If I may be allowed the space to continue tirade, even if the it full of holes; I would first say that the article in question is simply bad science with more philosophy than actual science. Please take the time to read it. http://www.wildones.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Nativars-Statement-with-reference.pdf There is not one specific, verified, example of any damage done to a native population by the use of "nativars". As I said in my previous posting, there are no savage hoards of nativar Hostas rampaging through the forests of Eurasia. The same can be said for Franken-Flower coneflowers in the Midwest. It just isn't happening. It is very important to have a modicum of understanding of how genetics and mutation works. Most mutations are both recessive and undesirable. A chance mutation appearing in a native population will only continue and get into the general gene pool if it is either beneficial or benign. If it is beneficial it will work its way through the population by giving those that have it a competitive advantage. If it is benign, it will continue to show up but not very often and will not make any difference to the viability of the species. Those mutations that are deleterious produce individuals that will either not live at all or not be able to compete in nature and thus not reproduce. In our case, a weakened plant. Nature selects for strong plants that are able to compete and reproduce in their own niches. Humans do not. Most of the modifications humans make to plant and animals are done for our own purposes and tastes. Because we are selecting mostly mutations, the resultant organisms are less likely to be able to survive in the natural world. Big flowers with floppy stems and cows with huge udders are the same thing. Neither one will be an advantage in nature. So, what would happen if we planted on species of coneflower (since that seems to be the favored plant in the article) and surround it with acres of a single nativar of coneflower. What will happen? Over time, and I don't know how long, ALL of the coneflowers in that area would be the native species. Why? Not all of the nativars would be able to survive to reproduce. Those nativars that did survive would be reproducing by seed. Even though the nativar looks different from the species, it still has much more in common genetically with the species than differences. That includes the basic genetics that make it a coneflower. Each seed produced by the nativars would still have a great deal of genetic diversity. Those that are closer to the single species coneflower would have even more diversity because of crosspollination. The rules of natural selection would still be in effect. Only those seeds that are viable would germinate and only those seedlings that are strong would reproduce. Since the proven form is the species form, nature would select for that form. There is also a reason from physics for this. It is called entropy. Going from an organized state to a disorganized state. From complex to simple. A cultivar is a more complex form of the organism, a less stable form. It takes more energy to maintain the cultivar form. It takes less energy to survive in the species form. This drive to return to the species form is seen in both plants and animals. What happens to Phlox that are allowed to go to seed? Do they retain the fancy forms and colors? No, they revert to the species form. Freesia? Same thing. How many high quality apples will you get by planting seeds from your favorite apple? Probably none. They all want to revert to the species form. It may take a few generations but anything that is not a competitive advantage will eventually be jettisoned. In fish, those fancy guppies will go back to their original form if allowed to breed at will. Betas will do the same. Have you ever seen what happens to populations of goldfish that are allowed to breed indiscriminately? They become plane old ugly carp. One of our oldest breeding experiments has been the dog. What would happen if we let our dogs breed at will. In Australia, they became Dingos. You can see similar populations in poorer countries with big cities and open garbage dumps. The dogs tend to be of medium size, yellow with pointed ears held up and curled tails. In the southern U.S. we see feral pigs in the process of reverting. It is just a given that varieties are inherently unstable. Unless there is some empirical, verifiable, replicable evidence of any degradation of the gene pool, the nativar problem is philosophical, not scientific.

My first, and still a favorite, is my Pachypodium lamerie or Madagascar Palm. I bought it in 1994 when I thought it was a cactus; and it was a plant which George would have called an "ugly". George and I had been gay-partners for 14 years when he died of leukemia. He had fought for years against several serious medical problems. We had spent countless hours in trips to hospitals, emergency rooms and doctor's offices. But ultimately his body was no longer able to keep up the struggle. For the first year or so after his death I did not want to change anything in our house from the way we had it. But one day I had to go to HD for something and as I passed the garden department I could not help but laugh when I saw this little "cactus" and I could almost hear George say "Isn't that an ugly!" I knew that he would not have wanted it in the house (never much liked potted plants of any kind, and certainly not an 'ugly'). So I bought it anyway. That day marked a significant turn for me, for which I am very grateful. The Pachy is now almost four feet tall and I am hoping it will bloom. Maybe next year. It now stands supreme among very many other succulents and cacti, et cetera. Mike, my new love, well "new" for the last nine years, is much more sympathetic toward "uglies" and we are all quite happy together. Jerry

Well I went to the plant sale this last weekend, Sorry I did not post earlier my life has been in chaos so to speak. Long story I will not bore you with the details.... However I did purchase some plants, although they were not my first choices but here goes. I purchased Episica 'Silver Dust'Silvery green foliage, dark green veins, red-orange blossoms. Episica 'Tricolor' Silver green and white variegated foliage, copper green veins, red-orange blossoms. Compact grower. Streptocarpella saxorum Basket plant from Southern Africa, quickly growing to 8" tall and 12" across. Branches freely. Bright, inderect light. Outdoors in summer; year 'round bloom indoors. Care as for AV's. Also I happened upon a real whole plant (roots and all a pot too!) called Episica 'Kee Wee'?? A very dark green with red netting foliage.(I don't know what color it blooms? but for a $1- I thought that was a very good buy.) Also a Streptocarpus 'Texas Hot Chili' Bright red blossoms, wide yellow throat medium green foliage, compact grower. A streptocarpus seedling that is a lovely royal purple with interesting white speckles on it's "throat" very gorgeous. Last but not least I have been looking for a pineapple sage for the garden for over 2 years now sheez and when I found one I jumped upon it (not literally of course - I simply had to have it!) The rest are all cuttings or leaves. I also purchased a planted seedling of Chirita tamiana. I have read quite a few posts on this unique little plant and am quite interested in it as well. What a lucky find. She is small but all ready has a nice fat blossom forming as well. I am keeping my fingers crossed that all of them will at least attempt to grow. For the whole lot of plants it cost $10.00 I feel like a burglar in a candy store!! Everything was in my meager budget and I sure hope they all grow! Although, I wish they had more streptocarpus at the plant sale I can still say I am really am excited!! I saw the picture of 'Michelle' that Larry had posted I am in love with that plant shy to say, I even made it a desktop picture for my computer..... now that is what I call addicted! I am going to try and attend some of the local meetings. I discovered them at the plant sale. They have one that meets in the morning, and also one that meets in the evenings. I am sure with my chaotic work schedule that I should be able to make one or the other - yes you can say I am really hooked. Thank You everyone for all your advice and input - I really do appreciate everyone's help and input. Sincerely, Barb

Hi, its now 9:30 PM and the houseguests and roommates have all gone to bed. Well, almost, my cousin David is putting the last of the food away (but he fell asleep in the living room while we were all having desert). I am stuffed........but yes, that is an offset on the chirita in the photo! An offset is a new side shoot that grows off the older stem, usually from the base. I was showing our guest, Patrick the ornamental pumkins (white, celadon green, deep orange, multicolored; and, one turned out to be a turban squash, so he cooked it! We also had sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes and what seemed like a dozen other things. I do like the vegies. And, I also showed him the crop on the quince tree and so we picked a big basket of them, and he made quince compot too--very good, kind of like a homemade apple sauce. My old tree, planted by a previous owner, turns out to be an unusual variety called Chinese quince (pseudocydonia sinensis), which makes these huge fragrant bright yellow beautiful fruit--some were 7-8" long. I just love the botanical name of this tree--it just rolls off the tongue. Note: the three similar sibilant sounds all start with a different letter--p,c,&s. Yes, Jen, next year you will need to get 'Hisako' (who is Nagahide's wife, while 'Kazu' (another must have chirita) is his son. His name is NOT pronounced like the fake leather product.) And, also Jen, you will definitely need a few other chiritas, but we can talk about that later...... Jon, one eyelid barely open.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz