What a sad, sad loss. It is the very heart of Paris. I am so grateful to have been there but always thought I would see the cathedral again.

Heartbroken.

I had no idea the entire crown of thorns was there. I imagined it would be in pieces in various places, like wood from the True Cross. I've read conflicting stories about whether it survived. It just compounds the tragedy.

I'm sad to see such a historic structure destroyed. I'm glad that art work was saved, but what about manuscripts? Were not there irreplaceable manuscripts in that building also?

Ominous. Cathedrals have burned throughout history and some have been rebuilt. But never the same.

Very sad, it's a lovely place.

French cathedrals are owned by the French state, not the Church, so resources are readily available to rebuild it. Notre Dame is very well photographed and documented as part of its protection and on-going restoration, as with other historical sites. Fortunately, expert tradesmen and artisans still can be found in Europe with the skills to fix and reproduce what's needed. However long it takes, this symbol (both good and bad) of French history will be rebuilt.

As far as relics are concerned, well, the authenticity and veracity of most were disproven long ago.

Five years ago an appeal went out saying the structure was structurally unsound and could collapse within...five years. That was quoted in an article I read last week. There was paltry response to the fund raising.

The French government has done what it could, however Notre Dame is not a national monument but a functioning Catholic church. I'm sure the francs I deposited in the donations box almost 55 years ago on our honeymoon didn't go far.

Maybe the world will pay more attention 'next time'?

jemdandy, I believe that the important manuscripts are housed in the Bibliotheque Nationale. The rector of Notre Dame said a little while ago that he thinks the crown of thorns, along with some other relics, has been saved.

chisue, the relationship between the State and the Catholic Church has been strained since the Revolution and is too complicated to describe quickly. The properties themselves are mostly government owned (cathedrals by the nation, churches by the local city/town or other subdivisions) and the religious activities are conducted by the Church itself as a type of tenant.

France is officially secular and as in most of Europe, religious participation has been in steady decline. With the declining interest of the population in religion, spending money on religious sites is a political hot potato.

BUT, France is the most visited country in the world and this church is one of its treasures. Notre Dame is a historical and cultural heritage site and one of the highlights for most visits to Paris (besides the museums and the Eiffel Tower). It must have millions of visitors each year for itself and the neighborhood it's in. I don't doubt it will be rebuilt.

A treasure. So much destroyed....they say, they will rebuild. But....still a treasure

lost. It is a sight never forgotten.

And Shakespeare and Company, a quaint bookstore, is in the vicinity.

Heartbreaking. I'm so glad I was able to visit in the past and I'm so sad for all those who will never see the amazing cathedral as it once was.

Tragic and heartbreaking loss...

Elmer, not only that, but some major parts of the cathedral, including the now-destroyed spire, date from the 19th c., not the medieval period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Viollet-le-Duc#Notre-Dame_de_Paris

While it's a tragedy, I have no doubt that it will be rebuilt.

It's been a long time since I was in Paris, but my youngest has been begging to go for several years. We were finally going to take her later this year when my oldest is studying abroad in Madrid. We are planning a trip later this year to Spain and France while my oldest is over there. I'm so sad we will not get to visit this marvelous cathedral.

I've traveled all over Europe, studied abroad there for 8 months, and I still think there's a difference between restored and rebuilt entirely after being completely destroyed by a fire... I hope there's money to rebuild as they were having difficulty even coming up w/ the funds for the restoration work.

Good, then you've seen plenty of rebuilt, restored, renovated structures and fine art. Do you know which they were?

This is the place where Napoleon was crowned emperor by the pope - could be some karma going on here. Also, the Christians destroyed many Greek and Roman temples, and I would rather see those Greek and Roman temples than Notre Dame Cathedral. There was also widespread destruction by Christians in North and South America. I do appreciate the need for architectural preservation, but Christians have not done a very good job of preserving any architecture that was not their own - hence the karma.

This, however, seems to be a very unfortunate accident, and I am saddened by it, but not to the point of grief. I don't like seeing anything destroyed, but Christians (and especially Catholics) have done their own share of destruction. At least no lives were lost during this disaster. I know of several churches that have been destroyed by tornadoes, which were also described as "acts of God".

I also believe that a phoenix can rise from ashes.

BTW, I do share a lot of the philosophy of the Italian Futurists of the early 20th Century, but not to the extreme of the Futurist Manifesto.

So glad I was there to see it in its glory and so sad to see it gone.

Elmer, usually when you go on tours of places (cathedrals, churches, etc.) the tour guides will tell you what restoration work has been done. At least in my experience.

I just happen to think it's sad that future visitors to the Cathedral will be looking at something newly rebuilt in 2019 and beyond, rather than 13th century oak and a spire constructed in the 19th century, even if they do a really good job making it look the same. I'm sure they could make a copy of lots of famous old art too and probably make the art look identical but it just wouldn't feel the same. If you disagree, fine.

It is sad, Beagles. It's very sad. It's also sad that there has to be ANY hint of provocation in a thread like this (I'm looking at you, Elmer), as everyone has the right to express their grief over the loss of something so historically and culturally significant in any way they so choose.

Elmer -- Your comment about the cathedral being owned by the state is in conflict with the article I read last week -- and now can't locate. (It was probably in the Chicago Tribune or BBC online.) It made quite a point of the fact that *because* Notre Dame was in daily use as a consecrated RC Church, the State was limited in the aid it could provide towards restoration. (Excuses, excuses?)

I guess we'll see how that all plays out now, after the destruction. As with houses, it's probably faster and easier to build new than to remodel (restore).

Here's a search result found quickly to answer your question:

Ownership of Notre Dame

Here's an interesting short series of before-and-after, using sliders.

Notre Dame before and after

chisue, the French Revolution and its aftermath are very complicated and something I'm not fully acquainted with. But I know that the historical power, wealth, and abuses of the Church became a target and started the political concept of what translates as "secularization" which has continued even to recent days. It has been much more than simply a separation of Church and State. Along the way, the major assets of the Catholic Church (including churches and other property) were confiscated and put into the hands of the State.

That's part of the background.

Pamela Druckerman is an American author and sometime-contributor to the New York Times and a longtime resident of Paris. She describes ND as more of a tourist destination and cultural symbol than a religious place. Here's a short piece that she wrote that was in the NY Times yesterday

Pam Druckerman's thoughts about Notre Dame

Thanks for the links. I certainly 'get' the Church/State history in France -- and the background of the French revolution as it impacted our own Declaration.

So...what do you think about a new standing seam steel roof? Think how it would echo in that vast space during a heavy rain!

"and the background of the French revolution as it impacted our own Declaration."

If there was any effect of one on the other, I think it's the other way around. Both the US Declaration of Independence and the Constitution predate the French Revolution by several years. And of course the colonists were separating from a distant overlord while the French people were overthrowing the excesses of the monarchy and the Church, and many other perceived problems while causing other excesses in the process (getting into the complexities I'd rather avoid).

Let us be happy today that it appears that the structure is mostly still physically sound and the interior of the church was mostly protected by the interior vaulted stone ceilings plus religious relics were saved. While restoration is going to be massively expensive there will be plenty of the original structure to build on if the initial assessment proves true.

Did any of you see that picture of High Alter after the fire:

To see that cross standing and gleaming in the midst of such ruination, is to me a very powerful statement. Especially during Holy Week.

It sounds as if the stained glass windows and the organ survived, even if there is damage. And the bells - those wonderful bells. It's really the roof and spire that are gone forever, and of course, all that stuff that came down and destroyed things on which it fell.

I had the great good fortune to live next door to Notre Dame (on rue d'Arcole) when I lived in Paris; my little apartment had a balcony that I could step out onto to peer at the towers. The bells would rattle my teeth. I am brokenhearted.

I noticed that too, Anglo, that everything around the cross was destroyed. Yet the cross is still standing, and doesn't appear from the picture to have been burned.

It is indeed totally sorrowful.

I hope more survived than is immediately apparent.

sephia, everything around the cross survived as well. The foreground of the photo is filled with the debris that fell from the charred roof, but the altar, the statues around it, etc. are all intact. The interior fittings of this end of the cathedral, at least, don't seem to have sustained fire damage.

Here's a good photo from the Wall Street Journal, showing more of the interior:

Did I hear it right on the news tonight that 7 million dollars have already been pledged toward rebuilding?

Pledges of hundreds of millions of euros are rolling in from wealthy French and international donors to pay for the planned reconstruction of the Notre Dame cathedral damaged in Monday's dramatic fire....The donors include billionaire Francois-Henri Pinault, owner of the luxury group Kering, who pledged 100 million euros. His rival, billionaire businessman and owner of LVMH luxury goods group Bernard Arnault, said his family and company will donate 200 million euros.

The Bettencourt Meyers family, owners of the French cosmetic company L'Oréal, said they and the Bettencourt Schueller Foundation will donate 200 million euros.

The French oil company Total is pledging 100 million euros.

Almost a dozen other French companies and banks are pledging tens of millions of euros more and technical expertise to aid the reconstruction, according to Reuters.

beagles, I've seen that post, too. It is a dilemma. There are so many worthy causes and ways to help. One side of me says "this is just a building", but on the other hand it isn't just a building. As The Statue of Liberty is just a statue, but it isn't just a statue. The rebuild of Notre Dame will not have the same significance as the old, but it will have a different significance.

I hope they don't ring the bells too soon, could their vibrations further affect the integrity of the structure? But it won't be Easter in Paris without them.

I imagine they will be inspecting the windows closely; if the heat melted the lead of the spire, what about the lead caming on the windows? It doesn't take much to melt it!

Drone video after the roof caved taken by firemen.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/VcIGc3n

Beagles, thanks for posting that GFM link for the burned churches.

Although I have never been to Paris, I have always wanted to go. Took French for many years in high school and college. I have forgotten most of it sadly. Don't know if it would come back. Some probably. But I will probably never have the dosh to go there. A big city like that would be so expensive to visit. My mother, who minored in French in college, went to France after she retired but to the Loire Valley on a chateau garden tour. My high school western civilization history teacher visited all over Europe and showed us extensive slides of the Notre Dame cathedral and I studied it along with other ones, all of the features and their meaning to the culture. The only European cathedral I ever saw was the one in Cologne. That one was wondrous too. The iconic photos they are showing of Notre Dame remind me of my youthful imaginings.

Although they will rebuild, so much of what went up in fire doesn't even exist anymore, as we have all but destroyed most of the ancient forests in our world. That's why I so strongly believe in stewardship and conservation btw, it's connected to my love of place, story and history, which I inherited from my mother. Plant a tree in memory of Notre Dame! Care for it for the rest of your life.

While I am not Christian, I am saddened by this occurrence. The skills of the earlier generations who built this cathedral in large part no longer exist.

I had heard that the organ may have been compromised, has there been any word about its current status?

The first time that I saw Notre Dame Cathedral, I was struck by its beauty, in fact, it was the highlight of my European trip. Quite apart from its religious significance, it is an architectural treasure in many ways, one being its very high ceilings. Church builders of that era would attempt to build structures with as high ceilings as possible, sometimes unfortunately creating an unstable building. The exterior of Notre Dame Cathedral has numerous flying buttresses to support the structure from collapse, giving us the beauty of its gravity-defying vertical interior. And of course, the pointed arches in the interior that are typical of the Gothic style direct the eye upward.

Today, the Minister of Culture announced that 15 large paintings that were in the side chapels were not damaged at all and have been packed and moved to The Louvre.

The paintings of Notre-Dame in safety at the Louvre

The Cathedral is far from destroyed but will require extensive rebuilding and restoration.

The roof actually did what it was supposed to do, protect the vault of the Cathedral from damage.

The 'ceiling' that is seen inside is the vault, and only parts of it collapsed.

As burning wood fell into the Cathedral, the firemen put the fires out. In some photos of the damage, you can see candles on either side of the High Altar still intact.

The north side of the Cathedral where one of the Rose windows is, is considered to be most at risk of collapsing. A statue was sawed off from above the Rose window on that side and removed by crane (I saw the entire operation on a live stream) and the smaller, destroyed window above it was reinforced.

On a happy note, the bees that lived on the roof survived.

Scroll down in the article to see the bee swarm on a blackened Gargoyle.

The Bees of Notre Dame

Since I began traveling solo to Paris in 2015, Notre Dame has been the centerpiece of my visits.

During the 9 visits I've made, I've been incredibly fortunate to rent an apartment with a direct view of the Cathedral.

I decided on my March trip that it was time to move to another area,

I'll miss hearing the bells and seeing beautiful ND every day but I'm glad I could leave with happy memories.

From my March visit.

Went in 2009 and didn't get to go inside because they were renovating it back then. Sad to hear it burned, and didn't think it would get rebuilt because of the cost but I guess I was wrong.

Wow, that's great news regarding the bees! I can't imagine how they survived not only the heat, but the water as well.

Today's NYTimes has a superb article on exactly what happened during the fire: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/16/world/europe/notre-dame.html

I read that yesterday. I like how the graphics give a better understanding of what transpired.

It sounds, to me, like the fire security company received an alarm, and phoned a guard at the cathedral and relayed the information from the alarm that read "Attic Nave Sacristy" and the guard on site went to the attic of the Sacristy and found no fire. When he checked back in with the fire security company he was then told "No go to the Attic of the Cathedral." he climbed the stairs and found a blaze already out of control and then someone finally called the fire department.

It may well be that if the initial alarm had been handled competently, it might have needed no more than a brief squirt from a fire extinguisher.

Also given that the fire started in an area where active renovations were going on, and cigarette butts were found nearby, I think a carelessly discarded cigarette, or perhaps spontaneous combustion in oily rags thatmay have been present is the likely initial cause.

Bookwoman, thank you for that link. What a devastating story. I had been worried about the North Tower (when seeing pictures in real time) but never realized that it was already on fire. The fragility of the remaining structure is shocking.

Bookwoman, thank you for the article. The graphics and animation were wonderful and helped illustrate what happened and the timeline. I guess you have to wonder why the fire responders weren’t called immediately, even though the guard was sent to investigate.