Had a Miele that came with the house which we replaced when it was about 15 years old or so. Bought another one. Bought one for the new house (still have the old house) 3 years ago. All are still working very well. We love them - they're very quiet, energy and water efficient, they load extremely well with a very efficient use of space, and we love the 3rd rack for cutlery. One repair person I talked to who was doing work on our stove called Bosch "Miele wannabes." He wasn't impressed - told me they require a lot more repairs than Miele. I have a friend who had a Miele in her old house, moved to a new house with a KitchenAid already installed (from the look of it, I'd put it at about 5 years old) and the thing has to be the most inefficient-loading dishwasher I've ever encountered. The bottom rack arrangement is horrible.

The problem with actual user reviews is some are often for appliances that are still fairly new. Hard to judge the longevity. You also can't go by positive comments for really old appliances. You won't find that same quality in new ones these days.

We had a repair technician come to our house a couple years ago for a 4-yr-old Whirlpool washing machine that died. We got to talking about appliances in general, and he told me his vote goes to KitchenAid for the kitchen. Who knows since other technicians would likely tell you something different.

We replaced a 15 year old Kenmore with a kitchen aid 2-1/2 years ago. We love it. The cycle is longer but it works so much better and it’s very quiet. For under 1k well worth it.

The reasonably-priced KitchenAid KDTM354DSS was the top-rated KitchenAid dishwasher tested though it scored slightly below models from other manufacturers. KitchenAid's predicted reliability is also only "Good". You can check ratings at CR for $8. Also sold by Best Buy. Lots of owners' anecdotal reviews on HD and BB.

If the only problem with the current dishwasher is the door panel, you might want to see if you can replace it at KitchenAid parts.

Currently looking to replace my Kitchenaid which I purchased in 2013. It was not an inexpensive model can’t remember but over 800
Or more. Things Started out great and I loved it! Overtime it has been getting louder and louder and at this point is making a very loud grinding sound. My husband wants to have it repaired but I’m guessing the repair will be hundreds and I don’t think it’s worth it. I am thinking Bosch so I’m curious what others experienced.

Gutted our kitchen 3 years ago, and put in a Bosch 800 dishwasher. Does a great job of cleaning, and is very quiet. Only plastic containers don’t dry completely. We bang off the excess water, and let them air dry on a pad. No big deal.

I’m so fascinated by this conversation. Our Bosch smelled like plastic for three months and then never worked as well as they 1990’s DW it replaced. I feel like I must have been a dud, but I am so scarred that I don’t know that I could do a Bosch DW again because it was such an utter disappointment. Even so, we are doing a Bosch induction cooktop, double ovens and fridge in the new kitchen, but I cannot in good conscience do their DW again.

Love our Bosch. It did have the fishy odor thst many others online have complained about but that was our error. The hose under the sink has to have a high loop and connect right under the counter, as high as possible. Otherwise, the dishwasher won’t drain properly. Problem solved..

When I was last looking at dishwashers in July 2017, I had a hard time deciding between lower end Bosch and KA models. Ultimately, I went with KA based on the bottom rack configuration. Your needs may be different from mine, but that is something to consider.

I know how you feel mlee! My kitchenaid dishwasher is twelve years old and I just love it! I love the large capacity and how quiet it is. When we remodel in the future it will be hard to part with!!!

Get another KA! We bought the model KDTE204GPS 14 months ago and could not be happier with it. We actually bought the same model today for our vacation home.

In Consumer Reports testing, the KitchenAid KDTM354DSS ($700 at Lowes) washed and dried better than the KitchenAid KDTE204GPS ($650), has a self-cleaning filter that the latter does not, and costs only $50 more. I think it's worth the upcharge.

As one of the Kitchen Aid reviewers in Consumer Reports, I suggest you keep your current Kitchen Aid. We purchased the KDTE254ESS 2 years ago. Used it daily, scraped/rinsed dishes prior to washing, cleaned filter weekly, cleaned the dishwasher interior weekly with citric acid powder sold by the small appliance store we purchased dishwasher from.

Last week, I called to request a replacement top rack because calcium deposits from our tap water had made the rack so brittle, it broke so that it no longer attached to the drawer slides. It’s hard to describe because it’s almost 1am here and I’m exhausted but will get a picture tomorrow. Also, upon receiving new rack I determine that installing a new rack won’t fix the thing because what is actually broken is a part that attaches to the rack and the drawer slides. AAAAAAGH, as in, Charlie Brown.

I have much more to say about Ol’ Faithless, but will save for tomorrow

I had 3 KA dishwashers in the past, so when I renovated my vacation rental home in 2012 I purchased another one. Not a good idea. They've totally changed, in my opinion. Doesn't clean great, doesn't dry great, and as Lorrie H said, makes a very loud grinding noise. My mother's KA does the same thing.

When we renovated our kitchen a few years ago I purchased the Bosch and love it. Super quiet and gets dishes very clean. The only problem is the plastics, as many posters have mentioned.

Nicole N Sunshine,

Scraping and rinsing before loading can accelerate deterioration of rack coatings ... reason being the detergent is overly aggressive without enough food soil residue on which to act. Pre-rinsing is b-a-d ... especially with the uncontrolled (over)dosage of pods/pacs/tablets.

Don't scrape and rinse! (although I do admit to some scraping in the summer - don't want the dw to get stinky in the heat). My decision to get another KA was based on my last one lasting 15 years. Also, my coworker and SIL both got Bosch in the last two years and neither are crazy about it. My SIL says it doesn't load well and appears small inside. She also says it does a poor job of drying dishes. My coworker's almost started a fire shortly after install (although I don't know if that was due to a poor install job).

I am also a sucker for the KA's very attractive knurled handle.

The front panel can be changed if you aren't ready to replace the unit.

I had the exact opposite experience as you. I went through 2 Kitchen Aid dishwashers that were on the top end of their line over a period of 13 years and hated them. A year ago I switched to an entry level Bosch 800 series and wow, what a difference! It cleans so much better than the Kitchen Aids ever did.

Same here. We have a mid-line KitchenAid in the in-law unit. Thanks to poor organization of the racks, it hold fewer dishes than our Miele. During most washing cycles, it leaves a couple of dishes that stay dirty and have to be hand-washed afterwards. And it has plastic clips holding the top bracket which fail about once a year, making the basked crash down. Replacement parts only cost about $20, but the newly redesigned ones seem even more flimsy, they broke after about 3 months.

On the other hand, the Miele in our main kitchen has never had any repairs. I don't remember exactly when we bought it, but I think it must be at least 8 years old by now.

I don't regret buying the KitchenAid, as it doesn't get used that frequently, and the cost savings were worth it in that case. But for a everyday-use dishwasher, I am glad I sprung for a higher-quality appliance that doesn't cause me grief on a regular basis.

Here’s a pic of the (failed) bracket attaching the top rack to the drawer slides.

We had our original Kitchen Aide dishwasher for 17 years and replaced it with another KA a year ago. It works wonderfully and dries! It always gets everything clean and is super quiet ...

It's really hard to see in that picture, but the entire weight of the basket rests on four small plastic pieces. That's inevitably going to break over time.

It has nothing to do with scraping the basket or with using the wrong detergent.

Also, KitchenAid uses lower grade plastic for these parts. All of the plastic pieces in my KA show signs of deterioration. On the other hand, my Miele dishwasher is older, gets used more, and the plastic parts look like new.

There is a very clear quality difference. But then there also is a very clear price difference.

"...the best recommendation you can get is from an experienced dishwasher repair person. They can tell you which dishwashers they are always working on, and which ones they never see."

Pretty much the reason I mentioned the repair tech telling me KitchenAid was a good bet. It's just that it can depend on the tech you talk to.

After reading all the comments about dishes not getting clean, just thought I'd throw out another factoid: Most of today's dishwashers are calibrated for use with HE (high efficiency) detergents. So take a quick check to make sure you're buying the right stuff. Also, I noticed with my Thermador that dishwasher detergent pods work much better than liquid detergent. No residue at all. FWIW. :-)

My Dad just bought a new kitchen aid DW. He searched by decibels, stainless, and an extra top rack. It’s really quiet which is nice when you have an open kitchen. I have an older KA. It’s pretty quiet. I don’t do the “normal wash” because it does clean as we’ll as the 1-hr wash. I use Cascade powder detergent.

I've had my Bosch (unsure of the model) for 7 years. As long as I use Finish Powerball Quantum it cleans like an absolute champ. Everything sparkles. It takes a while and could be less noisy, but neither of those are important to me. The interior arrangement could be better. I'm constantly rearranging odd-shaped items. Nothing will ever beat my old Kenmore for its ability to always have room for one more large dish.

@Nicole N Sunshine: My—and I assume every—Miele has a built-in salt reservoir (water softener); your KA doesn’t? I’m surprised to hear that a two year-old dishwasher doesn’t have that feature. Hate to say it, but, hard water needs to be treated one way or the other—either on a whole-house level or at the individual fixture level—or or you’ll end up with nasty crud every time, regardless of manufacturer. What’s keeping you from treating your water?

For those that have a new Bosch or Miele (and love it)- can you share the model number?

Also- I loved the idea of just changing out the front panel! I looked but my panel is so old it’s no longer made. I also want stainless or panel ready and it never came in those options. It’s a dinosaur!

I have the Bosch 300. Least expensive panel ready option. Decided that Bosch makes good DWs, period. Not worth it spending double and triple for extra features I was very likely never going to use anyway.

I almost always run it on the default cycle, I never even turn on the extra drying option.

When I have lots and lots of people at the house, I have used the speed cycle once in a while. But that's what, 3 to 4 times a year. The thing runs quiet, cleans everything to sparkling every time and everything is dry at the end. I'm happy.

For those of you with Bosch, do you really get used to the layout of the tines?

Yes. The upper tray holds more than the basket. You appreciate the space freed up in the lower level because the cutlery basket isn’t there. Not bending over to load/unload the cutlery is nice. And I find that unloading the dishwasher is more efficient using the upper tray if. You’ve loaded forks together, spoons together, etc.

We were thinking that removing the basket in the bottom would free up space but with no tines there at all and the shape we weren't quite sure what we'd use it for. How do you use it?

Seems when I see photos of the Bosch loaded it's not with many pots or bigger items. We always wash pots etc in the dishwasher.

I was considering a Kitchen aid because it has more normal tines but it is so deep it won't really work with a custom panel, which is what I want

My experiences:

GE Profile -- avoid, we had to replace the motor twice. Purchased in 1995, so they may be different today

Maytag -- great DW, but it was bought in the late 90s, so I don't know about today

KitchenAid -- avoid; When we remodeled, we put in a KA (my DH's choice). All the issues you're complaining about in your Bosch were our experience with KA. To have any hope of most dishes being clean, we always had to wash on heavy duty. We had to check every single dish b/f putting it away b/c the DW was so bad! Dishes, even glass, were never dry. I was glad when it died (it probably could have been repaired but I hated that thing so much!) After that experience, my DH told me to pick whatever I wanted! Purchased in 2008.

Bosch (800 series) -- at least as good as our old Maytag. I love this DW! The only things that don't come out completely dry are plastics, but only the tops where water pools, the rest of the plastic items are dry. I love not having to worry about whether an item is "top rack only" or if the item will fall to the DW floor...it doesn't matter b/c there's no heating element. No melted plastics anymore! Purchased in 2014.

Any manufacturer can have the occasional dud. In addition, over time models change and may be better or worse than previous years.

If it means anything to you, Consumer Reports just published a brand reliability report for major appliances in their August 2019 issue (just got it Saturday).

.

Dishwashers with "Excellent" ratings:

• Miele
• Thermador
• Bosch
• Whirlpool

.

Very Good:

• Ikea
• GE
  .

Average/Good:

• LG
• Kenmore
• Maytag
• Frigidaire
• Amana
• KitchenAid
• Jenn-Air
• Asko
  .

Fair:

• Fisher & Paykel
  .

Poor:

• Samsung
• Electrolux
• Viking

.

Overall Brand Reliability from best to worst:

Good:

• Speed Queen (clothes washer & dryer only)
• Miele
• Ikea
• LG
• Thermador
• Bosch
  .

Average:

• GE
• Kenmore
• Whirlpool
• Maytag
• Sub-Zero/Wolf
• Frigidaire
• Estate
• Hotpoint
• Amana
• Roper
• KitchenAid
• Samsung
  .

Poor:

• Jenn-Air
• Asko
• Fisher & Paykel
• Dacor
• Electrolux
• Viking

@Sammy the KA manual for our model recommended installing a water softener. The salesperson suggested using citric acid powder to cut any calcium deposits, and we did that pretty much biweekly.

Also, growing up, our water source was a limestone aquifer. So if a glass of water doesn’t have a layer of small white flecks floating in it, it’s not hard water. That isn’t necessarily true, but it’s my frame of reference.

We just purchased a new KA DW on Saturday, model KDPE234GPS, $679 at Lowes. I've only run it twice. It seems to run pretty much the same as our 2014 KA DW as far as cleaning and drying. You do need to use a rinse aid though. The heating element in the bottom is now enclosed unlike older KA models. It is also not as "beefy" as our old KA. I also liked my old 3rd rack better than the new model so I just swapped them out. We had a Bosch years ago for about 2 weeks. I couldn't stand it. No matter what I did I could not get the DW to dry ANYTHING. Not sure if it was our well water (with water softener).

"...if a glass of water doesn’t have a layer of small white flecks floating in it, it’s not hard water..."

No, that's not true -- it depends on your water source. I grew up with very hard sulfur water with no white specks and we have moderately hard water in our home now with no white specks. We do have sediment (black) occasionally.

(No water softener in either case.)

Our Miele is the Futura Dimension G6365 SCVi which has been discontinued. The closest current model seems to be the G6635 SCVi. The Miele will be more expensive initially than a Bosch - of that there is little doubt. However, it may last longer (certainly Miele says it will - our first one lasted about 15 years - it could have been repaired, but all the rubber bits were starting to disintegrate, so we decided to get a new one). We love them - we like the way they load and they do a great job cleaning. You do have to clean out the filter occasionally and they do not have a food grinder, so you can't just lob unscraped dishes in there or you'll be retrieving all the bits from the filter later. That is not an issue for us anyway - we typically don't run our machine until it's full and that takes a couple of days, so we do rinse/scrape as we don't want things to get nasty.

We don't scrape, but the Miele does just fine. It's rate that I need to clean the filter. I don't understand how that works, but I guess modern detergents really break down food very well

M, if the message on the dishwasher says "clean the filter" you should. ;) I just take it out and use hot water and some dish detergent and my dish cleaning brush. Maybe every 6 weeks or 2 months or so. (not sure what you meant by "It's rate that I need to clean the filter" )

Our Miele is the Futura Dimension G6365 SCVi which has been discontinued.

That's the same one I have.

Ok, now I’m starting to wonder if my issue with Bosch dishwashers is the rate we do dishes??? We typically run 2 loads a day, some people are saying they run a load every two days. Should I be looking at a commercial dishwashers if I do two loads during the weekdays and 3/day on the weekends?

What a great discussion! I would LOVE to have Miele products in my home. Unfortunately, I am in a small town. I called Miele and the closest service person to me about 1 hour and 15 minutes away (and there’s only one person). Even if their appliances don’t break often, I’m worried that if I did run I to a service issue, it would take time and extra money to repair, right?

I don't have any experience with Bosch but my husband wasn't interested in a model that did not have a dry cycle. We sometimes do 2 loads a day as my husband juices a lot and throws the juicer components in the dishwasher. As luck would have it, our old GE dishwasher died a few days before Thanksgiving a couple of years ago, and of course we were hosting. We didn't have a ton of time to do research but we found the KA got pretty good reviews. We bought ours on an early Black Friday deal at Lowes; I think it was around $800-$900. We picked a model in stock and was able to get it installed the next day. Ours has the controls on the front. So far so good! We love how quiet it is and gets the dishes really clean. The only slight problem we are having is the door that you close over the soap/pod container doesn't always stay closed. It's a cheap plastic piece so I'm not surprised it's already starting to go. But otherwise we are happy with our choice.

Paddy, I think she meant "It's RARE that I have to clean the filter."

LOL...I'm sure you're right. For some reason I read that and couldn't figure out the typo. ;) I'd say cleaning it every 2 months or so is fairly "rare" - and I'm actually guessing on the time frame because I certainly don't do it often enough to remember when I last did it!

I just posted in another Dilemma the importance of re-reading what you write before you hit "submit." I guess we just proved my point!

mlee1976 My friend and I have the same lower end Miele dws. Neither of us has needed any service. I'd get one if I were in your location. I did the easy install for both.