Kristin,

The reason I do not have a window on the range wall is the view from there. A window there is not going to work. There is a significant amount of light in the kitchen area due to entire back wall being glass. Yes there would be a little more if there was a window where the range is but the obtrusive view overrides that. There are only 2 full height walls in the kitchen. One exterior and one against the office, I am trying to keep the range on the exterior wall for venting issues. When I put the range on the exterior wall that takes up a lot of real estate, which brings me to the corner pantry option. Now that leaves the 36" refrigerator and 36" freezer which takes up a lot of full height real estate. The only height wall is against the office. Then there is the speed oven and steam oven which needs to be wall mounted. So that is what I attempted to due. If I try to work with the range/pantry location as is, I am going to go to a 48" range which will give me 15" on each side of the range. 48" isles are attainable. In regards to moving the pantry to the other corner, what other corner, that is the only corner.

Thanks for your input.

I'm sure I'm 'wrong', (and I'm a little crazy with how I don't like my back to doors)...but I put my range in the corner at an angle and I LOVE it. I have access easily to thing on both sides, and I feel that I have better peripheral sight lines when stuck stirring and people are walking into or through the kitchen.

Here is a sketch with a 48" range with 15" cabinets on each side.

Here is a wider view of the floor plan. I hope this will clear up the mirror image issues.

Are all those seats for the house warming party for all the people that gave constructive comments in this discussion?

That's a good one. LOL If you think we need more I am sure we can arrange it. You never know when 20 or 30 of your friends are going to drop by.:)

Actually, they represent the dinette & dinning room table that we have. I am hoping the sketches will make things more clear.

I still think it will be a wonderful house.

I'm tired just reading all of this!

We're suppose to read it??

Its not mandatory reading but there will be a test on the contents.

I knew there was a catch to being invited to the house warming.

Mark, your supposed to keep that on the down low, until the formal announcement ! So much for the surprise!

Debbi, you got to admit it just sucks you right in, like a good movie ! You just do not know what the next post will bring. Every post is a nail biter.

What speed / steam oven are you getting that you need a 3' 5+" cabinet? (That appears to be wider than the all fridge / all freezer built ins?)

Never mind - I saw the elevation. Looks to be a decent amount of trim framing the ovens.

There are pull outs on each side of the ovens. They are Miele. I made it that wide to allow for the plate rack above.

I think that’s the most appliances I’ve ever seen in one kitchen. The style does mirror the exterior, so that’s good, but for me, personally, I think I would find it a bit intense style wise and chaotic. I’m not sure how the panty door opens? Does it hit the island? My son is constantly raiding the pantry like the proverbial racoon, so I am greatful the pantry is not in the work zone of my super tiny kitchen. I guess the warming drawer is beside the stove for efficiency, but I agree the placement of the sink in this design is awkward, not sure how could do anything differently tho. It looks as though it might be a good few steps away from the stove, meaning carrying pots of hot water much farther, and the sink is also a good distance from the fridge. I also agree, that ideally, you’d be able to pull things out of the fridge or put them in from an adjacent counter.

There is a prep sink on the island, it's represented by the round circle, but will be square.I need to figure out what size. Pantry door will not hit the island. There will be a pot filler above the stove. Refrigerator is going to be hinged right. This will allow the use of the island for refrigerator items in & out. Stove, Speed Oven, Steam Oven, Dishwasher, Warming Drawer, Ref., Freezer. Most appliances in one kitchen??? Please elaborate.

I have never had a kitchen in the league of this design, nor have I ever used one. My parents have always had a full freezer, but it is/was kept in the basement, in the laundry or furnace room as it happens. I’ve never seen one directly in the kitchen. I’ve even used kitchens with virtually no freezer, not being meat eaters we are not prone to buying sides of beef, nor do we need to stock up for a months worth of shopping, I have maybe 5 grocery stores in walking distance currently. If I lived somewhere rural or I farmed, I think they might become a necessity. My last kitchens had no dishwasher, I never grew up with them, now I would not dispute their usefulness, but I don’t have one that works (they constantly seem to break down). Never used or had a warming drawer in any space I’ve ever cooked in, except maybe a commercial kitchen (as in DQ). I had a stove that had a warming drawer, we just used it for storage, never tried it out, it was from the 30’s. I could see them being useful if I has to prepare large complicated meals regularly. Never had or used a steam oven, I wouldn’t have any idea how to use it, if I need to steam something I use the stovetop, a bowl of boiling water or cook something in a waterbath. I don’t even have a stand mixer and we do coffee on the stove. I have a bare bones kitchen.

Understood. We are out in the sticks, 20 miles to the store. We kinda stockpile. LOL Steaming is wonderful, great for left overs as well.

CCwatters,

Upon review through the dust storm of the previous posts I discovered your post. Thanks for the input. I am definitely in the sifting mode. As all of the dust settles there has been a lot of good information :)

I dunno...the OP wrote, "...would like to get some fresh perspectives..."

But for many comments or suggestions, it seems the OP's response has been to defend his design choices and be unwilling to consider the "frest perspectives". Perhaps I'm wrong.

But in reading this extended thread, it looks a lot like one of those "pat me on the back for my many wonderful choices" threads.

If I'm wrong, then good luck on your project.

Please measure distance from corner point of island to closest point on warming drawer wall, likewise opposite corner to closest point of pantry wall. Looks like reducing the island width 3" each side allowing more clearance may be in order. Also 48" clearance around the island in a kitchen that big would be warranted.

Dishwasher best location would be to the right of the sink. It will allow you a 12" cabinet to the right of it. Put a 24" double waste basket cabinet with compost unit to the left of the sink. You will need a filler there to meet the angle. The trash cabinets would then be located between the sink and the range.

Placement of the fridge is fine and the freezer being at the end used less often is also fine.

the warming cabinet in the middle surrounded by the pullouts also make that an appropriate position for the kitchen you are working in. Glasses location should be closer to where you empty them from the dishwasher. Try drawers in the island closest to the sink. Silverware, glasses, and pegged dish drawer.

The change to 48" range & 15" on each side also a good choice allowing more work space. If you are able to utilize any of the wall space -by the posts to the right of the range with inset shelving for spices, oils, etc that might be useful.

It will be beautiful when done. Hang in there!

You may also want to see if there is a better place for the bar sink as standing in front of the fridge may not be ideal

Virgil, When someone makes a suggestion I simply respond to what my thoughts were. If I did not want any ones perspective I would not be here I can pat myself on the back without the help of this site! Contrary to popular belief this is not some sort of self inflicted sadistically maligned design review. LOL

Mcoledesign,

The current dimension from the island corner to the pantry & WD is 40". Going to a 48" aisle would make the measurement 43". I was going to put spices etc. in pullout in between WD and stove. I was thinking of moving the prep sink more to the center of the island. This would allow space to set items from refrigerator on the island corner as well as room on each side for prep. I was trying to keep the prep sink directly behind the range. The pullouts next to the SO,CSO were a result of the plate rack above not being wide enough. I am aware that it is not an ideal place for glasses. I just do not know what else to put there, while still being symetrical.

Moving the prep sink sounds like a good idea to me. I would also consider extending the island some and make the cabinets between the great room and island shallower. I think I would shift the prep sink more towards that area then the middle too since the middle would just give you about 2.5 feet of prep space on each side of the sink.

I would also swap the fridge and freezer locations so others can access the fridge without getting into the main prep space area. As it is now when the fridge is opened whomever is prepping there won't be able to stay in that space due to the size of the door. Even at a 48" aisle it won't help.

What might be helpful at this point is for you tor you to draw a new plan to incorporate the changes you do wish to make and put in this thread so people can comment on it.

With as much entertainment space as you have it seems like you have lots of people so I would get 2 dishwashers. I have 2 dishwashers on my list of wants and I don't entertain that much or even have the need for it based on family size, but I like the idea so I don't have to have dirty dishes hanging around while the other is running or waiting to be unloaded. Like we currently do and nobody is willing, but me to hide them in the sink.

Lyfia,

Here are two new sketches.

Just two kitchen comments.

1) If you cook, you will need more space around that cooktop for adding things. Ask me how I know. My old house had just as little space, and it was painful to cook and add things to the stir fries or whatever I was making there. In that case, I did have a nearby peninsula, (as you have that island) but it was still very awkward to use. I managed, but that house could have done a LOT better! Now if you don't really cook much, it won't matter. But even for show, this could be better. If you are going to be spending a lot of money on building this house, make it work efficiently.

Edit, I've blanked some of this horror from my mind, but I did a LOT of prepping ON the range top... just over another burner.

2) I know many people are moving away from upper cabinets, and all lowers may work for you - but for resale some of us tall folk who love to cook would not be interested in purchasing. At the price this house is likely to need to command, there's no way I'd consider it.

I'm only going to make one general house comment, since you don't intend this to be the focus of this thread. And I'm making it from personal safety thoughts.

Sunken GW... As someone who has been on crutches twice in the past three years, that's a total no go for me. While only one of those events was due to an accident, I'll also note that some of your potential guests may find a sunken room hard to navigate. Neighbors you haven't even met yet, but you may like to entertain in your space. Elderly relatives. And if you decide to live there for awhile - ain't none of us getting any younger.

PS, I always wanted a turret. I wanted to go up in one and write.

It wasn't going to work with any of my home designs... oh well...

Yes. Turrets are excellent in situations where neighbors are pesky...

Artemis, I thought I had turrets as well but I have towers not turrets. Bpath educated me on that along with a picture of a true turret, by definition. You have to pay attention I stated earlier there was going to be a test on the contents of the posts at the end. LOL

Virgil, I could of used something like that early on in these posts. ;)

The upper cabinet consideration is a non starter for me. There are only 2 full height walls to locate a 36" Ref. a 36" Freezer, a 48" range , the CSO, a pantry (built in or cabinet) and the SO . There is not a lot of wall space left for upper cabinets.

I thought it was because you were short.

I know this has been a looooong post but even I can not remember making that declaration. But I could be wrong. :)

Houses I have designed without wall cabinets were usually for cooks that didn't play much basketball.

We could start a whole-'nuther thread on where best to locate the backboard and basket...

This reminds me of grade school when you tell the secret to the first person in line and by the time it gets to the end of the line its totally different, ie. kitchen toooo basketball ??? :)

Hi rgator-

I am late to the party, and maybe that's a good thing.

Unfortunately I can't see the plans very well, and the more I try to enlarge them, the fuzzier they become.

I see that your dining room has seating for 12.

Unless when you entertain for 12 you just order in pizza, that's a lot of table linens, china, silverware, serving pieces, etc.

Where in your plan do you have space for that? Do you have a basement? A butler's pantry?

In an ideal world, I would either have a dining room built 6 feet wider than necessary so that I could have 3 feet of invisible storage on either side with those invisible doors that spring open when you touch them.

Or maybe I would do that in a hallway.

Another thing I am a stickler about, coat closets.

I can't tell if you have any.

Houses on TV rarely do, which is just ridiculous.

Two are even better than one, especially if you live in a cold climate.

I don't know how you live and entertain.

If as a family you sit at the large dining room table and you are served the vast majority of the time by domestic help, then the first plan with more counter seating is fine.

If not, then I like the second plan better because it makes it easier to bring food from the stove to the dining room without walking all around the counter. If the hired help are doing it, well, that's their job, and there should be more separation between them and the family dining.

Kathleen,

If you post a layout I am positive someone here can assist you with your problem, you know, having to actually use the lights. Although the prognosis of the problem can not be determined until we know how far you actually have to travel to turn on the lights. Then we breach the cost of the electric used in the fixtures and the manufacturing therof as a possible devastation to the planet. Solar, wind, candles or maybe a bigger sun room or breakfast nook could all be viable possible solutions. I heard, on the down low, that subsidies are being considered for individuals with these types of problems. Hang in there!

Nevertheless I am glad we could entertain you. Just keep'n it real ! LOL

Loobab,

Thanks for the input. I am definitely sympathetic to the closet cause. I made that mistake the last go around. I had to put coats on a bed in a nearby bedroom. Lesson learned.

No patient (the layout ) ever enjoys the medicine (the critique ) but the application (self righteousness ) of the medicine can make a huge difference in the overall treatment of the patient !

melandadams91

Simply put, and a stunningly appropriate quote "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen ! " LOL

I was not attempting to be the Houzz design teams nemesis but by default I have become the MARTYR ! :)

One of the driving influences in the design of this house, perhaps the biggest, is the structural system, Post & Beam. It is not as flexible as other methods of construction, so some spaces may not be sized efficiently. The structural and visual impact of the posts and beams drive the design sometimes more than the spatial relationships. The structure creates "square hole" that do not fit Houzzer's "round pegs".

I stayed in the hospital once and there was one medicine I really enjoyed.

Mark - even in the hospital, medicines do not have the same effect on every patient. Codeine is a widely used pain killer. But if I take it, in 20 minutes I'm doubled over in agony, an appropriate comparison to this discussion.

Mark

The structure creates "square hole" that do not fit Houzzer's "round pegs".

OOHHH that's a good one!! I like it!

Just for reference this is a Timber Frame not a Post & Beam. Post and Beam homes typically use metal braces, fasteners and supports. A Timber Frame uses mortise and tenons no metal. Light years of difference. In your defense there is no way of knowing that just from the supplied drawing, so I will give that insult a pass. LOL

Catlady,

The other appropriate analogy would be, " A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down!"

I was using the term "Post & Beam" in a general sense where it describes construction using posts and beams, regardless of material or their connection detail.

My previous comment was not intended to insult anyone, only to point out that the method of construction influences the design of the structure, which it seams few people realize.

The sugar analogy is not the point I was trying to make. The point is there was a decision made to use a post & beam which gives the spaces ambiance, but to some degree puts constraints on the layout. Few people are aware of the constraint inherent to post & beam and the thinking of those not away do not necessarily fit those that do. I assume the company that designed this house is the same company that will be building this house.

Mark,

I realize there is no malice that is why I included the free pass & LOL I was just pointing out the differences. For future reference if you want to irritate a Timber Frame owner just call it a post and beam.

If I was to guess I do not think there are a lot of Timber Frame designers or owners here. It is an entirely different animal which lends credence to your statement, "that the method of construction influences the design of the structure, which it seams few people realize. "

I am still all in on your your amazingly appropriate statement, The structure creates "square hole" that do not fit Houzzer's "round pegs". it sums it up the best.

On another note remember " prarie" how about seams? seems :)

Seems, got it!

HU,

GEEEZ that won't be any fun !! Its all smoke and mirrors . Heard of Tom Sawyer?? This stuff is really fun. LOL

If you click on his name there will be a contact block.

Mark,

The sugar comment was directed to Catlady. I edited the post to clarify.