If you worried posting the plan, post a link to the site you got the plan from and you will get the same suggestions to the issues you like to address on the plan.

Thank you GN Builders, I was just starting to think I posted this incorrectly!

If it’s already online, then it’s fair game to make fun of.

Our plan is to work with an architect we know but just use this layout as a good starting place.

Architects create plans and don't need a "good starting place".

Take your requirements, ideas and info about your building site and allow them to do what they do.

And make sure you understand what an Architect does, and that you are dealing with an Architect and not a draftsman.

Draftsmen do what you tell them to. Architects find out what your wants, needs and wouldn't it be nice to haves are, then they ask you lots of questions about your life, your family, what you like to do, how you prefer to live, etc. Then they come out and walk the site with you looking for the best orientation for the house.

Then the best architects will set up a meeting with you and start sketching their ideas plus your ideas while you all modify and adjust over a several hour period.

Thank you all for your helpful input. He is most certainly an architect and I guess looking at plans more allowed me to kind of zero in on the direction I’d like to see our build go, but I’m sure you‘re right and he needs no starting place. The exact plans we will construct with him. Being a novice to building, expert advise is worth its weight in gold. I consider it money well spent if you love the finished product. Reading these forums has also helped me realize things I hadn’t before and I look forward to learning more as we move forward.

Forget the plan and make your appointment with an architect with a list of things you must have and another with a wish list. That is how you get the house you want

You are crippling yourself and your architect by starting with a floor plan and trying to change it to meet your needs. Take a list of your needs and wants and your site survey to a reputable architect and ask them to help you design a home that fits your site and meets your needs.

There is a difference between taking photos and saving photos of things you like and putting together a bubble diagram showing how you want certain rooms to be near one another and bringing a internet floor plan that is poorly conceived with no relation to your site.

Do you make the first few incisions before you go into surgery?

An architect takes their direction from their client's needs and the site's conditions. It is a balance, and sometimes a very delicate balance. A preconceive floor plan rarely works totally for the client and/or the site and it can negatively influence the design.

Hi Keely. It is great that you want to learn. It is fine to take the plans, as well as photos to the architect. I would also encourage you to start a Houzz ideabook.

I would also ask the architect: what do you want me to prepare that would be most helpful to you, prior to the meeting. Few people ask this and he will be thrilled!

However, have an open mind and realize these are just starting point. It seems to me that you understand this.

It is possible that the architect will not be able to implement the plan for a multitude of reasons, including site, budget, goals, etc. However, it will give him an idea of where you want to head.

PRO

Mark Bischak, Architect

Do you make the first few incisions before you go into surgery?

Your saying I should just trust the architect to know what they are doing, same as I should trust my doctor. My dad was a doctor and my sister is a doctor. We were taught to respect the profession. Don't question, do what you are told.

3 years ago I had my gall bladder out. I kept going to the doctors and going to the doctors, kept telling them something was still wrong. They kept telling me my intestinal distress and fatigue were to be expected after surgery. 5 months later I went to the ER, needed emergency surgery, and found I had a tumor that had blocked my intestinal tract.

In January I went to urgent care and followed up 4 times in 5 weeks because I was not feeling well, had arm pain and fatigue and was throwing up, It was flu season and they diagnosed me as having the flu. The nausea went away, but my arms still hurt and I was tired all the time. The doctors kept passed my complaints off as residual from being sick. 8 hours after leaving the doctors for the 4th time I felt really bad, something was really wrong. Called an ambulance and had a major heart attack while being transported to the hospital. Was told later the I was having silent heart attacks for some time prior to the major attack.

Should I expect the same results trusting you to design my home?
It is my responsibility to provide both my doctors and an architect with as much information as possible so that they can meet my needs. I also need to have a doctor and an architect who actively listen to me and don't make assumptions that they know my needs better than I know my needs.

I didn't build my home, I bought a used home, but I had measured my closet space and my cupboard space and counter space and room sizes and knew what my minimum requirements were before looking at potential homes. I knew my budget, I knew what size yard I wanted, what neighborhoods I would consider, what style home I wanted and what level of renovation I could handle.

I worked with a realtor, but found the listing for the house I bought on Zillow.

"Your [you're] saying I should just trust the architect to know what they are doing, same as I should trust my doctor."

No, not the same as a doctor.

I will say that architects are trained to gather information needed to design a structure, come up with a design based upon that information, and review that design with their client to see if it meets their needs. Not all architects are the same.

You are not a doctor. Your father or your sister being a doctor does not make you a doctor. You did not come up with a diagnosis on your own, you went to a doctor. You told the doctor something was wrong, you did not tell them you have a heart condition or the flu or you needed your gall bladder out or there's a tumor blocking your intestines.

Doctors are human. Architects are human. Doctors deal with a patient and their body. Architects deal with a client and their building. A metaphor is a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable. You are taking my metaphor and applying it literally, losing its intended meaning.

The architectural design process is a path; information is gathered, the information is evaluated, problems are identified, solutions are created, solutions are evaluated. It is NOT solution created and tried to fix.

"Should I expect the same results trusting you to design my home?"

No, you will get much better results from me.

While I don't encourage my folks to bring me floor plans, when that happens, it's actually turned out ok.

What happens here is I'm not looking at the plans in terms of the exact location of let's say, where a powder room is, I'm looking at them more as relationship diagrams much the same way a bubble diagram does and if there's multiple plans, I'm looking for commonalities. For example if all the plans have the master bedroom away from the kids bedrooms, I'm going to pay attention to that fact.

What's probably more important here, is not the architects methodology but the owners attitude. There's a big difference between "I like these plans" and "Draw this up", potential copyrighting issues aside.

As an example here's a plan I received where the builders draftsman had already designed something that potentially would fit on the owners difficult pie shaped lot that the owner "liked":

And here's the bubble diagram I received. Note it's almost exactly like the plan right down to the angled garage:

And here's what I came up with. Only difference being a screened in porch and front office/bedroom added:

So, while not encouraging it, when a plan(s) are given to me, it's a starting point, it's information to work with, not copy.

So Keely Burrer, if you wanted a little advice from a professional, that's the best I can give you. When you go in to the local architect you mentioned, first you're going to have to have an open mind and second, your guy/girl should be showing and discussing with you possible alternatives in a true collaborative effort.

And the best of luck with your build. Exciting times ahead for sure!

I just finished a project where the attitude was "Draw this up" with a "here is a rough (dimensioned) sketch" facade. It was painful.

I can't believe how two threads in two clicks mime and rhyme an I "just need you to do THIS" ...........

What a funny word: Especially when one considers that having no idea of what "I just want" entails..........can lead to very UNjust expectations with regards to professional help. Gee, that is weird. The result of which is so often "just desserts." An all purpose word indeed.

just

/jəst/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

adjective: just; superlative adjective: justest

1. 1.

   based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

   "a just and democratic society"

   synonyms:fair, fair-minded, equitable, even-handed, impartial, unbiased, objective, neutral, disinterested, unprejudiced, open-minded, nonpartisan, nondiscriminatory, anti-discrimination; More

   honorable, upright, upstanding, decent, honest, righteous, ethical, moral, virtuous, principled, full of integrity, good, right-minded, straight, reasonable, scrupulous, trustworthy, incorruptible, truthful, sincere;

   informalsquare

   "a just and democratic society"

   antonyms:unjust, unfair

• (of treatment) deserved or appropriate in the circumstances.

  "we all get our just deserts"

  synonyms:deserved, well deserved, well earned, merited, earned; More

  rightful, due, proper, fitting, appropriate, apt, suitable, befitting;

  formalcondign;

  archaicmeet

  "a just reward"

  antonyms:undeserved

• (of an opinion or appraisal) well founded; justifiable.

  "these simplistic approaches have been the subject of just criticism"

  synonyms:valid, sound, well founded, well grounded, justified, justifiable, warranted, warrantable, defensible, defendable, legitimate, reasonable, logical;

  rarevindicable

  "just criticism"

  antonyms:unfair, wrongful

adverb

adverb: just

1.

exactly.

"that's just what I need"synonyms:exactly, precisely, absolutely, completely, totally, entirely, perfectly, utterly, wholly, thoroughly, altogether, in every way, in every respect, in all respects, quite; More

That's just right.

Again thanks all for your input. If I could draw a plan up myself, I wouldn’t hire an architect. But I am not an architect and we’d end up with a big old mess I’m sure so we will leave it up to the professionals haha. I’m in a healthcare profession that at times doesn’t get the credit it deserves and I can completely understand your perspective. Your education is something to be proud of especially when you all are creating beautiful homes and buildings. I’m sure I too would be frustrated if a client tried to micromanage my project and therefore bottleneck me into something thats not able to meet its full potential.

I truely had no idea what I wanted and can be indecisive at times with rather large projects. I know it’s their job but I get teased about my inability to make quick decisions a lot so it’s a point insecurity for me and I do not want to be frustrating for someone so that’s why I tried to start looking at things.

I know we will love our house and I am completely open to our architects input but do know now that 1) I’d like a two story with most of my living space on main, 2) a kitchen sink that is in front of a window and not an island and also 3) my laundry room to have windows. The plans, when I was looking made me realize many are placing sinks in the island with the kitchen not having as many windows as I’d like and while having the laundry room by the master is brilliant, a lot of times it seemed to be in the middle of the house with no windows. I’ve done laundry in our basement for years and can’t wait to have it upstairs.

Other needs I did know are 1) 4 bedrooms, two or three I’d like on main, others can be up. Master on main though, is a must. I’m leaning toward split floor plan but know it has its pros and cons as we are a young family and I know I’ll be getting my kids at night. Although we do it now and it’s okay. The bedroom area on main and second is going to be for children now, but I’d like the option of someday (should the need arise) being able to refinish the childrens rooms into an in law suite for family. Hopefully we never need it but I'm keeping it in mind. 2) Larger pantry. 3) Would like 10 foot ceilings on main and 9 on second. I’d love to have either vaulted ceilings or cathedral ceilings in living room and master but am okay talking about it not if he decides it doesn’t work. 4) I’d like a screened in porch somewhere and large porches on front and back as we plan on having a pool someday and our setting is rather pretty. We have 7 acres to build on so space is not an issue but I look forward to seeing how he suggests we place the house as it’s a corner lot. 5) prefer open concept between living dining and kitchen but without the dining room between the living and kitchen areas as I dont really like having to walk around my friends table that is set up that way. As long as I have an area for a large farm table I do not necessarily need a formal dining room. 6) half bath easily accessible from backyard somewhere for quick pool breaks. 7) large mud room that family uses that is separate from my laundry preferably. I’d really like to be able to shut the door to the laundry should I need to with kiddos and the messes they make. 8) I’d like to keep this below 3500-3700 square feet. We will have a full basement under as well.

We live in rural Ohio with an fruit orchard in our family that we may be running at some point in about ten years and full time jobs besides the orchard. Just an idea of landscape.

So far those are my wants and needs. Some

obviously rank higher than others and some are just wish lists. But I am excited to get started now. Thank you again for all your differing opinions and perspectives.

Each time I see a consumer posting that they had an architect design which was thousands of dollars over their budget, I wonder if it was a "just draw this up" situation.

"If I could draw a plan up myself, I wouldn’t hire an architect. But I am not an architect and we’d end up with a big old mess"

If I could fly, I could avoid that so annoying airport and plane thing

"4 bedrooms, two or three I’d like on main, others can be up. Master on main though, is a must".

Two or three on main. ...........they need baths

"I’d like the option of someday (should the need arise) being able to refinish the childrens rooms into an in law"

Just building for now will be challenge enough. Accounting for aging of parents and housing them post children rearing years??$$$$

"Would like 10 foot ceilings on main and 9 on second. I’d love to have
either vaulted ceilings or cathedral ceilings in living room and master
but am okay talking about it not if he decides it doesn’t work..............................."

It works with no limits to roof line or sq foot or budget concerns.

You "just" need a big fat wallet. : ) Or the plan to get a big fat wallet.

It sounds like you have thought about things in terms of how you want them for you and your family - thumbs up! Good luck with your meeting with the architect!

I actually encourage clients to think "big" . "If you could have everything you want, what would it be?" But, I tell them that this is only a starting point. Once we drill down, items will be eliminated/changed due to budget, space or many other constraints.

I find that opening up with a "dream" encourages creativity. I tell them from the start, that they will not get all or sometimes not even most of what they want, but knowing what they want and priorities helps me create the best outcome in the design.

You can not have a two story building with the living space and most of the bedrooms on the main floor. That would be a 4000 square foot first floor and a 700 square foot second floor. Not even a 1 1/2 story house could manage those proportions. Something has to go upstairs. That means the bedrooms. Or it means a bigger lot and a single story building.

Your list is a fantastic start. A local architect will help you sort things out and expand on your list. Good luck on your project.

Golf carts are great for orchard living.

Keely Burrer , you have a good start, but there is so much missing. An architect can put together something that fits the specifics that you have set, but have you really sat down and thought about minimum necessary, wants and nice to have?

The architect can only match your needs if he knows your needs.

If I were building a home I would start with the home I currently live in or homes where I lived in the past. I would use that to determine what works, what doesn't work, what I love, what space was wasted.

Bedrooms - how many do you need? How many will be used by your family every night and how many will be for guests? How often do you have guests? What will the guest bedrooms be used for when not occupied by guests? How big do the rooms need to be? How will those needs change over the planned life of the home? Will your children do homework in their bedrooms, will they have TVs or other electronics in the bedrooms? My sister built her home while the two kids were in college. She didn't need a lot of space for each girl, but built large bedrooms that would accommodate Queen sized beds and room for a single or bunk beds so that when her girls got older and moved away and would come home for weekends or holidays with their spouses and families there would be a place for each girl to stay with her family and not need to rent a hotel room. Each bedroom has a vanity and sink and a door to the bathroom that has a shower, tub and toilet. These are the only 3 rooms on the second story of her home. Each bedroom also has a 10' closet. Not a lot of closet space for a teenage girl, but plenty of closet space for a weekend visit and they did have space in the basement to store out of season clothing.

My family loves to bake and have large kitchenaid mixers that weigh a ton. One of my sister's 'doesn't work' was having this big appliance on the counter or having to lift the mixer from some storage area. Here are pictures of her solution.

Hidden doors that open with a shared counter in her laundry room. All 4 doors open and you can simply slide the small appliances that you use on occasion into the kitchen.

No architect will auto think things like this. They may come up with a great solution, but only if you present the need.

Take a month and keep detailed notes on your daily life. Are you looking for a place to store something, are you tired of walking the laundry down into the basement or do you like having a laundry shoot that deposits the laundry near the washer and dryer? Can you reach the upper levels of your cabinets or do you need to schlep out the step stool every evening to get the serving dishes out? Do you hate that the electrical outlet is on the left side of your sink and the cord from your water pick hangs over the sink while you are using it or do you love that this is not an issue and your outlet is on the appropriate side of the sink? Do you need outlets on both sides because you are right handed and your husband is left handed? (My dad was a lefty and 2 siblings were left handed. Our home was built to accommodate both right and left handed people).

I am not an architect, but I am a data architect. I build solutions for data collection and reporting. I can build an application that will fill every need my customer requests, Depending on the size of the project I may spend 20 to a few hundred hours observing their current process and asking questions. Through observation and communication, I can identify most of their needs. What I can't do is solve for needs that I did not observe and were not communicated. I can't read their minds. I don't work with their data on a daily basis. I am not the subject matter expert for their process. I won't know that each week they pull reports and manually add information that they don't currently collect.
The success of any solution is based on the quality of the requirement specifications.

I don't think a building architect works all that differently than a data architect. They can build something that fits the needs that are communicated. They know best practices and what is normal and customary. Your input is the only thing that makes your home design uniquely fit the needs of your family.

Mark Bischak, Architect

"You are not a doctor. Your father or your sister being a doctor does not make you a doctor."

I didn't suggest that I had some special knowledge based on them being doctors. I said "We were taught to respect the profession. Don't question, do what you are told."

I blame myself for being too accepting. I knew something wasn't right, but I accepted their opinion because they were doctors and were telling me that I had nothing to worry about. I should have been more persistent, I should have demanded additional testing. I should have asked what else it could be. Their diagnosis was based on their experience. I had gone through surgeries in the past and didn't have this type of difficulty recovering, I had had the flu in the past and this didn't feel like the flu. It was my responsibility to explain to them that I didn't agree with their professional opinion and communicate my reasoning.

If we don't advocate for ourselves we will get cookie cutter medicine. If the doctor saw 30 other patients with the flu that day he is going to assume the flu if your symptoms mimic those of the flu.

If you don't provide an architect with the unique needs of your family you will get a cookie cutter house, not one that specifically meets your needs. You your last 100 clients wanted a sink in the island and I don't specifically tell you that I don't want a sink in the island are you going to assume this is what will work for me?

Out of curiosity, do you go back to your clients at regular intervals (1, 3, 5 and 10 years after the project) to find out what they would have done differently if they were building today?

Once in a while, it's good to remember that 99% of humanity on planet earth, would think the most basic of USA new builds to be a form of nirvana. We agonize, because we can, and there is nothing wrong with that.

For those of us who guide folks through build, or remodel in all the virtually infinite ways wish lists can be married with budgets, styles. lifestyles, and the REALITIES of sites and existing domiciles?

The wish list will always exceed what is possible, there will always be a "casualty" of existing circumstance or just the give/get of options.....

And it is wise to remember that "perfect" occurs never, if only because "perfect" does not exist. Not in housing, or humans. It's a myth. It's also not necessary for happiness in housing, or humans.

Jennifer - Doctors are not architects. Seeking a cure is not seeking shelter. You were taught to respect the medical profession. They run their profession the way they run their profession. My metaphor was to point out the absurdity of starting someone else's professional work and expecting the professional to finish or fix what someone else started. My metaphor was not to compare the two different professions. Its a metaphor.

Data "architects" and architects are two totally different things. Architects are trained to gather information needed to design space, come up with a design based upon that information, and review that design with their client to see if it meets their needs. The better job the architect does in gathering the information, the better the space the architect designed will meet the client's needs. Any assumptions are based upon the information gathered. Information is constantly being gathered.

No I do not follow up with clients as you described. As time goes on needs are changing, that's life. I try to design flexibility in my designs to accommodate life changes, but I can not foresee the future.

Architects are faced with constant professional decisions on every project.

For example, a client may say I want a kitchen island with a six burner range in the middle. The architect may have experience and reason to believe this is not a good idea.

After discussion, the architect must must decide whether this is a no go decision on her/his part, or whether to sImply comply with the client's request.

This is the sort of professional responsibility which separates architects from drafters, CAD operators and the like.

Sorta like telling a physician you came to see her/him because you need a personally favored medication.

Keely, I can see all the experiences and completely opposite ideas that come from those experiences, voiced here. IMO, I feel like you can always have a conversation with your Architect and if they are responsive in a way that fits you, proceed with care. For me, I searched and looked at hundreds of homes, magazines and books for what really felt good to me, and ran it past my husband too! I then took a printer paper sized house plan that I found online, to my architect ( I'll call him Joe) and said, I really like the placement of the bedrooms, open kitchen and living room and walk out basement. I sat down with Joe and named off some of my needs, alot of wants and many hopes. We talked alot about doorways and getting old. We talked about stairs and views. We also talked about expenses and how do I get electric, water and sanitation to the middle of a grassland pasture. So, after leaving him a huge list, he let me add more later thankfully, He came up with a floorplan. It was good but I decided my very dirty farmer of a husband needed his own mudroom, which is pretty much a bathroom, closet and laundry room in one. He needed his own entry too. We tweaked my original floor plan and pretty much got everything I felt would make life sweet as we grow into retirement. We have a pretty good budget to work with but I still pulled back because we all know it always cost more in the end then expected. ~~~ that's how I did it and Joe is still helpful and seems friendly when I call. And lucky for me, my builder ALWAYS tells me no question is dumb. I can ask anything. I'm sure I have tested his patience, but that's what I'm paying him for my husband tells me. I feel like it's better to question things on the front end, than to wait until a bunch a cash and time is spent.

Going back to the initial question, no you don't need to buy a copy of these plans to take to the architect. Save your money.

After reading the rest of the thread, I would advise you to call the architect and ask if they have any before we meet type of information or protocol.

Take your list to the meeting. It's plenty to start the discussion.

At this point, quit looking at online design plans. You have already accomplished a lot. You have the land, you know you need an architect, you may have the right one, you have a list of needs, and you have a list of wants. You are well on your way.

If the meeting doesn't work out, you can always hire ArchitectRunnerGuy. He does great work.

Here is just a little advice from a professional: you really don't need to take a floor plan to an architect. All you really need is a list of needs; another list of wants; a detailed site plan; your budget...and most importantl...an open mind.

"I don't go to a hairstylist without bringing in some pictures and discussing what I like and what I want."

That's what most homeowners do with their architects and its fine but its not the same as showing an architect a completed design; that begins the design process as if it were a renovation.

So many people seem to compare the services of an architect to a consumer purchase. That's specious thinking. The design of a house should be a collaborative process. Bring your ideas in whatever form you like to the first meeting but don't bring a completed design.

Please don't categorize all doctors (and all architects) as the same. There are some amazing architect (here for sure) and there are some duds. There are some amazing doctors and admittedly, some duds.

Its funny you mention this specifically:

"If the doctor saw 30 other patients with the flu that day he is going to assume the flu if your symptoms mimic those of the flu."

I spend an huge amount of time training resident physicians to avoid exactly this (and reminding myself of it periodically too). And along the same lines... I have to remind them to think much broader than the diagnosis that the patient googled and is worried they have. It is very easy to fall into the trap of buying into the patient's preconceived diagnosis. I imagine the same is true of the architecture profession. It would be easy to fall into the client's plan and just do what they want, but the best solution (most accurate diagnosis in my case) might require thinking outside the simple box.

Anyway, I'm glad you survived your medical ordeals. I hope you find the person that can listen to you and think critically about what is going on (both in medicine and architecture). They are out there... don't worry!! :) Good Luck, and don't forget to have fun with this whole house building thing!

I like clients with ideas and enjoy collaborating with them. I recently had a client who told me to do whatever I wanted and didn't even look at the drawings. I found that to be very difficult.

Years ago, I had a client who kept faxing me house designs from plan books. She did that on the day I put the drawings out to bid and I resigned by fax.

Henry Ford is often credited with saying that if they were asked, people would have asked for faster horses. Faster horses is an example of an incremental improvement that would be associated with a redesign of an existing idea. For real creativity and a truly noteworthy response, you have to go with the leap of faith approach.

I like the idea of going in with a list and the plan. I can show someone on a plan what I like and what I don't like. I am not saying copy the plan, I am saying I like how you enter and exit the kids rooms here, where they are at in the floor plan and how the bath is like this. Measure the spaces you like in your house now or friends homes or model homes. The dining room I have now is the perfect size in the wrong spot, so I could say I want a dining room that is roughly x size, that fits a 8 person table, open to the kitchen and has windows on 3 sides with a door to the screened in room. I would go through all the spaces with a list beforehand. You don't need to go through your entire list when you meet but at least you will have it as guidance for your wants/needs.