"When a dog starts to pull..."

I think you missed the earlier discussion. A dog should NEVER pull when on a leash. What seems to be lacking here is adequate training.

I agree with Kool. I have had two dogs in my adult life. One did not need the harness, but this one does. I use the same one as you do Kool. The Freedom harness was recommended to me by both my brother and sister who have them for their dogs.

Yes, I know how to train a dog. and a harness is the best choice for this dog.

Elmer, I know you think you are an expert but unless you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes.......

My current dog is just different. You have to assess your needs and the dog's and make a decision from there. (My other dog would heel without a leash. She was certified to visit the psychiatric department at the local hospital as a therapy dog) . Nope, not happening with the current dog.

I would never tell anyone what is right for them or their dog.

eld, I know very little outside my own areas of study and experiences. I'm a sponge for comments from experts. I remember what I've been told or instructed to learn and that's usually where my comments come from. I'm not a know it all but rather a remember it all.

The harness avoidance view is what I've heard from several (maybe 3 different) dog trainers we've used for a succession of dogs over the years. All recommended pinch collars for leash use, for dogs of all sizes (even though ours have always been on the larger side). It's worked with 4 different dogs. That's the limit of my experience.

Since none of us can get inside a dogs head...we'll never know. So I think that we all do what we think is best.

Not one to criticize "experts", but just because something is regularly done, doesn't make it the best thing...especially when it comes to animals....

Personally I can't use a pinch collar. Neither can I use a "crate"...My dogs are well behaved and healthy.

As far as favorites.... (well....my dog's favorite), when I go out it's this:

https://www.amazon.com/Foobler-Timed-Reloading-Puzzle-Feeder/dp/B00MXF6OLY

It's called a foobler. It's basically a treat dispenser, but only dispenses at timed intervals...after it dings.

It "lasts" longer than a regular treat dispenser.

There are some local rescues that make you sign a document that you will never use a prong collar on the dog. I think this says a lot about them! There are also some local trainers here that have the people buy harness collars for their dogs...usually the type that the leash clips in the front. There are also some trainer around here that swear by a shock collar....something I would never consider using. So, I think if you look hard enough, you will find whatever view you are looking for....one way or another.

I'm not a know it all but rather a remember it all.

I want to have a sign made with that quote. I am stealing it. LOL I often suffer from the same syndrome. I call myself an information junkie. Some people get it, others never will. Once I am able to convince the pros of my desire to learn they often share much more information with me than they would otherwise. I was once accused of Googling answers to a trivia game. Well hell, I'm almost 7 decades old. Been around the block a few times and then there is the info junkie thing. I don't remember a lot of things, but words or ideas trigger memories for me and bring up the info stored in the recesses of my brain. It's just how my brain rolls.

I find that most people have a one world view and that is whatever keeps them in their comfort zone. They don't want expand their knowledge because their self esteem is too weak to accept they might be wrong.. They fail to take literal statements at value and on the flip side too often take jesting or sarcasm literally.

Idealism is noble but while walking my 5 yr old 65 lb rescue, she lunged, I fell, and broke both wrists.

The harness helps enormously with control, she gets excited/happy around other dogs in non aggressive ways, and we are working on training. I've had her a year and a half and don't regret ANYTHING. She wears the harness only on walks in areas with lots of stimulation.

I agree!!!! It's not a one size fits all. You do what works for you.

Ouch, so sorry about your wrists.

Thanks OP - I did not know those paw cleaners existed! I have ordered one. My 2 big dogs have had such muddy paws this spring. I actually tried just using a cup and that was a disaster. I know I'll have to train them to use this but I think it's going to be so helpful!

“When a dog starts to pull..."

I think you missed the earlier discussion. A dog should NEVER pull when on a leash. What seems to be lacking here is adequate training.

Not at all, I actually believe you missed my point. Our dog is trained, she knows all the standard commands and then some. She’s well behaved and has great manners, but EVERY dog pulls until its taught not to. I’ve invested a lot of time into her training and for our situation, the No Pull Harness was a helpful training tool. I don’t agree with that article because that’s not been my experience. I also don’t think it’s that black and white. As with anything, there are good harnesses and there are bad ones; to get it right, one just needs to invest a little time and effort to find what works best for them.

Eld, I was tickled to read that you and your family members use the same one!! We always use the harness to walk her. It’s different from anything else out there and it’s comfortable for her.

" EVERY dog pulls until its taught not to. "

Okay, I can start at this point.

Every dog pees and poops in the house until it is taught not to. A dog should never pee and poop in the house. One that does is lacking adequate training

We can now add your sentence

" EVERY dog pulls until its taught not to."

to which I said

" A dog should NEVER pull when on a leash. What seems to be lacking here is adequate training. "

You come across as very argumentative but I’m not interested in a debate.

The only pet product i really swear by is the Kong toys. Every single dog i have had loves them, even without food inside. And they are durable. Since i have had mostly pit bulls, and they have quite powerful jaws, i can attest to this.

I train my dogs(puppies) with a harness. When they pull, it lifts their feet off the ground, and they stop. Then you make them sit and stay until you tell them its okay to proceed. This is how the PROFESSIONAL trainer that trained Sammy and Sebastian did it, and told me to do it. It works. and it works quickly. Different professionals have different methods and opinions. There is not one right solution to a problem.

beans, if your dog continues to pull after a reasonable period of training, you either need to try other techniques or get another trainer. Dogs can and should be trained to walk at heel and not pull.

There may be exceptions here and there. Have you had other dogs that you trained to have proper leash behavior?

I swear by Nutri-Vet Multi-Vite vitamins for cats! It's "paw gel" that's actually a cream. All the cats come running when I flip open the top. I don't put it on their fur... They'd rather lick it off a plate or my finger. I've been using it for several years now -- their fur is much nicer and the vet always comments about what great shape they're in for their age.

Elmer J Fudd: "Harnesses should never be used, they're the sign of a poorly trained dog." Look into the research about long-term trachea damage and cancer, which some vets believe are caused by tension on dog's collars during walks. Unless you're living in a world I've yet to discover, even the best-trained dogs can occasionally lunge after something. Either way, a harness is more comfortable and perhaps safer medically. They are certainly not the sign of a 'poorly trained dog,' though they may be the sign of a compassionate, educated owner.

Elmer, my dog is 8 years old now and hasn’t pulled since she was a puppy “in training”. We use a harness when we take her for walks because it’s the law that dogs be restrained, not because she needs it.

ETA: Maybe you’re taking the name of the No Pull Harness as literal in that the only time it’s used is when a dog has a problem with pulling. If that’s the case, then it would help to explain why you keep suggesting that my dog isn’t properly trained regardless of what I’ve written to clarify. The No Pull Harness may help to correct pulling, but it’s also a great alternative for someone who doesn’t want to use a standard leash and collar (like me!)

Our dog wears a harness as well. He is a double coated dog and collars do not show. Also there is the trachea issue. He is always on a regular leash as well. Training aside (and he has had lots) a harness will always win out.

bestyears, most adequately trained dogs don't "lunge" when on a leash. If there are trainers in your area who do group sessions, go to one to watch. I think you may see things that are new to you.

Vets are more attuned to dog behavior and degree of training/no training than you may realize because it often affects them in dealing with same as patients. I have a close relative who's a vet. S/he uses pinch collars for training and walking their pet dogs.

koolbeans, you said

"We use a harness when we take her for walks because it’s the law that dogs be restrained"

If there's some logic to this in the harness vs collar discussion, I don't see it.

I give up....

From the internet and sums up my view. I think these collars are excellent for training and it is my go to.

The prong collar controversy is real! ... The fact is, the prong collar, when fitted properly, is designed to be the most humane way to train and to NOT harm your dog. Many people have never seen a prong or pinch collar properly used in dog training.

https://www.rescuedogs101.com/the-prong-collar-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

Elmer -my daughter and her husband are both veterinarians and I’ve been involved with dog trainers for the last five years, both personally and through an organization where I volunteered, so I think I am fairly well-informed.

That's great.

My info comes from dog trainers, not from my relative. I was sharing my observation of what my relative does. Not knowledge by osmosis.

Prong collars are the modern version of what used to be called, with an unfortunate name, choke collars. Maybe there's less likelihood of harm done with a prong collar when used by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

Some advocate gentle leaders. We tried that first with our current dog and she disliked it and wouldn't respond well when it was on.

I will answer the polite question in the spirit I think it's being asked, also in a polite way:

Nope. No personality disorders or other issues that I'm aware of. I have an optimistic disposition and rarely feel stymied by people or situations. I'm an everyday normal guy who has had a normal life with normal relationships. Married over 35 years with kids, good relationships with all and I'm fortunate to have many long-term friendships.

Perhaps one diagnosis that might be helpful, is that it strikes me sometimes that I'm a lifelong learning curious and confident male often in discussions with females who aren't either sometimes.

There was a comment made a few days ago that I disagreed with but I didn't say so, and it raised an interesting thought. I understand full well that people are wired differently, have different positives and negatives in their inherent personalities, etc. You yourself have shared some thoughts about what's inside "you". There are many who come to understand their own personality specifics and with that knowledge in hand, stop there. "Oh, I never do well at work, because I'm afraid to speak up". "I lost a friend because I wasn't confident enough to explain myself", etc. For too many, such insights provide an excuse to justify accepting problems.

Maybe more commonly a male than female attribute in my generation, but I'm a problem solver. If there's something you do or don't do that's an obstruction in your life, you need to work on it. If someone says something you didn't know about, learn more, don't defend an apparently misinformed opinion until you're better informed. Maybe you'll stick with what you thought before, maybe you'll alter your view. Closed minds are a sad thing.

An assessment of self isn't an excuse that then becomes the end of a story. It should go on a list of things to deal with. Many here don't have that attitude.

Feathers, my apologies for the threadjack....I hope it will resume as I've enjoyed seeing what people share what they like :)

penny, I consider myself open to constructive criticism and thoughtful or informed opinions that disagree with my own. I think I change my opinions about things pretty frequently and more than most. I'm a good listener. My friends and work colleagues have remarked at times that I can be impatient with people who struggle to get things right, or to understand something I consider to be simple. I think that's true. Figure it out and digest it, move forward. Uninformed or misinformed opinions smell like spoiled food, they're easy to discern. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with me because I'm relatively tolerant. but don't sit stupefied over something you find perplexing or difficult to explain. Work it out and then hop to the next lily pad before the one you're on sinks.

You too have a good day.

If you have a dog that likes to roll balls around with his nose and paws, there's a toy called a Jolly Egg (made by the same company that makes Jolly Balls)...it's egg shaped and rolls all around in different directions when the dog pushes it. One of the dog's at the dog park is absolutely obsessed with this thing. Jolly Egg It is not rubbery but rather it's a hard plastic kind of like....oh maybe like a trash can would be. It's funny to watch them play with it! If I recall correctly, the Jolly Ball was originally a horse toy so you can imagine, they are made to be tough.

I once had a Black Lab that was a voracious chewer. He destroyed a Jolly Ball within a couple of days. The weak spot was the screw to fill the ball with sand or water. I have a picture of him somewhere carrying the ball. He quickly grasped that he could hook his lower teeth in the indentation and scrape off enough plastic to get a grip with his uppers.

Regarding crate training. Think about what would happen to your pet's psych if they were never crate trained and had to be confined for a medical reason for a length of time. The same Lab had to have TPLO surgery not once but also a revision when he popped a screw outside ( he tried to jump back in the car before I could bend down to lift him) the vets following a post op checkup. The surgery required this very active, bouncy trouncy boy to be confined to a crate or small pen for 8 weeks. Outdoor potty on leash, no other free time at all. Zero. Because he was previously crate trained he handled the confinement very well. Because of his behavior in the crate we were able to upgrade his quarters for him to a small X Pen for the final few weeks. Not crate training is setting a dog up for misery should illness strike. All my dogs have been crate trained. Some loved the crate so much we could never take it down, but all accepted it and learned to be in for various lengths of time without stress. It a gift of love to your dog to make them trust and accept what is best for them. It is no more a gift to not train a dog properly than it is to not teach children proper behavior and manners.

True harness story from last summer. I and a friend were in a park with my Rottie who as always in public places was wearing her prong collar. Across the pathway some woman comes along with a Doberman in a harness. The Dobie goes berserk when it sees my dog. My dog just barely starts to react. I give my dog a light, light correction to get her attention and quietly say leave it and we walk on. Look back and dingbat with the Dobie is practically doing a face plant trying to stop her her dog. The drag of her weight behind the dog was the only thing preventing the dog from continuing its attack. Plus we walked away quickly with drama from my dog. If she did face plant she deserved it. First for bringing an unsocialized dog to a public park and second even owning a dog she has no control over and being stupid enough to walk said dog on a freaking harness.

I can't tell you how many time it was only training and my control of my own dog that averted disaster when some small dog on a retractable leash lunged at her. There are two top dog things I believe should be banned, those retractable leashes and any toy that has braided rope attached. The former due to the above and the latter due to the damage to a dog that often results in the animal death. Anyone considered a rope toy a good chew toy (they advertise them as good for healthy teeth) should watch a video of surgery to remove miles of that floss impacted inside a dog's intestine.

I agree, those rope toys are deadly! If your dog doesn't chew, I suppose they are fun to tug on for them. There was a dog that I had been following that had been at the pound. He had some personality issues and they were really working hard to have him trained and make him adoptable. He was with a rescue and living with a foster family. He was doing very well with his training when he suddenly became ill. He ended up dying from chewing a rope toy, it had become lodged in his intestines and before they realized why he was sick, it was too late to help him.

I'm reading this thread as I plan to acquire a couple dogs down the road. NO I could never have one while working (sometimes 11 hours a day). I am seeing that people with second-hand dogs often do need harnesses. I'm not sure exactly what I'll need, but I want to be flexible. I also plan to herd sheep, so I will need a young herding dog (or a previously trained dog where the original owner can no longer care for his / her farm).

Anyhow, just reading, and not making judgements. After all, right now, I don't know.

Elmer, you can remove your comments in response to a rude and bullying question. The moderators have deemed the question offensive and your answer is no longer necessary, though you answered graciously.

Asking about a community member’s health, uninvited, is inappropriate. Sharing information about your own health in order to cudgel someone into answering your inquiries is bullying behavior.

PS I don’t mean to tell you what to do about your comment. I just wanted you to know, you could delete if you wished.

watchme, we'll have to take our socialized and completely controlled dogs to a prong collar parade sometime.

It's gotten to the point that other than dogs I know, I don't allow my dog to get anywhere near an unknown dog. In a park, I change direction to avoid the encounter. When walking down the street or on a sidewalk, I'll cross to the other side or walk up a driveway to protect my dog. It sounds like you do the same. I'm more cautious with the irresponsibility of others with my dog than when driving in the car, but the effect is the same (and so too are the people sometimes).

Two products that make my like so much easier.:

The Furminator, which held so much with our Tibetan Spaniel, Sasa. That dog has the thickest coat, and sheds like nobody's business! Here she is after I furminated her:

And, a long, heavy-duty, cheap, plastic pair of tongs from Walmart or Target (I can't remember, as this one has lasted for years!. It makes cleaning up after my furkids a breeze.

Our small, Chi-mix is on a harness because I had several (informed) recommendations for a harness vs a collar due to potential tracheal damage to this type of dog. I absolutely will not risk it. She's never had a prong collar. She had adequate training and doesn't pull, doesn't dart, is beautifully behaved on her halter and leash. I guess it's training, owner follow-through, individual dog, and dedication. I will never, ever use a collar on my dog.

Artemis, that’s a really cool plan, are you considering something like an Austrailian Sheep dog? They’re so smart.

Beagles, my dog likes the Nina treat puzzles! I have started feeding him his dinner in two of Nina’s puzzles and some in the ball puzzle. So far I haven’t had to help him figure it out but I have them set for the easier version. I have about 7 minutes of the dog running across the ceiling in the evening. Then, bliss.

So happy to hear that justerrilynn. It's so fun to watch them puzzle through and figure them out!

LynnNM, we have a Furminator, as well! I forgot about that... my husband is the one who brushes ours at home so it's not on my radar. But it's a running joke in our neighborhood when my husband takes her to the front yard for her brushing... they can't believe how much fur comes off.

So the tongs are for picking up dog waste?

Feathers: LOL, yes, I know what you mean! It looks like several white rabbits were done in after I furminate Sasha! And yes, I use the tongs to pick up their waste. It works wonderfully.

As for dog puzzles, I envy anyone that they work for! My Knight, a male Doberman, destroys them in minutes. Stuffed animals, as well!

I get a lot of pet food donated to me, and a few days ago I got some from a place called Hare Today. It was three 5lb buckets of raw food. One was finely minced up rabbit meat, and two were finely minced up elk meat. They were frozen. Also a sealed bag of round bones, sliced about an inch thick with marrow. I don't know what animal....I shudder to think....and a sealed bag of chicken feet...both from the same company. I didn't feed it to my animals. For one thing, being frozen and so much that I wouldn't know how to save the leftovers and I could see it becoming very nasty if it thawed out. I took out in the woods and left it for the coons. I was thinking. ..where are the coyotes when you really need them?

Next day, all gone. The hogs may have eaten some of it. And I know the crows had a feast.

I went to their website but it came up too small to read on my phone. Those 5 lb buckets were $50 apiece. Food for people who want to feed a raw diet. You can also order some that is the whole animal....small animals.

I used to get frozen mice for the possums. That was creepy enough. The wildlife center gave them to me....I didn't buy them.

" I got some from a place called Hare Today......One was finely minced up rabbit meat.... "

Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow.

(Sorry)

For Lynn, Feathers and anyone else who is ending up with a lot of loose dog or cat hair after grooming, this time of year is a great time to toss the hair outside under the trees. The birds go nuts over it for nest building material.

Good reminder, Dawn. One year I put my Persian cat hair around plants hoping to deter rabbits. The birds had a field day as they flew off wearing beards.

I used to stuff dog hair in between the canes of my rose bushes to repel deer. It worked very well.

That was the first thing that came to my mind also, Elmer.

Regarding dog hair, yes I put mine to good use, too. I put part of it out for the birds, and put the rest around plants I don’t want the deer to eat. Unfortunately, it doesn’t keep our bears away!

Hey, Kool Beans, I tried to contact you and messaging is not set up/ Message me.

I’ve set it up and sent you a message

The Litter Robot! Seven cats makes for a lot of scooping. We've had other self cleaning litter boxes before, but non can top the Litter Robot.

And I love Chewy. I have 4 autoships set up to ship once a month - litter, dry food, canned food and flea treatment. On a daily basis, we also feed 6-9 cats outside.