Idea from Newbie - marriage of 5-1-1 and gravel at bottom
sam (SF bay, 10a / Sunset 16)
4 years ago
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Comments (11)
sam (SF bay, 10a / Sunset 16)
4 years agoedweather USDA 9a, HZ 9, Sunset 28
4 years agoRelated Discussions
Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail
Comments (450)@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al...See MorepHof Al's 5 :1:1 mix
Comments (29)Al, I have a many questions being a first year "gardener", well attempting to be at least, but I'll try to narrow them down to the most important. First, here is my situation: I am growing a couple tomatoes, tomatillos, and several pepper varieties in containers. I am using GreenAll soil booster (50-60%) and perlite as a growing medium. I put Osmocote 4 mo. release in the soil as well. I have some New Mexico "Big Jim" varieties I am growing from seeds which are developing their 3rd set of true leaves yet are behind the other plants which I bought from a nursery. Anyway the peppers and tomatillos all look great, except for one serrano, which I found aphids on. However the tomatoes look stressed. I am struggling to figure out a watering schedule. However after reading your post on soils and water movement, I think I have a better understanding of how to proceed from this point on as far as watering. The tomato plants are a little over 12" tall, and have a few flowers blooming on them. I have a small portable greenhouse which I keep the plants in at night, and sometimes during the day. Usually I move them out of the greenhouse during they day so they can get a few more hours of sunlight. When I do, the tomatoes tend to wilt, or droop during the day. However the next morning they seem to have perked back up. I think a big part of my problem is simply not understanding how to water, (I am working on it). When I was getting started the guy at the Green Thumb nursery asked how I wanted to feed them. I told him organically. I didn't know any better. So, here's what I have been doing, I have been using E.B. Stone organic fertilzer spread on the top of the soil, then kind of mix it in a little, and on tomato and tomatillo plants I then cover with a thin layer of earthworm castings. I have had the plants since April. 9th, and have now fertilized twice this way. Also, on Monday, 5-9, I sprayed the foliage with Neptunes fish and seaweed concentrate according to manufacturers recommendation. The peppers and tomatoes look good generally, the leaves on some are not as dark green as others but the leaves look flat, and I think they are all healthy. The tomatoes concerned me, so I bought a cheap pH tester and it reads between 7.5-8. Well, I wasn't sure about the meter, so I bought a chemical testing kit, and tested one of the tomato plant soils. Oh yeah, the soil in all the containers was pretty much the same. according the chemical testing kit. the pH is right around 7, however the Nitrogen, and Phosphorus are all very low. It also tested for pot ash which was very low as well, but I don't know that that is and haven't heard it mentioned in any of the threads. So, having said all that, and sorry for so much information. What are your thoughts on moving forward? I feel like I am kind of committed to the E.B Stone organic Tomato & Vegetable food, and Neptunes. Is it too late to switch to the Foliage Pro 9-3-6? Will I be ok, with what I am doing? should I be worried about the Nitrogen, and Phosphorus, and Pot Ash levels which were quite low? Is all this related to the fact that I don't know how the hell to water my plants? I read about wicking the pot. What do you recommend for using as a wick to lower the perched water table? I know one of the tomato plant pots doesn't drain as well I I would like. I drilled some additional holes, but I think using a wick would help. I addressed my question to Al, but I welcome anyones input as well, Thanks, Jon...See MoreLazy Man's 5-1-1
Comments (49)Hi Bill, I did keep that one in the 3 gal but have since that pic purchased 5 gal. I just don't know what happened to my other pics. System upgrades swapping out hard drives they are on one of the few I have laying around lol. But do suggest 5 gal or more. I wish I could find a bigger bag of the orchid mix but have not. I could however find the organic choice in a 2cf bag so using that and more perlite and less of the orchid mix works out well also. Those Bhuts have very dark leaves, have not seen them that dark before. maybe abundance of nitrogen. Last season I used Alaska fish fertilizer 5-1-1 and some MG liqua feed all purpose 12-4-8 but did not hook it up to the included spray nozzle. I just squeezed the bottle to force the liquid out into my watering container. I don't recommend this process since there is no measurement guideline, doing it that way, the chance to burn if incorrectly mixed is high. I don't really have a feeding schedule, if I recall maybe once every two weeks could be three not sure. I may use what Josh recommended in another thread, where you uses a light fertilization every time you water instead of a full dose every so often; weekly, biweekly or what ever schedule you may have. Hope this helps. Mark...See MoreI did a HUGE 5.1.1 re pot today and wanted to share and ingredients
Comments (66)Hobby, how THOUGHTFUL of you..That made me smile. You made my morning. I miss those storms so much and I am in love with the skies, clouds and any storms I could ever see. Is that little 'greenhouse' still standing? My goodness, I can see that lifted up like the house in the Wizard of Ozz! You are surrounded by such beauty I could only dream of)..Lol you should invest in lizards..They are good at keeping bugs off our trees..lol Laura, lucky you too))) Figinshawaii..Either you like FIGS or Hawaii or both, but welcome. Pip, thank you for your e-mail. I got to read it but for some reason could not respond last night but today I will try and e-mail back) Mike...See Moresam (SF bay, 10a / Sunset 16)
4 years agotropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
4 years agosam (SF bay, 10a / Sunset 16)
4 years agotropicofcancer (6b SW-PA)
4 years agomblan13
4 years agosam (SF bay, 10a / Sunset 16)
4 years agosam (SF bay, 10a / Sunset 16)
4 years ago
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Nil13 usda:10a sunset:21 LA,CA (Mount Wash.)