Aww thanks everyone...Yes, I've tried most things. And I have been off anti-depressants for about a year now. I do take Aleve PM because I tried the benadryl alone and didn't get the same results (for reasons that are unknown it seems the combination is what helps me). Without that I would be awake until maybe 3 or 4 am. If I'm up at 6 or 6:30 I don't need to take it. I still have bad dreams either way.

I've also tried relaxation therapy and sleep cd's and lavender and yoga and melatonin and other over the counter things, and no electronics and all the recommendations that make for "healthy" sleep. Also, if I did try any kind of "substance", which I'm not admitting to, because it's illegal where I live ;), I'm sure that it wouldn't help, either, but at least I'm sure it might help me relax enough to fall asleep. So there's that...

I did have to take Ambien for a while because I was literally not sleeping for 4 nights, which is dangerous for driving and just everyday living, really.

Of course all of this makes me anxious. I dread bed time. It's a vicious cycle :( Mostly I just try to live my days and not think about it. But last night was bad.

There should be a pill for nightmares. Guaranteed to give you good dreams.

How terrible for you. I occasionally take ibuprofen for pain. I always have the weirdest dreams, though not nightmares. Has your sleep always been disrupted like this?

Just the past 15 years or so... :-/

Honestly I feel a bit stupid complaining about it. I mean in the grand scheme of life, it's minor. It's just annoying. And frustrating. And I resent the fact that my husband lies down and 2.5 seconds later is fast asleep. I'm only half joking about the resentment :)

I don't blame you for venting, My sister has trouble sleeping and dreads going to bed, then sleeps late every morning. She really doesn't get much exercise and I wonder if that would helped if she exercised everyday on a regular basis. Hope you find a solution.

I forget what medication i was taking but it gave me horrible nightmares. Almost better not to sleep! I'm so sorry you are having this problem. I don't think it is minor at all. Sleep is so important.

Dreams are also important. They help your brain clean out all kinds of junk. Don't you wonder where some of that stuff comes from? Nightmares and night terrors are not normal, i would think. I resort to Ambien when I can't sleep. It puts me out like a light but I don't dream. I start to feel depressed if I take it for several nights in a row and I think that's because I don't dream. It's just not natural sleep.

I hope you find an answer.

Someone (was it Lars?) was complaining about a blood pressure med that gave him 'vivid' dreams.

I'm so sorry you're experiencing sleep problems! I would strongly suggest seeing your physician or a neurologist to see about getting a sleep study done. The thing is....sleep problems can be an indication of other medical problems.

Yes, I did complain about a BP med that gave me vivid dreams, and I don't take that one any more. Some of the vivid dreams rise to the level of nightmares, and the others are just disturbing. I also have sleep apnea and sleep with a CPAP mask, which helps me get better sleep, but lately I have fallen into bad sleep patterns. I will go to bed at 9:30 PM sometimes and then wake up four hours later and not be able to go back to sleep for 3-4 more hours. Sometimes I sleep late in the morning, as I am fully retired now, as of about four weeks ago. I think this retirement has caused me some depression/anxiety, and I have requested a referral for a psychiatrist, who can prescribe something for what I am going through.

I've had vivid dreams all my life, and I used to write them down as soon as I would wake up in my diary, but I no longer keep a diary. There is a Lucid Dreaming Forum that you might want to check out. I've had slight sleep paralysis on some occasions, and I am often extremely aware during my dreams, yet I am not always aware that I am dreaming, except when I can tell myself (while dreaming) that I am experiencing a pattern that happens only when I am dreaming, such as getting lost in a building or buying multiple cars because I keep forgetting where I have parked them. These are expensive sports cars also, and I never get them paid off. In my dreams, after I have misplaced the second one, I tell myself not to buy a third and that I must try to find the two previous cars. Sometimes during a dream I will tell myself "Don't walk down that street, or you will not be able to find your way back." On occasion I have told myself to pinch myself to tell whether I am dreaming, but when I do that, I do feel the pain of the pinch, and so that only convinces me that I am awake instead of dreaming.

I've written a lot of stories based on my dreams, but I've also had experiences while awake that were very similar to dreams, such as falling into a different state of consciousness. This happened a lot more often before I started using CPAP but also it happened a lot when I was younger and even as a child. It happened a lot when I was a teenager and also in my 20s.

I have a prescription for Librium, which I try not to take, even though the bottle says to take it three times a day. At most, I will take it once in the evening. In my 20s I saw a psychiatrist that prescribed Valium for me, but I did not like that at all, although it did put me right to sleep, and so I could never take it during the day.

You should definitely tell your physician about this. Daily exercise helps.

There are studies that seem to show you can control your dreams by waking up during the dream and controlling it.

Dream control

Some people (like my brother) can control their dreams, and some (like me) cannot.

Have you had your thyroid levels checked recently? I actually have low thyroid, but when they were first treating it the dose was too high and I had horrible nightmares every night. The endo said that was common with hyperthyroid.

Penny, I'm so sorry! I have rather vivid dreams every night that relate directly to my Developmental Topographical Disorientation (DTD), but I'm so used to them that they've ceased to be nightmares. I'm hopelessly lost in my dreams, I don't recognize anything about the location which varies every night.

Sometimes the dreams are disturbing and always stressful but because I know the underlying reason behind these dreams, they don't worry me.

Penny, do you have medical insurance that will cover some therapy sessions? I can't help but think that peeling back some layers of these dreams might take their power away.

Have you tried going to sleep (maybe with earbuds in) with soft, peaceful, music? I wonder if it might provide some subliminal 'serene' ambience to deter your brain from wandering into disturbing dream sleep.

No suggestions, just empathy.

I rarely have nightmares, but do have broken sleep.

And I can SO relate to your comment about your DH falling asleep in 2.5. I think mine can do in 1.6. ;-)

My DH can fall asleep in an instant too. I'm pretty sure it's a little more than 1.16 but I probably a little less than 2.5. ;)

I get vivid dreams when I'm having migraines. I have no control as I'm not a lucid dreamer at all. DH knows when he's dreaming.

I write in my journal every time I have a dream with as many details as possible. Besides distracting me from the migraine pain it takes the power away. Even though I often wake up crying or sad writing it down or telling DH about it takes it the sad feeling completely away.

It is very weird to wake up thinking your dream was true. And I've had some doozies.

So very sorry you are going through this. I hope you can find a way to lessen or even get rid of it.

Barring that I hope you find a way to somewhat make friends with the monsters in your head.

I fell asleep around 10:30 last night and had the most vivid, bizarre, and slightly disturbing dream. It was so DETAILED and seemed to go on for HOURS before I awoke, thinking my alarm would surely go off at any moment, because I had been on such an odd and extended adventure in Dreamland. I was shocked when I looked at the clock and saw it was not quite midnight. It's so very strange when that happens -- definitely an "otherworldly" feeling.

I used to get nightmares often due to a side effect of kidney disease but now I use tryptophane and I don't get them anymore. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/tryptophan

Thanks for the comments everyone! I felt very whiny when I posted (just tired I guess!). I'll look into what I'm taking now to see if nightmares have been reported by patients. Also, I'll take a look at tryptophan. I tried melatonin for a while, but then I read that it messes with your sleep cycles, ultimately...

Also, don't they need you to actually sleep during a sleep study? That would never happen if I'm in a strange place...

I used to see a therapist but didn't get much out of it. But, yes, I am pretty messed up in the head. The brain is scarily complex. Like, what IS going on in there? Nothing beneficial, most of the time :)

Penny,

I was just speaking with a co-worker who has your exact same problem. For her ambien is the answer. I know it isn't for you. She did participate in a sleep study. Apparently she was not going through the normal stages of sleep. I can not remember exactly.

If this were happening to me I would see a psychiatrist/physician. However, I think a psychiatrist would be better. They know so much more about medications and the brain. There might be something you can try to take to help you sleep better. I would also start seeing a therapist again. There must be some underlying anxiety or even depression that are contributing these horrific dreams at night.

I have insomnia and take trazadone. It works well for me, but not everyone. I wish I had an answer for you. You are NOT whining! Sleep is one of the most important things that our body needs and if yours is so dramatically and horrifically disrupted then you have every right to complain. I hope you find some answers!!! I would try my best to get into a sleep study.

The brain is scarily complex. Like, what IS going on in there? Nothing beneficial, most of the time :) - pennydesign

I did laugh at that. That sounds like my brain and it actually gets some sleep.

I've bizarre vivid dreams all my life, some are nightmares, some are not. Very few are happy. I actually love going to sleep because there's always a chance it won't be a nightmare, and then if it's nightmare-it's such a relief to wake up. Sometimes I write them down, sometimes I forget details but remember the general developments, the terror, etc. Some I remember for years, some, decades, so horrifying they were.

Well all that was to tell the following story: when I first came to my current neurologist, she asked me, among other things:

-Do you have vivid dreams?

I was very surprized, and answered:

-yes, all my life..I'm actually quite proud of my dreams, they can be very elaborate..but how did you guess?

She didn't answer anything, she had this sort of strange expression that led me to believe there's nothing to be personally proud about. Has to do with I-don't-know-what, probably. Lol. And she probably sees it often, with her line of work.

I also have bad sleep for several years already, and sleeping pills dont help. except for a day or two. One gets addicted to them in a moment, and ten they don't work. Actually the only thing that helps and gives me six hours of uninerrupted(usually) sleep is a certain anti-psychotic medication. Don't worry, just in case you do, I'm not psychotic (or so I hope)). It's the lowest dosage existent, and in that lowest dosage it's known to help with sleep, Took some time to figure out how much I should take-one pill kinda wasn't enough, two made me very moody and irritable in the mornings. So one and a half it is. I'm trying to get back to one pill only right now.

I'm a bit reluctant to just share it, because when one googles it it sounds harsh. but if you think you want to know the name and might be helpful- let me know, please?

Six hours is a bliss, when one cannot sleep.

I also have a routine lately-I read before falling asleep. Very calming.

As for Valium I take a lot of it but not for sleep and not for anxiety-it's a muscle relaxant. And i need a lot of it and one gets used to, with years, and the dosage goes up, so to me it's spending all its strength on well, relaxing muscles, and already doing worse job. In the very begininnig yes it helped to sleep and all. Now it doesn't do all that. If I want to function somehow I have to take it. Actually keeps me on my feet, to a degree, which I sorely need.

in short. brain is a black box. doctors just know more about how much they don't know yet.

Penny I really hope you'll find something. And please don't hesitate to tell me if you want to know the name of my supposedly scary medication-I'll message you or something.

(my DH is able to fall asleep anywhere. in a minute, and sleep for hours. on the other hand he severely undersleeps, sometimes going for couple days without any sleep at all, sometimes going through the week sleeping couple hours each day, catching on some sleep on weekends only. That's because he has tons to do, and he's a perfectionist, and also doesn't have a good feeling of time. I can tell time almost precisely without looking at the clock, I can wake up per my own orders-he completely looses track of time with everything. It's very worrisome, to undersleep in that way, and he's not able to do something about that vicious circle, or so he says. we're both at our wits end. He already fell asleep while driving once, that was before we met, years ago. Miraculously stayed alive just with some scratches, the car was totaled. I know of several cases like that, not all of them end happy. You can imagine it doesn't add to my well, emotional well-being)

Penny, hugs...sorry for the long post, as usually I intended to be brief...))

Had to comment because this has become a recent problem for me. I'm sure it's a result of taking the statin Crestor. Although it's one of the statins that doesn't go into the brain as some others do and therefore isn't supposed to cause vivid dreams - I believe I'm susceptible. And do have vivid dreams every single night. Rarely, nightmares though, thankfully.

I've got a very active imagination and I think dreams are an expression of that. Every single night though makes me resentful, but I know the statin is important.

Good luck, I'm also sorry you're having this problem.

I think my BIL is somewhat narcoleptic, as he will fall asleep almost anywhere, especially when riding in a car that he is not driving. I have no idea how this affects his dreaming, however. My maternal grandfather also used to fall asleep when sitting on a sofa without sufficient stimulation. I do wish I could sleep so easily. I do fall asleep easily when first going to bed, but I often do not stay asleep, like tonight.

Like Lars brother, I learned to control my nightmares. This was in my teens and 20s. I did eventually grow out of having so many nightmares. Now when I have the occasional nightmare, I am not as able to control it because I don't practice it while awake. If I recall correctly, it involves reminding yourself before falling asleep that you can control what happens in your dreams and walking yourself thru what you'll do when you start to have a nightmare (for example, turn the bad guy into a fairy godmother, have a friend rescue you from the evil creatures, etc.).

Wishing you luck with a solution for this problem. Sleep is essential.

With respect to nightmares, I have almost always been able to wake myself up if the dream is going in that direction, or if there is an underlying feeling of menace, even if undefined. I have no idea how I am able to do this though. I don't prepare before falling asleep, as daisychain describes above, but there must be some kind of understanding/knowledge that I'm dreaming and I actually sort of jerk myself out of the dream.

I've also almost always had pretty vivid dreams.

I think it's possible (I've done no serious research with respect to this) that as we age our sleep continuously changes based on hormones, pain, oxygen issues (sleep apnea), life, etc. And therefore our needs or abilities to get good restful sleep is a moving target.

But penny, nightmares every night is completely awful. I hope you find something that helps you consistently.

Lars, I found that magnesium supplements have helped not only me but several others I know get a much improved night's sleep. I will occasionally still do the 3 a.m. thing but only occasionally. It is common to have strange dreams when first using it but they eventually stop.

I did a bit of googling and think I would go to an endocrinologist before seeing a therapist. In the following article I thought this was interesting about the pineal gland producing melatonin. I never heard of that gland. Maybe your pineal gland is producing too much causing the insomnia and nightmares.

https://www.reagent.co.uk/the-chemistry-of-dreaming/

Thanks, Whatsayyou - I will look for some magnesium supplements. It's worth a try. I went to bed at 9:00 tonight and woke up two and half hours later, unable to go back to sleep.

Lars, also give it time to kick in. For me it was approximately 2-3 weeks when I noticed I was sleeping through the night. I take 500 mg/day.

Lars, also look into different kinds of magnesium. I learned here that some types are easier to absorb than others.

Yes, to daisy. Jigsaw has a lot of info regarding the different forms.

Wow Penny. Sorry. That sounds tough. I also have very vivid and mostly disturbing dreams. Some are just strange but not upsetting. But not every night. I don’t sleepwalk, but I talk, yell, laugh and cry. That usually wakes me up. The other night I woke up punching the mattress! I don’t know what’s going on in that brain at night. It’s worrisome but for me it’s not a nightly occurrence.
I don’t take any medications. No remedies for sleep. Last night I had a dream that I went to get my hair trimmed. I looked in the mirror and it was practically all chopped off. Not a nightmare, just weird.
Hang in there. I’m sure you’ve tried everything. The soothing peaceful music someone suggested? Very low in the background?

Yes, most things tried...

I will make a couple of changes that have been suggested and see what happens...I do think, though, that there are permanent changes that occur post (and during) medication usage. But we all have to prioritize when it comes to our own illnesses...

Do you get nightmares if you sleep with a light on?

https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20110119/light-exposure-may-cut-production-of-melatonin

So sorry you are experiencing this. I used to be a champion sleeper and then it all changed with menopause. I go to bed anxious that I won’t be able to fall asleep of course. Most nights I lay awake till between 1-2, wake up at 4-ish, and then sleep on and off till 7:30-8. I honestly don’t know how I’m functioning.

Really sounds like many of you are suffering with various sleep disorders, also :(

It's kind of sad when you really really just want to fall asleep at 11 and sleep all the way through (pleasantly, if possible) until 6 or 7....It seems like such a small request but would honestly make all of us very happy. Like winning-the-lottery happy...Feeling like pleasant dreams is an unattainable goal and only a really fond memory isn't fair to my way of (petty) thinking..

But many folks have much worse problems, for sure.

Bestyears, no...no lights, no electronics...

The thing is, I could do so much if I would get up, (I could go to the gym...or grocery shop...Or build a house). BUT, I'm really afraid that I'll miss that "window of opportunity" of falling asleep.

Probably falling asleep trouble, tho, is my anxiety due to knowing what will happen when I AM asleep...

Last night was pretty good. Sporadic sleep and NO nightmare. Sadly that's as good as I can expect.

Penny,

I mean in the grand scheme of life, it's minor.

Far from minor! Lack of sleep can cause other issues. I feel for you, and hope you and everyone else here with sleep issues finds something that helps.

When I had small children, for years, I would wake up during the night and stay awake from 2-4 hours. I could never sleep in since they either woke up before I did or I had to get them up and to school, It just became "normal" for me, but looking back, it was far from it. It was just my normal.

As an adult, DD1 has experienced sleep issues. At various times she's taken Ambien, Benadryl and magnesium. She also drinks certain teas at night.

I've had very vivid dreams and excellent recall of my dreams since childhood. Occasionally I'll have a nightmare that leaves me feeling unsettled the next day. I tend to have dreams with the same theme-different scenarios, but the same theme. Lately I've been having nightmares-and I've actually had a couple dreams where I died in the dream!

What I started doing a few years ago is writing down my dreams (and nightmares). Later I'd reread them and I started noticing a pattern in them. Eventually I was able to tie them to different emotions I'd been going thru and things going on in my life. The main theme I kept finding was that I was always having to lead people and I was resenting it.

In any event, after doing this for several years I've found that I'm more easily able to redirect the dreams and process the emotions that they represent better in waking hours. I wish I could sleep more than 3 hours at a time-I wake MULTIPLE times during the night-so I wouldn't remember the dreams, but that's just something I've dealt with for many years too. Interrupted sleep is the worst and it may be causing the nightmares.

Anyway-it's something to try that isn't medical. Might help-might not, but you'd have an interesting read! Sometimes I reread them years later and I can recall that dream just as vividily as the night i had it. Others I dont' remember at all.

I'm so sorry to hear about your sleep issues. For the most part I don't have any except once awakened such as getting up I can't go back to sleep easily and I can't nap. For the first two weeks of my daughters life I was so sleep deprived and probably had about 6 hours of sleep total and the longer it went the harder it was to sleep for me. Worst time of my life, which should have been a happy time. Sleep is very important so don't feel bad about posting about it.

A couple of thoughts. A sleep study would be good and many are now done remotely so you can be at home. You just have to have the sensors attached to you, so some discomfort, but not like being away from home as well.

The other is you might want to check your bloodsugar or how you feel when you wake up from a nightmare. I'm a type 1 diabetic and my body uses nightmares to wake me up if my bloodsugar drops too low. It is possible for people with functioning pancreas to also have low bloodsugars (hypoglycemia) and it could be your body is trying to tell you something. Shaky feeling, sweaty and a host of other things can be symptoms of hypoglycemia. On the other hand high bloodsugars make me sleep really light as well so I do everything I can to stay between 70-90 mg/dl overnight as that is when I sleep the best.

There are so many things that can affect your sleep as seen in this thread alone. I just hope you can find something that works for you.

..is weed legal where you are? or CBD oil, at the very least?

I'm used to it, so doesn't help me with sleep, (I mean the medical one, high CBD content)-but I imagine for somebody who's not used to it, it should have a very calming effect.

Be careful with any substanse though, it's all so personal..melatonin that many people take, almost sent me to an emergency room..valerian root once made my night literal hell, that's a separate story..would be funny if wouldn't be sad.

Very innocent things that agree with most can be very incompatible with you. I don't take any new pill, for whatever it's intended, without being extremely cautious, starting small, monitoring everything. I'd say I can't take 80% of medicines out there. For whatever condition. even if it's antibiotic that I was fine with for years. It was fine-and now it's not. I don't take any supplements, nothing. I'm afraid to throw off balance which is very easy to do in my case.

I hope you'll find your remedies, and your balance.

and no, it's not a minor problem. Sleep is essential. I for example need whatever's left of my brain-i'd like to be somewhat useful to people I love. I guess I'm not a special snowflake in that regard. One wants to function? well it means he has to sleep, in between.

Sleep has a strong biochemical element to it. I am not much of a dreamer, but I have weird dreams when I take B vitamins, particularly vit. B12. I am not the only one who experiences this. Same with melatonin, I only use it sporadically to get me over a hump of one of those times when I'm waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep. I would definitely consult with my doctor, there could be many substances you are taking or eating that could be affecting your sleep. Even what you eat for dinner and how late you eat it. Also, stress has a strong biochemical element to it. If you are stressing about something, it is going to affect your sleep. Some stresses cannot be removed, but definitely there are some techniques to manage the side effects of having them, so I'd look into that too. For example, an untreated anxiety disorder could be affecting your sleep. I wouldn't resign myself to these problems, I'd try to find a good doctor to work through them with me!

Very interesting thoughts and thank you so much for your kindness everyone! I kind of expected that my post would get glossed over...I underestimated everyone's willingness to share, and help. You're sincerely wonderful folks :). I guess it's the kind of thing that only seems like an inconvenience...but the reality is that lack of sleep (and nightmares) are both debilitating...

April, I'm like you in that meds don't seem to affect me in the expected way...A lot of them, from pain killers to anti-anxiety meds don't seem to work on me. Weed is not legal here, so I won't say if it helps or not...but I imagine that it relaxes me enough to fall asleep. And that, in itself, is like a little vacation from the norm...

I have magnesium that I haven't taken in ages (I'm supposed to take it while I'm on this other med) so I'm now taking that at night.

I do take Plaquenil (an anti-malarial that was prescribed for my RA) and just read that a rare side effect is nightmares....

I do know that I have trouble relaxing...you know that feeling of sinking into the mattress? I rarely get that. I noticed this morning that I sleep with my shoulders hunched up...and he nightmare thing is causing this cycle of anxiety/nightmares/anxiety...

And now I'm boring everyone with my issues... And I'm sorry for that...I tend to ramble when I'm tired.

Oh plus no naps for me. I just don't have that ability. :(

Penny, I get a MSI massage every other week (Myofascial Release and Structural Integration Muscular Therapy). She taught me to relax my lower jaw, since it sends relaxing notions to the rest of your body. It took about a week of consciously doing it, but now I don't even have to remind myself unless I am stressed out. I'm not waking up clinching anymore either. Have you tried any type of massage to help with your shoulder hunching and relaxing?

Thanks for the tip, Allison, I'll look into it...the thing is, so many things that many people find relaxing, I find the opposite. Like massages, chiropractic adjustments, even simple things like manicures/pedicures...

Clearly I have issues :-/

Hang in there Penny. If it helps having people thinking about you and sending good thoughts (vibes) in your direction then go ahead and let it out here. A safe place to do it and it can’t hurt!

I completely understand. I only recently started doing mani pedis, and it can't include any kind of foot massage. I only gave in to the muscular massages because my neck was hurting 24/7. It has helped me tremendously.

You know with that RA medicine, you might be able to adjust the TIME you take it, and that could have a positive effect. Or perhaps try another medication. At least ask your doctor if there are other alternatives or alternate formulations. Just because it doesn't say there is this or that side effect, doesn't mean you won't get one. I can't begin to tell you all the trouble and doctors and tests I went through once, to finally discover that I was allergic to a DYE in a pill I was taking. Apparently no one else ever reported that reaction and my doctor didn't think of it. I only realized it after I stopped taking it and then started up again. And, there was no alternative that didn't have the dye! Luckily I was able to sub an over the counter medication, and once I realized it was an ALLERGIC reaction, (not a fungus or bacteria or virus or something) I was able to treat it. So there you go, an example of the kind of sleuthing you may have to do on your own. But a sympathetic doctor is always nice to have!

Good sleep is so important and I understand how hard it can be when you can't get it. I hope too that you're doing better... don't ever feel remorse about sharing. In doing so, you're helping others without knowing it and in turn someone's experience here can help you. Sending good thoughts you way.

I think Penny isn’t here anymore.