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Flooring Bathrooms

For tiling a bathroom, do you need cement board and tile membrane?

5 years ago

Hello all,
I am getting ready to redo my bathrooms and was wondering what exactly I put under the tile.
Is it cement board AND tile membrane, or just the membrane? In addition, I plan to tile the walls and ceiling, do I need cement board there too, or just the shower part?

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Comments (5)

GreenDesigns
5 years ago
Your question betrays your ability. Hire a Pro. https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer
wdccruise
5 years ago
The Spruce has lots of information about the installation of various types of tile. Of course there are lots of books. Home Depot even has one for $5 I think I've seen in a display near the checkout at my local store.
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I'm right at the same stage, and I had researched the issue obsessively because of seeing posts here and on the john bridge forum about how, exactly, the durock meets the flange (in my case on a Kohler shower base, but it seems very similar). Catmom posted about her husband's experience with the shower base, so you might search for that. It seems there are 2 approaches: fur out the studs as Kohler suggests, or notch the studs so the durock sits right above the flange. You also need to make sure the waterproof barrier (black plastic in my case) goes behind the durock, and overlaps the flange enough so it can get trimmed and then siliconed to the edge of the durock. I believe that the tile will extend slightly below the bottom edge of the durock, so you'll kind of curl the black plastic up behind the tile and sealing it to the flange. So far, my guys seem to have done it correctly. As for the second question, I think you just need to ask them to trim and remove the durock. I think they assume you want to tile all the way to the door frame, if I'm interpreting your photo correctly. I'm no expert, but I hope my explanation makes sense! Good luck today.
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The only thing I saw that wasn't kosher was the part about going up the wall behind the cement board 4". By code, it MUSt go up a minimum of 8" PAST the top of the curb, meaning 10- 12" up the wall, instead of 4". Also, I know I'm not cheap by ANY means, and My shower pans, materials included run 30.00 per square foot. IOW, for me to come and install your shower pan would cost you 360.00. You can take it from there. Keep in mind, though, different areas will charge differently.
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Bill Vincent , Membrane needed on cement slab before tile?
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Okay, here's the thing-- Tile has been installed directly over concrete slab since thinset was first invented in 1956. 99% of all commercial floor tile you see is installed directly over concrete. Will it adhere? Absolutely. However, if you've got any cracking going on, those cracks will telegraph through the tile, and that's what the membrane is meant to stop. Does concrete experience thermal expansion and contraction? Again, yes it does, as do ALL building materials. The question is how much. Alot depends on the mix of the concrete, as well as the type of soil it was poured over, how much it was compacted, the depth of the frost wall, etc., etc., etc.. I guess the bottom line is if you have any cracking going on, first check the cracks. How far are they opened up? Are both sides of the crack flush to each other (IOW, is one side higher than the other)? The answer to this last question is extremely important, because if there's vertical movement in your slab, there's not a membrane made that will protect tile installed over it, and you're better off going with a different type of flooring. Anyway, if you have any kind of cracking in the concrete, yes, you need a membrane, and you couldn't ask for a better one than Schluter Ditra. If the concrete's NOT cracked, especially if it's been down for several years, I'd go right over it, but it wouldn't hurt to put the membrane down, first, as insurance.
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It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. You are wise to use a cement board. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty.
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millworkman
5 years ago
What GreenDesigns said...............................
SJ McCarthy
5 years ago
OK....here we go! What is your substrate? Is it concrete or is it wood/joist? What does the surface look like? What is currently ON the floor? If this is wood/joist, what is your DEFLECTION rating for your wooden subfloor?

And so on. And so on. And so on. Those are just the first 5 questions that are from the top of my head. They are the BEGINNING of the DOZENS of questions you will HAVE TO ANSWER before you can get the answers to your question.

Whew! Or you could bring in a tiling expert (not someone who 'does tiles' as a side job) to come in and do the work (s/he will figure this out inside of 5 minutes).
MongoCT
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
twigs,

If using cement board, you want a waterproof membrane of some sort in the wall system.

Easiest, and often the better performing, is to use cement board and a surface applied membrane on the face of the cement board. The SAM can be a sheet barrier (Hydroban sheet, Kerdi, Nobel, etc) that gets thinsetted to the cement board. You then tile directly on the membrane.

An alternative is to use a liquid membrane over the cement board. Hydroban liquid and RedGard are common, though there are others.

Another alternative is to use a foam board that already has the membrane applied to the face of the foam. USG has a nice system.

Regardless of the path you choose, read the instructions for each product you select. They are available online. Watch Youtube videos. Often times the manufacturers have a series. Pro tile installers have them too. I recommend you avoid the jack of all trade video bloggers that do everything only because they are filming themselves, and they usually only do it once.

I recommend you treat the ceiling as you treat the walls.

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