I'll freely admit my curmudgeonliness by saying that I find it annoying when they ask if I "need change." I'm going to tip, and I'm going to tip well -- but asking me if I want what I have coming to me is making an assumption that a tip is somehow a given. Maybe it's a ridiculous little song-and-dance that I expect to transpire between a server and myself. Probably it is. But I still think asking if want the remainder of my money back is presumptuous. If I don't need change, I'll tell the server -- but the server should not be asking me. No doubt they ask to avoid having to return to the table again if the change was NOT wanted back, thereby saving time in an already-busy restaurant, but whatever. I'm grouchy about little stuff, and today I really don't care.

Yes, we pay cash and give a tip based on the before tax amount. We then add the tip to the total including tax, rounded up or down to the nearest dollar. Example if the before tax is $35.45, We tip $7 added to the total plus tax. Then if it was $42.66, we give $43. If you want the change back first, just say bring me my change and I will leave the tip on the table. I think most now do like we do, so she probably thought the 66 cents was her tip. My Dad, bless him, thought he was a good tipper by leaving a $1 per person at the table. We used to just slip back and add to the tip he left on the table. We tip 20% for excellent service, 15% for okay, and we never go back for less than that. We will most likely give at least 10% unless you are totally awful, but won't give the restaurant a second chance.

We don't just leave the money, we like to give it to the server.

If you want to put it on a credit card and still leave a cash tip, just put 0 or cash tip in the tip line and rewrite the total, then leave the tip. Example $75.00+ tip$0=$75.00, we then leave $15 cash on the table.

Try just leaving the amount of the check plus the tip to start without waiting for change. Give it directly to the server,

I pointedly never said Martha was wrong,i said it was "unusual" and it is. Simple, normative fact.

mtnrdredeux -- she had to return to the table because my friend paid with a CC and she had to bring that back so it was not an unnecessary trip for her.

Just saw this. I think the waitress giving you a $ and saying here was rude and inappropriate for sure. But I also think, and people are free to disagree with me of course, that we could all be a little more thoughtful. If your friend was paying on a credit card, why didn't she pay for both of you and than you could pay her? If I were a waitress and I had a table splitting a small bill like that, I'd be a bit annoyed. You are not wrong, but ideally one could be more thoughtful about it IMHO, in saving the waitstaff some time. Yes, you are the customer, I get it. I am just saying it is nice to consider what is easier for the waitress if it is not real trouble to you.

The waitress, however, is definitely wrong for making you feel bad/uncomfortable.

"I'll freely admit my curmudgeonliness by saying that I find it annoying when they ask if I "need change.""

Oh gosh, that reminds me of my childhood. This practice infuriated my mother, and she would cause a big scene if they asked. It got so bad that I dreaded paying the bill, and I always said a little prayer that they wouldn't ask when taking our payment! The worst were the servers who asked even though it was a credit card inside.

One time the bill was $20 something and my mom paid with $100, and the waitress asked if she wanted change, but she was just kidding. That's the only time I ever saw my mom laugh about it!

Back to the topic at hand, I'd be inclined to believe it was a misunderstanding. Waitressing is a busy job and counting out change is probably frustrating when the majority of people just leave it anyway. It's still her job though and she should always bring the change. I think I'd try to make life easier and just include the tip money in the beginning.

I made sure my server had it in their hands last week. More than once I saw people eying the money on the table before we got up. I was shocked to see co-workers eying the money.

Four of us go out to lunch together frequently, different places, different cities. We tend to order similar dishes and the difference in price isn't anything among friends. We have one bill, toss in all four of our cc cards and we get back four folders for each card with the bill split evenly four ways. This seems to be very typical for groups and not unusual in the Bay Area. I figure out what 20% is and everyone adds that tip. I have never had any indication that this isn't convenient for the waitperson.

The wide diversity of practices described (and peculiarity of a few) is exactly why it's so common outside the US, especially in Europe, for a flat percentage amount to be added to bills or to menu items. And the menu will state "Service included" or "X% service added to total". So how is good service encouraged? People waiting tables are properly trained and supervised.

In many places, tips are pooled among all working the shift anyway. Personally handing the server a tip sounds like it would lead to awkward moments. Do you expect a curtsy from females or handshake from males in thanks and gratitude? You can be sure if someone has sticky fingers for other people's money, the staff themselves will police it first. If you have a concern, pay with a credit card.

mtnrdredeux -- I would not ask someone to put my bill on their credit card. She is a good friend but I don't know her financial circumstances -- wonder if MY bill put her over the limit and they had to come back and say it was declined? She didn't offer and she knows I always pay in cash.

Another scenario -- what if I had just handed her $9 -- would she have come back asking for the 34 cents? Isn't that the same?

I agree with Indigo about posting.

India?

Martha, you must deal with other service providers. You get a haircut, a manicure, a massage, have workers in your home, whatever.

You tell them what you want, you ask them how to pay or similarly tell them what you have in mind for paying. This isn't that complicated, you just shouldn't assume they know what you're thinking of doing, what your preference is, what you're planning to do. Speak up, exchange thoughts. Done.

Martha, I understand your reluctance to put your friend on the spot about her cc, but in my circle of good friends, someone is almost always willing to take the cash and put the meal on their cc so they get the mileage benefit on their airline or other credit card. I usually ask if anyone at the table wants my cash, then pay both our bills with her credit card. Some people are happy to have some cash and skip a trip to the cash machine or bank, sometimes people decline and so I just pay with cash.

But relationships differ and if that isn't the norm in your circle, then I think it's considerate of you to not do something you feel might put her on the spot.

I think maybe we're a bit more casual about such things around here.

I agree with gardengal...it's the amount, .66. Also it may be where I live. In Colorado, $10 is so inexpensive for lunch. What a deal! Coffee and a danish is $8.75 + tip here.

Olychcik....we also do that. One check for the whole table, I hand over some cash & one person pays. If I pay a little more....that's fine. I've "never" had a server agree to individual checks if there's more than six people.

Hmm, it would never occur to me that someone, especially an adult, could put their meal on a credit card but not my $10 meal. That'd be playing it pretty close.

I also don't think I have ever seen someone "eyeing a cash tip I have left on a table. My goodness.

My experience is closer to Olychick's.

But again, the only person so far in the whole thread who is unequivocally "wrong" IMHO is the waitress giving back a dollar.

Martha, I don't think you did anything wrong. I've had that happen as well - sometimes with a far larger denomination of bill. I have solved that problem by simply ALWAYS using my cc. I want the FF miles anyway, and I can include the tip when I give her the folder back with the signed bill (I add the tip at that time). It sure saves a whole lot of miscommunication and having to deal with people who can't make change.

I can’t recall ever being in a restaurant when the server didn’t ask “Is this one check or separate checks?” Just this week, I was out with 11 other people and the server brought separate checks. She didn’t ask, but someone else might have arranged that ahead of time. I’d say the group was evenly divided between credit card and cash payers.

A few friends have had teens work waiting tables. We were told management doesn't always give the full tip. So we use a credit card, sign it & write cash in the tip line. When they return with the card we hand them the tip.

If your friend was paying on a credit card, why didn't she pay for both of you and than you could pay her?

I think there are lots of reasons someone wouldn't like this. Maybe they don't like to carry/have cash (that's me -- I NEVER use paper money. I don't like spending cash b/c I put everything on my card to get cash back, I detest getting stuck with change that I don't know what to do with, I don't carry a purse so I have nowhere to put it, I can't deposit cash b/c I have an Internet bank).

Or maybe she and her spouse have separate accounts and split the credit card bill and she'd have to remember that she was given this extra $10.

We always split checks unless my husband and I are treating whomever we go out to eat with. I wouldn't expect someone to put my bill on their credit card either (And, in fact, would be annoyed by this b/c I'd want to charge it myself). No one has ever batted an eye about splitting checks -- but we tell them up front so they know beforehand and can keep track of whose is whose.

Someone “eyeing” a tip might be taking a quick look to see if enough was left. I’ve done that before with my ex FIL. He wasn’t always sure how to tip but didn’t want any input. I’ve added money discreetly on occasion.

Nicole -- we live in the midwest -- in a small town -- EVERYTHING is cheap here. We can get a one piece chicken dinner with salad and a potato and bread at a restaurant for $6. Close to $10 for lunch to me is on the expensive side but I was "in the city" where things are higher (a similar meal here would be half that). That being said, we DO have nice restaurants in town where the cheapest dinner meal is $15 but the entrees go up from there all the way to $50 for an organic steak. We also have a restaurant that serves lunch where it is $9 for a hamburger and $11 - $15 for an entree for lunch. But that is not the norm -- the $6 chicken dinner is! None of these places have ever kept my change! LOL!

I didn't read all of the replies, but your last idea would have been the way I did it. Servers really count on tips and I'm sure that she just thought that you had only left her the .66 as a tip.

You wrote: "I would have left that 66 cents as part of her tip and added bills to it
and perhaps I should have just put the bills along with the $10 in the
folder and when she picked it up said that "we're good"."

I think there are lots of reasons someone wouldn't like this. Maybe they don't like to carry/have cash (that's me -- I NEVER use paper money.

Not applicable. In the example that caused the quandary, the poster is paying with paper money.

mtnrdredux -- what they are referring to is my FRIEND may not carry paper money and wouldn't want to put mine on her card and then have paper money.

Oh i see, yes I suppose that is possible. Unusual that someone has a total aversion to money (i mean, was that the case?) but possible. We've kind of beat this to death now I think. What do you think; will you do anything differently, or just chalk it up to one waitress that had a bad day? When you say "it happened 4 times" WDYM? Not 4 times where the waitress was rude about it I hope?

No, no, no, mtnrdredux -- over the last 3 years or so at 4 DIFFERENT restaurants in 3 DIFFERENT locations, I've had the server not give me my change back. What I will do differently, is if I have the bills, put them in with my payment and then be "good to go" -- if I only have a $20, I would expect change from that and then leave the tip in the folder from the change from the $20. Hopefully, this waitress in that case would not give me just a $10 (a $5 and $5 ones) and forget the coins!

I travelled a fair amount during my career, including a fair amount internationally. Whether in a restaurant in Kearny Nebraska or a taxi cab in Rome, the communication is the same. Even in Europe, a coin or two of a non fractional denomination amounting to a single digit percentage can be customary even when service is included. So if the bill is 160 gigawumpus and you have a 200 gigawumpius bill, you give them that and say "Please give me back 30 gigawumpus". Instantly done and understood. Or the bill is 33 and you have 40, you can say, "Please give me back 5".

There's no reason to make someone count out small change if you're going to have them keep it, so simply let them know what you want back. It always works and it's always understood, even if you don't speak the language well. But what you should know is what the customary service component is and how it's expected to be paid.

I was a waitress back in the late 80’s and early 90’s. I never would ask if a customer wanted change, I would always say “I will be right back with your change”. I can only think of a few times where I got “stiffed”. There are now some restaurants using handheld payment systems where the server has to ask if you are tipping and you must add it in before your credit card is run. The servers I have encountered are very uncomfortable with that and I dislike it.

In situations where that is not the case if the server asks if I want change when paying cash I say yes and will tell them they are now getting 15 percent tip as opposed to the 25 to 30 I normally give and why. I would never eat at a restaurant where I cannot comfortably give a generous tip but I don’t expect the server to think it is a given. I got some really amazing tips from some customers (athletes) that were more than their meal and I have done the same (not to that level) but I appreciate a good server. That said, I don’t care if it is a penny it should be returned to the customer.

When I eat out with a friend who does cash only she pays me her share and I put it on the credit card. I think it's absolutely silly to split a check when only a couple of people are eating. The only time I will ask for separate checks is if I know the friend is a cheapskate and won't even tip the bare minimum. Fortunately I don't have to many friends like that but I do know some women who are an utter embarrassment to dine out with. I once excused myself from attending a dining out event because one woman actually suggested bringing baggies to take left-overs home in. It was a buffet. I have never ever seen men do this sort of thing. I also don't see men sitting around with calculators quibbling over who had the meal which cost 49 cents more than the other either. For equal rights sake I will say some men have their own oafish behaviors but it isn't generally about paying.

Since you were fair to males about restaurant bills, I'll return the favor. I have a few different groups of friends (not couples) I have a once or twice a month lunch with. Some are male only (not for any other reason than they are) and some are mixed. Who comes when depends on our schedules, the number meeting is rarely as few as 2 or more than 6 or 7 for each. It happens in one of the mixed groups, the group "mathematician" is one of the women. She takes the total, adds a tip and then divides by the number of people to determine everyone's equal share. We never order the same things at the same prices but who cares? The objective is friendship, not microscopic bookkeeping.

I suspect she did not know how to make change and maybe was poor at math. However, when 'making change', you do not have to do very much math. For a bill of $9.34 with payment of $10, one merely starts with the number 9.34 and counts out change until you reach $10. In this case, she'd lay out a penny and say 9.35; lay out a nickel and say 9.40; lay out a dime and say 9.50; lay out a quarter and say 9.75, and another quarter and say $10. You do need to know what basic amounts add up to such as 50 cents plus 25 cents is 75 cents. If a waits-person does not know this simple routine, then he/she has no business making change and maybe should be moved to a different job such as dishwasher.

Additionally, a waits-person should never assume the amount of the tip. That decision belongs to the customer. Of course, there are situations where the staff tip is included in the bill and that should be made clear by the business. One example: A dinner was being arranged for a group and the restaurant owner stated that an extra setting would be charged for every 7th setting. Water and coffee were included, but other drinks were extra.

I seldom pay with cash anymore so I've never encountered something like you did Martha. I would be peeved if the server kept the change, but I'd have handled it a bit differently. I'd have give singles to the tip to round up or down as appropriate. So if the bill was $9.34, I'd have given $11 and said keep the change. I typically round to an even amount even when paying with a card.

What gets me lately is that whether ordering on-line or paying with those pad/sign with finger things, the orders add a tip option-starting at 20% and going up. Some will allow you to put in a custom amount, but usually it's the option noted above or no tip. At the coffee stand where the barrista is making my custom order that is off the menu, I'll tip but not the 20% I tip at a restaurant! Or the delivery driver from Grub Hub. Even my massage therapist and my hair dresser have those types of payment devices and it annoys the heck out of me.

Yes, neetsie! That really irks me too . I’ve had the bill taker at salons ask, “did you want to add to that?”, as they take my cc. But that’s another topic entirely that we’ve hashed over a few times: tipping. Ugh. As for dining out. CC, always, and Elmer’s way with larger groups over five.

Jemdandy, yes, that's how I was taught to count returned change. But from what I see, young servers are not taught that, possibly because so many people used credit cards. I recall trying to pay with cash when the credit card reader was out of order, and three young servers were trying to figure out my change from a $20 bill. They eventually used a pencil and paper.

Elmer, that is the norm for me as well.

When I was a kid my dad had a seaside food concession on a pier. During the summer the entire family worked behind the counter, me starting when I was about 9 or 10 in the candy section. Back then most candy bars were 5 cents a piece, but my dad, in a money-making move, charged 6 cents per. He also made me count the change back. Multiples of 6 were much harder than 5 to a kid. I was so happy when I got moved to sno-cones that were a simple 10 cents.

Yes splitting it works when it's about even, but if I order something more expensive than the other person or eat more courses...say a soup and a beverage when they don't, then I always pick up the tip too.

Sounds like Martha got good advice & a plan moving forward!

My tipping pet peeve is at my nail salon...they don’t let you add the tip to your card! I HATE that! I actually switched my hair guy bc his salon did that. My new guy uses a Square and has 10%, 15%, 20% and custom options. I always use my card & it’s such a pain to remember to bring cash for the tip when I am getting my nails done. They “conveniently” have a sketchy looking ATM that charges a $4.95 transaction fee in the salon! No thank you! I have been known to run to the Whole Foods next door to buy some bananas or something to get the cash to tip the nail tech! Lol! I really don’t understand why I can’t leave the tip on my card! Waaah! :)

Penny already mentioned how cash is becoming infrequently used in restaurants (and retail) anS mtn made the comment that the only wrong was the waitress giving a dollar back. I think that is unfair to the server. My son waited tables at a restaurant where one lady at a table of 8 or more paid cash and had a similar change amount and asked for the change. The restaurant cash drawer had no coins and she and all the other servers had to try to come up with the correct change, which happened only after a customer at the bar put down some change for the change -- not her tab or tip. And the lady in the group left no tip on her separate check. While it is better to be clear (server and customer), servers get tired, rushed and used to being treated poorly. She probably did expect it because it happens a lot.

I think the restaurant management was wrong for not having any change (not a big deal to have a little change in the drawer or even back in the office, but they didn't), but it comes up so infrequently that my son had worked there a month or two when this occurred. I suspect this waitress may have been in a similar position. I would include my tip when paying, but f you have an issue with change on cash -- I'd mention it to the manager because the change for your bill is the restaurant's issue, not something that should come out of your server's tip change -- if they have even gotten any cash tips that day.,

nini804, when establishments won't let you put a tip on a credit card it's typically one of two reasons; the business owner doesn't want to be bothered with putting tips on a W-2 or the salon workers aren't employees but independent contractors (the "renting a chair" concept) who keep track of, and report to the IRS, their own income, so the salon owner isn't their boss, just their landlord (if you will).

Tip on credit card issue is also because the salon owner has to pay a fee to the bank for every transaction. If it is a percentage (and I think it is), the salon owner doesn't want to pay the additional $ that a tip going to an employee would add to the fee.

Lascatx -- so there's no coins in the restaurant. What happens to the change if I paid the 34 cents in cash (as I often do) and how if your bill is $9.34 and you give the waitress $11 so her tip is $1.66 does she get the $1.66 -- does it go into the restaurant till? Or does she count it $2.00 and only gives the restaurant $9.00 on it's $9.34 bill? And at the end of the night she says, oh, yeah, my cash tips are $5.37 and they hand that over to her? It would seem to me that all servers would be getting some coin tips so how do they get that money if there are no coins in the restaurant?

When the restaurant has no coins, it becomes the server's issue to try to make change, which they will often have difficulty doing since they can't readily carry a lot of change in their pockets, along with a pen, pad or similar, corkscrew, etc. And it slows them down, so they will likely round down to avoid making a customer angry over delays or not enough change. The restaurant deals with the odd amounts in the paychecks. Tips get divided -- often they have set amounts of tips or even the tab shared with other staff in the restaurant -- the bartender, the busboys, expediters -- all depends on the rules of the house. So a server who gets stiffed or shorted due to change issues, pays twice for that problem because the other staff may get a cut regardless of what the actual tip was. But all that gets adjusted, taxes withheld and one check -- or more often now, one auto deposit is made. With credit cards, it's all paper and digital entries -- no cash.

I know this is only one aspect of the original post, but Martha, I'm with you all the way! I happily live in the winter in a small beach town where we have some cash only establishments and in the summer in a mountain vacation area where it is the same. And coincidentally my credit card was just compromised last week and so I plan on using cash whenever I am able to and happily will do that for as long as I can.

Granted I live very close to a large metropolitan area but I have never heard of a restaurant that couldn't make change or didn't have a proper compliment of cash in all denominations in their register!! Heck, even the little mom and pop cafes out in the boonies are able to make change! And I see just as many patrons paying in cash as those that use their cards. Many folks prefer a cash-only lifestyle :-)

I consider that a pretty lame excuse.

Cannot quote for some reason..but if a business accepts cash (can you not take cash) then they must provide change. I tip over what is expected but a tip is a tip and change is YOUR change.

Gardengal, I live in a large metro area an this was in a higher end restaurant. Nearly all of their sales are on credit card -- it was the owner or manager's choice. And I would never have expected that if I had not heard it from the inside. Not even the bar had sufficient change. From some reason, the owner or manager had made the choice not to have much cash and any coins. It's not a lame excuse when several servers stop what they are doing, the bartender has to stop and they are all trying to scramble for change so one woman can have her few coins -- and then not leave a tip. But my point is -- don't take it out on your server. If they are digging into their pockets to make change, that should tell you something -- that isn't the house cash drawer. They may be able to handle the situation better, but it may be a situation they don't have a lot of control over. You don't have to like it or approve of it -- but it is a reality for others and if you aren't aware of it it is probably because your servers have gone out of their way to make it seamless for you -- probably after having problems and paying for them out of their own pockets.

I think there was a recent court decision (Federal?) that prohibits merchants from refusing to take cash payments. I believe this arose when Amazon opened brick and mortar stores that were Card-Only. Apparently Amazon calculated that it saved more being cash free than it cost in fees to the CC companies. Maybe fees are also lower when the merchant's company has its own in-house bank to process cards. For instance, Expedia owns Vrbo, and I think it owns the bank that the site uses to process payments.

Cash transactions are time consuming. There's more opportunity for theft. Record keeping is easier with cards.

Cash is big where there are regressive taxes. Hawaii has a 4% tax on all goods and *services* -- including your doctor, attorney, manicurist, Madam Baba the Fortune Teller...everyone. The result is a larger cash-or-barter economy. (The Madam only accepts cash.)

I've seen some of the nail salons around here ask for tips in cash only instead of credit card. I know the CC company charges a fee and that may be one reason for asking for cash. Another reason may be so that they don't report the tip. I don't know. I rarely get my nails done.

I would think the waitress would bring back the change and then customer can decide the tip to leave. I guess I'm just simple that way...And I think it was rude of the waitress to pull out a dollar and say "here".

I pay like you do, Martha.

You stick the money (or credit card) in the folder. Your change (or card with slip to fill out for tip) comes back. You leave whatever you want, sometimes adding to it, sometimes taking away. If you don't want your change, you just leave before it comes back (obviously not when your friend awaits her card, though).

I have been to a few places that have prices set so that no coins are ever used (these places are usually wheeled) but I have never been to a restaurant with no change.