much drying at this point in its growth cycle. Maybe another week with morning sun (dappled until 10 am and then full until 1 pm) and watering every other day. Thanks again for all your insight!

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