If you want reliable buy a 30". Based on your criteria I would buy a Bertazzoni from a local store that has good service. (In Chicago that is Abt).

Although my daughter has a two year old 48" Thor that has been completely reliable.

No range fits your criteria of an inexpensive 36" range with camry-like quality. So the next best alternative is to be sure to buy from a local store that has excellent service.

Thanks, Don, for your thoughts but I need a 36 inch range, not 30 inches. I liked the Bertazzoni when I looked at it but I was suspicious of the analog oven thermometer on the outside because 1) Is it accurate? and 2) How can the thermometer be replaced when it breaks in the future?

Bluestar!

I think you are being melodramatic about cast iron grates. You need to drop that overemphasis and get a Bluestar. Your list in your OP is not on Planet Earth, but Bluestar will come the closest.

You made no mention of hood exhaust. If you don’t have one, or it‘s poorly-ducted and low-powered, I take back my rec for a Bluestar. In that case, just get another Premier.

Your bread looks fantastic.

I just noticed your roommate is a chef at Per Se. Lucky duck, you!

I hate cleaning gas cooktops too. Induction is better than gas in all ways.

I can't comment right now -- I need what you need so I want to follow this discussion. I don't mind Bluestar -- but I was hoping for something cheaper. As you said, Consumer Reports didn't like many of the choices -- and I think they liked Thor better than BS, if I remember correctly.

I'm wondering about Verona? Any comments anyone?

I think I just found something to answer my question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sxPGE-EuoE

I also wondered what people thought of Zline

Hi Kate B. That YouTube video link you posted is from 2014. A lot has changed within the last 5 years but still no clear answers to our concerns have come out. I'm still researching relentlessly. I go to appliance store after appliance store. I swing from just wanting to give up and get another cheap Premier stove to considering the best-of-the-best. I'm still confused.

All of the low cost 36” are junk. More than half are cheap Chinese junk. Go Bluestar RCS if you want to focus on value and not price.

What does your friend the chef have for a range at home? I've read that most chefs seem to be satisfied with smaller, non-pro ranges.

Have you looked at Thermador or Miele? How close do they come to your wish list?

This might help,

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/best-36-inch-pro-ranges

I had a similar list when I started looking for a range for our new house. In our old house, we had a 1950s O'Keefe & Merritt range which was perfect (dependable, sturdy, and cooked well) except that it has only four burners, and one very, VERY small oven. It cost us $25 Canadian 25 years ago when we bought it secondhand from the original owner, a very good deal : ) .

I wanted a 48" gas range, reliable and carefree and nothing digital (because we live in the back of beyond in rural western Canada). I also did NOT want anything self-cleaning because I want to prolong the life of my range. I ogled Lacanches and La Cornues for a while on the GW forums, but they're beyond our budget. I flirted briefly with beautiful Bertazzonis and Ilves from Italy, but they fell down in the reliable and carefree department. I ended up with a cobalt blue BlueStar RNB, 8 burners, and it's been lovely and just the workhorse we need on our farm, where we grow and raise a lot of our food, cook for all three meals, and do a lot of canning. The range very easy to clean especially once the grates are seasoned, much of which seems to happen naturally. The more we use it, the better it looks. I'm in love with the rack on rollers, especially any time I roast one of our farm-raised 30-lb. turkeys lol.

Hi beckysharp. Well, you and I live in very different communities. You on an amazing farm and me in a NYC war zone. Isn't the internet amazing? So my chef friend is my roommate and we both cook on a 36 inch Premier Stove that is 20 years old, rusting, and falling apart. Funny thing is I can get a brand new replacement for a mere $600. We both cook on it just fine it's just that we both want something better. Perhaps one of the things I like about the Premier is the broiler. The bottom drawer pulls out and you broil your food under the gas flame just inches above it. Because I live in an old NYC apartment the smoke is absorbed into the oven above the broiler instead of in my kitchen which doesn't have a ventilation hood. I work in a steakhouse and I can get a char on my steak just as good on my cheap Premier as from my restaurant. As much as I would love to have the Bluestar open burners it's not practical for me. Even though my current roommate would take care of a Bluestar range I know that future roommates will not. I can see myself coming home late night after work to see spilled Ragu all over the stove. So this is why I'm insisting on seal burners.

This is for Kate B. also. I just discovered FiveStar ranges. They are made in Tennessee. I've been researching them for the last few hours and they look promising. They remind me of my Premier but made a whole lot better with BTU's ranging on every sealed burner from 350 - 21,000. The broiler is on the bottom of the stove and uses gas flames just like my Premier also. The sealed burners are of high quality and the stovetop looks easy to clean. FiveStar ranges are used by professional chefs like Rick Bayless, the great chef of Mexican food. Most of all the FiveStar range looks really simple, with very little that can go wrong with it. It's difficult to find a lot of reviews but all of the reviews I've read are positive. I can't seem to find any high quality photos of the stovetop, however. I also can't tell how obtrusive and heavy the grates are but they do seem manageable. I will call FiveStar tomorrow and ask a few questions, especially about their warranty.

https://fivestarrange.com/products/ranges/36_range 

GE CAFE CGY366SELSS

It says this is no longer being manufactured

The GE no longer is made but is available. It is essentially the Monogram version with one less ball bearing rack and less of a warranty. That said, you might be able to get the Monogram version for not much more if your retailer offers discounts. Our Monogram appliances were quite a bit below MSRP.

David, I research to the point of paralysis, so I understand your decision criteria. I'm following for the recommendations because in a few years I need a 36" range recommendation. BUT, did I read your last update correctly, there is no hood? Or is it a recirculating type hood versus a ventilation hood. If no hood, that likely changes the recommendations on this thread. Any chance to modify that? If so, I'd get the Premier and save the money to make the modifications for the hood. But take my advice with a grain of salt because I am not an expert at all!

thanks for the tip on the Five Star, David - checking them out

It looks like I can’t find a FiveStar to save my life in the tri-state area. This is concerning considering they are based in the U.S. Also the grates seem big and heavy. Also I tried calling FiveStar all day and no one picked up the phone. One more thing about FiveStar that someone pointed out to me. Notice how the stovetop is 36” wide but the oven part is only 30” wide. They cut off 3” on both sides. My Premier range also has a 30” wide oven but it also has storage on one side. Not so with the FiveStar.

Also, today I went to two appliance stores. By far the best one was Reno’s Appliance in Paterson, NJ. They had a huge selection of ranges. I saw things I’ve read about but have not seen in person. I spent all day looking, pulling, touching, and asking questions about everything.

So after all is said and done I’ve narrowed my search to three ranges. Yes, the antiquated Premier range is still in the running. Not the pro style as the grates are not well designed on it. Just the regular, black, sealed burner 36” stove with a window.

The other two stoves are by Bertazzoni and Fisher Paykel. We've all read the negative reviews about the Bertazzoni but their new ranges are redesigned. Funnily enough I saw an old version and it looked cheap in comparison. There is no pull out drawer in the new version to make room for a larger oven capacity. I also hate the logo on the burner caps but that can be changed to regular caps.

There are two ranges I’m considering in the Fisher Paykel line, the Classic and the Contemporary. The Classic has better specs but it’s a lot more expensive. They both have accessory drawers and they are nice. Here’s the clincher though. Fisher Paykel is running a 5 year full service warranty on their products and because I live in NYC they have their own technicians in my area.

One thing I think I’m going to have to give up. None of these ranges seem to have an infrared broiler. I have to research each broiler more carefully and see if one is better than the other.

And, yes, jennsbabysky, I have no hood in my kitchen. I have two windows and a smoke alarm nearby. So far I’ve only had minor issues with my present gas stove.

mishmash, also the GE has digital timers. My number, 3) I do NOT want anything digital on my range.

when I went to the Five Star site it said you can direct buy, David.

Direct buy sight unseen? Without a track record? What about a warranty and who is going to service it? Not for me.

david, I was born and raised in NYC and learned to cook on the original 1920s gas range in our prewar apartment. It's probably one reason I'm so attached to gas rather than anything else.

I haven't read about Five Star here in a long time. Not quite 10 years ago, Sabjimata did a beautiful kitchen and put two 30" Five Stars together : ) ,

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2671320/five-stars-for-my-fivestar-ranges#n=6

Some other posts,

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/looking-for-reviews-on-fivestar-ranges-dsvw-vd~3258079

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5-star-range-review-dsvw-vd~4379186

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/fivestar-48-gas-range-dsvw-vd~5315672

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/30-gas-range-decision-blue-star-five-star-etc-dsvw-vd~2326023

Thank you, beckysharp. I read all of those threads about FiveStar. With the 30" wide FiveStar range, you get a 30" wide oven, however, if you move up to the 36" wide range you still get the same 30" wide range. FiveStar did not increase the oven size for the wider range. I'm still not calling it quits on FiveStar yet. Their sister company, Summit, has headquarters in the Bronx, just 7 miles from where I live. Maybe they have a FiveStar range I could look at and since the parts are common maybe it will be easier to get a service call if something goes wrong.

Perhaps this next question is for another thread but I wonder why some ranges have a hand rail at the very top of the stove. Apparently AGA and other european stoves have this feature. Pictured here is one of the stoves I'm considering. It's the Fisher & Paykel Classic all-gas range. I like the black contrasting color but it's $700 more than the naked stainless steel counterpart. You notice the handrail at the top? What is it for and is this something you would want or would you find it a nuisance?

UK cookers like AGA and Rayburn, which provide constant heat, have hob rails to dry things like tea towels, and in the UK you can actually get special racks and additional rails to use that heat to dry everything from towels and other laundry to wet boots lol.

beckysharp, That's amazing. Now I get it. Hmm, with the Fisher Paykel why is there a "hob rail" on it then? I hope it's just not decorative. If the oven is sealed properly there would be no reason to have one. Would you like a hob rail on your oven?

It could be vestigial lol. I would call Fisher & Paykel and ask. (Also ask where they're made. I think they used to be made in NZ and Aus but several years ago moved most manufacturing to Asia, esp after Haier become a majority owner. Check reviews for the past few years in the Appliance and Kitchen forums.)

What's even more amazing is this,

https://www.blakeandbull.co.uk/collections/drying-racks-rails-for-range-cookers

I love the Aga range cookers and dreamed about one for years. But as cold as our winters are, our summers are warm (and getting warmer and more humid). And houses well-insulated.

Wow, too funny. Those drying racks are hilarious. It felt like I stepped back 100 years. Of course I could see why they are still desirable in northern climates with old houses. A range like a Bertazzoni could use a hob rail since it provides constant "on" heat.

I just got off the phone with FiveStar. They showed me their 36" gas range with FaceTime and went over all the features. I love the fact that it is only 25" deep so it will fit through my doorways. Capital, Bluestar, Wolf, and Viking are all too deep. I also love how retro it is. Yes, it is not fancy. It has exposed screws and one oven light. The grates seemed lighter over FaceTime than the photos but I was told they weigh around 10 pounds each. They only offer a 1 year warranty and they have service tech guys in my area that will fix it. AJ Madison offers an extended 5 year warranty so if I were to get a FiveStar I would go this route.

Something else about Fisher Paykel. The oven gasket around the Contemporary line, OR36SDG4X1, is thin rubber and I just saw a YouTube video showing heat escaping the top of the oven door at 175º! Too hot. The Classic line, OR36SCG4X1, has a thicker woven gasket that most of us are used too. At this point I'm leaning towards the black Fisher Paykel Classic that is pictured above even though it's more money, OR36SCG4B1.

Oh geeze, I just found a kink with the Fisher & Paykel Classical and Contemporary ranges. Not that I take Consumer Reports seriously ( they laud LG and Samsung though they are riddled with problems) but they did say that the burners on these ranges were poor at simmering. It seems like the lowest setting is 1000 btu's, not low enough for a gentle simmer. More investigation is needed...

Now I went back to look at the Bertazzoni. It doesn't have storage but the btu's go lower plus it has an infrared broiler! How did I miss this. I am worried that the analog thermometer is going to break down the road but maybe it's a risk worth taking:

Bertazzoni MAST366GASXT:

The high-efficiency maintop with 6 brass burners features 2 dual ring 19,000 BTU power-burners that boil water in under 6 minutes (best in class), and 4 additional MonoBloc burners of variable size and power to suit every style of cooking, with delicate simmer at 750 BTUs.

The 5.9 cubic feet oven cavity is the largest in its class, with dual convection fan for balanced airflow and even temperature baking and roasting on 7 shelf levels. The elegant large temperature gauge monitors the actual temperature in the oven. The extra wide infrared gas broiler is ideal for grilling and searing at high heat.

I have a DCS all gas. 10 1/2 years no problems. It does have heavy grates but most nights I just tip them & wipe.

Oh geeze, here is my anal retentiveness rearing its ugly head again but here we go again. Hang on...

Probably due to the terrible review that Consumer Reports gave Bertazzoni years ago on an older model people are shying away from the new model. Does the new model make up for the sins of the last model? So how about this comparison, The Bertazzoni MAST366GASXT vs. the Fisher & Paykel OR36SCG4X1?

Off the top, I can get an extra burner with the Bertazzoni. The Fisher & Paykel offers only 5 burners. The Bertazzoni has better btu numbers, going from 750 btu's to 19,000 btu's. Fisher & Paykel goes from 1,000 btu's to 18,000 btu's. One of Bertazzoni's burners goes down to 750 btu's but the rest of their burners have higher btu's. What if you want to simmer more than one sauce at a time? Fisher & Paykel's burners only go down to 1000 btu's but all of their burners go this low. I am not worried about the btu's at the high end but the low end I am worried about. Are Fisher & Paykel's 1000 btu's low enough for a gentle simmer?

The Betazzoni doesn't have a storage drawer. The Fisher & Paykel does.

The Betazzoni seems to have a thin rubber door seal which can wear out faster than Fisher & Paykel's more robust woven door seal.

Also, on the Bertazzoni, I can easily see sauce spilling into those rear air vents at the back of the oven. Is there a way to clean these vents if this happens? The Fisher & Paykel doesn't have this problem.

The Bertazzoni has a 11,000 btu infrared gas broiler. Is it similar to the ceramic infrared broiler in the BlueStar Pro range? Though infrared broilers are preferred, is Bertazzoni's 11,000 btu broiler better than Fisher & Paykel's conventional 13,000 btu gas broiler?

I finally found a stat that is the same on both ranges. The baking/roasting power on both ranges have a maximum 17,000 btu's. The difference is that Bertazzoni's oven is always on and kept at a constant temperature. I've never cooked with a range like this before and I wonder how much of an advantage it really is over conventional oven that turn on and off to regulate the temperature.

Finally, at least of this writing, Fisher & Paykel is offering an extended 5 year warranty on all of their products, unheard of in the industry. Bertazzoni's warranty is the conventional two years so you will have to purchase an additional warranty for peace of mind.

There are other questions I have too but this is a start. The problem with appliance dealers, blogs, and reviews is that no one really seems to be a consumer advocate. Has anyone addressed the issues I brought up here? I think potential customers would like to have answers to these questions.

I rarely have catastrophic spills these days. But, of course, over the last 30 odd years, they have happened. I'd much rather disassemble my Bluestar and throw the grates into the sink (or in bad cases, the dishwasher). Most of the spill runs through into the aluminum foil lined drip trays, which are trivial to clean.

On the other hand, any time I had to clean baked on food from hot closed burners, I couldn't stop cursing. I don't understand why anybody would want to do that.

Of course, cleanability is so important, then nothing beats induction

Yes, those rear vents on the Bertazzoni worry me. I have roommates and sometimes I get one that doesn't know how to cook. I can see a jar of Ragu sauce falling in those vent holes. I make mistakes too. It's human.

I started this post 11 days ago and now I'm going OCD. I thought that many people might be interested in a discussion comparing Bertazzoni vs. Fisher & Paykel so I started this thread about these two gas ranges only. Hopefully you can chime in with your thoughts. I would love to hear from engineers also. They have a way of knowing things that consumers like myself don't think about. The jury is still out about which way I'm going. Every day I change my mind.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/bertazzoni-vs-fisher-and-paykel-gas-ranges-2019-dsvw-vd~5653817

Hi! I have loved reading through this thread all to find a open ended mystery. David, to tell, what did you choose and what is your assessment of your choice. The suspect is intense!

Hello, Denise. Yes, I chose a Bluestar 36” RCS range. I am going to do a full review but I must admit, I am a bit daunted by the task ahead of me. To be blunt, I’m disappointed by the quality of the closed burners. They are powerful but they do not simmer gently on the lowest setting and they are made by a third party supplier out of builder grade aluminum with cheap powder coating. Please, stay tuned.. A full review has been a long time coming. Thank you.

Did you buy the open or the closed burners? The open burners are generally loved by everybody in this forum. While on the other hand, the closed burners don't really play to the strength of Bluestar and I haven't heard too many great reviews. They honestly don't seem to be worse than what other manufacturers do; but they also aren't any better