How do we make it better

tony jelly

It has become so partisan over here I wonder if it was always like this or was it ever great, and if it was great how do we make HT great again?

I ask this in all seriousness because with each passing day it gets worse, opposing sides looking for a gotcha in self perpetuating nastiness. I am not looking for blame or name calling but what kind of subject could we talk about sensibly?

Frustration bubbles over often and I have problems with that myself and I exchange a few LOL's or become too critical/cynical but it never solves anything.

Frustration bubbles over often and I have problems with that myself and I exchange a few LOL's or become too critical/cynical but it never solves anything. but we waste the opportunity and that is frustrating.

What can we talk about that would help me get my head around the state of our nation?

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tony jelly

Have a look at the thread "The Good Fight" to see what I am talking about if you don't already know.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

It's hard to answer this without resorting to cliches so here goes!

Be the change you want to see.

Forgive others and forgive yourself.

Don't be afraid to admit that you're wrong.

Be kind.


And my personal goal with every comment I read:

Don't read "tone" in. Try to read every comment neutrally.

(Yes, I fail abysmally a lot of the time.)

Check out the thread about Notre Dame for evidence that some subjects transcend partisanship.

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llucy

I didn't start reading this forum until after the 2016 election. I have the impression...correct or incorrect...that many of the same posters have been exchanging partisan barbs for a decade.

It's obvious on this site there are people who don't want to discuss issues, they just want to meme and deliver one line snarks to disrupt discussion. I end up scrolling by more comments than I read. And try to avoid blatant "bait" threads.

These people enjoy what they do and I don't believe they will be able to stop until Trump is out of office. If even then.

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tony jelly

LLucy my idea was to see how we could make it better rather than rake over the coals one more time.

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llucy

LLucy my idea was to see how we could make it better rather than rake over the coals one more time.

Don't start any threads about Trump or Dem candidates? Keep topics to burning landmarks & old music? Luck.

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tony jelly

Cynicism lives.

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llucy

Why don't you tell us your ideas Tony?

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

tony, you can message me anytime for a dose of good old fashioned optimism! I have it on good authority that I am Pollyanna-ish :-)

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roxsol

Remember that your country is not defined by any one single President. (Obama or Trump or whoever) Everyone had their own reason for who they voted for, each valid. Listen to each other. Don’t see everything as an “us” against “them” situation.

I’m sure you all want what is best for Americans and the USA. Be civil to one another. Learn to turn the other cheek to those who are uncivil. Tit for tat gets you nowhere.

I’m hoping you all get your act together. Best of luck to you all.


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tony jelly

The problem I have is that over here a political discussion amounts to a statement "I am right you are wrong," and I would prefer a question, "Am I right, in thinking this?" Then someone looks at what I am saying and engages with it. like cait does, as annoying as that is. I am not going to change her mind and she has no illusion about changing my mind but it helps us both to know our own mind.

What we have at our disposal here by the grace of Houzz, is a free and open way to communicate with one another as intelligent educated people, it is a shame to waste such a unique opportunity.


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roxsol

tony, I would say no. It is what it is and always will be.

It is beyond your control. Let it go.


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margaux

Why? Tony doesn't find discussion fulfilling. So few Trump supporters shouldn't be causing him such consternation. He can pick who he wants to engage with and ignore the others. It's excellent advice.

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tony jelly

So. there ya go HT.

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Stan Areted

It has become so partisan over here I wonder if it was always like this or was it ever great, and if it was great how do we make HT great again?

I find this question disingenuous considering it has been asked before and I mentioned not posting a meme of a person spraying bug killer after more conservative viewpoints have been shared would be helpful.

The roach killer/bug spray after those posts has been continued by "tony jelly."

Excuse me back to programming.

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cattyles

I think there needs to be a common goal for both sides to work to make it better. That is not the case. I’m sorry that this is not the type of response you were looking for but it is my honest answer. These are not normal times.

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Stan Areted

By the way, "it" is a lot better than it was.

Cleaning house helped.

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margaux

There really is no point in setting a good example or "being the change you want to see". There are many people who set a good example here with every post--most of us, actually--and it does nothing to change someone else's behavior. Focus on the posts that you're getting something out of and treat the purposeful annoyances like a commercial interruption. Mute, change the channel, take a break.

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roxsol

Focus on the posts that you're getting something out of and treat the purposeful annoyances like a commercial interruption. Mute, change the channel, take a break.

Tru dat.

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margaux

A grammar correction is a personal attack disguised as being "helpful". It should be treated as such.

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cattyles

I think it would be better if each thread had a Bingo card. Or options for taking a shot.

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margaux

If a "character flaw" violates the rules, the poster should change their behavior.

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tony jelly

Thanks, TR I will use you as my guide. You see how slippery this slope is?

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kaych

I don't think elvis is a nitpicker at all! In fact, I believe she adds value & perspective to many issues here. If we're not here to learn & share, then those that wish to personally attack, or only take out their frustrations on others about a President they don't like, then one has the choice to either engage by hopefully countering their view or else SOB.

There are as many different ways to communicate as there are people here & aside from obeying the rules, none should be touted as better than another.

My suggestion is, if you don't want what you post to be questioned or your view attacked, then don't post with an expectation of a chorus of bobbing heads. My biggest beef with HT's is censorship & the lack of tolerance for opposing views.

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catticusmockingbird

Focus on the posts that you're getting something out of and treat the purposeful annoyances like a commercial interruption. Mute, change the channel, take a break.


Only way to navigate this place in its current configuration.

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kaych


A grammar correction is a personal attack disguised as being "helpful".


I disagree. Maybe if you looked at it as being helpful, you wouldn't feel personally attacked. If you didn't care if you made grammar & spelling mistakes, then you wouldn't care if you were corrected. If you did care, then I would think you'd want to be corrected.

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Kathy

Typos are common. Who corrected elvis when she misspelled whiney? It’s not even important in the grand scheme. It is a distraction and a power move. Petty imho.

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margaux

If you didn't care if you made grammar & spelling mistakes, then you wouldn't care if you were corrected. If you did care, then I would think you'd want to be corrected.

She's been asked to stop, so no, people don't want to be corrected. She knows that and does it anyway.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)

I have it on good authority that I am Pollyanna-ish :-)

-----------------

You are my twin.


---------------------

Tony I do not know what will help you enjoy HT. I have been around so many yrs. I guess I am use to the flow.


Thick skin helps. It is no different than discussing gardens any other topic online.


Someone loves a weeds somebody else think you are crazy for wanting to grow a weed. Will correct you and call you a weed grower and you are stupid for tying to grow a weed.

Thick Skin........In your mind laugh and move on someone else will come along that also love to grow weeds and will be happy to discuss the weeds.


Somebody correct your spelling.

Thick Skin- Move on and someone will address the issue you discussed. Spell checker is not able to discuss the topic. It is the peter principle.


Finally you know who you can have a good debate with, the others SOB. Why waste your time when you know the outcome? Heck any where you go everybody you see is not someone you want to talk too.

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cattyles

We civilly discussed meal kits that time.

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margievank

She's been asked to stop, so no, people don't want to be corrected. She knows that and does it anyway.

We have been asked to stop talking about forum members for how long now, so no, people don't want to listen and do it anyway.

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Kathy

What about——-

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AITG

I love you guys.

All of ya.

Yeah ya drive me nuts sometimes but I can't imagine the place without ya,whoever you are.

Thank you. :)

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cait1

@ tony

Then someone looks at what I am saying and engages with it. like cait does, as annoying as that is...

ROFL

I know you secretly LOVE when I comment and that you really do like me! : )

I'm going to offer different kinds of suggestions since I've been on HT since almost the beginning.

In the beginning this place was a bit more equalized and neutral. Topics were quite varied and didn't become political. Eventually, a majority formed and that majority, was and still is, held by the left. Many from the right dropped out, me included. I would read through the topics every few weeks or so, but rarely engaged. Why bother? The left is exceptional at being Borg, one mind - one action.

After I re-engaged, there was a different tenor to the forum. 'Outsiders', the right, were really made to feel unwelcome. I had the feeling that leftists, or as I like to say, the majority, felt it was 'their' board and the minority would feel the pain of daring to enter their echo chamber.

Still, we few minority posters (and I can still name them), along with those who I considered in-betweeners (tobr comes to mind), held our ground.

What was very obvious to me, though, was while the majority spoke as one voice, the minority never linked together. We didn't address each other like majority member did. We didn't support each other's comments like the majority members did. Because we were so few and so... I'm not sure how to phrase it... protective of our individual voice and perspective? we didn't support each other the way the majority did. I always wondered about that, how we could not support each other's views especially when they aligned. But we didn't.

So that was the Bush years.

Now we come to BO's reign. The HT majority had a complete political majority to back up their agenda. For 8 loooong years the majority crowed. It's then that the raaacist name-calling garbage began. In the majority's mind the only reason ya wouldn't bow to BO was because ya were raaaacist. And raaaacists were to be hated, demeaned, scorned, belittled, cut down to size. The majority honed their skills and their passive-aggressive behavior was the stuff of legends. At least I marveled at that skill; I am, admittedly, too blunt. Still, the minority, for the most part, remained unsupportive of each other.

But 'power' always shifts and in 2016 it did, to the absolute horror of the majority. New blood entered HT and they were not aligned with the majority. The minority was suddenly singing like a choir, different tones, but the same song. The majority couldn't rule the HT roost anymore and that unruffled many feathers LOL

One of the highlights of my life will always be Nov 8, 2016... not just because Trump won, but because Hillary LOST. It's Hillary's loss that the majority cannot forgive, that drives them to insanity. They are blind to that, unfortunately, and take out their anger by hating on the person who stopped her and all his supporters. I don't mean 'hating on' to mean anyone hates Trumps supporters, but they feel it gives them license to mock and deride at will. The difference is that we, the minority, gain strength from that. The more the majority goes after us the stronger we become. And we no longer tolerate being berated; we fight back in kind.

That is what you may be missing, the power the majority held over the minority during the BO years. What HT is experiencing is a power struggle - the majority still wants to believe its in charge. In reality they were never in charge, we, the minority, just didn't engage together. Now we do. And HT is the better for it. Echo chambers can be quite boring at times. People, in general, like a challenge.

So embrace the challenge. Enjoy it. I most certainly do.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

Ahhhh AITG you are sweet.

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margaux

People don't stop talking about forum members but they also don't have a buddy declaring that they're doing you a favor by talking about you.

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AITG

Aww shucks, Marquest.

You make me blush. ;)

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Ziemia(6a)

The only way it will change is to have active moderation.

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catkinZ8a


I love you guys.

All of ya.



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Ziemia(6a)

Maybe when some stop complaining about the activity here from citizens of other countries.

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margievank

People don't stop talking about forum members but they also don't have a buddy declaring that they're doing you a favor by talking about you.


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Annie Deighnaugh

cait, I've said this many times to mrskjun and I'll say it to you.

It's Hillary's loss that the majority cannot forgive, that drives them to insanity.

That statement is wrong. Simply wrong. It has nothing to do with hillary losing and everything to do with trump winning...who he is, what he stands for, the things he's done, the things he's not done, the damage and disgrace and corruption he's brought to the office, the level of incompetence, and the serious national security risks his very presence in the oval office represents. Had *any* other republican won instead of trump, you'd not see anywhere near this reaction as you have seen from the left.

You don't have to rely on 2nd and 3rd hand fake news on this. You have direct contact with people here who can tell you honestly what it's all about. So take advantage of that and believe us. We have no reason to lie.


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AITG

Windwood, Catkin?

Well ……



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margievank

That statement is wrong. Simply wrong. It has nothing to do with hillary losing and everything to do with trump winning...who he is, what he stands for, the things he's done, the things he's not done, the damage and disgrace and corruption he's brought to the office, the level of incompetence, and the serious national security risks his very presence in the oval office represents. Had *any* other republican won instead of trump, you'd not see anywhere near this reaction as you have seen from the left.

Annie- that is such BS. The left has condemned him right out of the gate. He never was given a fair chance with a peaceful transfer of power. Just nonsense.

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catkinZ8a

:love:

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catkinZ8a

They never thought she'd lose.

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Kathy

Trump loved the Russians before he was elected. You elected him anyways. Therefore lies the problem out of the gate. We all lost, not just Hillary.

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Ziemia(6a)

Again, the TrumpFans here think they can read the minds of his opposition here.

Please don't tell Annie or anyone else that says different from what you want to hear that their comment sharing their thoughts is BS.

PS: I and many others (not all) gave him a fair start. I kept an open mind. And those who couldn't were far from a majority.

Do you recall Trump saying he might not accept the results if he lost?

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Well at the risk of talking about a forum member, I too would like to single out cait. I've had some conversations with you that I really enjoy and that challenged my POV in a healthy way.

There have been others too of course but since cait was mentioned and s/he is here I just thought I'd add my 2¢!

I haven't been on HT very long so I don't have any experience with its evolution but I have to say, it's still one of the most thoughtful and insightful and at times respectful forums I've participated in. Steer clear of the CBC comment boards lolol.

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Joaniepoanie

Stan

By the way, "it" is a lot better than it was.

Cleaning house helped

----------

From where I sit only one floor was cleaned. The cleaners clearly did not want to clean both floors. So, no, it is not better.

---------

Here are some changes I would like to see:

1. No making sweeping generalizations.....Dems are haters, Trump supporters are stupid.....not helpful and only serves to make what else you post less credible.

2. No tit for tat. Stop searching the Internet for offenses against your side and painting the picture that ALL people on that side are guilty of said behavior. There are extremists on both sides...they are not the norm nor the majority.

3. Stop repeating over and over what you think the other side stands for, especially when they've told you your information is incorrect.

4. Stop correcting grammar mistakes. It just comes across as smug and is not germane to any discussion.....unless the discussion is about grammar.


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margievank

But 'power' always shifts and in 2016 it did, to the absolute horror of the majority. New blood entered HT and they were not aligned with the majority.

I be part of the new blood in the hood;)

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catkinZ8a

There are already rules and mods here, no new standard is necessary.

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roxsol

Steer clear of the CBC comment boards lolol.

Scares the bejeepers out of me, for sure.


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margievank

Please don't tell Annie or anyone else that says different from what you want to hear that their comment sharing their thoughts is BS.

How is it any different from Annie telling cait this:

That statement is wrong. Simply wrong.

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Ziemia(6a)

Wrong is way different from BS. And you know it is since you didn't spell it out.

PS: "That statement is wrong."

Vs "that is such BS."

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margievank

LOL

BS= Bad Summation ;)

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Ziemia(6a)

Then, use that, maybe?

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margievank

You just can never make some people happy. *sigh*

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Joaniepoanie

Margie

Annie- that is such BS. The left has condemned him right out of the gate. He never was given a fair chance with a peaceful transfer of power. Just nonsense.

-------

Simply not true. Many of my friends and family were not happy when Trump won, but we hoped he would do a 180 away from the campaign rhetoric and buffoonery. We hoped he would buckle down and educate himself about history and the issues. We hoped he would surround himself with experts and listen to them. We hoped, when it was made public, he would take steps to assure that Russia would never interfere in another election. We hoped he would relinquish his business ties and put the country ahead of his pocket book. We hoped for a lot of things, but not one came to pass. Trump was given a golden opportunity of a lifetime and he has blown it at every turn.....bigly.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

New blood always come and go, As was said there is always more Liberals. Wonders never change there are more Liberals without posting under two names We have always had new blood that came on that could not debate they only disrupted......that was the Repub yrs.

They do not last and run like scared kids when the Democrat President is elected, It happens every time. It will not change. Nothing new there will never be a majority Repub. Has not happened in 20 yrs it is not going to happen now.

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Annie Deighnaugh

margie, what I posted is not BS. Please don't dis what I'm telling you just because it doesn't fit with the oft-repeated lies you've heard that you are so comfortable with. It is the truth for me and for 750,000 others who marched in DC with me in Jan 2017 and the other millions who responded across the nation and around the world. You would never have seen such a response for any other gop person winning the presidency. Yes we would've hated seeing rubio or cruz or perry as president...maybe kasich not so much....but none of them would have triggered such a response. It's *all* about trump.

But trumplicans are so unwilling to hold trump responsible for *anything*, that they have to blame even the strong reaction to him as all on hillary. It can't be him or anything he's ever said or done. Nope. He's perfect. He's untouchable. He's never responsible. It's always someone else's fault. Never his.

It is truly pathological among trumplicans. It really is a cult. It is really frightening.

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cattyles

And sometimes we give people too much credit by thinking they want to make it better, too. Some people want to make it worse and enjoy disrupting something that others enjoy.

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margievank

Joaniepoanie- you all had false hope. You wanted Trump to change to what you wanted. You didn't vote for him. We did. What came down that escalator is what was voted in. Such a disingenuous " we hoped" ....

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Annie Deighnaugh

Margie, moreover, your subsequent comment doesn't make sense...of course a lot of democrats were against him since before the election...a lot of republicans were against him before he won the party nod. So what? That has nothing to do with whether strong reaction to trump was because he won or hillary lost.

Rather, that's one thing the dems and trumplicans have in common...for both parties, it's *all* about trump.

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cattyles

So which is it, we had false hope when we gave him a chance or we never gave him a chance?


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Ziemia(6a)

So, you admit he never wanted to be the president of all Americans.

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margievank

Annie- speaking of frightening, How do you think Trump got voted in? After 8 loooong years of Obama and then the thought of Hillary picking up where he left off scared the bejezzus out of us. Trump woke up a lot of people. He tapped into America First. Many saw America slipping away.

We just live in two different worlds when it comes to politics.

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Kathy

I have lived through a lot of Presidents in my lifetime that didn’t do what I wanted. I have never been worried they were working to dismantle American Democracy.

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Annie Deighnaugh

You see, margie, that's the difference.

What came down that escalator is what was voted in.

I don't understand how anyone could support trump, but you and others here have explained your sentiments about it. I may not agree, but I believe you when you say this is why. I will disagree with those sentiments wholeheartedly, but I don't call it BS as I believe it is what you believe. It's not *my* place to tell you what you believe.

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margievank

So, you admit he never wanted to be the president of all Americans.

Another Bad Summation.


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Annie Deighnaugh

How do you think Trump got voted in?

I think trump got voted in with the aid of a huge russian military intelligence run propaganda effort through social media to see trump won so that he'd then lift sanctions on them; with the help of stolen documents which were released at specific times to inflict maximum damage on the clinton campaign and which included the democratic strategic playbook which helped them realign their own campaign for more effectiveness; with the help of comey bringing up hillary's emails again for no good reason just a few days before the election, while keeping the fact that the trump campaign was under investigation for collusion with the russians under wraps; with illegal campaign financing activity including paying hush money to his strumpets and with the help of his friend david p*cker to catch and kill unflattering stories about him; with other russian funding through the nra to scare voters with lies about hillary's policy toward the 2nd amendment; with the help of democratic voter suppression efforts in a number of critical swing states; and with the help of the electoral college which put him in office despite losing the popular vote by over 3 million.

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margievank


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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

My own opinion of the Russian election meddling is that they were throwing anything and everything at the wall to a) see what would stick and b) suss out what the international community will allow them to get away with.

The answer to both is a lot, apparently.

I don't think it was specifically about getting Trump elected. That's just my sense take it for what it's worth!

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kaych

Do you recall Trump saying he might not accept the results if he lost?

He didn't say he would or would not accept, he said he'd keep us in suspense. Hillary on the other hand thought it was "horrifying" to make excuses & not accept the results.

Here is a reminder how funny it all is now & who really lied & ended up making every excuse known to man. LOL!




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cait1

@ Miss Lindsey

I enjoy our conversation, too!

Oh, and to get around 'talking about forum members', you can always address them directly. : )

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Louise McCarthy

Don't want to start another thread. Whatever happened to the Stan thread?

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cait1

@ Annie

That statement is wrong. Simply wrong. It has nothing to do with
hillary losing and everything to do with trump winning
...

You can't have one without the other. People actually cried when HC lost. CRIED! It was the most ridiculous display of emotions I have ever seen. From my perspective, the losers' emotions are bound so tightly together it's impossible for them to separate.

Sad HC lost - Sad Trump won

Angry HC lost - Angry Trump won

HC supporters were and are still dealing with very negative emotions. It eats away at them every day. They organized rallies where women demeaned themselves by dressing up in pupendum. They create TV shows with images to embed within their minds that would make them feel good: A$$a$$in... President... Trump.

Can you imagine the abuse the right would have faced if they had tried any of that nonsense after either of BO's wins? Of course, the right didn't go to such lengths. We accepted our losses with grace.

who he is, what
he stands for, the things he's done

All that can be said of HC. She is vile. She stands only for gain for herself.

the things he's not done

HC never did and never will win the presidency.

the
damage and disgrace and corruption he's brought to the office
, the level
of incompetence, and the serious national security risks

HC drags around a 'kill list' longer than Marley's chains.

HC used the Clinton Foundation as a play-to-play scheme. NB how the foundation lost a lot of incoming money once she lost. OH, and CF also paid for Chelsea's 'wedding and life for a decade.'

She'll always be associated with Benghazi and destroying Libya where the slave trade is now resurrected.

Haiti.

Child trafficking.

Selling State secrets to the Chinese.

Emailgate.
Had *any* other republican won
instead of trump, you'd not see anywhere near this reaction as you have
seen from the left
.

I don't believe that. The left was betting on the 16 year plan to 'fundamental transform America.' HC was needed to complete that plan.

I understand, you're loss is even greater than just HC. BO lost, too. Double whammy.

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AITG

Would we agree that people who are intolerant are hard to tolerate?

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bleusblue2

I have lived through a lot of Presidents in my lifetime that didn’t do what I wanted. I have never been worried they were working to dismantle American Democracy.

~~~~

I just had to repeat it. When some say that they disliked Trump but hoped for the best they are ridiculed because THEY didn't vote for him and they lost. Yes people cried -- guarantee that Trumpites would have cried too had they lost. People put a lot of effort into getting their candidate elected. But what is all this crowing about "we won you lost, get over it"? Tony -- you want to have more reasonable respectful conversations here on HT? Look at how the President of the United States encourages us all to get together and discuss the issues respectfully. Never. And it's no secret either -- he says it openly: put those immigrants into Sanctuary Cities that didn't vote for me and see how they like it. Just now I saw a replay of Trump's recent diatribe against Hillary, the democrats, evil Mueller. On and on and on.

I have lived through a LOT of Presidents in my lifetime that didn't do what I wanted. I have never been worried that they were working to dismantle American Democracy.

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Rina

I must say I've never felt unwelcome as a foreigner here (as someone mentioned above) -- I wouldn't be surprised if some people would rather I didn't pipe up, but if so they keep quiet about it. I think Canadians have a harder time in that respect, which is odd because what happens in the US is of tremendous significance to Canada, surely?


I do think the worst characteristic of these discussions is when people assume they know what is going on in the minds of others, because that erects a massive wall (no unwanted reference intended) between you and the other person. Meaningful communication becomes impossible. It's strange because it's a habit whose senselessness and intellectual dishonesty has been pointed out many times (you do not know what I'm thinking or feeling or what my motives are unless I tell you) -- and yet it seems impossible to eradicate.


I admit I may well do it myself now and then; but if and when I do, I shouldn't.


As far as this left-winger is concerned, Hillary was never been a favourite politician of mine. I thought she would make a competent president. And I didn't detect any notable Hillary obsession here or in general reading, either -- not on the left, anyway. Just a normal level of cheering during the campaign for 'our side', with a dash of feminist enthusiasm added. But the thought of Donald Trump being the president of the United States under any circumstances whatsoever was appalling beyond belief. To this day, I don't care that Hillary lost. I care deeply that Trump won. Haven't stopped shuddering because he hasn't stopped being who he is.



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marquest(PA zone 6)

That scum will crawl back in his hole and take all the swamp critters with him. Yep he was going to drain the swamp so he could easily find friends.

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Louise McCarthy

I AM a foreigner in this country. And I feel very unwelcome these days. I have lived here for almost thirty five years and raised my seven American children. I have never regretted my decision to move here, even after my divorce. Today, I do.

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marquest(PA zone 6)

I have never regretted my decision to move here, even after my divorce. Today, I do.


-------------

You are not alone. It is like a egg hatched and it was rotten and the smell is spreading If you had asked me I would have said America is a mixed bag but I would never have imagined there were these many nuts in that mixed bag.

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Annie Deighnaugh

cait, have you been to any of the rallies? I have...more than a few. And I can tell you from personal experience that they were all about trump, his lies, his policies, his actions, his corruption and the damage he is doing to the nation.


Do you see hillary on any of those signs? I don't.

trumplicans can cling to the false belief that it's all about hillary and some grand scheme to keep some weird deep state vision going, but it's not true and believing it doesn't make it so.

It is *all* about trump and protecting the nation from an authoritarian who sows divisiveness, threatens the foundations and integrity of our government institutions, and bows down to dictators on the global stage.

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margaux

The crying, shock, and rallies were in protest of Trump, not in support of Hillary. It was not a response about loss. It was a response of fear, worry, and disgust because Trump had showed us during the campaign that he was unfit for office.

Do you believe that we overreacted to all the controversies during his campaign because we wanted Hillary to win? That we manufactured the outrage over his remarks about Mexicans, Muslims, Judge Curiel, the Khans, John McCain, and sexually assaulting women because we wanted Hillary to win? That we manufactured our alarm at the angry mobs at his rallies and his encouragement of violence because we wanted Hillary to win? That he was just joking when he claimed that the election was rigged and that there might be violence if he lost? How many hundreds of lies had he racked up by November 9, 2016? So that's what he had going into the election and that's what won.

Even if we had some hope that he'd govern for all Americans and make wise choices under advisement from those who knew how to run government, that hope was blown apart by his controversial Cabinet picks, many of whom have now left because of scandal. Chris Christie as head of his transition team advised him to tackle infrastructure first and get a bi-partisan bill under his belt. Create some goodwill after the cantankerous election. Instead, he appealed to his white nationalist base and tried to ban all Muslims from entering the US. Then he went on that thank-you tour to all the red states and continued his hateful rhetoric. It was clear that he really didn't give a damn about the rest of us.

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katrina_ellen

I don't think people would be interested if HT was an actual debate forum with strict rules. I think people like to be combative, at least online because in real life it doesn't work well.

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barncatz

I've only been on HT since the election. I didn't think how it works has varied that I've noticed. Kavanaugh was maybe a turning point. I think it's fine, but it doesn't function as a mind changer. It's a debate if you feel like debating.

Or I can read funny or insightful comments to escape from the constant gaslighting or my own cynicism. I come here to get reinvigorated by The Borg. Known, if you are a conservative only, as support and insight from people with similar political values.




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barncatz

Off Topic: please scroll by.

Catkin's phrase was thrown in my face 80 gazillion times during the Vietnam War years, including by the then Republican hero - Spiro Agnew. People who threw that phrase at us were wrong then and 55 years later, people using it haven't changed one bit in the wrongness of their current political support. Here's a meme in word form- it's from the recent past, not the last century. You know nothing, Jon Snow.

I changed one mind during those years - my dad - a D-Day veteran.

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AITG

"Would we agree that people who are intolerant are hard to tolerate?"

...and here I thought we were on the verge of a breakthrough.

Oh well.

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Tilly Teabag

AITG

“I love you guys.


All of ya.


Yeah ya drive me nuts sometimes but I can't imagine the place without ya,whoever you are.


Thank you. :) “


I read alot of chat sites, some nice, some combative. That is the best comment I’ve read on them all in a long time.



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AITG

Thank you Tilly.

Meant every word of it. :)

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Tilly Teabag

margievank

“LOL


BS= Bad Summation ;)”


Brilliant.

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Tilly Teabag

AITG, I know you did, the sincerity shone through. Hang on to it after the Mueller report is out, you will need it.

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AITG

Think so?

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Rina

Yes, "Bad Summation" is good. Gotta admit.

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Tilly Teabag

AITG, half the US will be going nuts, the other half will have all media turned off.

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AITG

Yes Tilly, love will be necessary in spades.

If things go badly for the conservative fringe tomorrow(as it evidently will), we can't turn our backs on them even if we want to. You can't ostracize that many people. They are our brothers and sisters and it will be on us to forgive them and welcome them back into the fold like in the prodigal son story.

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