I really should take the high road. I should. I personally hate the company, but the product is useful. A perfect world it is not. Since everyone else seems averse to actually posting links I will do a few for those interested in the toxicology of Round Up. You will see wild claims but rarely in a scientific white paper by a credentialed professional in the matter. I personally fight for organics and sustainability. I purchase organic food when I can't grow enough of my own, I don't buy or eat feed lot beef etc. Here are some great links First I like Wiki- Sources are noted, and where they are not noted for statements you will seethe (citations needed) instead of the resource number. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2007/03/roundup-is-safe.html "TOXICITY REVIEW Acute (Mammalian) Glyphosate has reported oral LD5Os of 4,320 and 5,600 mg/kg in male and female rats (15,4). The oral LD5Os of the two major glyphosate products Rodeo and Roundup are 5,000 and 5,400 mg/kg in the rat (15). A dermal LD5O of 7,940 mg/kg has been determined in rabbits (15,4). There are reports of mild dermal irritation in rabbits (6), moderate eye irritation in rabbits (7), and possible phototoxicity in humans (9). The product involved in the phototoxicity study was Tumbleweed marketed by Murphys Limited UK (9). Maibach (1986) investigated the irritant and the photo irritant responses in individuals exposed to Roundup (41% glyphosate, water, and surfactant); Pinesol liquid, Johnson Baby Shampoo, and Ivory Liquid dishwashing detergent. The conclusion drawn was that glyphosate has less irritant potential than the Pinesol or the Ivory dishwashing liquid (120). Metabolism Elimination of glyphosate is rapid and very little of the material is metabolized (6,106). Subchronic/Chronic Studies (Mammalian) In subchronic tests, glyphosate was administered in the diet to dogs and rats at 200, 600, and 2,000 ppm for 90 days. A variety of toxicological endpoints were evaluated with no significant abnormalities reported (15,10). In other subchronic tests, rats received 0, 1,000, 5,000, or 20,000 ppm (57, 286, 1143 mg/kg) in the diet for 3 months. The no observable adverse effect level (NOAEL) was 20,000 ppm (1,143 mg/kg) (115). In the one year oral dog study, dogs received 20, 100, and 500 mg/kg/day. The no observable effect level (NOEL) was 500 mg/kg (116)." http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/glyphosa.htm The theme here is. Don't ingest it. (would you ingest fish fertilizer? I got food poisoning from it once as a kid because I didn't wash my hands after handling...not pleasant) Again Don't drink it, don't spray it in your eyes, don't Walk around barefoot while it is wet or spray it on your skin. The best method is in a pump up sprayer on a calm day to minimize drift. I adjust the nozzle for a course spray, not atomizing the fluid like I would for foliar feeding. This prevents drift and forces the fluid to go on the target and not into the air where you can breath it, get it into your eyes or on your skin or have unintentional drift. Care when applying is all that is needed. Once the treatment area is dry it is safe to enter and work around. My occupation is a Safety Professional. By reviewing the MSDS if I was to have an employee applying this material for me I would require long pants and shoes and Rubber or other light chemical resistant gloves and goggles while pouring or transferring it but not necessarily for the application.. The reason I would recommend this is that is the recommendation of the msds http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenewals/documentsubmit/KellyData%5CNC%5Cpesticide%5CMSDS%5C74530%5C74530-4%5C74530-4_GLYPHOSATE_41__11_30_2006_4_57_38_PM.pdf And the fully formulated MSDS http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Monsanto-Roundup-MSDS-Docs7017.htm Recognizing, controlling protecting from and eliminating hazards are what I do for a living. I would follow the manufacturers instructions and recommend anyone do the same. To put this into perspective you will be exposed to between 100 and 200 PPM of benzene the next time you fill your fuel tank at the self service pump. If you can smell gas, you are being exposed. The Occupational action level where mitigation is required is 1 PPM. A person can apply round up and not be exposed to any substances listed as hazardous with a Threshold limit value by the American council if industrial hygienist or a Permissible exposure limit by OSHA. Get this. Alaska fish fertilizer has phosphoric acid that does have a PEL and TLV. http://www.growercentral.com/UPLOADS/PDFS/alaska%20fish%20fertilizer%205-1-1%20msds%20(02-05).pdf EMERGENCY OVERVIEW: Potential Health Effects: Primary Entry Routes: Eyes, skin, ingestion. Target Organs: Eyes, skin, gastrointestinal tract. Acute Effects: Eye: May cause irritation, redness and/or burning. Skin: May cause irritation, redness and/or burning. Ingestion: May be harmful if swallowed. May cause abdominal cramps, nausea, vomiting and/or diarrhea. Medical Conditions Aggravated by Long-Term Exposure: Persons with existing skin lesions should exercise caution when using or handling this product. Chronic Effects: Prolonged skin contact may cause dermatitis. I am not going to quit using Alaska Fish fertilizer either nor am I giving up fueling my vehicles. I would post opposing views but the first one I opened Had a Trojan horse so if you are going to be searching for counterpoints do not open The link from naturescountrystore.com!!! It's infected with a trojan horse.

Hi, Tracey. Boy, would I love to visit Australia sometime! Maybe you can put up pictures later in your season - we'll all be garden-starved by then! I'm by no means the most experienced or best gardener around here but I have fought the grass in the flowerbeds battle. The way I see it, you never really WIN this one. The best you can hope for is to get the upper hand and an acceptable level of control. Grass is always going to pop up here and there. In the case of a bed that's out of control, I don't try to dig out the roots of the grass. I just pull up it along with as much root as possible (yes, I know there are still roots down there). This can be a BIG job and I've found it needs to be done pretty much in one go or it just never ends. I wish you a nice day with pleasant weather, preferably when the soil is soft so the roots will turn loose easily. Once you have the worst of the grass out of there - all that you can see above ground - put down mulch (a few inches deep). I do this after perennials have appeared so I can leave a tiny bit of space around them. You don't want mulch right up against the stems. One trick I use when mulching a bed with very small plants is to turn small flowerpots or even plastic cups over each plant before dumping on the mulch. When the cups are removed - voila! - each plant sits in its little mulch-free space. After the mulch is in place you will still have to watch for grass coming up but it should be a bit here and there rather than a weekend-long job. I've found that if I just keep removing the above ground part of the grass, eventually the roots give up to some extent. Oh, there will always be weeds! That is just unavoidable if your garden is outdoors. Birds and the wind will see to spreading seeds and grass and other weeds will creep in underground or with runners. But once you get control it only takes vigilence to keep things looking nice. I haven't found that planting very thickly really eliminates weeds. It does make them harder to see (don't you hate when sneaky weeds come up right IN the plant you put there?!) but they are still there taking up nutrients and water. And a lot of plants are healthier with a bit of air circulation. Hope these thoughts help. Luckily, I enjoy weeding (I find it relaxing, actually) because it is always going to be part of gardening.

Yugoslava, I will be 79 in September, although I have slowed down to a crawl and not very agile anymore I will never give up my garden, it's what keeps me going. I might be sore when I come in but never in a bad frame of mind. I know what you mean about couch grass, once you have it you will never get rid of it, if one little piece of stolen is missed away it goes again. Even after I cleared all the plants out of one bed, pulled every bit of couch grass I could find, rototilled it every few days for over a month. I replanted and it was great for a couple of years but then that damn couch grass was back, came in under the fence from a neighboring yard. I have one large bed I've dedicated to vegetables, two years ago I decide to try the no dig method, I cleared the bed of most of the weeds, spread some sea soil and covered it with a thick layer of straw. In the spring I added more straw and planted tomatoes, pole beans, sea kale and a few other things. I only had to pull the few oats that germinated, had a great harvest. This spring I added more straw and planted it again. I have a lot of gravel paths, come summer I have several pieces of carpet I move around, leaving for a couple of weeks, then, on a hot sunny day the carpet is lifted and the sun fries what's left of the weeds. This I do in the decorative part of my garden.Down in my back 40 (forty steps from the back door) where the greenhouse is and a few more raised beds I have for vegetables I have started laying done roofing shingles over the gravel paths which so far has really cut down on the weeding. I also invested in a weed torch which I used on my patio made up of left over bricks and other assorted pavers. I used to sit and weed in between the pavers but now just buzz over it with the weed torch. I was out of commission again this summer, NOTE: an ice pack is now my best friend. Needless to say I have a lot of work ahead of me, when a garden is unattended for a couple of months especially in the growing season it goes to rack and ruin in a hurry. I had my hubby make me what I call a steadying tool, really handy. Made out of a replacement handle and a piece of rebar. Great for balance when trying to step in around perennials without trampling anything, stops me from (unintentionally) moving the wrong way, great for bending down to pull a weed without straining your back. Also great for steadying oneself when working on a slope or uneven ground. In fact I have several of these in permanent locations in place of handrails around the garden, works a treat. My garden is what keeps me going, so it's not looking it's best right now, it's still my little piece of heaven, weeds and all. In fact that is what I named my garden :). Annette

How high are the timbers/bed now? You could just replace them with fresh timbers. I had to move my 8'x4'x12" raised veggie bed this spring. I pried the frame up, moved it to where it needed to be, and then shoveled the soil back into it. Point being, the soil mostly stayed where it was after I lifted the bed frame up, with just a bit trickling down on the sides. You'd probably find the same situation: you remove the rotting timbers, the soil mostly stays put, you lay down and secure new timbers, and perhaps you have to do a bit of cleanup shoveling. If you don't want to use timbers, you might be able to use boulders/rocks, depending on how high the sides of your bed are. All of my perennial beds are edged with boulders, ranging in size from about 6" to 12" in diameter. It takes a while to figure out which stones need to go next to which other stones for the best fit, but I like the look of the end result. It's not as easy to weed-whack between the stones, however. I usually just end up hand weeding while I'm tending to the rest of the beds. Timbers are probably cheaper, unless you have a place where you can get cheap stone. I dug most of my boulders out of my yard, and bought the rest at a local hardscape supply yard for $35 a wheelbarrow-load.