Wealth+Fraud = Ticket to elite college!

dandyfopp

Buying faking and bribing their way into college?

I can't wait for Donnie to weigh in on this!

^^^

Actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin among those charged in nationwide college admissions cheating scam

https://abcnews.go.com/US/actresses-ceos-arrested-nationwide-college-admissions-cheating-scam/story?id=61627873

Hollywood actors, including Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin, and a slew of chief executives are among 50 people charged in a nationwide college admissions cheating scam, according to court records unsealed in Boston Tuesday.

Those indicted allegedly paid bribes of up to $6 million to get their children into elite colleges, including Yale, Stanford, Georgetown and the University of Southern California, federal prosecutors said.

"Beginning in or about 2011, and continuing through the present, the defendants -- principally individuals whose high-school age children were applying to college -- conspired with others to use bribery and other forms of fraud to facilitate their children's admission to colleges and universities in the District of Massachusetts and elsewhere, including Yale University, Stanford University, the University of Texas, the University of Southern California, and the University of Southern California -- Los Angeles," the indictment said.

In most cases the students did not know their admission was contingent on a bribe, officials said.

The 200 pages of charging documents in the case were unsealed in Boston federal court.

According to the charging papers, Huffman "made a purported charitable contribution of $15,000 ... to participate in the college entrance exam cheating scheme on behalf of her eldest daughter."

"Huffman later made arrangements to pursue the scheme a second time, for her younger daughter, before deciding not to do so," the documents allege.

Federal agents secretly recorded telephone calls with Huffman and a cooperating witness, according to the court papers.

The documents say actress Lori Loughlin -- best known for her role as Aunt Becky on the ABC sitcom "Full House" -- and her husband, fashion designer Mossimo Giannulli, "agreed to pay bribes totaling $500,000 in exchange for having their two daughters designated as recruits to the USC crew team -- despite the fact that they did not participate in crew -- thereby facilitating their admission to USC."

Federal agents obtained emails from Loughlin implicating her in the scam, according to the documents.

Federal authorities ultimately had three cooperating witnesses to help them build their case.

One of the cooperating witnesses is a founder of the non-profit Key Worldwide Foundation based in California and another worked as the director of college exam prep at a prep school and sports academy in Bradenton, Florida, according to the court papers.

This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.

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chase_gw

Just listening to the press briefing. This is truly shocking and disgusting. Thirt three parents indicted , some paid over $ 1 Million .......most about $500K. They then turned around and claimed a tax deduction!!!

In another thread there is much discussion of tax payer support of those receiving social assistance including poor single Mom's.........these parents are multi millionaires , CEO's , investment brokers, bankers...etc . Taxpayers bear the burden of both.

I know which parents I think the worst of.

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Joaniepoanie

I don't think this is anything new. Trump's dad made "contributions" to Penn didn't he? And no doubt Trump did the same for Don Jr, Ivanka and Eric....none of the Trumps are bright enough to get into Ivy League schools. And I remember reading that Jared's high school counselors said no way did he have the grades or SAT's to get into Harvard.

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Kathy

Why doesn’t this surprise me? I am very surprised the IRS was brave enough to expose this. I give credit to the woman at the IRS in Boston that is exposing these criminals.

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chase_gw

This goes far beyond simply paying for admission.

In this case the parents paid to have others write SAT's , correct SAT's. develop false sports portfolios etc.

The coaches were paid bribes, the SAT administrators took money to falsify SAT's either by having someone else write it or have someone correct the paper after it was written and before is was submitted.

The students admission were fraudulently obtained and the charges are federal racketeering charges.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Never heard of University of Southern California - Los Angeles.

As far as I know there's only one USC and it's located in Los Angeles (and on the list on University of Southern California).

I'm not surprised about USC -- private university.

Edited to add: I wasn't aware that USC was considered an "elite" university -- very expensive, but not on the academic level of the other schools listed.

So maybe the nickname University of Spoiled Children has more truth than I thought.

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tryingtounderstand

The other question, what are the odds these kids will even succeed and graduate.

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dandyfopp

It is outright fraud, with more indictments to come, Thank you FBI!

Come on Donnie, burn those liberal elites with a tweet! LOL


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chase_gw

Nancy, only one college administrator has been charged. The prosecutor said the Universities themselves had no knowledge of these fraudulent applications.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Odds are good TTU. Well, at least they were until the federal authorities (edit) got on to them.

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Joaniepoanie

Knowing what we know about Trump, does anyone believe he got into or graduated from Penn on his own merits?

ETA....I don't think this is the first time any of this has happened.....paying for good SAT's, bribing coaches, etc....it's just the first time it's come out. Haven't the super wealthy always played by different rules, not all of course, but surely many.

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dandyfopp

I don't think the kids whose parents buy and scam them into Harvard or Yale have to worry too much about success.

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Chi

It's no secret that kids of rich and well-connected parents can go anywhere they want. I am glad they are finally punishing them.

It's so unfair for all these kids that work their butts off to get a rejection so these entitled kids can have a spot.

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blfenton

These parents are being punished because of the fraud perpetrated to get them into the colleges. I feel sorry for those kids who didn't know what their parents had done and apparently not all of them knew.

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Chi

And on the practical side, they aren't doing their kids any favors. I went to an extremely difficult school and I was admitted legitimately and I still struggled. Someone admitted without the academic credentials would have a really hard time graduating.

Granted, I've also heard the most difficult part of the ivy league is getting in, so maybe they would be fine. Depends on the school.

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catkinZ8a

Spin it!

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Stan Areted

Well well well. The elite isn't so smart, after all--doubly stupid, in fact.

Stupid criminals.

This is ONE thing the U.S. Department of Justice has done right.

Others, no doubt, but we need more of this--how many deserving prospective students did not get into colleges? There has always been a back channel and donations to nudge acceptance--but this is outright fraud, having someone else take SAT and ACT tests, substiting results of the tests? Lying about athletic participation to the point of photoshopping your child's head on an athlete's body? Bribing coaches to lie about sports participation?

No wonder actor William Macy said in January--according to one of the articles I read this morning--that college admission time was stressful--apparently Ms Huffman, now charged with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and was recorded discussing the scheme with a witness, was all in on those fake test scores first child--made arrangements to repeat the fraud, but hesitant to do it again with second. CNN--March 12 2019, ABCnews.com March 12, 2019..


The worst thing is that these young people have been taught to cheat, and they're special--the "ruling class."


Mmm.

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Ziemia(6a)

And the wealthy buy their way in pushing. What did this mean for the not wealthy?

The wealthy get ahead by pushing the rest under.

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Stan Areted

It means they're doing it the right way, in most cases.

That's good.

You can't control everything.

But when this behavior is revealed, you can prosecute.

Wonder if Ms. Huffman will now still be the strong modern woman, toast of Hollywood? Perhaps she was already on her way down. No matter.

Maybe she and Harvey can do lunch.

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catkinZ8a

Couldn't they just have claimed Cherokee Nation heritage?

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catkinZ8a
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dandyfopp

Still nothing from Donnie on this. How odd.

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catkinZ8a

lol

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mrskjun(9)

I don't think "Donnie" was named in the lawsuit. But keep trying. lol

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Stan Areted

Some people see everything in the world through "Donnie."

If not, then he is referenced an awful lot--which means on the brain.

I think there's a cure for that.

FOUR MORE YEARS MAGA! LOL


I hope Ms. Felicity Huffman is paying her publicist a BONUS today.

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d_gw

Are the Trump fans giving the administrators and the others accused a pass? All I have been reading is cackling about one actress.

A slew of business executives and two high-profile actresses are among more than 40 people charged in a $25 million cheating scheme to help wealthy students to gain admission to top colleges, law enforcement officials say.


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d_gw

Gregory Abbott, 68, of New York, and his wife, Marcia Abbott 59. He is founder and chairman of International Dispensing Corp., a food and beverage packaging company.

Gamal “Aziz” Abdelaziz, 62, of Las Vegas, former president and executive director of Wynn Macau resort.

Diane Blake, 55, of San Francisco, an executive at retail merchandising firm.

Todd Blake, 53, of San Francisco, an entrepreneur and investor.

Jane Buckingham, 50, of Beverly Hills, Calif., CEO of a boutique marketing company Trendera.

Gordon Caplan, 52, of Greenwich, Conn., co-chairman of an international law firm Wilkie Farr.

I-Hin “Joey” Chen, 64, of Newport Beach, Calif., operates a provider of warehousing and related services for the shipping industry.

Amy Colburn, 59, of Palo Alto, Calif.

Gregory Colburn, 61, of Palo Alto, Calif.

Robert Flaxman, 62, of Laguna Beach, Calif., founder and CEO of real estate development firm Crown Realty & Development.

Mossimo Giannulli, 55, of Los Angeles, fashion designer.

Elizabeth Henriquez, 56, of Atherton, Calif.

Manuel Henriquez, 55, of Atherton, Calif., founder, chairman and CEO of Hercules Technology Growth Capital.

Douglas Hodge, 61, of Laguna Beach, Calif., former CEO of Pimco investment management company.

Felicity Huffman, 56, of Los Angeles, actress.

Agustin Huneeus Jr., 53, of San Francisco, owner of wine vineyards.

Bruce Isackson, 61, of Hillsborough, Calif., president of a real estate development firm.

Davina Isackson, 55, of Hillsborough, Calif.

Michelle Janavs, 48, of Newport Coast, Calif., former executive of a large food manufacturer.

Elisabeth Kimmel, 54, of Las Vegas, owner and president of a media company.

Marjorie Klapper, 50, of Menlo Park, Calif., co-owner of jewelry business.

Lori Loughlin, 54, of Los Angeles, actress.

Toby MacFarlane, 56, of Del Mar, Calif., former senior executive at a title insurance company.

William McGlashan Jr., 55, of Mill Valley, Calif., senior executive at TPG private equity firm.

Marci Palatella, 63, of Healdsburg, Calif., CEO of a liquor distribution company.

Peter Jan Sartorio, 53, of Menlo Park, Calif., packaged food entrepreneur.

Stephen Semprevivo, 53, of Los Angeles, executive at privately held provider of outsourced sales teams.

Devin Sloane, 53, of Los Angeles, founder and CEO of provider of drinking and wastewater systems.

John Wilson, 59, of Hyannis Port, Mass., founder and CEO of private equity and real estate development firm.

Homayoun Zadeh, 57, of Calabasas, Calif., an associate professor of dentistry.

Robert Zangrillo, 52, of Miami, founder and CEO of Dragon Global, a private investment firm.

In addition:

William Rick Singer, 58, of Newport Beach, Calif., owner of the Edge College & Career Network and CEO of the Key Worldwide Foundation, was charged in an information with racketeering conspiracy and money laundering.

Mark Riddell, 36, of Palmetto, Fla., was charged in an information with conspiracy to commit mail fraud and honest services mail fraud as well as conspiracy to commit money laundering.

Rudolph “Rudy” Meredith, 51, of Madison, Conn., former head women’s soccer coach at Yale University, was charged in an information with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and wire fraud.

John Vandemoer, 41, of Stanford, Calif., the former sailing coach at Stanford University, was charged in an information with racketeering conspiracy.

David Sidoo, 59, of Vancouver, Canada, was charged in an indictment with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud. Sidoo was arrested on Friday in San Jose, California, and appeared in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California on Monday. A date for his initial appearance in federal court in Boston has not been scheduled.

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d_gw

Igor Dvorskiy, 52, of Sherman Oaks, Calif., director of a private elementary and high school in Los Angeles and a test administrator for the College Board and ACT.

Gordon Ernst, 52, of Chevy Chase, Md., former head coach of men and women’s tennis at Georgetown University.

William Ferguson, 48, of Winston-Salem, N.C., former women’s volleyball coach at Wake Forest University.

Martin Fox, 62, of Houston, president of a private tennis academy in Houston.

Donna Heinel, 57, of Long Beach, Calif., senior associate athletic director at the University of Southern California.

Laura Janke, 36, of North Hollywood, Calif., former assistant coach of women’s soccer at the University of Southern California.

Ali Khoroshahin, 49, of Fountain Valley, Calif., former head coach of women’s soccer at the University of Southern California.

Steven Masera, 69, of Folsom, Calif., accountant and financial officer for the Edge College & Career Network and the Key Worldwide Foundation.

Jorge Salcedo, 46, of Los Angeles, former head coach of men’s soccer at the University of California at Los Angeles.

Mikaela Sanford, 32, of Folsom, Calif., employee of the Edge College & Career Network and the Key Worldwide Foundation.

Jovan Vavic, 57, of Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif., former water polo coach at the University of Southern California.

Niki Williams, 44, of Houston, assistant teacher at a Houston high school and test administrator for the College Board and ACT.

Michael Center, 54, of Austin, Texas, head coach of men’s tennis at the University of Texas at Austin.

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HU-511001656

mrskjun(9)

I don't think "Donnie" was named in the lawsuit. But keep trying. lol

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well 'Donnie' has his own college-cheating scandal - you know the one where he cheated our vets--and others, out of their $$ for attending his phony universities and was fined $25,000,000. for doing so.

speaking of $$ and influence - looks like Jarry got a little help from daddy



My book exposed a grubby secret of American higher education: that the
rich buy their under-achieving children’s way into elite universities
with massive, tax-deductible donations. It reported that New Jersey real
estate developer Charles Kushner had pledged $2.5 million to Harvard
University in 1998, not long before his son Jared was admitted to the
prestigious Ivy League school. At the time, Harvard accepted about one
of every nine applicants. (Nowadays, it only takes one out of twenty.)

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2019/03/rich-people-cheating-to-get-their-kids.html

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terezosa / terriks

" I feel sorry for those kids who didn't know what their parents had done and apparently not all of them knew."

That was my thought at first, but many of them had photos taken on rowing machines to show their "experience" on a crew team, etc. They must have known that something was up. If they truly had no idea of what their parents were up to I do feel sorry for them.

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Becca Reese

It will be interesting to see how these institutions deal with the children of those being indicted. Some obviously knew and others didn't. None are charged at this time.

I assume institutions will address these individuals on a case by case basis.

Do you expel them? No cheating, period? Ignorance is no excuse?

Or, do you determine they are getting good grades, been good students and members of the school community?


Everyone knows the rich can in many instances, get their kids legacy spots in school. That's not universal, of course. But the message to all higher education systems from testing to teaching to coaching is loud and clear.


I hope operation Varsity Blues helps level the playing field.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

These people did not use their money to go through the official channels. Maybe it takes a lot more money to be considered a development case, idk where the dollar amount is, but this scandal has nothing to do with how super rich kids actually get in. These people got caught up in a criminal scheme, as opposed to a morally questionable one.

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HU-511001656

Just think when the IRS starts going after those 'contributions' aka bribes/payoffs - and the people taking them as tax deductions.

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Roberta

Lol and these are the people lecturing us and saying President Trump is immoral.

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Chi

You really don't think there are Republicans on that list?

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Roberta

Unknown . But I KNOW there are Hollywood elites on the list!!

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HU-511001656

Roberta

Unknown . But I KNOW there are Hollywood elites on the list!!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes 2 are actors...but Hollywood elites??????????????????

Now if one was Julia Roberts and the other was Tom Hanks, well...

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diane_nj 6b/7a(6b/7a)

Being “Hollywood Elite” and Republican isn’t mutually exclusive, it looks like Loughlin is a conservative Republican.

Grifting knows no party.

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dandyfopp

Still nothing from Donnie? Maybe it is too close for comfort but would that be because daddy paid his way into college or maybe because he is loathe to praise the FBI for busting up a criminal enterprise?

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chase_gw

This has zero to do with politics and everything to do with an attitude that says " I'm rich, I'm entitled" .

To bring this to a political level undermines the seriousness of what is going on. Why are rich people's crimes never as egregious as poor people' s crimes?

Drop the politics and look at the underlying issues.

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HU-511001656

chase_gw

This has zero to do with politics and everything to do with an attitude that says " I'm rich, I'm entitled" .

To bring this to a political level undermines the seriousness of what
is going on. Why are rich peoples crimes never as egregious as poor
peoples crimes?

Drop the politics and look at the underlying issues.

*********************************************

There's also another level to this that I can sympathize with - it comes down to the universal wish that in the end parents just wanting the best for their kids.

This is what some poorer people resort to that can't afford private.

My friend's daughter had a daughter that was going to start HS, the school in her district was horrible and had gang issues, but the highly rated school district borderline was literally across the street which she could not attend.

She paid/arranged with somebody in that good district to say that her daughter was living at that address so she could attend the better school.

She was later caught and had to pay thousands back in tuition.

She committed fraud, but in the end it was to give her daughter a better/safer school which I get..


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dandyfopp

Nothing is more important that what we have sitting in the WH chase.

How did he get there?

But you are right, and I think Kellyanne would agree, best not to consider Donnie in these matters. Too political!




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SpringIsComing

To be clear, rich people have bought their kids spots in elite schools since forever. You make a very large donation to the school (amount depends on many things including if you were an alumni, how famous/well known you are, etc) and your kid magically gets accepted.

That is not what this is. This is a crime. This is cheating on SATs to get a higher score to get in. This is bribing a coach to give your kid one of their coveted spots even though your kid doesn't even play the sport competitively.

Two very different things. Both are unfair to those without rich parents. But, one is criminal and the other isn't.

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Kathy

They rationalize, everyone does it. All politicians are crooked. Etc.

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Cookie8

"Thirt three parents indicted , some paid over $ 1 Million .......most about $500K. They then turned around and claimed a tax deduction!!!"

Wow. I knew about the practice of buying your kid into school but to claim a tax deduction on that. What?

ETA: You would think you would keep this on the down low. How do you not feel shame to claim this. Everyone knows this was no charitable donation to the school.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

The mystery of University of Southern California - Los Angeles has been solved.

Local NPR says it's UCLA -- University of California Los Angeles.

Fail for fact-checking whoever wrote the article in the OP.

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catkinZ8a

Hanks is creepy. His IG is proof. Maybe he and his ilk will be implicated in more heinous stuff. Enjoy the show!

___________________________________________


HU-511001656


Now if one was Julia Roberts and the other was Tom Hanks, well...

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Stan Areted

Hypocrite?

Let's not forget about Felicity Huffman, champion of "women's rights."

She didn't care about the women her mediocre grown children were depriving from a fair shot.


The elite bribers and cheaters--Hollywood's own Affirmative Action--another way to shove qualified people aside for their "special interest" group.

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blfenton

The Key Worldwide Foundation owned by Rick Singer is classified as a charitable foundation. The parents paid their fees to the foundation and got a charitable donation receipt for their income taxes.

Whether or not the Key Worldwide Foundation is still a charitable foundation is up to the IRS to decide.

The Key Foundation didn't start off to bribe coaches etc to get kids into schools but obviously wound up doing just that starting in about 2011.

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HU-511001656

Stan Areted

Hypocrite?

Let's not forget about Felicity Huffman, champion of "women's rights."

She didn't care about the women her mediocre grown children were depriving from a fair shot.


The elite bribers and cheaters--Hollywood's own Affirmative
Action--another way to shove qualified people aside for their "special
interest" group.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What about Jared's dad $$$$$ contribution to Harvard?




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Kathy

I doubt this is about Dems vs Reps. More about entitled vs working class.

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cecily 7A

The entitled make a big donation. This OP is about grasping social climbers who can't afford to donate a dormitory to get their child into a top school so they faked SAT scores and resumes.

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catkinZ8a


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lakeaffect

This is the most criminal facet of the seamy underbelly of college admissions I have heard of, and I say that as someone who spent 12 years working in high level administration for a private, elite-ish university (not named on the list), albeit not in admissions, but close enough to know that who you know, and how you contribute, can be closely tied to who gets in. It makes me sick, and I don't care about the political affiliation of any off the accused, that is neither here nor here, it's about the entitled, and the optics of where their children attend college. The biggest irony is that most of these families are so wealthy it doesn't matter in the slightest where - or if - their children attend college, they are still going to be part of the 1%, regardless of what they earn, or don't, do as adults.

Full disclosure, I have a stake in this race, for as I've shared here previously, my daughter attends an Ivy League university that is not on the list (so far, anyway). As I am a graduate of a public college from a podunk state, I can tell you that she got in on her own, but if she had not, and her school was one of those named, I would be beyond pissed. That said, I'm still demoralized, as this show of gaudy wealth and privilege should disgust everyone who got into *any* college on their own merits.

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Becca Reese

I read Laurie Loughlin got her daughters into USC and paid $500K to misrepresent them as crewers. It was all about the optics of attending USC, and all about the parties and experience. Not about academics at all.

And yes, lake, they have so much wealth that the daughters would never have to worry about money, ever.

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Ann

Dershowitz was talking about this situation today and made an interesting comment. He said there is no way these kids would have "survived" these schools years ago as they would have immediately flunked out. But, he complained, these days, any kids can cruise through any school and won't get less than a C in any class. Good point and kind of a shame. I've always been a fan of competition and challenging standards in schools, at all levels. Heck, most schools these days don't even give letter grades until high school.

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Swampy

The Gentleman's C is how the Bush brothers got through college , Ann.

It's been around for two hundred years. Dershowitz knows this, but was betting you and others did not.


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Becca Reese

Ann, you would think it readily apparent when these rich kids who didn't belong in the universities their parents paid for them to get into. Thing is, that same money, fame and connections allow them to skate by.

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Ann

Luckily, there are still majors where that can't happen. For example, no one without brains will pass diff eq in engineering school. Arts and Parties, however, most definitely offers cruise through opportunities.

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margievank

She paid/arranged with somebody in that good district to say that her daughter was living at that address so she could attend the better school.

She was later caught and had to pay thousands back in tuition.

She committed fraud, but in the end it was to give her daughter a better/safer school which I get..

Perhaps a rational person would MOVE into the district that they want their kid to go to school in?

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MrsM(6)

Personally I think the kids should be pulled out of the schools whether they knew or not. Some of them might be wasting and taking up precious time of their professors if they're not sincerely interested in learning or even capable of keeping up in a big league school. Might sound harsh but maybe some wealthy parents in the future might think twice about such blatant acts of greed and prefer not to be publicly shamed. Sure stuff like this has been going on for years but this is ridiculous.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

"Perhaps a rational person would MOVE into the district that they want their kid to go to school in?"

----------

Sure, easy peasy.

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dandyfopp

Speaking of skating by.. Donnie is quiet, Dolt Jr. isn't.



https://twitter.com/TimOBrien/status/1105624393038917632

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chase_gw

"Luckily, there are still majors where that can't happen. For example, no one without brains will pass diff eq in engineering school"

Ann , the cheating was largely on SATs.......do you have any information that sugests the cheating was program specific ?

Why do you think that cheating on admission SAT's , as outlined in these indictments , would exclude engineering? Not saying they aren't....just don't think we know yet.

ETA ..this is not about whether these kids were qualified, or not , to be accepted to these Universities in the programmes they wanted.....it's about their parents

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Ann

Chase, I'm not following your comment or what you are questioning. I'm saying a student who isn't capable of pulling off a high math score (on their own) on an SAT or ACT test won't survive an engineering program. They won't cruise through engineering school with Cs (like an Arts and Parties student might cruse through their degree). The engineering student would flunk. So, if their math scores on either of those tests weren't high but were changed to look higher, the kid wouldn't cut it in the program.

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Becca Reese

Ann, are you assuming a Science degree? Someone like AOC could rise to the top in an Arts program.

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Swampy



Tim O'Brien‏Verified account @TimOBrien 3h3 hours ago

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Also recalling great reporting from Trump biographer Gwenda Blair, that President Trump was only admitted to Wharton — after transferring from Fordham — as a special favor from an admissions officer who was an acquaintance of Trump’s brother, Freddy:

Tim O'Brien added,

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Swampy

Tim O'Brien‏Verified account @TimOBrien 3h3 hours ago

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And then there was that time in 1998, when Jared Kushner was starting to look at colleges, that his father, Charles Kushner, pledged $2.5 million to Harvard (which Jared later attended). Via Dan Golden for @ProPublica :

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Becca Reese

Ugh, differential equations and linear regression!

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Swampy


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My pal @dinabass noted 22 years ago in the Penn paper that President Trump stepped up his $ pledges to Wharton just around the time that Don Jr landed there — and long before Jr began his self-owning blitz on Twitter. (h/t @BrandyZadrozny)
https://twitter.com/brandyzadrozny/status/1105525117495529472?s=21 …

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Swampy

Suddenly remembering that string of pledges by your father to Penn/Wharton in the 1990s — totaling at least $1.5 million — that coincided with the 1996 and 2000 enrollment there of you and Ivanka respectively: http://www.thedp.com/article/2016/11/trumps-history-of-donating-to-penn …

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Becca Reese

Trying so hard to make this about orange man bad.

Orange man bad.

So bad.

Muh Wharton.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

USC has the reputation that $$$ makes the road smooth. Courtesy "C", indeed.

The daughters would have done just fine at USC years ago.

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maifleur01

My stepson's best friend lived in one school district and attended another. His mother would not move from where she was living. I have no idea why he chose that school district other than being suborn and thinking he would be able to do it. Family friends paid his fees and he continued there.

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Joaniepoanie

Donnie's no different than the people on that list upthread who paid for their kids to get into top schools. Maybe his name should be on the list....Tiffany just started at Georgetown Law....did she get in just because daddy is president? Maybe she's one Trump with a brain and got in on her own....we'll never know.

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Ann

Becca, yeah, Dershowitz was talking about how a student not up to the academic standards of the college they go to would have flunked out in the old days, but these days, everyone gets a participation award and flunking out is often no longer a concern. So, my point is that isn't true in, for example, an engineering degree. In a math class, you either understand it or you don't. No reasonable math teacher will give a student a C if they don't understand the material and can't prove it on their tests. I bet a college like MIT or Georgia Tech is not ending up with students whose parents cheated and paid to get them in.

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Becca Reese

Ann, I wonder who was looking the other way when athletic students like Loughlin's girls couldn't crew or erg to save their lives. Um...doesn't someone wonder how the heck they got in?

So how far does the corruption go?

Anyone who is an expert in their athletic field would pick up a lack of skill and form in a heartbeat.

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Ann

I have a child who applied to Stanford and we would have needed some financial aid for Stanford prices (which was info that was asked for on the application). She had extremely high SAT scores and a perfect math score on her ACT. She was also valedictorian of her high school class. She was not accepted to Stanford. Stories like this one today add some clarity to that situation. It was not a big deal because she went to a state university that we could afford, lol:) I didn't see the practicality of Stanford, but it was something important to her, so she tried.

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elvis

Can't wait to see the list of names charged. Anyone think they're a bunch of Hollywood conservatives?

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how2girl

Can’t wait to see the list of greedy facilitating fools who were quite happy to receive the money charged. Woe is me, just say no.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

elvis, I don't think there are a lot of Hollywood folks, the two women, Huffman & Laughlin. II don't think either husband was arrested.

In my town there is a doctor, radiation oncologist, who works for the V.A. HIs son is a senior in high school. That kid's college career is toast. I cannot imagine how the child is going to finish the school year. Beyond humiliating.

PS d_gw has the list posted upthread.

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catkinZ8a

Malia Obama's tennis coach caught up in the racketeering scam --no pun intended.

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Joaniepoanie

"Becca, yeah, Dershowitz was talking about how a student not up to the academic standards of the college they go to would have flunked out in the old days"

-------

Well, Trump didn't flunk out and there's no way he actually earned a degree in Econ as he claims.....he clearly doesn't know squat about Econ...daddy had to bail him out to the tune of $75 mil and how many failed businesses has he had?

No, daddy bought his degree and he's done the same for his kids. And a professor certainly might give a student a C if daddy has donated generously to the university and the administration tells them to pass them.

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T.W.

Lori Loughlin has been embroiled in an alleged school admissions scam before — on ‘Full House’

Lori Loughlin’s character faced a dilemma. Her two children had the chance to attend an elite school that promised to put their lives on the “fast track,” but there was only one problem: Their application wasn’t entirely accurate.

In a 1993 episode of the popular sitcom “Full House,” revived by social media users Tuesday, Becky Katsopolis, played by Loughlin, and her husband Jesse (John Stamos) are forced to navigate the line between wanting what’s best for your children and taking things too far as they try to get their young twin sons accepted to a prestigious preschool. When Jesse realizes his boys likely won’t get in, he blatantly lies on the school’s application, sending the couple down a path of deception until Becky, known in the show for her prudence, puts a stop to the shenanigans. She tells administrators the truth, even at the risk of jeopardizing her children’s futures.

“I know you want what’s best for them, but you know what?” Becky says to Jesse near the end of the episode. “Maybe the fast track isn’t it. Nicky and Alex are normal, healthy kids and whatever track they’re on, they seem to be doing okay.”

She later adds, “When they’re ready to go to preschool, we’ll find the right one and we’ll do everything we can to encourage them.”

Fast-forward more than 20 years and Loughlin found herself in strikingly similar situation, only this time it was real life. In 2016, Loughlin’s eldest daughter was preparing to apply for colleges, but federal prosecutors now allege that instead of leaving things to chance, the actress and her husband, fashion designer Mossimo Giannulli, used bribes to get their daughter into the University of Southern California. They also allegedly did the same for their other daughter, who enrolled in USC last fall.

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terezosa / terriks

Louglin's daughter, Olivia Jade is apparently a YouTube "star" who really has no interest in school.



https://youtu.be/lveMkZc-NRE?t=318

"I don't know how much of school I'm gonna attend," she said in the video, which was filmed before she headed to college at the University of Southern California. "But I'm gonna go in and talk to my deans and everyone, and hope that I can try and balance it all. But I do want the experience of, like, game days, partying…I don't really care about school, as you guys all know."

https://www.etonline.com/lori-loughlins-daughter-olivia-said-she-didnt-really-care-about-school-before-heading-to-college

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adoptedbyhounds

DH had a minor procedure at the dermatology clinic yesterday. He said this cheating scandal was THE topic during his visit. There was a lot of talk and disgust expressed by doctors and staff over parents ensuring their unqualified children got the slots denied to far more qualified students who worked their tails off to earn them.


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chase_gw

I suspect Louglin's daughter's attitude may be fairly typical of the attitudes of most of the kids involved. These children are obviously used to living a privledged life with no need to be accountable or responsible.



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Swampy

It's just as offensive that the rich buy their way in. Either way an unqualified student ( like trump ) is admitted due to $$.

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Ziemia(6a)
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Ann

Lol, I think some of the Dems here might end up voting for Trump in 2020 because their obsession with him is simply too strong:) I'm not sure there is a single topic that wouldn't lead to Trump. Heck, we could start a thread about women's shoe styles and it would take some of you to Trump within the first few comments.

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chase_gw

You're right........he's a " heel"

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Ann

Probably about as clever as I could pull off (and clever is certainly not my thing). Certainly not equal to Margie's wit, but she's not always here when we need her:)

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bry911

I'm saying a student who isn't capable of pulling off a high math score (on their own) on an SAT or ACT test won't survive an engineering program. They won't cruise through engineering school with Cs

Unfortunately, I suspect that you are not correct.

First, it is doubtful that these students cheated such that a completely incapable student ended up in an elite program. The competition for these schools is fierce and so only the supposed "best" are chosen, but in reality we are used to seeing students whose actual ability and performance isn't predicted by their test scores or High School GPA. A fair amount of college, even engineering, is application and not ability.

Furthermore, the national average for engineering students is well below the standards that these schools are admitting, and the material is largely the same there as the average engineering program. You are largely paying for the questions asked by the student next to you, and the name recognition of the institution.

Finally, the tricks to get through tough courses, such as thermodynamics, are not new and are well known. You take the course until the drop date, drop the course but still attend the lectures (your professor is not going to know and really they don't even care). You then know the material that you need to work on and pay a tutor over the break, when you come back the next semester and take the course. It is fairly easy to manage a C in that class.

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bry911

Arts and Parties, however, most definitely offers cruise through opportunities.

I question the veracity of this statement also. While that might well be true at some mid tier schools where the focus is on getting students through the program with a set of marketable skills, my experience is that in elite schools a B.A. often takes as much, or more work, than a B.S.

The amount of writing done in some of those liberal arts courses is staggering. Even in my courses, students are required to do a short weekly research paper, with a longer final paper. In a writing heavy Philosophy or History class students will regularly write ten short research papers and a couple of longer ones. It is easy for a single class to require 75 to 100 pages per semester.

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Joaniepoanie

Ann

I'm not sure there is a single topic that wouldn't lead to Trump.

---------

Why wouldn't this topic lead to Trump? It's common knowledge now his father paid for his degree and he did the same for his kids. Even one of Trump's professors came out and said he was the dumbest student he ever had.

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chase_gw


"Arts and Parties"

Judging people on the degree they hold or the programmes they choose is judgemental beyond the pale.

My daughter has a BA, graduated with honours, Deans list in her last year. She has a fabulous job , making 6 figures before age 30. There is so much more to education than the 2 or 3 letters that represent your degree.

My best employees were those with broad degrees followed by some level of specialized post grad studies...not necessarily Masters.

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bleusblue2

Arts and Parties, however, most definitely offers cruise through opportunities.

The difference: those who fake it in science or engineering may endanger lives once they start to practice in their profession. Those who graduate in the arts don't breeze through. Their areas of interest can be demanding and they don't have more time to party than other students. Those in the sciences might not be able to get a passing grade in many arts courses. "Cruise through opportunities"? You know the joke -- what do you call the person who is at the bottom of his class in medical school? -- Doctor.

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SpringIsComing

Dershowitz was talking about how a student not up to the academic standards of the college they go to would have flunked out in the old days, but these days, everyone gets a participation award and flunking out is often no longer a concern.

Absolutely not true. Trump and Bush were perfect examples of this happening "in the old days". Neither was smart enough to go to the schools they went to on their own merits. Family money and influence got them in, and probably contributed to them graduating. The difference is their fathers did the old school legal way.

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Swampy

It takes a Democrat to propose a solution

© Greg Nash

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee, announced Wednesday he will introduce legislation that ends tax breaks for contributions to colleges and universities before or during enrollment of the donor’s child.

The announcement comes a day after more than 40 people were chargedin a college admissions scam where parents allegedly bribed coaches to recruit students for athletic programs or paid people to help cheat on college entrance exams.

“Yesterday's headlines about the wealthiest Americans buying access to our elite colleges and universities is just a new version of an old story,” Wyden said in a statement. “The federal government shouldn’t be perpetuating this system by awarding tax breaks to these contributions, contributions that return to the donor a benefit of inestimable value.”

“This is yet another example of how the tax code helps the wealthiest Americans get even further ahead, and I will soon be introducing legislation that would end the tax break for donations made to schools before or during the enrollment of children of the donor’s family," he added. "Middle-class families don’t have access to this back door for their children. If the wealthy want to grease the skids, they shouldn’t be able to do so at the expense of American taxpayers.”


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elvis

So you are saying that as long as these people don't get a tax break, their blatant alleged criminal activity was okay?

Um, no. Nice spin, though.

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SpringIsComing

Clearly not what was said. Not even close.

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bry911

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee, announced Wednesday he will introduce legislation that ends tax breaks for contributions to colleges and universities before or during enrollment of the donor’s child.

What a spectacularly stupid idea.

I know it isn't fair that rich people get to buy their way into schools, but the vast majority of schools aren't over-endowed institutions without any budget concerns. A million dollar donation to a school is about $50,000 annually in tuition aid for students who couldn't attend otherwise.

Every year we accept students who don't attend because they can't afford it, and so they end up at a mid tier state school. I will happily spend extra time working with your rich son who shouldn't be there for a few years if it means one more deserving kid gets to go every year.

ETA: Not to mention it wouldn't even have stopped it. They didn't donate money to schools they paid bribes to people to make it happen. The 501(c)3 they paid money to wasn't a college or university but a not-for-profit service firm. And as crooked as it absolutely was, it pales in comparison to the abuses in the not-for-profit debt reorganization industry.

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chase_gw

Agree......does anyone think if person donates huge amounts while their kids are age 5 until 17 then are prohibited when their kids hit enrollment age the University will " forget" ?

If the intent is no donations from the time you have a child until they are enrolled in a university that is a huge hit to universities who count on donations for all the right reasons.

There are other ways, starting with the sports programmes.

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bry911

There are other ways, starting with the sports programmes.

Bingo! Why is a kid who couldn't make it through the normal admissions process granted admission because he plays soccer or rows crew? Why are the coaches not forced to recruit teams from the admitted student roster rather than giving that valuable spot to someone who is not academically deserving.

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Ziemia(6a)

I'd be against the Wyden idea just thinking about the work created to track and verify.

Giving money doesn't guarantee anything from the school.

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chase_gw

Need to clarify...I am talking about regular admission based on sports participation. I do think there is room for sports scholarships as long as the academic credentials are there.

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elvis

Usually to we don't get content comments...

Sorry, chase. What does that mean?

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chase_gw

Sorry you didn't understand.

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SpringIsComing

I agree that the proposal is not a solution to the problem. It hurts more than it helps.

I also agree that schools admitting athletes that don't meet admission requirements is wrong because it takes a spot from someone who does. The only counter argument one could make is that some sports generate significant money for the school, and in theory that can be used to support a deserving student who cannot afford tuition? Not sure I'm buying my own argument! ;-)

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T.W.

A tweet made the rounds in the community of first-generation and low-income students at Princeton University: “wow, it turns out money was the real Affirmative Action all along!”

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Ann

Bry, Dershowitz certainly agrees with your opinion about admissions due to "sports". Me too.

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palisades_

I’m very glad the frauds and bribes are exposed. Hope justice will be served well to those on the list, along with the students involved. In the list above the majority individuals are from California land of the Democrats hmmm. Life has never been fair to students without family connections and influences, so discovery like this will help college and university officials to take a closer look into their admissions review process and make appropriate revisions.


For a long while colleges and universities go after the rich to get money for their school/programs. So whoever donates the most would have a building, a school, or a college named after that person.

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Izzy Mn(4)

I'm sure it's been a "unspoken" thing for decades that Universities admit students due to parents giving donations. It really is not a surprise. How long have we heard about alot of college football players that never attended classes but passed. And many that really didn't get education,not really.

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arthurm2015(Micro-Climate, Zone 10b Sydney, Australia)

I know a guy who is attending Uni over there. No donations that I know of but he is certainly good at his designated "sport'. A guy who will probably benefit from the experience.

Not saying what sport, because that would be unwise.

The Uni. where my daughter obtained her "lowly BA degree" has a long history of supporting a particular sport.

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lily12

I love how the right is saying the "Hollywood elite" when Lori Laughlin is a conservative Christian Republican. Suck on that. I think it's disgraceful what these people did to get their privileged kids into the perfect school. I remember my grandson wanted Georgetown and took his SAT's a few times. Although he did really well the acceptance rate is crazily low. He did get into a very prestigious college without any bribes. His parents did pay for him to attend a prep SAT course. tRump isn't tweeting about this because it's way too close to home. His father paid off schools to accept him. How could anyone as stupid as he is actually get there on his own merit? Jared's dad paid off Harvard because it was reported he was so mediocre that his fellow classmates couldn't believe he was accepted. And tRump gave big donations to get his three idiot kids accepted.

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Swampy

Lori Laughlin is a conservative Christian Republican.


Criminal activity and bribes

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dandyfopp

Still nothing from Donnie? I guess something about cheating your way into school and a massive FBI bust made his twitter fingers cramp up.


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Cookie8

So, since it is actually wide open now, do you think loopholes will be made for this culture or will an occupy-type movement come forward?

There just seems to be more and more dividing the uber wealthy from society. It's good that it is finally being somewhat acknowledged - from a legal perspective.

This group has no problem paying so much for bribery - guess that's why they need so many loopholes when it comes to filing taxes. How does one develop with parents like this? Well, I kinda have an idea.

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maifleur01

A comment about BA vs. BS. While criteria is schools specific and times have changed I elected to go for the BS because the requirements for the BA were stricter. At that time you had to have advanced classes in two different foreign languages to obtain a BA. Although I can read with dictionary/web help now several languages there is no way that I can speak more than a few words in any of them. There were several other things but that was the main one.

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chase_gw

A BA usually means extensive writing assignments, exams, papers etc. Generally, the difference in the writing skills of those in my department who had BA's was markedly superior to those with science and math based degrees.

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Stan Areted

Then there are those that excel at both.

Usually they're better human beings, as well, in temperament and character--in my observation.

It would be interesting to study people that possess extraordinary intellect with science and math, are creative in music and the arts, and also the best writers.

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Kitchenwitch111

What really gets me is that these kids are from very rich families, with access to vast support systems and high-up contacts in the world. They basically have everything so why would attending an elite college be necessary? It’s not like they wouldn’t get a job without an Ivy League degree.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Status, Kitchenwitch.

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Izzy Mn(4)

So they can blog it about and go to the college parties and college sports games with the other rich kids. Just another designer handbag shoe status thing. Not that all rich kids fall into that category but it's obvious some of them do.

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Chi

My economics degree was only offered as a BA. I thought that was interesting as it was an almost fully math-based degree. I only had one or two classes where essays were required in the degree program.

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Stan Areted

My economics degree was only offered as a BA. I thought that was interesting as it was an almost fully math-based degree. I only had one or two classes where essays were required in the degree program.


I have noticed similar degree offerings, years ago and fairly recently, as well.

Apparently there is no uniform criteria for BA and BS.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

WRT to why do people whose children "have it made" without th college prestige college degree push for/bribe/cheat for that anyway, my first answer would be what has already been said here- the prestige and the parties, the connections.

But there is a second answer as well, the fancy degree gives the whiff of belonging to the meritocracy even when you don't. Bush's degrees conferred an intellectual/academic respectability that masked an oligarch.

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Ann

OMG, there are so many responses to a few of these comments I started and backed out. It appears some must have some interesting views of their own strengths and weaknesses.

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mary_md7

Certainly, Boston Brahmins, Wall Streeters, other business elites, and politicians have been getting favorable admissions (and likely unearned degrees) for centuries. I'm sure it was happening at Oxford when it was founded in 1096 and the Royals wanted their kids to go there.

As much as I don't like that, this feels worse. Faking athletic photos, bribing coaches and test proctors, etc. seems shadier than the university donation.

And what is Loughlin thinking? She allegedly spent more to get her daughter into school than 4 years of tuition, books, room, and board. The daughter who posted the video saying she is interested in games and partying but not interested in classes. And accounts of her daughter's web income as an "influencer" (eyeroll) are that it's half a million in one year.

I'd say, pursue all the parents, coaches, proctors, etc., and expel the students.

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Ziemia(6a)

"They basically have everything so why would attending an elite college be necessary? "

They can buy the house, car, vacation, dinner, art, wine, etc that they want. Buying entrance to uni is logical for some.

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mtnrdredux_gw

Econ is an interesting one. I see more and more cases of it being moved into the business schools and given as a BS degree. In some cases it is offered in both the business school and the liberal arts, with different emphases.

As for the poster who said they are "finally admitting" that donations can help secure admissions, that is not a new admission at all. In fact, the term used for wealthy donors "Dev A" or "development cases," is well known when describing the pool of admissions.

It does seem to me that, if one can show a strong correlation between donations and admission, all else equal, then it is not truly a donation under IRS rules and no deduction should be allowed. That just means the net price of the practice changes, it does not stop the practice.

In the materials I read, at least one of the students fraudulently admitted to Georgetown graduated. Most of them I think it is too early to tell. Admissions people at elite HS and Colleges readily admit that they turn down many, many kids who are entirely qualified. (Even for applicants with perfect SAT scores, Stanford rejects nearly 70% of them, vs 96% of everyone else) That means some part of this system, should by all rights, include a lottery. The stress and wasted time spent on the college admissions endeavour is downright criminal in and of itself. Like Ivies telling kids every admission is "holistic" when they know there are minimums to hit, and just want to 1)collect app fees and 2)bring down their admissions rate to make themselves ever more desirable. Schools in Canada and Europe often publish minimum admission requirements. No voodoo.

As for sports and really all EC, it is ridiculous. These are schools, places of learning, remember? Sports teams should be fielded from admitted students, first things first. If that takes away some of the money from sports, it does so across the board, and sets a new normal for everything from facilities to salaries to amenities and, yes tuition. But that might not even happen. There will still be sports, if at a somewhat lower level, yet who says that means no one shows up to games?

Maybe selling heroin would also bring in profits to allow schools to educate the underserved, but that is not their business, either. Other countries think our focus on sports is bizarre-o. Because it is! It all started with Harvard trying to solve its "Jewish problem" (too many of them,darn!) by creating an admissions hurdle they could not meet (not many Jews rowing at the country club in the early 30s).

The current system is unfair and inefficient. The best and the brightest have to spend time, like it or not, perfecting their backhand and volunteering. Is this the best allocation of resources for our country's future?



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mary_md7

chase_gw, it may not have to do with "politics" but it likely does have to do with institutions that receive federal funds (let's face it, that's all of them) having to abide by various rules and regulations or risk loss of federal funding or fines. Among those rules are no doubt some having to do with admissions.

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tryingtounderstand

“Other countries think our focus on sports is bizarre-o. Because it is! It all started with Harvard trying to solve its "Jewish problem" (too many of them,darn!) by creating an admissions hurdle they could not meet (not many Jews rowing at the country club in the early 30s).”

mtn, Just learned something new. There is a huge difference between canadian and American schools with respect to sport integration in schools. Yes, in Canada we do have school sports as well a community sports. It was not until we moved south that we realized the extent to which sports proliferates throughout the entire education system. At times, it appeared that education of itself was secondary to sports. I was surprised to see this, even at the elementary levels.

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Rina

Coming to this late, but it's a subject close to my heart.

It's silly to pretend that real studies in the arts or humanities are superior or inferior to studies in the sciences or business/economics. In the university I attended, admission requirements for the latter were lower than the other two, as I remember. (Yes, memory a tad shaky by now.) And, I mean, holy moly, try working your way through Bertrand Russell, Wittgenstein, and Ayer. We did have, popularly speaking, a degree we called B Mrs, which involved getting into anything and nabbing yourself a husband. But that was a looong time ago. We also had a totally unfair campus joke: "I couldn't even spell 'engineer' when I started at ****, now I are one."

Here's an oddity: BA students were expected (I'm talking about a university in South Africa) to do at least one course in a science subject. The soft option was genetics. I suspect that is no longer true.

But seriously, this is not a political issue. "Lori Laughlin is a conservative Christian Republican" made me giggle. And of course others on that very long list would be Democrats. And Republicans. This is about education, what we want it to do for us, how we want our young people to acquire training that suits who they are, what they really can do. And we want that to happen fairly.

I am delighted that this case -- these cases -- are achieving such a very high profile. I bet most educational institutions in the country are checking themselves out right now, and the practice will decrease rapidly. At least for a while. Human beings have such very short memories.

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blfenton

Those minimum requirements for applying at Canadian universities don't mean anything. The local business school has, if I remember correctly, a minimum requirement of a 72% average but if you don't have at least a 96% and have not started up your own non-profit (ok that's a little bit of sarcasm) don't bother applying.

David Sidoo, who is a a parent on the list of those charged is a major donor to one of our local universities and his sons went to a very elite local private school. The school is investigating, based on given information, whether someone wrote a provincial exam for one of his kids. So you do wonder, how insidious is this scandal and at what level did it start.

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bry911

They basically have everything so why would attending an elite college be necessary?

Labels matter. Connections matter. That is the sad truth.

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ItsAGoodDay

There will still be sports, if at a somewhat lower level, yet who says that means no one shows up to games?

Students and alum will still show up to games. That's not where the money is. The money is in being part of the big conferences and TV contracts.

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bry911

Then there are those that excel at both.

Usually they're better human beings, as well, in temperament and character--in my observation.

It would be interesting to study people that possess extraordinary intellect with science and math, are creative in music and the arts, and also the best writers.

I posted this on the other recent thread about education that got poofed.

--------

From my perspective one of the biggest problems in education today is the STEM myth that the U.S. government (I suppose many governments) has peddled for years. The fact is that only about 25% of STEM graduates work in STEM fields and only about half of those working in STEM fields have STEM degrees.

For several generations we have pushed our brightest youth towards the STEM fields without ever really questioning the value of doing so. Parents start training their kids for engineering jobs before elementary school and any young person who shows any degree of intellect is pushed relentlessly towards STEM. Of course, STEM degrees perform well, but in reality the brightest youth tend to perform well anyway. Start controlling for all of those external pressures and the advantage of STEM degrees largely falls away.

The question must become if we let our best and brightest go wherever their talents take them would we better off? I question the value of another engineer if the cost is another Beethoven or another Hemingway.

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mtnrdredux_gw

(Harvard President) Lowell attempted to institute quotas on the amount of Jewish students admitted to the College, framing it as a method to curb “increasing” anti-Semitism among the student body,....“If [the] number [of Jews] should become 40 percent of the student body, the race feeling would become intense. If every college in the country would take a limited proportion of Jews, I suspect we should go a long way toward eliminating race feeling among students,” Lowell wrote.

Lowell—who wanted to avoid further controversy—opted to write letters in 1922 advocating for a new admissions system ... that would “reduce the number of Jews by talking about other qualifications than those of admission examination.”

The “character and fitness” criteria of admission revolved around “five pillars”: academic promise, personal qualities, health and athleticism, geographic distribution, and Harvard parentage.

This decision is how we got to where we are today. Harvard led, so of course everyone else followed. It has evolved and spawns entire industries and taken up the spare change and spare hours of many a family. All those pee-wee soccer leagues, violin lessons, and volunteer corps. Not to say any of those activities are not entirely worthwhile. But the demand for them and level of participation in them has been completely distorted. A lot of parents don't even understand why suddenly it is de rigeur to do all of these things. What could be done with all this time and money if we adopted a system where admission to academic institutions was based on ... wait for it ...academics?

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bry911

It does seem to me that, if one can show a strong correlation between donations and admission, all else equal, then it is not truly a donation under IRS rules and no deduction should be allowed.

While I don't disagree with your logic, couldn't we say the exact same thing about donations to churches?

Maybe we should just say all payments to not-for-profit institutions should be tax deductible even if for admission.

The stress and wasted time spent on the college admissions endeavour is downright criminal in and of itself. Like Ivies telling kids every admission is "holistic" when they know there are minimums to hit

I don't think this is necessary nor do I think it is necessarily true. I question how many students who are truly below a minimum actually apply. Harvard has students attend in the 18-23 ACT range, so the minimum would largely be low enough to be of little use.

Anecdotally I know of a time when a student was admitted solely on the basis of a stunning piece of intellectual property she created (being intentionally vague). We did relay our concerns to the student, but admission was a foregone conclusion.


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Swampy

I tend to trust Pew

1.STEM workers enjoy a pay advantage compared with non-STEM workers with similar levels of education

  1. While STEM workers tend to be highly educated, roughly a third have not completed a bachelor’s or higher-level degree.

3.About half of workers with college training in a STEM field are working in a non-STEM job. (many work in finance, banking or management)

4.STEM training in college is associated with higher earnings, whether working in a STEM occupation or not.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/09/7-facts-about-the-stem-workforce/





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lily12

My grandson qualified very well academically but what got him in a top-rated college was his outstanding athletic abilities. If anyone had superimposed their kids face on the body of my grandson I'd be livid. As one parent said ,it took years of training to get to where they were. My grandson runs 20 miles many times a week.

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bry911

I tend to trust Pew

I tend to read the data and decide if that is pertinent to the discussion. Here is what PEW said about their study (emphasis mine).

This analysis uses a broad definition of the STEM workforce and is based solely on occupation, as classified in the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey. As defined, here, the STEM workforce includes 74 occupations including computer and mathematical occupations, engineers and architects, physical scientists, life scientists, and health-related jobs such as healthcare practitioners and technicians (but not health care support workers such as nursing aides and medical assistants). As such, it includes workers with associate degrees and other credentials as well as those with bachelor’s and advanced degrees.

There is no standard definition of STEM workers. Other analyses of STEM workers include somewhat different occupations (see, for example, the Economics and Statistics Administration of the U.S. Department of Commerce). The National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics focuses on those with a college degree or more education in their surveys; UNESCO studies on global diversity issues in STEM focus even more narrowly on researchers with advanced degrees working in STEM.

Including healthcare practitioners and technicians as STEM occupations has broad ramifications for the key findings. There are 9.0 million health-related jobs, comprising 52% of the STEM workforce. Healthcare practitioners and technicians are largely women, thus their inclusion boosts the overall representation of women in the STEM workforce. These health-related occupations also have somewhat larger shares of black workers and smaller shares of Asian workers compared with other STEM occupations, which affects the racial and ethnic composition of the overall STEM workforce. Among college-educated workers who majored in a STEM field during their undergraduate education, those who majored in health professions are significantly more likely to work in a STEM occupation, so their inclusion increases figures on the retention of STEM-trained workers.

---

I prefer the commerce department estimates (which for some reason is not linkable right now) but it removes obvious administrative position and many of the medical associates degrees. According to the PEW study the tech support guy who follows a phone script when you call about your computer not working is a STEM job.

STEM workers enjoy a pay advantage compared with non-STEM workers with similar levels of education

Again, this is nothing new. Additionally, STEM degrees tend to earn more than non-STEM degrees. However, the question becomes about a confirmation bias.

If 90% of the smartest kids in America are pushed into STEM fields then you are going to get a field that does well. However, the question becomes are we making great writers mediocre engineers?

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bry911

Pew also noted this...

"57 percent of survey respondents pointed out that one main problem of STEM is lack of students' concentration in learning."

What better evidence do you need that students are being pushed into STEM fields that they are largely not interested in?

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

This scandal, plus the Harvard discrimination suit ruling we await should make for some interesting developments in the world of college admissions.

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mtnrdredux_gw

The money is in being part of the big conferences and TV contracts.

I know nothing about this subject, but again, as long as all schools had to abide by the rules, what would really change? The level of play would be somewhat lower but if that is true across the board, the rivalries are just as fierce. I don't see a scenario where they can't still earn money off of sports.

18-23 ATC

Yes, we all know there are outliers, which allow these colleges to pretend it is holistic and anyone should apply. But the point still stands, only in extraordinary circumstances does someone like that get it, just look at Naviance data. And if you have extraordinary circumstances, you usually know it.


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Cookie8


Why do these people pretend...and talk soooo much!

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ItsAGoodDay

I know nothing about this subject, but again, as long as all schools had to abide by the rules, what would really change?

I'm certainly no expert on this, but I think there are schools where their athletes do meet their admission requirements because their admission requirements are very low. There are other schools that want to play in their league because the money is hard to resist. So they admit athletes that will allow them to compete in that league but do not meet the admission standard.

Doing that takes away spots from academically qualified students.

On the other hand, it brings in a lot of money for the school that would hopefully be used to benefit academically qualified students in need of tuition assistance.

Just trying to look at both sides. I don't know the right answer.

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elvis

Why do these people pretend...and talk soooo much!

cookie, she pretends for a living.

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T.W.

Still nothing from Donnie on this. How odd.

Hits too close to home, I guess

Did his father buy Trump's admission to Fordham or Penn?

I wonder if he paid to get his kids into Georgetown and the University of Pennsylvania?

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