Did you design this yourself?

Is there a reason for all that seating? You have seating at the island and 2 other tables. It seems excessive.

@cpartist - no - our architect designed this

@vinmarks - dining area with round table will act as an office / dining space. Forgot to mention that we have a large families and would need that space for overflow when we entertain.

There's the 50' walk from the bed to the toilet in the middle of the night.

The foyer that's larger than the living room.

The almost 2' of wasted space in the downstairs bedroom closet.

The angled jog one has to make to get to the shower in the downstairs bathroom.

There's seating for 10 in the dining room but only enough room to seat 6 in the living room.

One very skimpy window in the kitchen so the kitchen will be very dark.

A powder room that's the size of a full bathroom.

What is the useless space on the first floor lower right?

The two master closets and hallway there are larger than the living room.

The laundry room is only 5'4" wide which means you only have 34" to move and turn around in the room.

The toilet in bedroom 212 will be heard by those in the master bedroom

Bedroom 212 is larger than the master?

What is that useless space as you enter bedroom 204?

Here in red is all the pathways. Notice how little actual living space there is?

There seems to be a lot of sq footage devoted to circulation in this plan. I am concerned that there are a lot of "spaces" here and that none of them are going to be as roomy as the foyer. (that thing is HUGE!)

It has already been mentioned that you have a lot of space devoted to seating / eating - and with regard to the island / kitchen table (?) they are simply too close together to not be repetitive. I've seen this "inline" configuration in several fixer upper episodes, and while I like it - it's because they are going for more of a casual living / open floorplan arrangement and don't have a separate formal dining.

Compare your foyer to the actual great room space (taking into consideration the pathways needed to get to the downstairs bedroom and access the backyard. The usable space is about the size of your sectional. In a home of this size - that common area needs to be bigger (or have another one)

Doors - not 100% sure I understand the door swings. I don't usually see outswing doors - and while the double doors at lease solve the issue of sucking floor space - I am not sure they are efficient / secure. I've also never seen an outswing door going INTO a garage. Imagine having an armful of grocery bags and having to maneuver around the door on the landing.

Kitchen - I think it needs work. The change in the main sink / dishwasher area makes sense to somewhat separate it from the cooktop / range - but it seems way too far away to be cohesive to the rest of the design.

The mudroom seems odd. These are better served usually if they are part of a pathway - so if you want things to be left/ dropped there instead if cluttering the kitchen - I don't see that happening. Your purpose for that room may be different.

Downstairs bedroom - is that for older guests? future master? Right now - not sure about the 2 doors into the bathroom. And that sure would be nice to have more light / access to the outside. :-(

Much more to add (not addressing 2nd floor) - where are you located? seems like a LOT of plumbing on outside walls which may / may not be a concern.

I see some novel things here, and some creativity, but I don't think that the proportions are giving you the best use of space.

@cpartist - no - our architect designed this

Architect or draftsman/designer?

I can't believe a talented architect would make a bathroom 50' from the bedroom.

I can't believe a talented architect would design that very strange entry into the bedroom on the right with that weird useless space.

I can't believe a talented architect would design a downstairs bathroom and not even put enough room between the toilet and the vanity to get to the shower.

I can't believe a talented architect would make the foyer larger than the living room and knowing you have large families and entertain would make a living room where you can seat a maximum of 6 people.

I can't believe a talented architect would devote so much room to a powder room when it's obvious you need living space.

I can't believe a talented architect would devote so little space to the laundry room width.

There appears to be a TV in every bedroom; did you request this or did the designer assume your family live reclusive lives??

So, I kind of like it. Although, I’m not a fan of open concept, but some are so I won’t say anything about that.

The upstairs hall bath, I don’t like the door right at the top of the stairs and you’re right, it’s too small. Move the bedroom door into the bedroom, and use the newly-available space to move the bathroom door back and enlarge the bathroom. Don’t do a double-sink , though; more counter and drawer storage below are a better use of the space.

(janni, I’ve lived in two houses where the garage door opens into the garage. I don’t know why. Not a problem, it’s just what one gets used to.)

but, it does look a little inconvenient for all but the driver of the left-hand car to get to the stairs. How big is your lot? Do you have room to expand the garage a bit? Do you have room for the trash and recycling bins, and to roll them out without backing out the cars? What about bicycles? Do you have yard maintenance equipment? Snowblower?

Definitely widen the window over the sink!

There appears to be a TV in every bedroom; did you request this or did the designer assume your family live reclusive lives??

Mark we have a TV in every bedroom and we only lead semi-reclusive lives.

I'm with bpath - I sort of like it, though I think there's lots of room for improvement, too.

As others have pointed out, there's lots of space devoted to dining and to circulation, while there are some other parts of the house that are tight. I think you'd end up with a more enjoyable house if you get a better balance between those thing.

You have three major indoor dining areas (large island, formal dining room, and great room dining), seating a total of 23, with additional outdoor seating for eight. You're a family of four who occasionally entertains larger extended family. How often do you have the extended family over for meals? You're sacrificing having space devoted to your family's every day use to have dedicated space for occasional gatherings. I would look for ways to eliminate one of the indoor dining space, and then have the ability to expand the remaining one if needed for large groups. You could get rid of the table in the great room (which would allow you to expand the living room portion) and use the formal dining room for meals for your immediate family. Or you could make the dining area in the great room your single dining area and set the current formal dining room up as a den/study for your family's use with a desk, comfortable seating, etc.. Under either scenario, you could have additional temporary tables you set up when you have a larger gathering.

In the master, the walk from bedroom to toilet is just crazy. You're also giving up a tremendous amount of living space for that long hallway. I think that space needs some serious thought. The tub/shower portion of the bathroom also seems to have some wasted space.

In the downstairs (guest?) bathroom, rearrange things so the sink/toilet/shower are all on a single wall.

The well-lit foyer and staircase are great, but they're also very, very big. I'd look to shrink them while keeping the same general layout, if you like it.

"Mark we have a TV in every bedroom and we only lead semi-reclusive lives."

But your kids are not returning home to recluse. The OP still has two kids living at home.

And when I come over, I am not going to be watching TV.

But your kids are not returning home to recluse.

They better not!

@cpartist: Thank you very much for your input, really appreciate it! In response to your comments above, see below:

There's the 50' walk from the bed to the toilet in the middle of the night: I am thinking of closing up the entryway to the master, reduce the closet sizes, and shift the master closets to the left. Do you or anyone else have any suggestions as to how to arrange the master closets and bathroom in the master better?

The foyer that's larger than the living room: Agreed, will look into this.

The almost 2' of wasted space in the downstairs bedroom closet: Could you elaborate on this?

The angled jog one has to make to get to the shower in the downstairs bathroom: I assume this comment is for the guest bathroom. Thanks for pointing this out.

There's seating for 10 in the dining room but only enough room to seat 6 in the living room: After several of you commented on this, perhaps we will eliminate the breakfast dining area and expand our family room.

One very skimpy window in the kitchen so the kitchen will be very dark: Agreed, was thinking of expanding the kitchen window here.

A powder room that's the size of a full bathroom: Will look into reducing this space and making it more efficient

What is the useless space on the first floor lower right? Do you mean the area right in front of the guest bath? If so, that’s just a window bench which we will look to eliminate. We were thinking of shifting the bathroom by guest room out into this space

The two master closets and hallway there are larger than the living room: Will look into reducing MBR closets (as mentioned above)

The laundry room is only 5'4" wide which means you only have 34" to move and turn around in the room: What do you suggest the width to be?

The toilet in bedroom 212 will be heard by those in the master bedroom: Noted, will look to reconfigure

Bedroom 212 is larger than the master?: Will look to re-configure this space

What is that useless space as you enter bedroom 204? That I’m not sure of. I am looking to reconfigure this area anyway.

Here in red is all the pathways. Notice how little actual living space there is? Noted on this and thanks again for pointing out.

Architect or draftsman/designer? Architect.

@just_janni – Thanks for your input!

Agree the foyer is huge. Will look to re-configure this room.

We like the idea of having an eat-in kitchen, but if it’s at the expense of the family room, we will reconsider. The dining area labeled as such will likely be an office and dining space (when there is overflow).

I think the walk-in pantry and mudrooms are taking up the family room space, so if there is a way of re-configuring this space so I could fit in an eat-in table, it would be great. I would love to see if anyone has any ideas on re-configuring both the walk-in pantry and mudroom?

Doors: Noted on the swings for the outdoor spaces and garage area

Kitchen: Still needs tweaking here

Mudroom: Do you have suggestions on how to reconfigure this room? Not entirely sure what you mean?

Downstairs bedroom: It’s for our aging parents or when we get older. I made it dual access for the bathroom. In the event we have guests, we will close off the hallway access

Plumbing: We prefer to have natural light in the bathrooms. What about the plumbing should I be concerned about?

Thanks!

@bpath
Oh Sophie – Thanks for your feedback!

On the upstairs hall bath, will look to extend
the counter here as opposed to adding an extra sink.

What is the ideal size of a 2 car garage to accommodate
all the items you mentioned? If I extend the garage, I would
have to cut-back on the interior space - where would you suggest I reduce the sq footage in the interior?

Yes, will widen the window by the sink.

Thanks again!

@Kristin S – Thanks for your feedback and everything you mentioned makes a lot of sense.

Will look to reconfigure master bedroom including closets and bathroom. The reason why architect drew it this way was because we wanted the master closets closer to the master bathroom. The size of the closets can be reduced and I don't mind getting rid of the master entryway and shifting everything to the left or if there is a better use of space in another room, I would definitely consider. Part of the reason why the master is in the back corner is because it faces the backyard and the pool. We have a pretty private backyard. Open to any suggestions.

Will reconfigure downstairs guest suite bathroom.

Will look to shrink foyer / stairs area.

Thanks again!

Here would be my thought to rework the pantry/mudroom area. You could then either move the kitchen back (which gives you more living room space, but makes it long and narrow) or just take out space from the middle of the house. Or a combination of both. I would shrink the island and cooktop wall so that you could add pantry cabinets along that nice interior wall, easily accessible to the kitchen. Then use what you currently have as the mudroom as a storage closet for cleaning products/dry goods, etc. that don't make sense in the pantry cabinets. I find mudrooms more useful as walk though spaces, so I'd make the pass through by the powder bath and walk-in storage the mudroom space.

This would be my first thought for rearranging the master closets and bathroom. The bathroom needs more work (I'd move the shower, bath, and vanities around), but I flipped it this way to show the toilet located closer to the bedroom. This still seems too far, but it shows the idea of putting the closets on both sides parallel to each other, rather than sequential. Getting rid of the entry hall for the master would help, too. Perhaps put the entry where the chairs are now and move the seating area to by the windows?

BTW: Does the garage need to be out front like that? Is there a reason you chose this long linear configuration for the house versus maybe an L or other shape?

@cpartist:

For garage - the reason why it’s jutted out like that is because the backyard has a pool and it consumes the space directly behind the garage and the kitchen.

Lot Size is 175’ x 100’. I am at maximum buildable lot right now and we don’t particularly love L shaped homes.

@cpartist: Thank you very much for your input, really appreciate it! In response to your comments above, see below:

Happy to help.

Do you or anyone else have any suggestions as to how to arrange the master closets and bathroom in the master better?

Here's what I did in our house. Obviously our closets are smaller as we are retired in FL and don't need a lot of clothes anymore. However the general idea is still good with the idea that on either side of the "hallway" to the bath you make a walk in closet.

The almost 2' of wasted space in the downstairs bedroom closet: Could you elaborate on this?

See the area circled in red. How do you get to that space without the door? It's for reasons like this that I'm questioning the architect. This is design 101.

The angled jog one has to make to get to the shower in the downstairs bathroom: I assume this comment is for the guest bathroom. Thanks for pointing this out.

Yes, the downstairs guest bathroom. It looks like it's barely large enough to squeeze through and what makes me concerned is you're intending this for your parents. Assuming your parents are mobile now, what happens when they're less so?

Again how the architect laid out this bathroom makes me question his/her skill set.

There's seating for 10 in the dining room but only enough room to seat 6 in the living room: After several of you commented on this, perhaps we will eliminate the breakfast dining area and expand our family room.

Or you reconfigure all the spaces so they will work better for you and your family. This house as designed does not seem to be family friendly. It's missing an away space for example. Where do you go when the family wants to watch a movie and you want to read a book?

Where do the kids go when they want to play some video game?

A powder room that's the size of a full bathroom: Will look into reducing this space and making it more efficient

A full sized powder room really doesn't need to be much larger than 5' - 6' square

What is the useless space on the first floor lower right? Do you mean the area right in front of the guest bath? If so, that’s just a window bench which we will look to eliminate. We were thinking of shifting the bathroom by guest room out into this space

It's an odd configuration and a very odd space. Again it makes me question the thinking of your architect.

The laundry room is only 5'4" wide which means you only have 34" to move and turn around in the room: What do you suggest the width to be?

Considering 36" as a pathway in a kitchen is considered the minimum I would certainly suggest you do nothing less than 4' in front of the machines and more would be a bit better. As it is now, only one person can get into/out of the laundry room at a time. You need room to open the washer and dryer and to move stuff from one to the other. You need room to put a basket on the floor. And as the kids get older, I would think you'd want them helping you.

Bedroom 212 is larger than the master?: Will look to re-configure this space

Again this is something that makes me question the architect's skill or lack thereof.

What is that useless space as you enter bedroom 204? That I’m not sure of. I am looking to reconfigure this area anyway.

Why would an architect create a space like that? I expect that from a so called designer or a draftsman but not a licensed architect.

Architect or draftsman/designer? Architect.

Question, is this plans you gave him and he just adjusted or is this his idea? How did you come to this plan?

Also if he's a licensed architect, I'm assuming you have the elevations to go with the floor plan? And how the house will be sited on the lot? Can you post those? If not, I again question this "architect's" abilities.

I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but I really would expect more from a licensed professional. :)

On the downstairs guest - perhaps make a powder room that is larger, and then a separate shower room that is larger (if you shrink the foyer and the "leftover" space). That would give access to a powder room for guests (vs the "family" powder by the kitchen I presume), but still offer an accessible bath for someone that might have mobility issues. I'd also suggest an exterior door for that room, as well.

For the mudroom - just try to have the entry from the garage into the mudroom as opposed to having to take a left to get into it - kinda like it was reconfigured. Force the entrance through the mudroom so if you have a bench / shoe area, etc at least someone (kid...) has to WALK RIGHT PAST IT and can easily shed shoes, backpacks, coats, etc.

For the bathrooms - agree you want natural light! Just consider moving the pieces of the bath so that the plumbing runs are on interior walls and not exterior - i.e. have the toilet and sink back up to the inside rather than the outside. And if the shower is on the outside wall - have the shower head on an interior one.

For the upstairs bedroom that faces front perhaps have THAT room be the teen hangout room (since it does not have an en suite) and then you could enlarge the Laundry. Just think about the new washing machines- they are actually about 33' deep and with the front loading doors open, they can be 51". You are showing 64" of overall width. Laundry is painful enough! ;-)

The house is organized around a central spine (good!), but still devotes too much room to circulation and the oddly shape / undefined spaces cost just as much as the thoughtful, purposeful ones!

We like the idea of having an eat-in kitchen, but if it’s at the expense of the family room, we will reconsider. The dining area labeled as such will likely be an office and dining space (when there is overflow).

I love an eat in kitchen and I configured my house to have the eat in kitchen and an island with some seating. In your situation do you really want office stuff all over the dining table so when people walk in that's one of the first things they see?

How often do you entertain that you need multiple seating areas?

Doors: Noted on the swings for the outdoor spaces and garage area

In FL all doors must swing out for wind resistance. I even have my garage door swing out but I made sure my landing is long enough to accommodate the door swinging out.

Personally while I LOVE french doors, I'd consider sliders instead. I think it saves more room both on the interior and exterior.

Mudroom: Do you have suggestions on how to reconfigure this room? Not entirely sure what you mean?

Normally the best mudrooms are where you enter in from the outside and you have a place right there to dump your stuff (cubbies, hooks, etc). People, especially the smaller kinder kind tend to come in an just drop stuff wherever it's easiest for them. By making them go into a separate room, means more steps for them and making it less easy for them.

I'm a firm believer in making things as easy as possible for all to avoid those irksome things. (It's why I built a coffee cabinet for my DH. Now when he leaves the pods on the counter, I don't have to see them since the cabinet is closed.)
Downstairs bedroom: It’s for our aging parents or when we get older. I made it dual access for the bathroom. In the event we have guests, we will close off the hallway access

It's not going to work for aging parents. You need to think accessible and this isn't it. Even having to go down that hallway in the middle of the night and make a turn into the bathroom, especially if either one ever needs a walker, is going to be more difficult.

Plumbing: We prefer to have natural light in the bathrooms. What about the plumbing should I be concerned about?

Do you live in a cold climate? If so plumbing on the outside walls can be an issue with pipes freezing etc.

We live in the PNW and still prefer outswing doors for wind resistance. They key in this corner of the world is to make sure that they're covered so they're protected from the rain.

My mom built a mudroom that was off to the side like you show when my brother and I were little. And we then drove her nuts for the rest of our childhoods by dumping our coats, shoes, and backpacks in the hallway next to the mudroom, rather than walk the extra two steps to put them in the designated mudroom spaces. We nonetheless made the same mistake in our current house, so the mudroom doesn't get used well. In our under-construction house we're going with the style of mudroom that I heard called a mud hall - it's just a wide hallway from the garage to the house with hooks, storage, etc., along the sides, so you can't avoid it.

Is there a lot of wind in the garage?

Ha! Somehow I was just looking at the patio. Our house to garage door is in swinging.

Is there a lot of wind in the garage?

Depends on how much testosterone is in there.

Is there a lot of wind in the garage?

LOL. No unless someone had a fatty meal. Don't ask me why we did that because I have no memory as to why anymore.

I think there is a need to define the term "wind".

If it's enough that it will impact the door swing / resistance, I want nothing to do with it...

@just_janni

Thanks for the guest bath suggestions

For the mudroom, I don’t think it was very clear on the floor plan. My bad for not explaining. Right now, as you walk in from the garage, to the left where it’s labeled “Mudroom”, it’s actually a large closet. I was going to store winter coats, sport equipment, and cleaning supplies there. Right behind the pantry back wall is actually a row of cubbies.

Thanks for advising on the plumbing for the bathrooms.

For the upstairs bedroom that faces front, we didn’t want that to be the teen hangout room because it was closer to the rest of the bedrooms. We thought the far corner closest to the stairs made more sense (due to noise level). As for enlarging the laundry room in this space, we didn’t do it because, we wanted to maximize the windows in the front bedroom and if we extended the laundry room, we would end up with just one window here.

@cpartist:

Thanks for providing a version of your master floor plan (makes more sense now).

As for the away space, I was going to use one of the bedrooms upstairs as a hangout room (probably the one closest to the stairs as it’s further away from all the rooms). I’ve been seeing loft spaces carved out on the 2nd level of homes and thought that spot worked well. We also have a basement that we could choose to finish at a later point.

Good to know about the measurements of a full sized powder room. Will definitely look to reduce this area as I could always use that extra sq footage for cleaning supplies.

Will look to see where we could reconfigure the laundry room, but I prefer to have larger bedrooms vs. dedicating space to a laundry room.

Bedroom 212 looks bigger, but the pitch of the ceilings where the bed is currently placed right now is lower here. I would have preferred to put the bed in the middle of this room, but because I wanted an en-suite with natural light, it shifted everything else over. The other potential spot for the bathroom was where the laundry room is now (but no natural light here). I didn’t want to put the bathroom in the front of the bedroom either (faces front of house).

Architect came up with initial plans based on some of my requirements and we have been working to adjust the plans to fit our needs. For example, the two story staircase was something we requested and the foyer size was her idea. We don’t have elevations yet, as the plans I shared were just in the concept phase.

For dining area, was thinking of having a built- in which would act as a buffet / filing cabinet, so this would hopefully hide all the paperwork.

We entertain at least once a month and we felt the island alone was not enough as most people end up in the kitchen and it made sense to have an extra table next to the kitchen (not everyone likes to sit on the island).

We will likely have slider doors in the family room.

In terms of the mudroom, it wasn’t clear on my floor plan that the area labeled as "Mudroom" is in fact a large closet to store winter coats, sports equipment, cleaning supplies. The cubbies are lined up behind the back wall of the pantry (is this what you mean by walking straight in dropping off stuff?).

We wanted a walk-in pantry because I hate cluttering the counters (we have that problem now) and by having a walk-in pantry, I can house all my kitchen appliances hidden behind a closed door.

Will re-think the bathroom space for downstairs guest room.

Yes, we live in a cold climate, so will consider the piping in our design.

Thanks again!

@Kristin S:

Thanks so much for drawing out the master bedroom plan. It makes a lot more sense now. I actually like it.

I agree about closing off the entry in the master as it seems like wasted space right now.

Thanks again!

Hi All,

After seeing all the comments above, I am curious to know what the ideal size for a family room is?

As for the foyer space, I would like to keep the 2 story staircase, but does anyone have suggestions as to how to reduce the foyer area? Is there room to create another small room here? (i.e. reading room, music room, homework station, etc).

Thanks!

For example, the two story staircase was something we requested and the foyer size was her idea. We don’t have elevations yet, as the plans I shared were just in the concept phase.

The architects here will correct me if I''m wrong, but an architect doesn't design a concept without also showing the concept of the elevations and how it will fit on the lot. They are all done in conjunction. Draftsmen design one floor at a time and then put an elevation on. Again, I truly wonder at the competency of your architect.

After seeing all the comments above, I am curious to know what the ideal size for a family room is?

The ideal size is what will work for you and your family and how you live in the house. I built a 17'4" x 20'10" living/great room because even though it's just the two of us, we too like to entertain. Someone else who is our age might be happy with something a lot smaller.

As for the foyer space, I would like to keep the 2 story staircase, but does anyone have suggestions as to how to reduce the foyer area? Is there room to create another small room here? (i.e. reading room, music room, homework station, etc).

I'm sorry but this is not something we should have to figure out for you. Not because we don't want to, but because this is why you hired a licensed architect. It's her job to work it all out. That's why you're paying her what I assume is a good sum of money.

Did you first sit down and figure out what your actual needs are and what your wants are? If you needed a music room, it should have been designed into the plans in the beginning. If you needed a reading room, same thing.

Also understand, designing a house is not like moving boxes around like on a tetris game. One thing affects the next, etc.

@cpartist - Maybe I misunderstood your question, but architect did provide a general shape of exterior of home with how windows are going to look (front side only for now). Were you asking for approx measurements of roof pitches and window placement - is that what you mean? I’ve seen the 3d rendering of it so far (on computer screen while in her office). Thanks

So she wasn't working in a vacuum but as she was working on the interior she was also conceptualizing the exterior? Front and back? Or was that added AFTER she did the floor plan?

In my experience, it’s not uncommon for architects not to show clients all the elevations at each step of the design process (and architects in here have said this, as well.) This doesn’t mean they’re not designing and envisioning it that way, just that it doesn’t make sense to draw it out each time, especially if the client isn’t able to visualize how they interact and prefers to focus their review on the floor plan.

OP is pretty clear that they have a licensed architect; at some point, we have to take their word for it.

Off topic: I have a question for cpartist and all are welcome to answer.

I see cpartist often highlights the pathways on a house plans to show how much actual living space is left. I find it very interesting and I useful. My question is, to what extend should we minimize the pathways? Where is it appropriate and what size is optimal vs where is it too much and a waste of space?

Our great room (living room) is 20x20 and is definitely too small. But I am probably not a good one to give input on this (but I will anyway). I love large rooms with lots of space to maneuver and don’t care for a room that looks and feels like it’s been crammed with lots of furniture because it’s too small. In our space we have seating that can basically fit 6 comfortably (we have a large sofa, 2 club chairs, and one other chair). For just our immediate family though, if we are all gathered together, we would need 10 seats, so we are 4 seats short. Now add to that larger get-togethers, and we are really lacking in seating. Obviously, if you have 40 people over you will not be able to seat everyone, but it’s nice (at the very least) to be able to accommodate your immediate family so that everyone has a place to sit down in the living room.

So.....if I had to do it over, I would definitely make our main living space at least 25x25 (and that’s just the living room with no added eating area). With that size, there could even be a small game table spot.

I think it’s important to take into account how much seating you feel you need for your family (and guests if you entertain a lot), and then from that point design a room that will easily accommodate the furniture needed to seat your family and friends.....especially if you only have this one room.

So, my mentality is to make the room large enough so you’re not squeezed in and to make sure there is ample square footage to accommodate the needed furniture.

Thank you @nidnay, @kristin s, @cpartist! Will need to go back to the drawing board now.

About the larger powder room- if you will have guests with walkers or plan to age in place a larger more accessible space could be good. however your current room is too narrow. In your shoes I migh aim to make the powder and first floor bath large so they can. be made accessible in the future.