CA set to give full health care benefits to low-income illegals

Ann

To the tune of 100 million per year to CA's taxpayers.

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queenmargo

Just what is a low income illegal? I mean how can you get a job if you are here illegally?

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Ann

CA already has the highest state income tax in the nation. Well, the residents might soon wish they had that highest state income tax back again - since it will clearly need to go up due to this plan.

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Ann

I guess when homelessness in your state reaches such unsurmountable levels, what choice do you have? One thing leads to another, right?

America, this is where our entire country could be headed if we can't get a grip on the border crisis.

And, goodness, all illegals will certainly want to flock to CA now and more and more will want to come just so they can head to CA! The red carpet is growing longer and wider.

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catkinZ8a

California Poised to Give Illegal Immigrants Free Healthcare

Leah Barkoukis| @LeahBarkoukis|Posted: Jun 10, 2019 8:05 AM


California will soon make history as the state is set to become the first in the nation to give free healthcare to some illegal immigrants.


Gov. Gavin Newsom and Democrats in the state legislature reached an agreement to allow low-income individuals between the ages of 19 and 25 who are in the country illegally to be eligible for Medi-Cal, the state’s Medicaid program.


“While it’s not all we sought, it will provide a real tangible difference for people, especially for those around and below poverty and for middle income families who don’t get any help under the federal law,” said Anthony Wright, executive director of advocacy group Health Access, Fox News reports.

About 90,000 people will qualify for the measure, which is part of a $213 billion budget deal. It is expected to cost roughly $98 million per year.


Under the agreement, a family of four earning more than $150,000 would be eligible to receive about $100 a month from the government for their monthly health insurance premium bills, AP reported.
The state will reportedly tax individuals who do not pay for health insurance in order to pay for part of it. The policy would revive an individual mandate penalty that initially came with the federal health care bill former President Obama signed into law. (The Hill)

Democrats in the state had pushed for a plan that would include free healthcare for all adult illegal immigrants, but even that was a stretch for Newsom, who pointed out the measure would be cost prohibitive.


The full state Legislature must now approve the budget agreement before it can be enacted.



https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2019/06/10/house-dems-want-to-give-themselves-a-raise-n2547841

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catkinZ8a

Where do illegals get Social Security Numbers?

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Chi

I'd be curious to see an analysis of the costs vs. how much the undocumented immigrants pay in taxes and spend in the ER without insurance. It might be cheaper to give them insurance.

It's only for young adults (19-25) so I suspect most were brought here as minors.

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Jess(10)

Good.

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Ann

Tuberculosis is exploding. Typhus outbreaks have occurred. Seriously, what choice does CA have. Again, one thing leads to another. I think they kind of have to tax their citizens to do this, don't they.

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Chi

They are taxing people without health insurance to help pay for it. They are also helping middle class families who earn over 150k to pay their premiums.

I don't mind my taxes paying for healthcare, legal or not. I think it's probably less expensive than our tax dollars paying ER bills, and there's definitely a cost with people spreading diseases cause they don't have insurance.

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Ann

Proactive? This is what you call the homelessness situation in CA, proactive? I'd call it being buried by what has become an insurmountable problem of rats, feces, sickness, filth, drugs, dirty needles, etc.

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queenmargo

I want to know why they just let them walk in? As an American going to Mexico, I can not just walk in.

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Chi

No one is for open borders.

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catkinZ8a

Chi

No one is for open borders.

_____________________________________

lol.

The extremism of the Democrats, their honed-to-a-fine-edge radicalism, is displayed almost daily on the subject of abortion. When anyone — like poor old Joe Biden — strays an inch on abortion, they’re quickly reined in as Biden was last week when he endorsed the Hyde Amendment and then was forced into a flip-flop.

Their extremism goes beyond abortion to other important issues such as illegal immigration. The Dems are committed to an extreme open borders position.

The Dems’ refusal to consider any legislation to stop the flow of illegal immigration across our southern border was, to their outrage, end-run by the president in his deal with Mexico last week. The deal resulted from Trump’s threat of presidentially imposed tariffs under his national security authority. It was a beautiful sharp stick in Nancy and Chuckie’s eyes.

Since he was inaugurated, President Trump has been searching for solutions to the immigration problem and most — nearly all — of what he’s tried to do has been thwarted by the Dems and court actions. The threat of heavy tariffs on Mexican exports — most of which come into the U.S. — was Trump’s attempt to use the economic sanctions weapon that he’s used to great effect on nations such as Iran and Russia to tackle illegal immigration.

Trump threatened five percent tariffs on Mexican goods if they didn’t do more to stop the flow of illegal aliens into the U.S. The tariffs would have increased by five percent per month until Trump was satisfied with the Mexicans’ actions. About 80 percent of Mexico’s exports come to the U.S., so the Mexicans were facing a huge decline in trade they cannot afford.

The threat was enough to get the business community’s alarm bells ringing and for some Republican senators to threaten disapproval of the tariffs. They all looked pretty stupid when the result was announced.

Mexico has been a bad actor in this crisis. Its government has been providing illegal aliens from Central America transportation by bus and train to the U.S. border guarded by federal police. Mexico doesn’t want the illegals and has been very happy to shuffle them off to us.

Trump’s threat was enough to force Mexico’s President Lopez Obrador to compromise. The details of the deal are still sketchy — Trump and the Mexicans have different stories on what it does and doesn’t do — but it’s a big step in the right direction and a major win for Trump.

Under the deal, Mexico reportedly will deploy about six thousand troops to its southern border to prevent people from crossing it and then coming to America. Other Mexican national guard troops will be deployed around the country.

Also, the U.S. will be expanding its “Migrant Protection Protocols,” under which would-be asylum seekers are returned to Mexico to await adjudication of their cases. This will result in many fewer illegals being released into the U.S. general population.

The deal reportedly includes a promise to recommence the financial aid to Central American countries that Trump had stopped earlier. That’s a very bad idea because it removes the pressure on those countries to act to stem the flow of illegals into the U.S.

The Dems’ reactions to the deal are what you’d expect. Pelosi said that Trump’s threat of tariffs was reckless and that, “Threats and temper tantrums are no way to negotiate foreign policy.” Schumer said, sarcastically, that now that Trump has solved the immigration problem we won’t be hearing about it anymore.

No, Chuck. You’ll be hearing about it a lot next year and for very good reasons.

The Dems insist that there is no national emergency at our southern border despite the facts. According to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency, by the end of May there were 676,315 illegals apprehended there this year, over 144,000 in May alone. More than one million illegals are expected to cross our border with Mexico this year.

A growing number of them aren’t only from Central America. By June 5, at least 500 from southern and central Africa were apprehended. About 350 of them have been sent to San Antonio, Texas. Portland, Maine denied San Antonio’s request for it to take more of them.

Last week, a captured ISIS terrorist confessed to an ISIS plot to have English-speaking terrorists and “westerners” cross the border and attack U.S. financial targets. The “westerners” are citizens of European countries who have gone to Syria to fight for ISIS and are now returning to their homelands. ISIS wants them to get into the U.S. to continue their jihad.

The number of illegal aliens in the U.S. is, according to the Dems and their media cohort, around ten to eleven million. The better estimates say they are about double that in number.

The illegal aliens are welcomed to the Dems’ sanctuary cities where local cops are prohibited from cooperating with the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, “ICE,” which often results in the release from local custody and escape of illegal aliens who are the subjects of deportation orders.

When the president declared a national emergency to overcome the Dems opposition to building his signature border wall, the Dems shouted about a constitutional crisis. They continue to refuse funding. In response, Trump ordered the Pentagon to reprogram some of its funding to build the wall. The Dems, despite the fact that walls have protected borders effectively for hundreds of years, deride the idea of a wall as a “medieval” remedy to a non-existent problem.

That “non-existent” problem surfaced again last week when it was reported that TSA was allowing illegal aliens to board airliners without proper identification. With one phone call, the president could stop that practice. He should make that call today and, in the same call, fire the head of TSA.

Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), one of the loudest anti-Semitic radicals in Congress, said last week that, “It’s un-American to criminalize immigrants for wanting to come to this country for a better life. This is why ICE needs to be defunded.” If a video of her statement exists it ought to be made into a Republican campaign ad next year.

The Democrats have worked themselves into a corner on abortion, illegal immigration, and gun control. They are chafing at the bit to impeach Trump and may yet try to do so. They don’t want to, and probably can’t, stifle their radicalism because it is a primary characteristic of their base.

The 2020 campaign may prove to be the most bitterly-fought in our history. The Dems, with the media’s help, will try to conceal their extremism in a fog of supposed moderation. They can’t be allowed to succeed.

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Chi

Not supporting the wall is not the same as wanting open borders.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

As a Californian, I am good with this measure. Healthcare is a matter of public health. Many undocumented workers pay taxes and never receive benefits because of their status. Plus, as Chi pointed out, I am pretty sure covering people will result in a savings overall.

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Ann

That's good news that Californians are fine with the plan. It would be problematic if they weren't.

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catkinZ8a

Gov. Gavin Newsom and Democrats in the state legislature reached an agreement to allow low-income individuals between the ages of 19 and 25 who are in the country illegally to be eligible for Medi-Cal, the state’s Medicaid program.

So, the elderly illegals are on their own, got it, California!

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Ann

I just heard a report about the disappointment some are feeling about the elderly CA illegals not being eligible.

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catkinZ8a

Hypocrisy, thy name is Democrat.

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Chi

Why is it hypocrisy? You guys are mocking California for providing insurance to undocumented young people and also mocking California for not providing insurance to undocumented seniors. Which is it? Did California do too much or not enough?

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rhoder551 zone 9b-10

Making sure everyone, including the most vulnerable, has access to health care makes the whole population safer; including the right wing conservatives who will fight this idea tooth and nail. Guess they don't like feeling safe.

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kaych

Chi

No one is for open borders.

If this isn't anti-America & Pro- open borders then I don't know what is.


House Democrats Ignore Border Crisis, Instead Pass Amnesty for Millions of Illegal Aliens, Including Criminals

(June 4, 2019, Washington, D.C.) —The following statement was issued by Dan Stein, president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), in response to today’s House passage of H.R. 6, the American Dream and Promise Act of 2019:


“Amidst a full-blown border and illegal immigration crisis, House Democrats have demonstrated where their priorities lie: Making sure that people who break our immigration laws – including some with criminal records – are rewarded.


“As illegal aliens pour across our southern border at a rate of more than a hundred thousand a month due to loopholes in our asylum system that ensure catch and release, the House’s first major action on immigration this year is a massive amnesty for the illegal aliens already here.


“While Americans are justifiably alarmed at the crisis at the border – the exploitation of our humanitarian policies, and the wholesale release of newly-arrived illegal aliens in communities all across the United States – House Democrats have sent an unmistakable signal that they will do nothing to protect the interests or the safety of the American people.


“Even worse, House Democrats – including so-called moderates – rejected a Republican Motion to Recommit that would have ensured gang members do not receive amnesty. Under the bill that passed, gang members, illegal aliens who committed serious crimes as juveniles, and those with multiple DUI convictions or misdemeanor firearm convictions, are still eligible. To them, mass amnesty is the top priority over public safety.


“After House Democrats just degraded the rule of law, Senate Republicans must now show conviction and hold firm for the American people. Their only focus should be on stopping the crisis at the border. We’ll be watching.”

https://www.fairus.org/press-releases/house-democrats-ignore-border-crisis-instead-pass-amnesty-millions-illegal-aliens

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Gosh, golly gee!

All the out-of-staters worried about our taxes, and worried about undocumented residents living here in California.

Governor Jerry Brown took the position, and was re-elected on this position, that if the federal government was not tackling comprehensive immigration reform, we would do this at the state level. So undocumented residents are eligible for special driver’s licenses, schooling, and now the expansion of healthcare is another step to bring law abiding undocumented residents into the mainstream.

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Chi

Democrats passing Dreamer bills isn't surprising. I remember when they offered wall funding for Dreamer protections and Trump said no. So now Dreamer protections and no wall!

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Lars(Z11a, Sunset 24)

I got free health care in Mexico when I visited there. Most countries believe that it is in the best interest of everyone to make sure that all people in the country are healthy.

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adoptedbyhounds

Why are illegal aliens more deserving of free medical care than citizens?

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Jess(10)

Why are all Americans NOT deserving of medical care?

Barr and Trump are now attempting to wipe the ACA out, completely.

Health care, universal health care, is a human right and everyone should have access to health care when they need it.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

What happened to letting states run their own state and make decisions?

Recently my daughter had a health issue in Italy and was treated for free, including x-rays and pain meds.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

adoptedbyhounds

1 hour ago

Why are illegal aliens more deserving of free medical care than citizens?


You would have to ask Republicans and Trumpers why Citizens are not deserving of free healthcare, they’re the ones opposed to it.

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rob333 (zone 7a)

Not supporting the wall is not the same as wanting open borders.


Thank you for this. Now I understand the asinine comment that I support open borders. I couldn't figure out how I want reform (smart reform! not blanket stupidity), yet, I hear "open borders" when I make my stance. I see now, the other side won't come to the table without a wall. I see where the problem lies and it aint with those of us who want reform without a wall that won't work.

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elvis

Sunflower, your daughter is a legal resident of Italy?

Italian Health Insurance. In Italy, healthcare is considered a right and the national health plan is designed to provide for all Italian citizens and residents, including U.S. and Canadian citizens who are legal residents of Italy.

https://internationalliving.com/countries/italy/health-care-in-italy/

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sunflower_petal(5a)

She is not; she was a tourist.

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elvis

I wonder how that happened.

EU and non-EU citizens (if entitled to assisted health care in EU countries) traveling in Italy with the required certificate (European Health Insurance Card or a provisional replacement certificate) may obtain services required directly, free of charge – excepting the payment of an eventual co-pay (called ticket)– at a public hospital or facility covered in private agreement with the National Health Service.

Non-EU citizens coming from countries not covered by the agreement are provided with health services that must be paid for in accordance with the relative scale of charges.

http://www.italia.it/en/useful-info/rights-for-tourists/healthcare.html

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sunflower_petal(5a)

This comment is worth repeating:

"You would have to ask Republicans and Trumpers why Citizens are not deserving of free healthcare, they’re the ones opposed to it. "

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Folks, it's not free healthcare people want. It's rational, universal healthcare. Everyone is willing to pay. There are no free lunches, after all. And helping pay for poor people's share is a small part of the picture. It is disingenuous to characterize the desire for universal healthcare as he desire for free healthcare.

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elvis

Recently my daughter had a health issue in Italy and was treated for free, including x-rays and pain meds.

Sunflower, no offense intended, but I've done the research, and didn't find anything to verify that could happen, absent your anecdotal assertion.

Sounds nice, but I don't buy it. If it were true, people would certainly go there for free medical procedures.

Many years ago, it was true. Today, no. It's certainly cheaper in Italy, but not free.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Elvis, I don't understand your point.

It was a twisted ankle, she went to a clinic, they did x-rays, found no break, gave her pain medicine and never took any money for it. This all really happened within the last 4 weeks.

Are you saying that I'm lying?

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Chi

I believe California is headed towards single payer and this is the first step. It's not just giving insurance to young Dreamers but they are also helping middle class families.

It's a first step. Low income individuals already qualify, and now middle class will get some help. It's not going to happen overnight and making huge expensive changes is not the way to do it.

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Ann

Kaych, wow! Thanks for the comment and the link!

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Ann

"So undocumented residents are eligible for special driver’s licenses, schooling, and now the expansion of healthcare is another step to bring law abiding undocumented residents into the mainstream."

Absolutely no doubt about that!

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Ann

"Recently my daughter had a health issue in Italy and was treated for free, including x-rays and pain meds."

It certainly was not "free" to the citizens/taxpayers of Italy. They paid for it.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Well, at least you believe me!

Anyway, of course, someone paid for it; that was not the point of the story. Sheesh.

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Ann

"You would have to ask Republicans and Trumpers why Citizens are not deserving of free healthcare, they’re the ones opposed to it."

Comment after comment after comment about "free". Boy do we ever need realistic education on the topic!

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" Comment after comment after comment about "free". Boy do we ever need realistic education on the topic! "

That response was because of what adopted said" " Why are illegal aliens more deserving of free medical care than citizens? "

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Ann

Sunflower, did she have trip insurance purchased in the U.S.?

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Chi

Do you sincerely believe that people think it's free? Of course we know we pay for it through taxes. It is "free" in that everyone will have equal access regardless of their wealth.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

She did not have trip insurance.

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Ann

Sunflower, it's not a matter of believing you or not, but it isn't making logical sense. Like Elvis, I'm trying to understand what may have happened and why. You mentioned the trip was recent. Is it possible a bill is forthcoming?

I mentioned trip insurance, which I always purchase before traveling to Europe. When I went to Italy a few years back, I had trip insurance (which would cover last minute illness cancellation, some medical expenses while traveling, etc.).

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Ann

"Do you sincerely believe that people think it's free? Of course we know we pay for it through taxes. It is "free" in that everyone will have equal access regardless of their wealth."

Okay good. So, let's talk about taxes. For example, the estimate for Medicare for all in the US is 30 trillion. I don't believe that estimate included illegal immigrants, but was limited to American citizens.

Now, CA is implementing this new program to only cover a small age range of illegal immigrants to the tune of 100 million annually for just that limited group.

Free now becomes a bit less free. How high of taxes are citizens willing to withstand or capable of withstanding (without economic collapse and France like protests) and for the benefit of whom - the citizens of our country, all residents of our country (legal or illegal), or all residents of the world. I guess the voters will decide.

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sheesh(5b)

Chi, I admire your tireless ability to keep telling them what they know. They know health care is not "free," they know we don't favor open borders, they know we don't kill babies. They're just trying to reinforce each other's arguments that we are demons and they aren't. They are just keeping their fires alive as long as they can.


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roxsol

Sunflower, I believe you.

I like to read travel blogs and sites, and many people report things like what happened to your daughter. It doesn’t make it the norm, though.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/italy-er-visit

Saying that, I have never travelled without travel insurance. I buy mine annually, even if I don’t have any trips planned.

ETA From travel forum:

I recently took a hard fall in Rome (cobblestone/concrete transition) and landed on my face. A bad day, but near the end of the trip, thank god. Ended up in an ambulance for a once over, they released me and we went by taxi to an ER since I was experiencing amnesia and pretty intense pain. CAT scan showed no bleeding or breaks, and I was released. Overall, very lucky!

My question: They asked for my passport for ID, but no request for insurance info, money, etc. We had an Italian friend who was able to interpret for us with the ER nurse and they sent me on my way with instruction to return if anything more popped up. Will I ever see a bill? There is a difference of opinion amongst my friends, and I'm wondering if anyone has experienced anything similar? Did anyone ever bill you?


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Chi

Yes, we will probably end up paying more in taxes for universal healthcare. The calculation for net expense is more complex though as we need to account for the (sometimes hefty) premiums, co-pays, deductions that people pay on top of their insurance coverage. There's also the tax dollars that go towards unpaid ER bills.

If a middle class family makes 50k a year and spends $4800 on insurance premiums, have a $2k deductible, 14% of their income is already going towards healthcare expenses on top of their insurance coverage. Would the tax hike be more than that 14%? I don't know, but that definitely needs to factor in when talking about the expense.

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Chi

Thanks sheesh. I guess I just prefer facts over lies, and it bugs me to see lies spread over and over. But it's probably wasted effort!

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Ann

Overlapped with roxsol. Thanks for that Rick Steve's link, roxsol.

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Ann

One of the interesting responses from the link roxsol provided, following others who had an experience similar to sunflower's daughter:

"The service is not free - it requires labor, equipment, and resources, which have monetary value. The cost is spread among Italian citizens who fund their health system through their taxes (I assume payroll taxes). It sounds like they're not set up to collect from individuals who are not paying into the system (i.e. tourists). I wonder what would happen if more intensive care was needed, like multiple day hospital stays...would they just eat those costs and let Italians pay for it? Those would be billed in the multiple thousands if they occurred in the US.

It seems odd that they would go after you full throttle if this was a rental car ZLT violation (there are lots of threads about this on this forum), but not reimbursement for medical services? In any case, I'm going to bet you won't see a bill. They probably write it off as charity care or something like that. I have no idea how travel insurance fits into this...it doesn't seem like it's being invoked for its purpose."

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"Sunflower, no offense intended, but I've done the research, and didn't find anything to verify that could happen, absent your anecdotal assertion.

Sounds nice, but I don't buy it."

That was your first comment.

Now it's: " Sunflower says it happened, and that's fine."

Pardon me if I take it personally, it sure sounded like it from the beginning.

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

Personally, I would never travel without insurance, even in other EU countries, because one doesn't know exactly what is covered under each country's health system. And if I was American I would absolutely not risk visiting Europe without insurance.

My guess on the Italian story is that they just couldn't be bothered with the paperwork involved in reclaiming the insurance for such a small thing.

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Ann

I think this from the person in the Rick Steves' link might be the answer to my curiosity about the topic:

"The service is not free - it requires labor, equipment, and resources, which have monetary value. The cost is spread among Italian citizens who fund their health system through their taxes (I assume payroll taxes). It sounds like they're not set up to collect from individuals who are not paying into the system (i.e. tourists). "


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sunflower_petal(5a)

And yes, my daughter realizes that trip insurance would been a good thing to have and she will certainly consider it next time (she is 24 so she was in charge of planning this).

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Chi

Their costs are probably very reasonable too. Not like the $900 pregnancy test I had when in the ER for kidney stones. The same little strips you can buy on Amazon for $10 for 50.

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Ann

Floral, I agree about insurance and I think you're right about the reason for no charge.

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floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK

I'd try to persuade her to do more than consider it, sunflower. Seriously, please make sure she knows it's foolhardy to travel uninsured. She was very lucky that time. If she'd had to be flown home you could have been faced with a crippling bill. My dad had a heart attack in France. The reciprocal European health agreements covered his medical care but his insurance was needed for extended accommodation for my mother, her flight home and someone to drive his car and caravan back to the U.K. I've travelled all over the world but I would never ever go without insurance. My son was bitten by a dog in Thailand and needed rabies jabs. He had to have stitches in Nepal. My daughter had suspected malaria in Kenya. My husband was ill in Sri Lanka. The insurance was needed every time.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

While visiting relatives in Lucca, I accompanied an elderly cousin to her medical clinic for x-rays. The amount of money that she paid was astoundingly low by US standards.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Here’s what I posted:

California is a unique state, you can’t expect it to act like others and I personally, as a California resident, applaud the effort to make sure everyone has healthcare. I understand that a healthy population is a productive population and that as the 8th largest economy in the world we need healthy, productive workers and that healthy productive workers are more likely to be tax paying consumers in the future as well. I see no benefit to having an unhealthy population, no matter how anyone got here. I see lots of potential for economic growth with a healthy population.

There will be growing pains I’m sure- Americans in general have a really hard time making long term goals come to fruition but as a California taxpayer I think spending money on healthcare is a great investment for the state.

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Stan Areted

sunflower__petal:

Well, at least you believe me!

Anyway, of course, someone paid for it; that was not the point of the story. Sheesh.


Yes, "sheesh," indeed. That IS the point--that SOMEONE ELSE paid for your daughter's medical bill.

It's all fine and dandy to shuff your bills on someone else, right?

The liberal mindset.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

It's all fine and dandy to shuff your bills on someone else, right?

The liberal mindset


How much do you think was spent on medical care vs. how many tourism dollars were spent and may be spent there in the future by her daughter?


Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The conservative mindset.

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Ann

Veda, that does appear to be part of what you previously posted.

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rhoder551 zone 9b-10

Well I don't like paying for Donnie and his free loader family to go on golfing trips and jaunts.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Yes Ann. That’s why I chose the words “Here’s what I posted.”

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Chi

"It's all fine and dandy to shuff your bills on someone else, right?

The liberal mindset."

You mean like Trump trying to dismantle the ACA and taking insurance away from 20 million people? Guess who will be paying those ER bills? Conservatives will be to blame for shifting all those costs to the tax payers.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

Their desire to be nothing more than punitive is shortsighted for sure, rhoder551.

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Stan Areted


VedaBeeps

It's all fine and dandy to shuff your bills on someone else, right?

The liberal mindset


How much do you think was spent on medical care vs. how many tourism dollars were spent and may be spent there in the future by her daughter?


Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The conservative mindset.


Congratulations! I wondered who would bring that up first.


You think I want to pay YOUR medical bills or SHOULD want to pay them because you spend money in my state or country?


Do you think that is RIGHT to expect someone else to PAY FOR YOUR MEDICAL CARE just because you are "gracing" them with your presence and a few dollars?


GOOD GOD. THE LIBERAL MINDSET.


"Someone else pay for me and mine while I make irresponsible and stupid decisions."


It should be tattooed on some people.

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numbersjunkie

“After House Democrats just degraded the rule of law, Senate Republicans must now show conviction and hold firm for the American people. ..."

I believe nothing posted here from these right wing sources. There may be some truth to it, hut you can bet it has been twisted and not accurately/fairly reported. The above quote made me spit my coffee out. Anyone who buys into this crap should be ashamed.

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adoptedbyhounds

"You would have to ask Republicans and Trumpers why Citizens are not deserving of free healthcare, they’re the ones opposed to it.

Nope. Where did President Trump ever say Americans Last?

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blfenton

We experienced the same thing as Sunflower's daughter in Italy several years ago when I had bronchitis. Visit to the clinic and the antibiotics were no charge.

My son was in Japan four years ago teaching skiing and had to have his appendix out. He did have medical insurance but we had to pay the bill upfront and then claim it. The bill was $9000 for everything which we paid by transferring money to his visa which he used to pay the acct and then we claimed the amount. There was a $200 deductible which the medical insurance carrier also claimed from BC Med for us. We paid nothing.

Socialist or not - I am a believer in universal health care but I have never known anything else but I wasn't old enough to experience the growing pains or conflicts of implementing it in Canada.

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Ann

Blfenton, who pays for an out of country tourist's medical emergency in Canada if they are there without travel insurance?

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Ann

This from USA Today. The Medicare referred to in the first sentence is the Canadian healthcare program. Blfenton, does this info in the quote below hold true for Canada (tourists would be responsible for all their own medical expenses while traveling in Canada) or does Canada cover things in the same way we've learned Italy often does?

"If you are not eligible for Medicare, you will have to pay out of pocket for all medical expenses unless you have purchased traveler's health insurance. You will have several choices regarding traveler’s health insurance plans, depending on your specific needs. You can purchase a short-term plan or a long-term plan, depending on the length of your trip. You can choose a plan with a high deductible or a low deductible, and you will be able to elect “extra travel benefits” as well with most plans."

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roxsol

Socialist or not - I am a believer in universal health care but I have never known anything else but I wasn't old enough to experience the growing pains or conflicts of implementing it in Canada.

Same here, blfenton.

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Jess(10)

You think I want to pay YOUR medical bills or SHOULD want to pay them because you spend money in my state or country?

In case you hadn't noticed, you already do.

SMH

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chase_gw

Sunflower, of course you were telling the truth, why would you make such a thing up?

I fell while in Italy several years ago and required many stiches. The cuts were to my face and the doctor in emerg felt it was best handled by a plastic surgeon , which they called in at almost midnight. There was no charge to me for any of it. I had excellent travel insurance but they "refused" it.

The same fall also resulted in three broken teeth. The dental work was not covered by public heath but the charge was $100 for extraction of the roots. The dentist even told me to come back in a few days and the would remove my facial stiches.......no charge !

Note: The fall happened in Rome the day before we were to leave for Arettzo.....which was where I saw the dentist

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chase_gw

"The Medicare referred to in the first sentence is the Canadian healthcare program."

Ann, I don't think you are correct about that. I am pretty sure the term is referring to those eligible for American Medicare. Under many situations Medicare will cover expenses incurred in Canada.


https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/travel


ETA

It would have been helpful had you provide a link so I could read the excerpt in context but Medicare is not a term that would normally be applied to Canada' s universal healthcare .

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chase_gw

Americans traveling in Canada are not covered by our healthcare even for emergency treatment. Regular medical treatment would normally have to be paid for upfront. Emergency treatment and more complicated procedures are normally billed.

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elvis

sunflower_petal(5a)

"Sunflower, no offense intended, but I've done the research, and didn't find anything to verify that could happen, absent your anecdotal assertion.

Sounds nice, but I don't buy it."

That was your first comment.

Now it's: " Sunflower says it happened, and that's fine."

Pardon me if I take it personally, it sure sounded like it from the beginning.

Well, this would make more sense if my post wasn't missing because your buddies flagged it.

Too bad. If you can, get it back, and we can continue this conversation. Bottom line is this: if your unqualified, uninsured daughter received medical treatment and you weren't/aren't billed, it was not according to the law. Someone over there in Italy didn't bother with the paperwork. Lucky you. Unlucky taxpayers in Italy! You got a freebie!

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chase_gw

"Bottom line is this: if your unqualified, uninsured daughter received medical treatment and you weren't/aren't billed, it was not according to the law. Someone over there in Italy didn't bother with the paperwork. "

Elvis, you are dead wrong on this. I received excellent medical treatment in Italy and there was ZERO charge to me or my insurance. That was no confusion , no mess up. In fact my DH had a long conversation with hospital admin about this because he wanted no surprises.

Emergent care In Italy is provided at NO CHARGE to foreign travelers....been there done that.


ETA my experience was 6 years ago.......the laws may have changed since then...that I don't know but off to check

From the Italian health services website for tourists

"At public hospitals, emergency services are provided at no cost or upon payment of a limited fee, while non-emergency services are subject to a fee set locally by the Regional Health Authority. "

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roxsol

In case of emergency, it is good to know how the medical care system in Italy operates: foreign visitors (from EU and non-EU countries) have exactly the same rights as Italian citizens with regard to emergency medical treatment, free of charge in emergency rooms of public hospitals.


I just read this on a travel site. I believe that Italy does not charge for very basic ER care.

https://www.venetoinside.com/discover-veneto/plan-your-holiday-in-veneto/healthcare/

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elvis

I just read this on the Agenzia Nazionale Turismo website.

EU and non-EU citizens (if entitled to assisted health care in EU countries) traveling in Italy with the required certificate (European Health Insurance Card or a provisional replacement certificate) may obtain services required directly, free of charge – excepting the payment of an eventual co-pay (called ticket)– at a public hospital orfacility covered in private agreement with the National Health Service.

Non-EU citizens coming from countries not covered by the agreement are provided with health services that must be paid for in accordance with the relative scale of charges.

http://www.italia.it/en/useful-info/rights-for-tourists/healthcare.html

We can have a war of travel blogs, too.

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chase_gw

Actually my experience was way beyond basic ER care. They called in a plastic surgeon to do my stitches because the cuts were on my face and the ER doctor was worried about scarring.

As an aside, they also separated me from my husband immediately and questioned us separately about what happened. We later realized it was because they wanted to ensure the injuries were not caused by abuse of some type.......my face was a mess!!

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chase_gw

Elvis....you are confusing basic healthcare services with emergent healthcare services......

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Ziemia(6a)

When are you going to insist that folks pay for road upkeep (judged by the mileage on vehicles)?

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roxsol

“We can have a war travel blogs, too.”

Elvis, not everything is a battle or “sides”. That’s the problem with so many things nowadays. :(


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Chi

"Medical Care in Italy for tourists: EU nationals and non-EU

In case of emergency, it is good to know how the medical care system in Italy operates: foreign visitors (from EU and non-EU countries) have exactly the same rights as Italian citizenswith regard to emergency medical treatment, free of charge in emergency rooms of public hospitals."

https://www.venetoinside.com/discover-veneto/plan-your-holiday-in-veneto/healthcare/

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elvis

When are you going to insist that folks pay for road upkeep (judged by the mileage on vehicles)?

Good idea, but complicated, as public transport uses the roads. We'd have to factor that in.

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Ann

""The Medicare referred to in the first sentence is the Canadian healthcare program."

Ann, I don't think you are correct about that. I am pretty sure the term is referring to those eligible for American Medicare. Under many situations Medicare will cover expenses incurred in Canada."

Well Chase, you'd happen to be wrong. Here is the paragraph immediately preceding the one I quoted. Also, the article is linked below for your perusal, should you so choose.

"Canada's Health System

Canada has a public health care system called Medicare. It offers free essential medical services for all Canadian citizens and permanent residents. If you are planning to become a legal resident of Canada, you will only need traveler's health insurance until you qualify for Medicare. In British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec, and New Brunswick you have to wait three months from the time you apply for Medicare for your coverage to begin. In the other provinces, your coverage begins as soon as you apply.

Choices

If you are not eligible for Medicare, you will have to pay out of pocket for all medical expenses unless you have purchased traveler's health insurance. You will have several choices regarding traveler’s health insurance plans, depending on your specific needs. You can purchase a short-term plan or a long-term plan, depending on the length of your trip. You can choose a plan with a high deductible or a low deductible, and you will be able to elect “extra travel benefits” as well with most plans."


https://traveltips.usatoday.com/health-insurance-travel-canada-18318.html

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elvis

Looking at travel blogs, it seems the "system" is rather haphazard. One thing everyone does agree on is that they got good care.

Last Fall I had an allergic reaction to porcini mushrooms and spent 4 hours in the ER in the hospital in Nottola, near Montepulciano. It was a Saturday night, so very busy at midnight, but I received excellent care. Two different IV drips, a blood test to check for liver toxins, and I was good to go. The visit cost me 62 euros, less than our cat's vet visit! They didn't charge me anything when I left the hospital, but I went back a few days later to see if there would be charges....didn't want any surprises. That's when they gave me the bill and I paid it. I do have Medjet Assist for evacuation, and a health insurance policy from the States that includes partial coverage in a foreign country. I live in Italy about 60% of the year, and feel confident about getting good care at a reasonable rate there. I, too, have heard of people getting free coverage, but that was not my experience!

____________

As the health system is financed on a regional base, different regions may have different regulations. The most common present trend is asking a payment to people addressing hospital emergency rooms (pronto soccorso) for trivial problems, while the care for serious conditions is free or almost free. This to tackle abuse of emergency services - people crowding emergency rooms instead of going to their physicians. - As people have hinted, waits at emergency rooms can be very long, and people are serviced not according to their arrival time but according to the urgency of their condition. A "white code" (not urgent at all) may wait four or five hours while "red codes" and "yellow codes" (danger of life and serious conditions) are often routed while they are still arriving on their ambulances.

_______________

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chase_gw

Ann, as I said, had you provided a link....... easy enough to do I'm told ...... I would have seen the text you chose to cut and paste in context.

As posted by you, out of context, the term made no sense in that "Canada has a public health care system called Medicare" is an incorrect statement.

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Ann

Okay, now we know that Canada won't cover the costs for a tourist with simple or emergency medical needs. How about illegal immigrants? Are they covered for healthcare in Canada? If no, what happens if an illegal gets seriously injured or quite ill and can't afford the medical bills?

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roxsol

Refugees and asylum seekers get healthcare in Canada.

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chase_gw

All emergency situations are treated separate from the ability to pay. Payment is dealt with after the fact.

Regular healthcare , or care due to an illness , is subject to payment if one is not a legal resident. Refugees and asylum seekers excepted as they are considered legally in Canada.

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Ann

What about someone who has crossed the border illegally and unknowingly (to Canadian border agents), roxsol? What if that individual shows up at a hospital seriously injured?

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chase_gw

Not roxsol, but as I posted above , they will be treated separate from their ability to pay and payments are dealt with after the fact. They will be treated no matter what.

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roxsol

Ann, many of our asylum seekers have come from the USA. They have crossed unknowingly to border agents, as that is the “loophole” in the third country agreement.

I am not sure about those who have crossed illegally and not announced their arrival.

ETA Yes, Chase is correct. They will be treated, and payment will be handled later.


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Ann

Thanks for the info.

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Carro


roxsol

Refugees and asylum seekers get healthcare in Canada.

Even if they cross "irregularly"?


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roxsol

Yes Carro, particularly if they cross “irregularly”.

If they crossed at a border crossing they would be returned to the USA as that would be considered the first country they should be claiming asylum.

To get around this, they cross NOT at a proper border crossing and claim asylum. Canada has to take them. This is the loophole in the agreement that Canada has with the USA.

ETA. Once they are here, and their claim is being handled, they are provided with healthcare.

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chase_gw

To be honest I would not want it any other way. I want entrants to this country, provided with , and subject to, our healthcare. I want them, monitored, vaccinated and treated for any heath issues they may be bringing to this country . Any other position is not in the best interests of Canadians.

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Ann

Roxsol, when was that first country agreement struck between the two countries? How long has it been in place? Are there current discussions between officials from both countries (U.S. and Canada) to change it? If yes, how are they proceeding?

I only ask this in case you already know the answers. I could certainly google, but don't care enough right now to investigate and I certainly don't expect you will want to. But, maybe you happen to already know the answers?

But, all these topics do interest me to some degree. We have Canadian posters with sometimes bold opinions on our border issues/agreements/and negotiations with Mexico (as well as our congressional action or inaction on the border topic), our treatment of illegals, our healthcare and who it does or doesn't cover or who it should or shouldn't cover, etc.

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Ann

Another question if you happen to know. How many people illegally cross into Canada across your southern border monthly (in recent times)?

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chase_gw

"We have Canadian posters with sometimes bold opinions on our border issues/agreements/and negotiations with Mexico (as well as our congressional action or inaction on the border topic), our treatment of illegals, our healthcare and who it does or doesn't cover or who it should or shouldn't cover, etc."

I disagree . I have no recollection of any Canadian having any strong opinion on your "treatment of illegals, our healthcare and who it does or doesn't cover or who it should or should not cover." Nor any comment on what you should or shouldn't be doing on your sothern border.

Yes, lots of comments on the politics of it all , Trump's theatrics and information about how it works here, but never anything on what you should do.

I think you have made huge assumptions on what we might think based on the fact we are a small " l " liberal country , who generally has a very low opinion of Trump and who dare comment on US politics and that puts your back up.

As an example I bet you have no idea what my views are on legal and illegal immigration.....but I bet you think you do .i

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

We’ve bounced from California to Italy and now to Canada to find healthcare, and healthcare recipients, to criticize.

All in a day’s work!

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sheesh(5b)

Don't let anyone get your goat, chase. Your knowledge and understanding of American politics, policies, current events, and government is far more than many posters here have. Those of us who know and admire you recognize antagonism we see it.

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Prim Rose

This is also old news - although not having a source to the op is interesting.

Brown ran on this proposal and was elected. I guess the people have spoken!

For those who think California is hellish, all good for the rest of us who love it.

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roxsol

Ann, I don’t know off the top of my head. I’m about to watch an episode of Peaky Blinders, so you are welcome to Google it if you want.

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roxsol

We have Canadian posters with sometimes bold opinions on our border issues/agreements/and negotiations with Mexico (as well as our congressional action or inaction on the border topic), our treatment of illegals, our healthcare and who it does or doesn't cover or who it should or shouldn't cover, etc.

Lol, Ann! So what? This is an open forum. What does it matter?

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Ann

Roxsol, the interesting part of that is what a poster might express they want/like/dislike about policy in their own country vs. what they might express they think is right or wrong (regarding the very same topics) for a neighboring country. One would think those opinions would remain consistent, as one would clearly want a positive experience and outcome for their own country and one would hope they'd also want a positive experience and outcome for their neighboring country.

As an example, let's take the topic of a secure border and a working legal immigration system. Canada has a pretty good situation in both areas from what I can tell and Canadians have expressed general satisfaction with it. Yet, when discussing the U.S. border situation/crisis, there can be significant balking (from Canadian posters) at the idea of and efforts toward a secure border, a reduction in illegal crossings, potentially positive deals with our neighboring country to the south, etc. (all things that work far better for Canada and Canadians). Wanting a comfortable and workable situation for one's own country and not hoping for the same for your neighbor, is IMO, inappropriate. That's why it matters.

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roxsol

Ann, just because you think it is inappropriate, doesn’t mean it matters.

You can scroll by the comments. You have that freedom....or just enjoy the debates and discussions.

In the end, you are the one who gets to vote in your election.

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Ziemia(6a)

Though, there hasn't been balking at having a secure border nor having fewer illegal crossings.

The balkings have been about something else.

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Ann

Yes, Roxsol, it's true it doesn't matter that I think it inappropriate. I was just brushing my teeth to head off to bed and came back to express that same sentiment. It's up to each poster to say what they want to about countries other posters are citizens of, just as it's up to me. But, it is up to me too, so if I want to compare and contrast comments made about Canada vs comments made about the U.S. - I can. And, if I notice odd inconsistencies about well wishes for one country and not for a neighbor - I can. And, if I choose to SOB or respond - I can.

You can do the same. You don't need to wonder why I care what a Canadian poster says about their country vs what they say about my country. You can also SOB my comments if you so choose.

None of those things matter - you're right, so Roxsol, no need for you to worry about whether or not I think it inappropriate (and I do think that, regardless of whether that matters to you or not):)

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Don't forget that the US has a law about treating emergencies regardless of legal status and ability to pay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

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Ann

Yes Sunflower, that law has been in place for a number of years. Clearly, CA's situation has gone far past that need. CA is really in quite a predicament with their extreme homelessness and all the drugs and lack of basic facilities (like bathroom facilities) for their growing homeless population. To see what's happened to that beautiful state is tough to watch and I think of what it would be like to be a CA native and watch this happen. Who hasn't loved their time spent in beautiful CA and once found cities like San Francisco to be one of their all time favorites? I used to love to vacation in San Francisco, but I don't want to go within a hundred miles of it anymore. I have lived in CA at two different points in my life and I have also loved travel to CA. It's really a shame what the state is facing and the issues in parts of CA do seem to be becoming practically insurmountable.

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catspat(aka)

I used to love to vacation in San Francisco, but I don't want to go within a hundred miles of it anymore.

I'm glad to hear that, Ann -- from a fourth-generation, native, northern Californian. Wouldn't want you to have to give up your obviously cherished fantasy about our imminent collapse, in any case. :-)

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roxsol

None of those things matter - you're right, so Roxsol, no need for you to worry about whether or not I think it inappropriate (and I do think that, regardless of whether that matters to you or not):)

That’s the spirit, Ann! See.....it’s easy. :)


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Chi

California is doing just fine. I think these reports are very exaggerated.

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adoptedbyhounds

"Making sure everyone, including the most vulnerable, has access to health care makes the whole population safer..."

Illogical. The whole population doesn't have access to free health care.

Where is California's plan to provide for the most vulnerable Americans, the ones who can't afford health care?

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katrina_ellen

Well isn't that just great, the progressives are working on them getting the vote next, the payoff for the free health care that everyone else pays for. Expensive votes I would say, expensive for tax payers.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

ABH, why do you think that CA is not providing Medi-Cal to residents that are citizens?

Medi-Cal is in place, now being expanded to cover certain undocumented residents.

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Chi

"Where is California's plan to provide for the most vulnerable Americans, the ones who can't afford health care?"

They already do, and now they are helping middle class families as well, who are often stuck in the middle of not being able to afford healthcare but not qualifying for free healthcare.

California's plan is to eventually get to single payer but it has to be done gradually. They are starting with the ones who can't afford it most. I think that's fine.

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adoptedbyhounds

"ABH, why do you think that CA is not providing Medi-Cal to residents that are citizens?"

Where did I say that? My question was

"Where is California's plan to provide for the most vulnerable Americans, the ones who can't afford health care?"

Perhaps California has already met the needs of all of the American citizens living in the state who can't afford health care?

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Chi

Anyone low income, disabled, pregnant, a senior, or some other distinctions can qualify for the medi-cal program.

California is also expanding premium insurance to middle income families, so the only ones not getting assistance are the families that make over 150k a year and they likely already have insurance options at that salary.

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adoptedbyhounds

Perhaps California has already met the needs of all of the American citizens living in the state who can't afford health care?

"California is also expanding premium insurance to middle income families, so the only ones not getting assistance are the families that make over 150k a year and they likely already have insurance options at that salary."

So the answer is no.

California has NOT yet met the needs of American citizens who cannot afford health care.

American citizens are waiting in line behind illegal aliens. Their needs have not been addressed. Why not? Because...priorities.

One can only wonder why Americans unable to afford health care accept that "their place" is waiting behind illegal aliens for the health care they deserve.

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Chi

I don't follow your logic. Whose needs aren't they meeting with this new budget?

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maddie260

I, for one, am tired of posters here who find it so easy to rail about CA and San Francisco day after day, topic after topic. I am quite sure that other posters from CA share that sentiment. I could return that favor if you would let me know what state you are from, but I think I am too polite? You don't have to visit this city and/or state, and, no, you don't feel 'bad' for a 'beautiful' place and what has happened to it as you often say in your postings- you just want to rag on CA! Enough!

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

maddie260, the railing against CA and SF just sounds like sour grapes to me. And of course no fly over comments from us. It would be unseemly ;-)

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don_socal

I usually do not open threads that are more than20 posts since they go off track and make no sense. The subject of this one interested me as I live in California so I just spent a few minutes reading it, I say a few minutes as there is only about a fourth of it that I pay attention to. All the rest is attended to in the answers of the posts I read and I do not have to look at the useless squabble that makes no sense. All the intelligent answers I need to understand the subject are in that one fourth that is readable. Short thread really.

Edit : Also interesting is that the minority of posters on here seem to post the majority of posts but still do not understand reality.

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sandybrewster

I know! So progressive ; )

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Ziemia(6a)

Having fewer folks moving around us with communicable diseases is a great thing!

Or, is there an app to point out who is communicable (so they can be avoided)?

(We have never had a time when we had zero undocumented folk.)

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Ziemia(6a)

"the families that make over 150k a year"

are vulnerable families? Jeesh, on another thread anyone poor is a tick on society and here they are vulnerable?

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adoptedbyhounds

"I don't follow your logic. Whose needs aren't they meeting with this new budget?"


Let's see if we can figure that out. You had an opportunity to respond to my question: Perhaps California has already met the needs of all of the American citizens living in the state who can't afford health care?

If that's the case, just say so.

If that's not the case, why are you asking me whose needs aren't being met? Your own response tells us Americans are still waiting.

"California is also expanding premium insurance to middle income families, so the only ones not getting assistance are the families that make over 150k a year and they likely already have insurance options at that salary."


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Chi

I thought my answer was clear, but I guess not. Let's try again.

This bill should cover the needs of Californians that can't afford health insurance as it helps lower and middle income families. Families making over $150k a year will not be helped, but at that income level, I don't believe insurance affordability is a major issue. But if you're literally asking if 100% of all needs will be met, then no, because there will always be exceptions. But I believe the vast majority of needs will be met.

If you're getting nit picky about whether California has "already" met vs. what this new bill is saying, then no, California has not "already" met the needs of all lower and middle income families, because that is what this bill is addressing and it has not yet been implemented.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Your answer was clear the first time Chi.

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Chi

Thanks, Lindsey and sheesh. I've tried to explain 3 times but I'm done now!

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Ann

"Ann lives in Colorado, home of the first openly gay governor in the US."

Huh, what does that have to do with anything? Do you have a problem with gay men?

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Ann

I happen to have huge problems with the governor of my state, but none of them have a thing to do with his sexual preferences. He has though, crippled our oil drilling, passed legislation that limits my health insurance options, and added my state to the stupid popular vote idea - but people are hard at work gathering 250,000 signatures to put that on our next ballot and boy are they successfully getting the needed signatures!

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" and added my state to the stupid popular vote idea - but people are hard at work gathering 250,000 signatures to put that on our next ballot and boy are they successfully getting the needed signatures! "

Great, so when it passes (and Colorado supports the popular vote idea), then you can feel good that it was the will of the people. Nice.

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Carro


Ann

I happen to have huge problems with the governor of my state, but none of them have a thing to do with his sexual preferences. He has though, crippled our oil drilling, passed legislation that limits my health insurance options, and added my state to the stupid popular vote idea - but people are hard at work gathering 250,000 signatures to put that on our next ballot and boy are they successfully getting the needed signatures!

How do you see that turning out, Ann?

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I didn’t mind that conservatives and Trump supporters pick on California — it means we’re doing something well for them to be so hot and bothered (plus they’re PO’d that California’s politics are the opposite of Trump’s).

What I find particularly interesting is the quantity of misstatements of fact by conservatives and Trumpisti in their rush to dis California. Seeing how wrong they are about California, I don’t put much faith in any of their statements/political opinions.


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Chi

It's the Trump way. Repeat a lie enough and soon some people start to believe it, and that's almost as good as if the lie was actually true.

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elvis

Seeing how wrong they are about California, I don’t put much faith in any of their statements/political opinions.

Oh!

Well then: California is just wonderful. They do everything right out there. I really envy everything about them. Oh, how I wish Wisconsin was just like California!

There. Now will you put your faith in my statements/political opinions? No? But you just wrote...

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

As I previously wrote, elvis — misstatements of fact.

I did not address opinions — just verifiable facts.

.

No one criticizes California like California residents do — we just have different criticisms (generally) than conservative out-of-staters.

Right now it’s the poetic justice of Los Angeles City Hall having an infestation of creepy crawlies after City Council has been so inattentive to the plight of the homeless on the streets of DTLA. The infestation could have easily been avoided by offering safe storage for the belongings of the homeless, having regular trash sweeps, and portable toilets and water. Pilot programs fall to the wayside, etc and now City Hall is experiencing — on a much smaller scale — what the homeless face. (I feel sorry for the City Hall employees who are dealing with the fallout from the Council’s inaction.)

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catspat(aka)

Just so, Nancy. Up here, we gripe about communities that fail to meet their affordable-housing commitments (Pleasanton, can you hear me?), public-transit fails (BART), commute woes, etc. Locally, our local police department is doing an excellent job of dealing with the homeless (getting them into housing, programs, etc. and off the street) with special task forces, which is what SF, San Jose and every other city in the Bay Area is doing, too, but it takes time and won't happen overnight. It was a problem that dramatically and suddenly worsened with the Great Recession and then, ironically, with the subsequent economic boom.


As for the number of uninsured, CA, along with Nevada, has the best record of getting more people coverage than any other state in the nation between 2010 and 2017 (source), is 21st in percentage of residents insured, and compares favorably in that respect, especially with states that did not expand Medicaid (Texas and Oklahoma rank dead last).







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Prim Rose

Yay, for Michigan! We're that nice shade of turquoise blue :) Like our Great Lakes..

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Ann

"How do you see that turning out, Ann?"

The policies of this governor are terrible, Carro. I do hope we can vote to overturn the "National Popular Vote" bill signed by Polis. A recent poll shows 39% against it, 34% in favor, and 27% with no opinion. We're a blue state but Polis is far left and he's going too far (in many ways) in the opinion of many. Even our very popular former governor, Hickenlooper, said "our Founding Fathers got things pretty right" when asked his opinion on the topic.

Recently, Denver (which is particularly left in terms of the state overall), firmly voted against the "Right to Survive" homeless camping initiative allowing the homeless to set up tents and such in public places like parks. That vote was 83% no (no to removing the already existing tent ban that has been in place for some time) to 17% yes (remove that ban and allow the homeless to set up tents and camps). So, even in very blue Denver, that was far too left in the eyes of the voters.

I haven't looked at polls for Polis, but my guess would be he's struggling! There are currently recall efforts underway to remove Polis - with groups looking to get 630,000 signatures. I'm not up to date as to how that is going.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

Morning Consult has Polis at 44% approval, that's higher than Trump (which is around 42%)

Is that considered struggling?

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Prim Rose

I'm lovin' Denver becoming even more blue. That'll make the Front Range, except for portions of Colo. Spgs. deep, deep blue. I hope it makes trumpsters squirm.

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Ann

Sunflower, not bad (44%). Of the 50 governors, there are 36 with higher approval ratings than Polis and 13 with lower ratings than his. Struggling might be a slightly strong word, but it was a guess, and compared to other governors, not a terrible guess at that. The good news for Polis, he's polling higher than Northam and Newsom. I mentioned Newsom because of the thread OP and Northam because of all the press he got not long ago.

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Ann

Interesting that beginning with Polis (#14 from the bottom of the list), 10 of those bottom 14 are Dems and 4 are Republicans.

Thanks for the poll reference sunflower. It ended up being kind of interesting to peruse for a bit.

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eageree

Re the effort to recall Polis - that seems to be a tactic of Republicans in Colorado who are unhappy with how their legislators are voting, which is a total disregard for the elections that put those people in office. Polis has accomplished a lot in his few months in office, all day kindergarten being one of them.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

"a tactic of Republicans in Colorado who are unhappy with how their legislators are voting, which is a total disregard for the elections that put those people in office."

eageree, that sounds just like what Trump supporters accuse Democrats of (not accepting the election).

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eageree

At one point they were trying to recall the state Rep who supported the Red Flag gun control law. (While its not a perfect law, it was step in right direction) His son was killed in the Aurora theatre shooting. Just read that they (Colorado Republicans) stopped that recall effort as of yesterday.

I didn't intend to derail this thread to make it about Colorado politics.

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Ann

Eageree, I see your point but the disregard can be viewed as going both ways.

After Prop 112 failed 58 to 42% last fall, Polis signs Senate Bill 181 in March. Many felt he bypassed or ignored the wishes of the voters of the state on the drilling topic in general and I think that's a fair assessment of his March action.

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eageree

The way I see it Senate Bill 181 - the oil and gas bill gives more control to local governments. If I lived in those areas I certainly would not want the noise and pollution near my home ….or children's schools. There's lots of work yet to figure out all the rules. The money of oil and gas made it into a "sky is falling" issue.

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Prim Rose

It's about the money. when it should include environmental impact.

Such great hysteria over changes. As though, the only changes that should happen are trump disruption and destruction.

I hope Colorado gets the small oil rigs under control.

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