We had industrial style galvanized siding on our last place and I loved it. We also had a cube shaped home as it was actually commercial space. It was no less homey to me for that. But that being said, flat roofs can make your interiors very very hot in the summer, that’s just been my personal experience. You also have to consider where rain goes, you don’t show any eaves, so is water going to pour off the edge somewhere? Sorry, I’m no architect, not sure how water is directed and controlled with these designs. I know with our last place it was like Niagara falls at the back during a heavy rainstorm and flooding was a perpetual fear as the back roof areas were not properly structured (we shared roofs w neighbours). Also consider stair width etc., our current stairs in this house turn and are very narrow with the additional annoyance of low ceiling height mid way thru, it is a real PIA for furniture moving. The only upside with this is if you fall down the stairs you will stop sooner lol.

as far as the entry I like it better than the one we looked at 2 weeks ago where you entered directly into the dining table.

Oh, my Sweet Summer Child. The goal isn't to create a design better than last week's model. The goal is to create a design that functions well and looks lovely.

the kitchen is virtually identical to the one we've had for the last decade, except the one I designed has more walking space and more light. it stays.

Still a dysfunctional design.

someone reading the responses would think I was the first one to ever do a rectangular or square house when I. fact a lot of architects who do modern design do them

We understand that box houses are "a thing" ... it's the specifics here that aren't working.

the trees have been modelled, they will provide more than enough shade, and if they don't I will do what millions of people who have west facing houses do -put some shades in

Choice 1: Design a house so that the windows /solar orientation make your life easy ... so that you have light /heat where you want it and not where you don't.

Choice 2: Design a house with windows you know will be problematic and create a Plan A (trees) and a Plan B (shades) to deal with those windows.

I suspect it is because many people confuse correlation and causation. There is a very popular myth that the cost driver in a house is the area and complication of the exterior walls. Therefore, we often see people with this misunderstanding want simple squares or
rectangles to maximize square footage versus cost.

Thing is, that's not a total myth. Square footage and complication of design DO affect price ... I know I've used this word too many times in this thread, but it's a matter of proportion. Nothing's black and white. This detail depends upon that detail. A little of something adds character and isn't too expensive, whereas the same "something" taken to the extreme is crazy expensive.

the area in red is the staircase. the landing is extra large and will have a very tall window so you can put a bench or chairs there and have a nook.

I didn't "get that", nor did I note the lack of a staircase, so distracted was I by the choppy rooms.

How deep is "extra large"? A standard landing is going to be 3'-4' ... and you'll need that much space again for the two chairs. Your landing would need to be 6'-8' MINIMUM to accommodate this look.

those million dollar houses had

1. an architect that collected 6-10% of the cost. I checked

2. very expensive land. just the land on some of these builds is upwards of 700k

2. highly expensive kitchens and bathrooms.

3. highly architectural details that increase cost like two story openings, roof monitors,

so, yes, I think i can have modern house and still be cost efficient, using ikea and off the shelf stuff.

Respectfully, you sound like my students as they explain to me why their high school classes are a complete waste of time, given that they are assuredly going to be highly successful NBA players or rappers.

If it were possible to build a custom house at a genuinely rock-bottom price, people would be doing it. LOTS of people are highly motivated to keep prices down, but the truth is that even a modest kitchen or bath is pretty expensive ... houses without two-story openings, etc. are pretty expensive ... and Ikea doesn't sell everything you'll need for a house.

Like the Neil Young song, I brought home an Ikea bathroom vanity and it was a piece of crap. Maybe it’s just the state of things these days.

There's a current and highly related thread going on right now which should be connected to this thread.

Scroll down to Budgethomekits.com

That will solve all DE's issues.

"Respectfully, you sound like my students as they explain to me why their high school classes are a complete waste of time, given that they are assuredly going to be highly successful NBA players or rappers.

If it were possible to build a custom house at a genuinely rock-bottom price, people would be doing it. LOTS of people are highly motivated to keep prices down, but the truth is that even a modest kitchen or bath is pretty expensive ... houses without two-story openings, etc. are pretty expensive ... and Ikea doesn't sell everything you'll need for a house."

in that case then every custom home must be million dollar built since you are implying that a custom house cannot be built on a budget.

there are people doing budget custom builds every day. I guess they just don't come on house to broadcast it. it wasn't that long ago that someone posted thread here showing their house built for $65 a SQ ft. I already got quotes on my single story at $105 a SQ ft. I talked to an architect who does high end modern homes and he said I could build mine for 120-130/SQ ft so I guess not everybody is into subzero appliances and granite countertops

Thing is, that's not a total myth. Square footage and complication of design DO affect price ... I know I've used this word too many times in this thread, but it's a matter of proportion.

A cost driver isn't something that affects price, it drives it. More complicated roofs tend to be a good cost predictor, but they don't drive costs. For a roof or a bump-out to drive costs it needs a linear relationship with cost, and I assure you, that there isn't. Which was the point I was making.

Too many people are trying to use some version of Y=mx+b, where the slope of their cost is related to the corners in their house and that is not correct. Squaring out a bumpout may eliminate costs in a house or it may increase costs in a house by driving other inefficiencies.

Costing out a house is really not that complicated, there are people every day who cost out far more complicated products, but it is also not linear. For example, a bumpout that shortens the joist spans such that less expensive joists or trusses may be used might be much more economical than avoiding the bumpout.

The key to creating ultra cost efficient design is to start with the trusses and joists in a differential analysis. Few people will bother with this, and fewer still will have the patience to use that to make changes and I am very hesitant to advise people to do that. I use it to make very economical builds that I don't have to live in.

in that case then every custom home must be million dollar built since you are implying that a custom house cannot be built on a budget.

Fallacy of forced choice.

there are people doing budget custom builds every day. I guess they just don't come on house to broadcast it. it wasn't that long ago that someone posted thread here showing their house built for $65 a SQ ft. I already got quotes on my single story at $105 a SQ ft. I talked to an architect who does high end modern homes and he said I could build mine for 120-130/SQ ft so I guess not everybody is into subzero appliances and granite countertops

I'll say it again: My Sweet Summer Child.

If memory serves, the poster who built the $65/sf house realized he (or she) had calculated the square footage incorrectly /had included garage (and porches?) in the square footage, bringing the numbers down -- the real number was admirable, but not $65/sf ... and you're talking about quotes /not finished costs ... for a build that doesn't yet have a solid floorplan. You've solidly decided not to believe in reality -- so be it -- you can build cheaper, but you cannot build significantly-significantly below the average cost, even if you're going with Frigadaire and Kenmore instead of Wolfe and Viking and laminate instead of granite or marble. To believe otherwise is to set yourself up for disappointment.

"but you've decided not to believe in reality. So be it"

what does this even mean?

"you can build cheaper, but you cannot build significantly-significantly below the average cost, even if you're going with Frigadaire and Kenmore instead of Wolfe and Viking and laminate instead of granite or marble."

pray, tell, what is the average cost?

4 comments:

1) consider the discussion about turning your kitchen into a galley with an island and not the peninsula. Again - because you have not shared dimensions - it's hard to tell exactly how "deep" that one way street is in the kitchen, or how wide the aisle is - but it's not good for any kind of circulation and flow.

2) Not a fan of the membrane roof system - unless your an find a really good commercial contractor - it will be hard to get that right. Also - again - water management is critical - there are many details that you will need to work out - either scuppers and downspouts or hiding the downspouts in the facade. the parapet and sunken roof choice - while creating a simple box shape is difficult to execute and expensive to ensure you don't end up with a shallow wading pool on your roof.

3) please label your rooms with both dimensions and usage and windows. Not showing the correct stair configuration, not labeling rooms makes it hard to comment. Also- it appears you can easily share this as you have a pretty detailed rendering with all sorts of customization - so it should be fairly easy to share the 2D view in more detail.

4) I think that showing the entry, and the home in a few more views will help get better feedback - what you shared seemed to really downplay any thought you put into the house (I like the entry!) but you didn't share that - you just shared the very rudimentary 2D schematic. I think that folks want to help / provide feedback - but sometimes the way you engage is troll-y - by doing things like withholding pertinent information.

Just_Janni,

1. Thanks. I'll reconsider. the peninsula as pictured has 4 ft clearance and is 12 ft long. so I would hardly call it excessively claustrophobic as some have suggested. here is an example that ive seen in person that works perfectly well

2. what roof system do you like for flat roofs? we have a lot of flat roof commercial/retail structures here so I dont think it should be too hard to find a good contractor. It will have scuppers and downspouts just hadnt put those in yet.

3. sorry, no can do on the windows- i find that some either think there are too few windows, or too many. Im trying to not distract folks. I hope you understand.

4. I understand what you mean. putting a visualization was a big mistake, as again it became a distraction and the commentary became about style, when my main goal in posting these is looking for ergonomic feedback.

thanks

I talked to an architect who does high end modern homes and he said I could build mine for 120-130/SQ ft

Don't you mean "exterior designer"?

I find that people typically manage to find whatever advice they really want to hear. When you write the final check you can tell us what you paid for the house, otherwise it means little.

"here is an example that ive seen in person that works perfectly well"

Someone very obviously doesn't cook. It also looks like two 30" drawer stacks on the end, so probably bigger than 4'.

I cook and I love galley kitchens and hate just about everything else.

A note on flat roofs. The house we're current building had a small section of parapet roof designed to use internal gutters and a membrane roof system. We do have excellent, commercial-level installers, but everyone from the framers to the roof installers to our GC warned that it would require significantly more maintenance and involve significantly more water intrusion risk compared to a sloped roof. After consultation with our architect, they all agreed that it made more sense to switch to a more traditional sloped (albeit very low sloped roof), as they could do it to preserve the look but eliminate the risk.

How are you going to vent the dryer? Through the flat membrane roof? You will also need one or more plumbing stack vents. Every penetration of the flat roof increases chances of leaks.

Ergonomics? You need a full bath on the main floor.

I've done the broken ankle thing, and can tell you I'm so glad I've always had one.

And yes, for discussion here, you do need to show the windows? Why are you hiding them?

How many of you cook at a time? If you have kids, will you be teaching them?

So...you believe you can build an International Style house in the Dallas area for $120-$130/SF?

Why don't you show us a site plan, with a complete house and garage, and all site improvements, placed on your site?

Stop playing two-dimensional paper design and start dealing with the real world of architecture...?

catlady999

How are you going to vent the dryer? Through the flat membrane roof? You will also need one or more plumbing stack vents. Every penetration of the flat roof increases chances of leaks.

Dryer and plumbing vents will go through the roof. There are a lot of flat roofed buildings in this area so Im not worried about the contractors doing it correctly

artemis_ma

Ergonomics? You need a full bath on the main floor.

I've done the broken ankle thing, and can tell you I'm so glad I've always had one.

And yes, for discussion here, you do need to show the windows? Why are you hiding them?

How many of you cook at a time? If you have kids, will you be teaching them?

thanks for your input. I dont need a full bath on the first floor for how i live.

Im not hiding windows. I just prefer to leave them out as houzzers are easily distracted.

I cook and teach the kids. we learn in our currently cramped kitchen with 40" walkspace and we have fun.

Virgil Carter Fine Art

Stop playing two-dimensional paper design and start dealing with the real world of architecture...?

the real world of architecture as in east and west facing roof monitors? you are too much Virgil Carter FAIA

what does this even mean?

It means your mind is made up, and you're not interested in facts.

pray, tell, what is the average cost?

You know that varies widely from location to location.

This kitchen is attractive, but I'd guess this kitchen is 5-6' wide.

In contrast, your sketch appears wide enough for one single appliance at the end of the run (flanked by two lazy susans?).

Neither kitchen has good "traffic flow".

I cook and I love galley kitchens and hate just about everything else.

I like a "straight run + island" galley kitchen ... but I like other things too. Regardless, if you're talking about efficiency and budget-building, it's hard to beat a galley kitchen; they avoid the more expensive/less efficient corner cabinets.

A note on flat roofs.

My school has a flat roof. What a pain it is. We have more leaks than a sieve ... always in the same places, yet they can't seem to fix the problems.

Im not hiding windows. I just prefer to leave them out as houzzers are easily distracted.

Maybe because windows are an integral part of the design, not an after-thought.

Ergonomics? You need a full bath on the main floor.

I've done the broken ankle thing, and can tell you I'm so glad I've always had one.

And yes, for discussion here, you do need to show the windows? Why are you hiding them?

How many of you cook at a time? If you have kids, will you be teaching them?

thanks for your input. I dont need a full bath on the first floor for how i live.

Im not hiding windows. I just prefer to leave them out as houzzers are easily distracted.

I cook and teach the kids. we learn in our currently cramped kitchen with 40" walkspace and we have fun.

You said you were asking about ergonomics, that's why I brought up my ankle/access issue. You can't know now how you will live in an emergency. Or those with you want to live. You can't have it both ways if you ask about ergonomics.

Windows are important, and not "merely" a distraction.

I am glad the kitchen works for you with teaching them. I admit I have no kids myself, but having worked with Mom and Dad - both cooked - in their kitchen, it was nicest when there was good floorspace to move around each other. If you do go with 48" space, I do think that's workable.

I am not going to discuss the exterior design, everyone has their own preferences, and I'm sure most people on GW (I do not consider myself a "Houzzer") would not build a log home in any situation. Which is what I did. The only reason I think discussing windows is important is for the ergonomic layout of rooms that you mentioned you want to know about. Avoiding that... yep, "hiding". For one, you have to figure out how you'll lay out your furniture, and windows will determine a lot of that.

Just_Janni's point is worth emphasizing:

I think that folks want to help / provide feedback - but sometimes the way you engage is troll-y - by doing things like withholding pertinent information.

Mrs Pete

pray, tell, what is the average cost?

"You know that varies widely from location to location"

yet you knew that the numbers I posted were not feasible?

"In contrast, your sketch appears wide enough for one single appliance at the end of the run (flanked by two lazy susans?).

Neither kitchen has good "traffic flow".

I'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The kitchen I posted had 48" of clearance, which is plenty for movement.

The picture I posted has GREAT, not good traffic flow.

"You said you were asking about ergonomics, that's why I brought up my ankle/access issue. You can't know now how you will live in an emergency. Or those with you want to live. You can't have it both ways if you ask about ergonomics.

Windows are important, and not "merely" a distraction.

I am glad the kitchen works for you with teaching them. I admit I have no kids myself, but having worked with Mom and Dad - both cooked - in their kitchen, it was nicest when there was good floorspace to move around each other. If you do go with 48" space, I do think that's workable."

I understand but its impossible to plan for everything that MAY happen.

I still say windows would distract most houzzers and there would be another 100 posts about them and why they are too large or too small or too high or short.

yeah, I dont know where folks got claustrophobic from the kitchen as posted. its plenty spacious. I guess some cant see in 3d

Here's an example of a "troll-y" comment:

yeah, I dont know where folks got claustrophobic from the kitchen as posted. its plenty spacious. I guess some cant see in 3d

You asked for specific feedback about your design. You received feedback from several members that the layout of your kitchen was problematic. Then you rejected that feedback because you concluded that those who responded were deficient.

BUT if you posted windows, you could winnow through the posts and get some good ideas. We won't all have the best ideas, but many of us WILL. (If you aren't interested in ideas, why are you here to begin with???? An approving echo??? )

No, impossible entirely for planning for the May Be's, but having had unexpected and unplanned TWO severe leg emergencies in less than three years (that ankle and then a tumor... having something on board for a real plan might be a good idea? No? AND there will be multiple of you, right? Active, perhaps? It is not unrealistic to do and provide for something so simple.

I do think your kitchen is workable. My last one was hideous. I survived there 23 years. But, since you are building from scratch, is it truly optimal? Mine wasn't. Check out as many potentials as you can, before you set yourself in stone. You don't know yet.

indigoheaven

Here's an example of a "troll-y" comment:

yeah, I dont know where folks got claustrophobic from the kitchen as posted. its plenty spacious. I guess some cant see in 3d

"You asked for specific feedback about your design. You received feedback from several members that the layout of your kitchen was problematic. Then you rejected that feedback because you concluded that those who responded were deficient."

Inidgo, NOT everyone on the internet is right. I cant change everything in my plan because someone cant visualize a space in 3d. for example someone called the kitchen DARK. lol.

but I reserve the right to disagree with feedback.

Just like I reserve the right to make adjustments based on sound feedback, Example, the feedback Janni posted about the master bathroom. That was sound feedback and changes have been made.

artemis_ma

"BUT if you posted windows, you could winnow through the posts and get some good ideas. We won't all have the best ideas, but many of us WILL. (If you aren't interested in ideas, why are you here to begin with???? An approving echo??? )"

Very true. but I dont need feedback on the windows, so no need to post them

"BUT if you posted windows, you could winnow through the posts and get some good ideas. We won't all have the best ideas, but many of us WILL. (If you aren't interested in ideas, why are you here to begin with???? An approving echo??? )"

Very true. but I dont need feedback on the windows, so no need to post them

Okay, and I do agree to a small extent... but when I first got here my layout was set in stone. I was here for kitchen ideas. If I'd only shown them my kitchen, I would not have gotten some other suggestions I ended up using. Yes, the log layout here could not have been changed at that point for this house - but these folks helped me improve my interior layout in a way or two I'd not expected.

Don't write suggestions off, automatically. AND SHOW THE WINDOWS.

And no, I didn't follow ALL the suggestions. But I considered them all before saying Yay or Nay.

I have a far better bathroom from just stepping back from what I considered carved in stone,... and considering. I wasn't even here for the bathroom!

The picture I posted has GREAT, not good traffic flow.

The picture you posted has objectively bad traffic flow for a kitchen, and your assertion otherwise is a great illustration of most of your interactions on this board. Instead of being smart and asking what is wrong with the traffic flow, you stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to anything.

Once enough people spend tremendous effort to beat into your brain what is wrong with that kitchen flow, you will claim from on high that you knew that anyway and were always planning to integrate the better kitchen design into your plan, all while still claiming that everyone else was wrong about everything they said.

This will culminate in your posting your next best effort which incorporates half the things you railed against in this thread, just so you can convince yourself you did it all on your own.

Inidgo, NOT everyone on the internet is right.

I agree, in fact, I think we can all agree that some people on the internet seem to be setting a record for being wrong.

How would anyone know if the kitchen will be cramped without dimensions, and how will anyone know if it will be dark without windows. You drew a sink (I assume) at the end of the kitchen run that makes the aisle look about 3' wide. Your wasting more time on posts about why you don't show the windows than you would on posts like "have you considered adding windows to flank the stove?" You know.. the kind of post you might consider valuable if you were actually looking for feedback.

bry911

The picture I posted has GREAT, not good traffic flow.

"The picture you posted has objectively bad traffic flow for a kitchen, and your assertion otherwise is a great illustration of most of your interactions on this board. "

objectively bad, lol. I know you know the difference between subjective and objective. Your SUBJECTIVE opinion is wrong. period end of story

jslazart

"How would anyone know if the kitchen will be cramped without dimensions, and how will anyone know if it will be dark without windows."

youve got to love the internet. How did they know it would be dark and claustrophobic without dimensions or windows???

True, D E, and this is why you need to show the WINDOWS if you haven't provided them here???? Right?

Time to upfront them?

Artemis, to go back to the bathroom. if you read some of my other posts you'll find that when I put a full bathroom on the bottom floor, some complain about the wastefulness of it. such is life on the internet.

• D E but for practical reasons, I'd put that back.

Artemis, to go back to the bathroom. if you read some of my other posts you'll find that when I put a full bathroom on the bottom floor, some complain about the wastefulness of it. such is life on the internet.

A "Full Bath" can indeed be what some people call a 3/4th bath. Use a shower rather than a tub.

You asked for feedback. People gave you the best they could based on the limited information you provided, and then you deride them for giving feedback without adequate information.

The fact that anyone is still trying to help you gives me hope that most people really are inherently good and tolerant of one another. Maybe there is hope for humanity yet.

https://www.lifeofanarchitect.com/dont-let-the-internet-design-your-project/

gotta love houzzers who can't tell if a kitchen is good because there are no dimensions posted but they sure can tell it's terrible even without those same dimensions.

now I know why architects don't post their work- people are smart, the internet collective is anything but

D E

Please do less "telling" and more "showing." Rather than "tell" us how great your design is, "show" us.

Then why are you here? Do you just enjoy asking for help and then deriding the people who give it?

Then, as you've been advised before, stop trolling, go ahead and build your "good" house, and live happily ever after.

Then why are you here? Do you just enjoy asking for help and then deriding the people who give it?

Yes, clearly.

Do you want your first view walking into your master to be of the closet? Also, seems there is empty unused space in the master bath....is that where storage will go?

What are the rooms with the two chairs facing each other? It seems there is one room that can not be accessed..what is that space?

Debbie has demonstrated in post after post that her only interest is in posting what she, herself, has created, thereafter waiting for congratulatory comments on her knowledge of and skill with residential architecture.

Unfortunately, her knowledge and skill are virtually non-existant, limited to reading a few books, a blog or two and visiting some open houses in her home town Dallas.

As demonstrated above, it does no good to try and be a constructive commentator on her postings.

Virgil Carter, still waiting for you to post a plan you've created that was built. just one.

J D

"What are the rooms with the two chairs facing each other? It seems there is one room that can not be accessed..what is that space? "

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/working-with-an-architect-dsvw-vd~5656058[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/working-with-an-architect-dsvw-vd~5656058)

jd, use the image I posted here. Its a litte bit clearer about that area.

I dont mind walking past the closet to get into the master. matter of fact, I prefer it as it provides a little more privacy.

we have storage upstairs in the laundry room, next to the kids bathroom, in the play room, and will have some in the master bath.

Interesting thread...

I think a lot of us who are not pros can comment on what our experience is with similar "issues" as you show. I think that's great. Most of the time you can't tell if something was a bad decision until you've lived with it for a while. You have the benefit, here, of lots of people who are NOT here just to annoy you.

Besides the already excellent advice from experience that others have given you, (In addition to the valuable free advice from Pros) I will say that I don't think you'll get your furniture into those 2 bedrooms unless your hallways are wide.

Also, even though there are no dimensions given...your dining area seems out of proportion to the living area...Is it possible to consider an "L" shaped kitchen? Also not ideal, but you can move the table down a bit (if you continue your lower cabinets into the dining area for extra storage, like a built in buffet). Then your living area will be larger. I did see this done here once and it really opened up the space...of course you want your cabinets to look decent so that it doesn't seem as if you're sitting in the kitchen. Just a thought...

That entryway is claustrophobic. Why are you even here, D E? To insult architects again or just to pat yourself on the back?

yet you knew that the numbers I posted were not feasible?

I live in one of the cheapest area of the country, and these numbers would be a stretch here ... they'd be a more difficult stretch pretty much anywhere else, particularly with the modern details you're planning.

I'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The kitchen I posted had 48" of clearance, which is plenty for movement. The picture I posted has GREAT, not good traffic flow.

Here's your kitchen. You're focusing on a single item -- the width of the aisle, but that's only one item in a room full of details. The real problem is the traffic pattern /circulation -- you have only one entrance /one pathway -- here are a couple examples of how that can become problematic:

- You've just come home with groceries and are putting them away. You're working at the end of the island /at the pantry /at the refrigerator. For the 15 minutes or so that you've cut off circulation between the kitchen and the rest of the house ... and if your family's like mine, they come running when new groceries are brought in. They want to see what kind of cookies I bought, and they want to help put them away.

- You open the oven door, and you cut off circulation to the sink. So a child who wants to put a dirty dish into the sink cannot reach it ... the glass is left on the peninsula, and you wonder why no one will ever put things away in this house!

- Your sink is the single most-used item in the whole kitchen ... and you've placed it at the far end, meaning you have to walk the length of the kitchen to reach it. Furthermore, you've placed it in the most narrow spot, assuring that only one person can use it at a time. Finally, you've arranged things so that you must place the dishwasher "around the corner" from the sink.

- Glassware should be stored in a cabinet next to the refrigerator ... it just makes life easy. However, since your dishwasher is on the far end of the kitchen, you'll end up making multiple-multiple-multiple trips between the dishwasher and the refrigerator (or you'll be storing your glasses in an inconvenient spot).

- You need your garbage can to be near the sink/dishwasher, but since it's placed on the far end of the too-narrow U, you have to carry the garbage farther than is necessary to take it out each day.

Consider how you could keep the general concept of your kitchen ... but improve the traffic pattern /circulation -- how about a classic L+island ...

- I personally like the range on the short-y arm, but it could be placed on the cabinet run with the refrigerator ... or the sink could be placed in that position, leaving the island an open work space.

- Now while you're unloading groceries or accessing the refrigerator, people still have access to the stove area or can "walk around" to the sink from the other side.

- Note that I added a small cabinet between the wall and the refrigerator. Why? Because a refrigerator up against the wall won't open all the way, making it difficult to remove shelves /clean. This small cabinet could be a tall-pantry cabinet for housing small appliances, or it could be an out-of-the-way spot for a coffee pot, a cake, or a bowl of fruit.

Alternately, you could go with a simple galley kitchen with an island forming one side of the galley. It works for all the same reasons as the L+island. The traffic pattern /circulation is better than the too-narrow U, and you have a really big island.

Last thought on kitchen: You say you're presenting us with a floor plan for the kitchen on the left, but the illustration will come out looking more like one of the others ... quite narrow. In spite of its width, it's a one-butt kitchen; it's about proportion.
Gotta love houzzers who can't tell if a kitchen is good because there are no dimensions posted but they sure can tell it's terrible even without those dimensions.
Dimensions are ONE MEASURE of whether a space works. Even without dimensions, it's easy to tell whether the appliances are arranged in a logical fashion and whether the traffic pattern /circulation works. Even without dimensions, it's easy to see whether the kitchen and dining room have a good connection to one another and whether you'll be able to see the kids in the living room while you're cooking.

I dont mind walking past the closet to get into the master. matter of fact, I prefer it as it provides a little more privacy.

I actually agree with this detail. If well positioned, the closet can provide acoustical privacy. The real problem here is the master bath ... entering it requires that you walk the length of the whole room to reach the door ... and then the layout makes no sense: blank space dead ahead of the door, water elements on two walls, when it would make sense to consolidate ALL the plumbing into one space:

This version, though not significantly different from your original, provides several positives:

- You can place the bathroom door several steps closer to the bedroom door. (Note: This wall can't be used for furniture anyway because it's the main walkway.)

- Opening a door between the bathroom and the laundry allows for easy drop-off of dirty clothes /taking your jeans directly from the dryer. Again, this is improved traffic pattern /circulation.

- This layout is so much more spacious!

- You now have a shelf for towels at the end of the tub.

- You have storage AT the toilet ... toilet paper and a plunger, if nothing else. If you grow old in this house, you may find that you have some at-the-toilet storage needs; my grandparents both did.

- You have one nice long vanity, which you could configure in any number of ways ... could include a linen tower.

- ALL these items, including the washer /dryer and sink fall onto ONE SINGLE WALL, meaning you only need to have water running through one wall. You keep saying you want efficient and inexpensive ... this is it.

- We aren't talking about windows, but you can have a nice short/wide window above the tub, which will allow in light without sacrificing privacy.

we have storage upstairs in the laundry room, next to the kids bathroom,
in the play room, and will have some in the master bath.

I've read that 10% of the house should be storage. I don't see that much in your house. Things to consider:

- I don't think you're harnessing the large space under that switchback stair. Yeah, it's only half-height space, but you're paying for it. Don't box it in.

- I think you have a linen closet outside the kids' upstairs bathroom ... but it isn't 'specially large. Consider kids' sleeping bags, extra pillows for guests, extra toiletries ... this space'll fill up fast.

- Do you have space for hobby storage? toys? seldom used cooking items? seasonal items? gift wrap? Go through your house and make a list of the things that now have "no good home". Where are they going to go in this house?

- Not really storage, but one of the things about which I'm most excited in my new house is a Cleaning Closet. It's going to be smack-dab in the middle of the house (for convenience). No more squishing the vacuum cleaner to the side of the coats, a place to stack cleaning items, a place to store bulk-purchased paper products. I can't wait to have this specialty closet!

That's it ... I'm out of it.