Formerly homeless Ggetwn grad: Your blessing is there waiting for you

elvis

Great, inspiring story:


"Melson, a born and raised Southeast Washington D.C. native who has lived a majority of her life in either a homeless shelter, public housing, and even an abandoned house at one point, will be the first in her family to graduate from college when she crosses the stage at Georgetown University next Saturday. After attending three different high schools, Melson was the valedictorian of her class at Anacostia High School and earned a full scholarship to college...


Along with having to constantly change schools, she said she was never able to keep a steady friendship with her classmates or let alone a steady relationship with anyone except her mother and siblings. Her mother was a single mother, Melson and her siblings have different fathers which Melson says are each “either dead or in jail.” “People really emphasizes a lot on the homelessness because that’s what grabbed their attention but there’s a lot that I don’t share,” she says. She explains her time being homeless is like anyone else who has been in a similar situation. At times she slept on a cot shared between her and her siblings waking up to the sting of bed bug bites. She has taken what she describes as “three-minute showers” due to not having hot water. And she ate food straight out of a can with a spoon because there were no plates to eat on...


“Reading books gave me an insight into a world that I have never ever seen in my life,” she said as her eyes widened. “People really get rich and buy a house? People really get their dream jobs? It was like a fantasy land to me.”


"Oh I didn’t know that you can spot homeless people a mile away!” she says grinning. “How do you know that I am homeless? because am I supposed to look dirty? Am I supposed to stink? What does that mean? It’s not offensive when people do it but you really can’t tell anything from looking at a person.”


Melson said her biggest piece of advice for anyone facing adversity is to never give up because everything does eventually get better in time. “Just know that your blessing is there waiting for you, you just have to go get it.”"


Full story at the link: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/good-news/former-homeless-student-georgetown-grad-your-blessing-is-there-waiting-for-you/ar-AABe3Wi?ocid=ientp

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

Thank you, elvis. What an amazing young woman.

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mrskjun(9)

Wow, what an inspiration.

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palisades_

Melson said her biggest piece of advice for anyone facing adversity is to never give up because everything does eventually get better in time. “Just know that your blessing is there waiting for you, you just have to go get it.”

Great advice from those who’ve lived it.

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Stan Areted

“Just know that your blessing is there waiting for you, you just have to go get it.”"

Thank you Elvis, for stating what everyone with a working brain should know and a fine example of just what doing the right thing can produce.

The message is to use your talents and abilities to care for yourself and make your dreams come true.

If you are not a dreamer, then use your talents and abilities to at least the minimum and not be a parasite to others and dependent on them.

Unfortunately, these stories won't be popular because there is no victim, and thus no need for a deceitful savior in the form of the democrat party or socialists.

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maifleur01

She was/is a victim like countless others that have not had stable environments. She will carry that fear the rest of her life that any second she could be back on the street. Even worse that she was not good enough to have had what others had. It is great that so far she has risen above it but she subconsciously will always be a victim especially when things happen that she can not control.

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Stan Areted

What good has ever come from encouraging people to think of themselves as victims, labeling them as victims, or treating them as less than capable because of their life experiences?

Technically we're all victims one way or the other.

Buck up, if you can't, get help, fake it till you make it but this victim mentality is

whiny, unproductive, and unbecoming. It is ruining our country.

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maifleur01

Missing the point as usual. It is not encouraging people to think of themselves as being victims it is having helped people who where homeless early in their lives. Few if any even the ones that achieved everything they wanted never lost the deep idea that somehow they were at fault for what happened earlier in their lives. It is something that this woman will have to handle many times in her life. I wish her success but know how hard it is.

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bry911

Thank you Elvis, for stating what everyone with a working brain should know and a fine example of just what doing the right thing can produce.

Let's talk about brains. I have a math brain, so why doesn't the math support your statement. If I had a logical brain I would note that this is just an overwhelming exception fallacy.

Anyone out there should have enough brains to understand a simple confirmation bias, but apparently many don't. Here is the problem with this rather ridiculous assertion, you take someone who did "the right things" with good results to mean all that is required for good results is doing "the right things." This is the problem with starting with the results and looking for the actions that achieved an end, rather than looking at the actions to see what end they achieve. Were you to attempt that, you would find the overwhelming majority of people who did "the right thing" didn't catch the same breaks and ended up with bad results...

You could use this same analysis on people who have won the lottery and establish a profile for winning the lottery, but emulating that profile isn't going to make you any more likely to win the lottery.

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palisades_

Were you to attempt that, you would find the overwhelming majority of people who did "the right thing" didn't catch the same breaks and ended up with bad results...

overwhelming majority of people?

I really like to see real statistic data for that. What is happening in real life around me proves opposite.

But for the young people who seem to have all the advantages, they may still become victims inadvertently to the influences on social media. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-dark-reason-so-many-millennials-are-miserable-and-broke-2019-05-13?mod=mw_theo_homepage

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bry911

I really like to see real statistic data for that. What is happening in real life around me proves opposite.

Have you tried Google? There are hundreds of studies. I am on my phone now but if you can't find some I will help you later. Again though you seem to have a selection bias that is probably a confirmation bias.

How are you studying the people around you? Are you staring with choices rather than outcomes? Let's look at the process. You will have to start by finding a few variables such as consumerism, so we might study people who spend on vanity or luxury items by comparing how a change in those spending relates to a change in net worth. What you will probably find is that those who are poor tend to have high wasteful spending, but you will also find that those with high wasteful spending aren't particularly inclined to be poor.

As for the marketwatch article, there are several problems with it. First, it is the same problem, they are starting with the result and searching for the cause. Next, A discussion on socioeconomic opportunities is separate from one on net worth. Lots of people with bad spending habits have few socioeconomic hardships.

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elvis

maif wrote: … It is great that so far she has risen above it but she subconsciously will always be a victim especially when things happen that she can not control.

...Few if any even the ones that achieved everything they wanted never lost the deep idea that somehow they were at fault for what happened earlier in their lives. It is something that this woman will have to handle many times in her life.

Good grief. You want her to fail. Ah well.

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Rina

How on earth can anyone conclude, from what she said, that Maifleur wants this woman to fail? She's simply showing informed compassion for the fact that a painful past very often leaves permanent scars. And underlying that is the opinion that she, and so many like her, should not have had to suffer homelessness in the first place.

An infinite number of things can affect the course of any life. Doing your best is only one of them.

Brava to Ms Melson. She's wonderful.

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palisades_

Bry, as far as confirmation bias is concerned, many studies have shown it is a very useful concept to employ in wide variety of fields, from medicine, psychology, science discoveries, to social justice, etc…

In the context of this discussion about how people overcome adversities to become successful by making the right choices in life, I have found nothing to support your statement: “Were you to attempt that, you would find the overwhelming majority of people who did "the right thing" didn't catch the same breaks and ended up with bad results...”

Those of us who’ve raised children, or even have observed our siblings growing up and seen how the choices in life made by each individual have largely resulted in their material or non-material achievements. Choices have consequences. Actions lead to results, not the other way around. There is no bias in that. Saying “who did the right thing” does not exclude life unfortunate events such as accidents, bad divorces, a cancer diagnosis, natural disasters, and so on.

But the probabilities of those negative events are minute, and the majority of those negative events’ outcomes can still be improved by making the right choices. As a practicality, many people who make the right choices often end up with good results and are happy.

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Ann

Elvis, I had the same reaction to parts of the maif comment. Sad to desperately want to turn what is likely to be a big success story in years to come into a victim story. I suspect Melson won't spend any of her future in victim mode and I also suspect her offspring won't ever experience homelessness. One person can turn around a situation for generations to come and I bet she's that person in her family.

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elvis

Yes. There was nothing in Melson's statements which indicated that she considered herself a "victim". It's up to her, not some psycho-babbler.

Whether or not Melson was/is a "victim" is entirely up to Melson. She choose to succeed, and she gives no indication that she's going to change her mind about that. Anyone can decide, at any time, to give up whatever their struggles(s) and become a victim. Anyone.

Melson said her biggest piece of advice for anyone facing adversity is to never give up because everything does eventually get better in time. “Just know that your blessing is there waiting for you, you just have to go get it.”"

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Delilah66

She is a remarkable woman. I am grateful that DC provided shelter for her (+1 for social programs) and that she has friends who admire her. SE DC is indeed a harsh environment in which to live. I’d love to see how her life progresses from here.

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Rina

This kind of thinking in boxes really depresses me. "Victim" is not a political slogan, it is a useful word with meaning. Yes, when she was a child sleeping homeless she was a victim of whatever circumstances put her there. That's what the word means -- someone harmed because of circumstances or actions beyond their control. So people cannot decide to become victims. That's a contradiction in terms.

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bry911

With respect, palisades, I have two kids in college. Both are in very good schools because of "the choices they made." But they were also raised in an environment such that good choices were maximized and poor choices were minimized.

Please understand that failure, in this case, doesn't mean moving down. Failure is simply failing to drastically improve your socioeconomic standing by making good choices.

So let's actually start by looking at this idea of "doing the right thing" or "good choices." It is largely a myth to begin with, all people make a series of choices some good and some bad. In reality where you end up, isn't really based on the choices you make so much as the impact of those choices on your life.

My kids would probably be considered on the very low end of the high socioeconomic strata. Regardless of the choices they make, they are statistically likely to remain there. I will argue that they are good kids, who have made good choices, yet unless they end uber rich those good choices have failed to create upward mobility.

The entire idea of mobility being created through the quality of decisions has been disproven so many times. If that were the case then then the opposite would also have to be true. We would constantly see people who make poor decisions moving from the wealthy socioeconomic strata to the poor socioeconomic strata... we simply don't see the mobility in either direction that would be required for this to be true.

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Ziemia(6a)

"But the probabilities of those negative events are minute"

No, palisades, because some 'snowball'.

(Cross posted with bry911.)

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cait1

There was nothing in Melson's statements which indicated that she considered herself a "victim".

Elvis, that was my exact thought after reading maif's comment. Perhaps maif should have read the entire news article before labeling Melson a 'victim'.

Oh, and bry, you're nitpicking, IMO. Not everyone aims to be uber rich. Some of us just aim to keep our comfy, middle class life.

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maifleur01

For those that have never had a psychological trauma you will never be able to understand how those type of traumas will continue to effect your life even after they have been surmounted. This woman and others who have been homeless as children have had multiple traumas in their early life. The traumas this woman has faced and will face periodically throughout her life will affect how she responds to many things in her life. The thought of not being "good enough" will always be there no matter how well she does.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Sounds like Maifleur is assessing this correctly, bulimia and self harming? I wonder how she got the money to stay in school after dropping out to get married. Getting married at such a young age sounds like trying to make yourself a stable family. She has had a lot of help to be where she is. I also wish her the best but dealing with life is an ongoing issue. I can take comfort that she got the help to get where she is now, sort of on parity with those who did not have to go through what she has already. Good story.

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bry911

Bry, as far as confirmation bias is concerned, many studies have shown it is a very useful concept to employ in wide variety of fields, from medicine, psychology, science discoveries, to social justice, etc…

I just had lunch with a biology professor and a psychology professor and neither are aware of these studies, and the biologist was particularly animated about the damage that has been done in medicine because of a confirmation bias.

So I question the veracity of these studies that prove the benefit of something that is largely held as the biggest problem in research.

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bry911

This entire thread is just more victim blaming and those defending it can't defeat one simple question... if the rich are rich because they made good choices, and the poor are poor because they made bad choices, then why aren't more people moving up and down? Tell me why Paris Hilton got richer from 2006 to 2008, a period which included her incarceration...

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elvis

maifleur01

For those that have never had a psychological trauma you will never be able to understand how those type of traumas will continue to effect your life even after they have been surmounted

How do you know that every one of us reading here has not?

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bry911

"Oh, and bry, you're nitpicking, IMO. Not everyone aims to be uber rich. Some of us just aim to keep our comfy, middle class life."

No, I am not. If your contention is that doing the right thing will lead to a higher socioeconomic strata, then it fails when it doesn't. I don't want my kids to be uber rich, but that has nothing to do with whether or not the hypothesis fails.

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palisades_

Have you tried Google? There are hundreds of studies. I am on my phone now but if you can't find some I will help you later.

Here I am still waiting to see what your studies/data are.

Please understand that failure, in this case, doesn't mean moving down.
Failure is simply failing to drastically improve your socioeconomic
standing by making good choices.

Failure is subjective indeed. My mother had been a teacher for her entire career. She still believes she made an excellent choice to become a teacher, on a teacher salary, and had enjoyed a long teaching career. She never considers herself a failure for not improving her socioeconomic standing, neither do we.

Not everyone aims to be uber rich.
That's right Cait. Happiness comes from within.

This thread is not about how the rich are rich because they made good choices, and the poor are poor because they made bad choices, then why aren't more people moving up and down? Tell me why Paris Hilton got richer from 2006 to 2008, a period which included ger incarceration... That is for a different topic.

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Stan Areted

bry911

This entire thread is just more victim blaming and those defending it can't defeat one simple question... if the rich are rich because they made good choices, and the poor are poor because they made bad choices, then why aren't more people moving up and down? Tell me why Paris Hilton got richer from 2006 to 2008, a period which included her incarceration...


Because shallowness, promiscuity, anti social and/or criminal behavior and narcissism, not to mention the release of her havin sex-- are embraced by the left/Hollywood/MEDIA=cool factor=ratings and personal endeavors to be associated with her=more money.

If anyone's children want more, I would hope parents would tell them in this country they can most likely achieve it.

In any event, it has nothing to do with their socioeconomic status.

If you want your kids to be rich, I suggest getting outside with them and shooting hoops.

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bry911

Here I am still waiting to see what your studies/data are.

Have you tried Google Scholar? I would prefer you find sources that you can check citations on that you are comfortable with. However, start with Socioeconomic Status and Gender: Recent Intergenerational Mobility Patterns in the U.S. Just hit the citations section and go for it...

While we are at it, can you show me these pro confirmation bias studies?

Failure is subjective indeed.

NOT IN THIS CASE!

You are presenting a hypothesis which, were it linear, would look something like Y=mx+b... Where Y is the outcome (socioeconomic strata, achievement, wealth, etc.), m is your hypothesized improvement in Y based on "right choices," X is the number of "right choices," you have made (or the net "right choices"), and b is your starting point in social strata.

A failure of this hypothesis or argument occurs whenever someone who makes "the right choices" doesn't improve in socioeconomic strata, or wealth or whatever. All of the people out there who live good and comfortable lives, doing "the right things," like being a teacher, but don't see a change in their socioeconomic strata create a failure of the hypothesis. This isn't to say that they are a failure at life, just that the hypothesis, that doing the right thing will lead to improved socioeconomic conditions, failed.

----

While I understand this may be somewhat nuanced, the nuance is important. We can all agree that making good choices is important. I will even agree that making good choices is necessary to succeed, regardless of what goal you choose to set. However, the question becomes, is making good choices sufficient to succeed?

Furthermore, this idea completely ignores the availability of those choices and their impact once chosen. It is easier to make good choices when more good choices are available to you. It is also easier to recover from bad choices when they cost relatively less. Put simply it is very hard to focus on the important choices in life when some are faced with so so many urgent choices.

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palisades_

just that the hypothesis, that doing the right thing will lead to improved socioeconomic conditions, failed.

"Failure is subjective indeed.

NOT IN THIS CASE!"

Yes it is subjective, but in your case it is not to you because you hypothesize the point of doing the right thing will end up with bad results, as in my quest for supporting studies and data, which I still have not found. BTW, choices in life which lead to results do not follow a linear pattern that you would fit in a linear graph with the x and y intercepts, just as your hypothesis that overwhelming majority of people who “did the right thing” would not lead to improved socioeconomic strata (bad results). Referring back to my post earlier, speaking of material achievements, doing the right things would often lead to improved socioeconomic conditions. For non-material achievements, it’s the satisfaction in what you
do, and what you’ve earned. Case in point, a woman makes a choice to become a teacher rather than a factory worker would have improved her socioeconomic condition, yes? She instills good values in her children, who decide to pursue more education to obtain graduates and professional degrees to become very high wage earners and doing so have improved their socioeconomic conditions. They’ve made the right choices, yes? Are they not happy because they’re not millionaires or billionaires? No. See how your hypothesis falls apart.

Those are just some real life examples to disprove Bry’s hypothesis. And there are no confirmation biases in them. The path to success is full of obstacles, distractions, and disappointments. Making the right choices will help you get there eventually on your own term. But really anyone can choose to make the right choices within their circumstances to improve their life materially and spiritually. The best seller book, The Millionaire Next Door has plenty of examples in it.

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pippabean,

Stan:

"Because shallowness, promiscuity, anti social and/or criminal behavior and narcissism, .......are embraced by the left / Hollywood/MEDIA.......


LOL!

Last time I checked, it's the trumpsters who voted for and still embrace the shallow, promiscuous, anti-social and criminal narcissistic jerk into the White House.

SMH. The comments by wingers.... one just can't make this stuff up.

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elvis

I'm sure you can!

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kaych

Thanks for sharing this uplifting story elvis! With the economy roaring as it is, it wouldn't surprise me to hear of 1000's more similar stories of people beating the odds! Putting America First only increases those odds!

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Jenn Dinosaur-Mom(5)

In a country as wealthy as ours, why do we have homeless children at all?

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bry911

Yes it is subjective, but in your case it is not to you because you hypothesize the point of doing the right thing will end up with bad results, as in my quest for supporting studies and data, which I still have not found

I provided you with a recent study, so read it.

This is not my hypothesis, and claiming otherwise is simply false. You are creating a straw man. The hypothesis (not mine) is that anyone out there who makes good decisions can achieve positive results. My argument against that idea is not its own hypothesis. I feel like I am in some sort of weird, "no, you are" argument.

The volume of good decisions that have to be made to move someone from the bottom income quintile to the middle income quintile are so numerous that they constitute an exception fallacy, and the entire idea that good decisions end up with good results is a confirmation bias. Which you have with your kids, your mom, etc.

You are assigning value to decisions based on their outcomes and some subjective and highly personal, "fulfilling life" metric, that is really just another bias. Here is the problem with this idea...

----

Some friends and I, fund a scholarship to help Appalachian kids go to college. When we started we just funded college, but found it is never the cost of college that keeps those in poverty out of college and so now we offer other types of aid in addition to college. So let's talk about Jack (not his real name), Jack was an A student before his father passed away when he was 14, he dropped to a B student after that. but still managed to beat a 30 on the ACT. Jack's mom works in retail and doesn't make ends meet, in fact, barely makes enough to feed Jack and his two younger brothers. Even though Jack doesn't make a lot of money, in his depressed area, his income since he was 16 has stabilized his family, and Jack isn't going to abandon his family to pursue his education. We were contacted by his guidance counselor to see if we could help.

Now do me a favor and judge Jack's decision not to attend college. Of course, in 20 years when Jack is still stuck in that cycle of poverty, some a-hole is going to point out that it is because Jack made a poor decision, instead of celebrating his sacrifice. Jack isn't alone out there, in fact, Jack is just an amalgamation of 100 kids we have seen in the past few years.

The entire idea of good and bad decisions, or making the right choice, is predicated upon the idea of ignoring almost everything but the outcomes. It is a constructed reality that isn't based on anything we should value. In reality, your kids and your mom didn't make the right choices, they just made choices based on the information they had in front of them. Had those exact choices had poor results, the people on this forum would claim you reap what you sow.

Again, in reality, your kids and your mother were probably faced with a different set of choices than other people were, and the impact of those choices were different. The quality and impact of available choices among different groups are easy to see. My kids were always going to go to college, as are the kids of my peers, as the kids of college professors go to college. To pretend that predisposition for attending college is a decision of some value for the kids, independent of their environment is simply wrong.

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JodiK

Who wrote the rule book that states kids must choose college and career with monetary outcome as the preferred decision and the only measure of success in life? Who ruled that success is only valid if one follows such socially accepted paths of college and career, with monetary compensation to be used for material gain, the more the better?


How we place priorities, and how we measure things like success are not set in cultural concrete, and I find it sad that so many just blindly walk that line, never understanding that those things... priorities, measures of success, etc... are as individual as human beings, and open to any interpretation one feels is right for them.


What ever happened to blazing one's own trail, and not being caught up in the stampede of conformity?


Sorry, but money is not my first priority. Nor is owning more and better than the next guy. My list of priorities and measures is quite different than so many others'...



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palisades_

Who wrote the rule book that states kids must choose college and career with monetary outcome as the preferred decision and the only measure of success in life? Who ruled that success is only valid if one follows such socially accepted paths of college and career, with monetary compensation to be used for material gain, the more the better?

I’d love to see such a book too. Today it’s common for most kids to go to college after high school but it’s not the only option.


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palisades_

To pretend that predisposition for attending college is a decision of some value for the kids, independent of their environment is simply wrong.

At least we can agree on this.

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Ann

"Now do me a favor and judge Jack's decision not to attend college. Of course, in 20 years when Jack is still stuck in that cycle of poverty, some a-hole is going to point out that it is because Jack made a poor decision, instead of celebrating his sacrifice. Jack isn't alone out there, in fact, Jack is just an amalgamation of 100 kids we have seen in the past few years."


Maybe Jack won't be stuck in that cycle of poverty and will become someone like Gates, Jobs, or Zuckerberg.

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bleusblue2

maifleur01 said

For those that have never had a psychological trauma you will never be able to understand how those type of traumas will continue to effect your life even after they have been surmounted.

~~~~~

I knew a child with loving parents but who grew up in a messy chaotic house, ashamed to have anyone drop in. Today her house is spic and span. But there is always within her that idea that she won't measure up. This does not rise to being a victim. This is a simple situation that doesn't compare to this heroic woman's achievement. But I have no doubt that malfleur's perception is correct, that she carries that pain with her today. We can live, even happily, with these conflicts in our lives.

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bleusblue2

Ann

"Now do me a favor and judge Jack's decision not to attend college. Of course, in 20 years when Jack is still stuck in that cycle of poverty, some a-hole is going to point out that it is because Jack made a poor decision, instead of celebrating his sacrifice. Jack isn't alone out there, in fact, Jack is just an amalgamation of 100 kids we have seen in the past few years."


Maybe Jack won't be stuck in that cycle of poverty and will become someone like Gates, Jobs, or Zuckerberg.

~~~~

Good idea. If everybody makes the right decisions there will be so many Gates, Jobs and Zuckerbergs that the US will run out of acreage for all the mansions and private planes.


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Ann

BB2, I don't get what point you are trying to make but think it possible you may have missed mine. These three did not go to or dropped out of college and certainly didn't live in poverty as a result.

Personally, I think college is a good decision for most, but I have a pet peeve about many of the cr@ppy degree offerings that often leave students with big debt and no skills that translate into gainful employment. I think degree choice is at the top of critically important choices a college student makes.

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Ziemia(6a)

"become someone like Gates, Jobs, or Zuckerberg."

They all attended college.

Gates and Zuck - Harvard

Jobs - Reed College - which he attended sporadically.

Jack = no college

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bry911

Who wrote the rule book that states kids must choose college and career with monetary outcome as the preferred decision and the only measure of success in life?

Let's first note that this discussion started because a story of a homeless girl who attended an elite college was "a fine example of just what doing the right thing can produce." So it seems a bit disingenuous to now claim that college isn't somehow an achievement to be celebrated.

However, I haven't said anything about college being even a single measure of success, never mind the only measure of success. In fact, the first time I have typed the word "success" in this thread was the previous sentence . We are talking about whether or not poverty has constraints that inhibit those in poverty from achievement. More specifically we are discussing whether good decisions necessitate some preferred outcome. While I have used moving socioeconomic quintiles as an example of an achievement, achievement need not be limited to that very common goal. Substitute whatever outcome you want, and ask is that outcome universally available at some comparable sacrifice?

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bry911

I’d love to see such a book too. Today it’s common for most kids to go to college after high school but it’s not the only option.

Can you please point to where I said this? When did I use college the way you are pretending I did? Even though college attendance is the most common factor among people who actually do move economic quintiles, my mention of college was only as a specific example of how choices and their likelihood vary among groups.

Replace the word college for food and shelter, or medical treatment, or reliable transportation, or school supplies, etc. and the point remains the same. Which is the point that you all simply don't want to see. That those who are in poverty have a different value system and their choices are more constrained and have more significant implications.

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Ziemia(6a)

"We are talking about whether or not poverty has constraints that inhibit those in poverty from achievement."

Yes. And, it does.

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bry911

Yes. And, it does.

Of course it does, yet so many people out there believe that those in poverty had their chance and blew it. Which is exactly what this thread is actually about. Forgetting all the straw man arguments and semantic crap, it is really about the idea that poor people chose to be poor people and they need to live with their choice and stop complaining or expecting help.

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Stan Areted

Sometimes poverty inspires people to accomplish things they never would have had they been born into middle class mediocrity.


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palisades_

Yes. And, it does

But it doesn’t mean people can not overcome it by making right choices as seen in the story Elvis posted.

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bry911

But it doesn’t mean people can not overcome it by making right choices as seen in the story Elvis posted.

So they just chose to be poor...

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Ann

Jeez Ziemia, that's your comment!

Jobs went one semester, Dell for one year. I miss meanom, who actually carried on actual conversations about hot topics.

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Ann

I don't get your point, Bry. Children didn't choose for their parents to be poor, but they do make choices as adults (and sometimes even in their own childhood - in school and such) that impact their own outcomes.

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patriciae_gw(07)

Bill Gates grew up a privileged child of comparative wealth, attended private school(and a very good one) and had ever possible choice available to him. Zuckerberg also grew up in a well to do family and attended private school. Jobs is the outlier in this group but even he had a stable working family who could afford his hobbies. They were all born brilliant. I often dwell on the lives of those born brilliant in a world that has no way to even find out you are a computer wizard? You could be born into a tribe in the Amazon basin or just some inner city craphole school that doesn't have computers-or a piano if you are a modern day Mozart.

How does the brilliant but unentitled child of poverty get ahead? Some one somewhere has to take an interest. they have to have help. As a nation we dont

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Ziemia(6a)

LOL, Ann

Maybe if you realized Dems are not pro-open borders there would be more value for you to find. (Guess I used to be naive about "conservatives".)


PS: my information source says Jobs did more than one semester. And it's a hurdle to go from HS student to college student.

PPS: choices are made for and by children from the start. For some, those choices create huge hurdles. Some have better luck than others. Some consume lead (water, paint, etc} from the beginning, some don't.

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palisades_

choices are made for and by children from the start. For some, those choices create huge hurdles. Some have better luck than others. Some consume lead (water, paint, etc} from the beginning, some don't.

Ziemia, as it has been pointed out earlier, obstacles are always there, and life is imperfect and full of suffering since the beginning of time, and will be until the end of time. The point of all this is we don’t give up on ourselves and on others, as exemplified in the OP story.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I say the above story shows someone did not give up on her. She left college and her scholarship to get married. She came back divorced and still managed to get back into a school that costs a lot of money to go to. Who helped? How did that happen. I can see being very grateful for that.

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bleusblue2

Ann

BB2, I don't get what point you are trying to make but think it possible you may have missed mine. These three did not go to or dropped out of college and certainly didn't live in poverty as a result.

Personally, I think college is a good decision for most, but I have a pet peeve about many of the cr@ppy degree offerings that often leave students with big debt and no skills that translate into gainful employment. I think degree choice is at the top of critically important choices a college student makes.

~~~~Ann -- I do think I missed that point and was being kind of sarcastic. Followup posts from others still confirm my point -- being a Zuckerberg or a Jobs isn't the be-all end-all of success. And in no universe will their mega success be the general outcome of hard work, good attitude, etc.

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elvis

Ziemia(6a)

"become someone like Gates, Jobs, or Zuckerberg."

They all attended college.

...and they all dropped out.

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elvis

Which is exactly what this thread is actually about. Forgetting all the straw man arguments and semantic crap, it is really about the idea that poor people chose to be poor people and they need to live with their choice and stop complaining or expecting help.

Your opinion.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

The point patriciae touched on is what has been running through my head too.

Yes, this woman took good advantage of opportunities. Those opportunities were available to her. Until they were, she was the "loser" from a broken home with a divorce under her belt who is so constantly derided on this forum.

She's a testament to hard work and a strong social safety net. I wonder what she would think about some of the descriptions of her previous life that have been offered here.

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haydayhayday


elvis:


" ...and they all dropped out."


http://www.facebook.com/zuck/videos/10103553166792061/


Hay




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elvis

I wonder what she would think about some of the descriptions of her previous life that have been offered here.

Which descriptions, lindsey? The OP piece gave information about her life, and posters commented about her success. What could anyone say about her "previous life" beyond what the article offered?

You're unclear about what you're "wondering". Maybe you read something significant that I'm missing here.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Yes, I can see that my comment is a bit ambiguous. The descriptions I am thinking of are not of this woman's life specifically, but of the lives and choices of multitudes like her.

I was remembering all the comments on various threads that describe those people. They have been called losers, deadbeats, it's been said that their misfortunes are their own fault, that having less than a mother and father in a household is the reason that they are shooting schools, that the disintegration of the family unit is the reason for every single ill in our society, that having babies as teenagers indicates that they are morally depraved or that they are murderers for getting an abortion.

But this woman is divorced. She dropped out of college the first time. She most certainly relied heavily on the social programs that are so disparaged by some posters. She is squarely in the camp that some here have labeled "loser."

It's hard for me to see people here congratulate her for her success while on other threads they deride and degrade others in her former position, and regularly advocate for the de-funding of the social programs that allow people in this position to better themselves. To me it sounds hypocritical.

(My feelings are not directed at you elvis, just answering your question.)

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patriciae_gw(07)

College for some one like Bill Gates at the time was pointless. He had gone to a school that encouraged and supported the sort of student he was and was already actively working in his new to everyone chosen field. College would not have addressed his needs. etc.

I agree with Miss Lindsey. that is the point. Because this woman was not given up on she has what she needs to thrive. We need to do this for more people.

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Jenn Dinosaur-Mom(5)

Not everyone has the mind/aptitude for a STEM major in college or a STEM career. I’d argue that trying to force such a person into those fields tends to backfire, discouraging them and destroying their confidence about being able to succeed academically or in a career.


I very nearly was derailed from my own path through college, because of the abusive relationship I was in with a man who saw the completion of a college education as a threat to his ability to keep his stranglehold on me and the relationship - for him, it was a foregone conclusion that he would always work in the family manufacturing business and eventually take over for his dad in running it. I went to community college for my general education courses then transferred to Chapman U - as an English major, a business administration major, before finally committing to graduate with liberal arts/pre law; but math and to an extent, science - have never been my strong suit. The exceptions were probability/statistics, biology, environmental science and geography. For whatever reason, the material taught in those courses was as easy for me to ’get‘ as the less profitable major coursework of all things history, English/literature, political science, law and humanities. My parents went to college at UCLA, which is where they met and married after earning their bachelors degree, then got through their teaching certification, later earned their masters‘ as well. My brother went into the Air Force and gave himself the time to ‘mature’ before really committing himself to college. A cousin had started out as a freshman attending Cal Poly, but struggled to adjust to everything being his responsibility to deal with in addition to academics that required a lot more effort compared to the way he got A’s without even trying in high school. So he withdrew after a semester, returned to live at home and went to community college for his general education classes, then transferred to CP San Jose. His older brother went to Biola. All of us kids grew up in stable homes located in good areas with good k-12 schools, had college educated parents who made significant effort to give us opportunities that both enriched our lives and were focused on our areas of interests/talents. All of these advantages STILL didn’t prevent me from that abusive relationship, my brother from needing more time to be ready to take college seriously, or my cousin from being overwhelmed by the pressures of university where he was expected to do all things adult in addition to the academic load that required a lot more of him just to get a passing grade. And these are just examples from my own family! I imagine that there are many similar tales from past and present one can find amongst a multitude individuals around the country. We got the opportunity to discover where our talents lay, and to make the most of our intellect. This is not the case for so many in this nation, and that means that there are people whose brilliance is never realized by them, or by anyone. Much like the young women who are raised as “stay at home daughters”, receiving very little education - and always via homeschool - because their parents‘ belief system dictates that daughters should be prepared for marriage and bearing children, ideally becoming wives at the age range most people expect their kids to start college. It’s impossible to know if one of these young women could have helped find a cure for cancer or brokered world peace; being suitable for marriage and children takes precedent over encouraging a clever daughter to explore how far her intelligence might take her and how much of a positive contribution she might make to the world. Not being interested in marriage be damned.

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VedaBeeps SoCal 9b/10a(9b/10)

This story is the exception, not the rule. It’s a feel good story because this person beat the odds and everyone roots for the underdog, right? That’s what makes it newsworthy. It ignores the reality of the situations most homeless and very low income Americans face. Suggesting that anyone could do it because this person did is disingenuous at best.

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elvis

Suggesting that anyone could do it because this person did is disingenuous at best.

You can call that disingenuous, but I call it a great example. It's called hope, vb.

____________

lindsey wrote: I was remembering all the comments on various threads that describe those people.

"Those people". Huh.

They have been called losers, deadbeats, it's been said that their misfortunes are their own fault, that having less than a mother and father in a household is the reason that they are shooting schools, that the disintegration of the family unit is the reason for every single ill in our society, that having babies as teenagers indicates that they are morally depraved or that they are murderers for getting an abortion.

No offense intended, but you're engaging in a massive amount of hyperbole here. I'm absolutely sure that no one said that the disintegration of the family unit is the reason for every single ill in our society, that having babies as teenagers indicates that they are morally depraved, that they are murderers for getting an abortion, that having less than a mother and father in a household is the reason that they are shooting schools [sic] (A reason for a person to be disturbed, perhaps, but certainly not THE reason).

Further, although some people are in dire financial straits because they are losers/deadbeats, in that situation through their own fault, no one here ever said that was the case for, well, every case. "Misfortune" implies a tragedy, bad luck, something that happened through no fault of one's own. For example, someone who drinks or gambles away all their money is a loser. When they don't pay their bills because of that, they are deadbeats. Children are never losers or deadbeats.

This is a shame, lindsey, because up until that post you seemed like a reasonable person. Here's hoping it was a lapse in judgment.

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palisades_

I observe pattern of thoughts in this thread that are not in common with Ms. Melson’s and those of MANY successful immigrants and refugees who came here with literally a shirt on their back. Never think of themselves as victims, work hard, overcome obstacles and discrimination, make the right choices in their lives despite their very unfavorable circumstances in the beginning. Parallel universe it seems.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

No offense intended, but you're engaging in a massive amount of hyperbole here. I'm absolutely sure that no one said that the disintegration of the family unit is the reason for every single ill in our society, that having babies as teenagers indicates that they are morally depraved, that they are murderers for getting an abortion, that having less than a mother and father in a household is the reason that they are shooting schools [sic] (A reason for a person to be disturbed, perhaps, but certainly not THE reason).

----------

No offense taken.

If you missed the comments that said what I paraphrased here, lucky you. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has seen them or taken issue with them. I don't need to quote exact comments or call people out by name to prove my point, but the mindset does exist and is stated often.

I guess if that comment lead you to believe that I'm unreasonable there isn't much I can do about that. I don't mind admitting when I've made a mistake or spoken out of line, but when I read that comment again I still stand by every word of it.

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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

How do people end up with the right wing thinking Brain? I can remember being extremely poor. No shoes to school etc etc..

How did I escape being extremely poor. Pure good luck! A guy gave me job.

All this in the USA if you work hard, you can become....horse manure

Everything is luck. Married the Dragon Woman. Didn't know how smart she was and is...

Then there is the genetic lottery. The little darlings arrived and they are way smarter than us parents.


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elvis

lindsey wrote: I don't need to quote exact comments or call people out by name to prove my point, but the mindset does exist and is stated often.

Actually, you do need to quote exact comments or call people out by name : but only in order to actually prove the veracity of your claims.

But of course, you don't have to do anything, and of course you can write what you want, think what you want, believe what you want, stand by what you want. At least, in the US, for now...until the PC police completely take over. In Canada, where you are transplanted, I really don't know about that. No matter, that would be a topic for another thread.

The only point you actually made, at least to me, is that you have a disappointing imagination.

I intend no personal offense, just stating a fact. I don't believe your statements, as I quoted from your post, to be accurate. You don't have to back them up with evidence. I don't have to believe you.

Fair enough, I hope.


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