Petty Personal Rage

Swampy

My starting point is a weekend tweet from Representative Devin Nunes of California, who headed the House Intelligence Committee until the House changed hands after the midterms. In that role, he basically acted as Donald Trump’s stonewaller in chief, doing everything he could to prevent any real investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Vladimir Putin.

But his tweet wasn’t about that. It was about a waitress who, citing the “straw police,” asked his dining party if they wanted straws. “Welcome to Socialism in California!” Nunes thundered.

If this seems like a weird aberration — he wasn’t even denied a straw, just asked if he wanted one — you need to realize that rage explosions over seemingly silly things are extremely common on the right. By all accounts, the biggest applause line at the Conservative Political Action Conference — eliciting chants of “U-S-A, U-S-A!” — was the claim that Democrats are coming for your hamburgers, just like Stalin. (They aren’t, and for the record, Stalin was a mass murderer, but objectively pro-burger.)

By the way, this isn’t a new phenomenon. I’m sure readers can come up with many examples, but I happen to remember a 2009 blog post by the right-wing activist Erick Erickson that was practically an incitement to violence: “At what point do the people tell the politicians to go to hell? At what point do they get off the couch, march down to their state legislator’s house, pull him outside, and beat him to a bloody pulp?”

And what was the source of his rage? The observation that dishwasher detergent doesn’t work quite as well without the phosphates.

What do these things have in common? All of them involve cases where individual choices impose costs on other people. Plastic straws really are a source of ocean pollution. While nobody is planning to ban beef, flatulent cows really are an important source of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas. And phosphates contribute to toxic algae blooms.

But the rage seems to come from the suggestion that these costs imposed on others mean that white men — it does seem to always be white men — should consider changing their behavior, even a bit, in the public interest. Which brings me to Captain Marvel.

For those blissfully unaware of the issue, the latest superhero movie features a female protagonist, and the actress who plays her has expressed some mildly feminist views. So?

Well, for a significant number of men all of this is apparently extremely threatening. Mobs swamped internet sites like rottentomatoes.com with negative reviews before the movie opened, i.e., before they could even have seen it; YouTube filled up with attack videos and predictions that the film would be a disastrous failure.

Marvel rage recognizably drew on the same pathological pettiness as straw rage and hamburger rage. As it happens, the movie appears to be a big hit and is receiving favorable audience scores. This shows that the men afflicted with this syndrome are a fairly small minority.

But it’s not a minority without influence. Nunes was, for a time, among the most important politicians in Washington. CPAC sets the agenda for the party that controls the White House and the Senate. The recently revealed radio rants of Fox News’s Tucker Carlson could have come straight out of one of those bizarre anti-Brie Larson screeds.

Con't (ETA: By Paul Krugman, thank you Carol for the correction)

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Swampy

The point is that demented anger is a significant factor in modern American political life — and overwhelmingly on one side. All that talk about liberal “snowflakes” is projection; if you really want to see people driven wild by tiny perceived slights and insults, you’ll generally find them on the right. Nor is it just about racism and misogyny. Although these are big components of the phenomenon, I don’t see the obvious connection to hamburger paranoia.

Just to be clear: To paraphrase John Stuart Mill, I’m not saying that most conservatives are filled with rage over petty things. What I’m saying instead is that most of those filled with such rage are conservatives, and they supply much of the movement’s energy. Not to put too fine a point on it, pathological pettiness almost surely put Donald Trump over the top in the 2016 election.

At this point you probably want to know what I think we should do about it. The truth is that I don’t know. I guess there’s some case for using taxes rather than regulations to control pollution, since you won’t be telling people directly what to do. But one suspects that the people I’m talking about will still find something to be hysterical about.

At the very least, however, we should realize what’s happening. It may be comforting to believe that politics is driven by more or less rational considerations of costs and benefits. But the reality is that a lot of it is driven by unreasoning rage.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/opinion/captain-marvel-republican-rage.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

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jerzeegirl(9b)

All that talk about liberal “snowflakes” is projection; if you really want to see people driven wild by tiny perceived slights and insults, you’ll generally find them on the right.

Mob mentality is a real thing - a primitive reaction to a perceived attack. The pitchforks and torch crowd (RWNJs) derives excitement and meaning from their anger because they are thrilled by it. It replaces something they lack in their everyday existence. By focusing on the petty, they don't have to think about the big. These people have very small minds and very little room for compassion.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

From Paul Krugman - thanks for sharing this.

I appreciate his articulating something I've been pondering for quite some time now.

And that petty outrage is demonstrated daily in posts here, isn't it? Notice which topics get the most attention and discussion from our conservative members.

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dandyfopp

The crying over Captain Marvel is just plain pathetic but par for the course.

Men so fragile that almost anything is a threat to their masculinity. Being offered a straw is some imagined threat to freedom and liberty.

Change and loss of control terrifies those who have always held power and rank in society.

Suck it up, buttercups.


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cattyles

Thank you for posting the article, swampy. Nailed it.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

" he wasn’t even denied a straw, just asked if he wanted one "

I wish everyone would ask rather than assume people want one. Why should my drink show up with a straw already in it at a sit down restaurant?

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Swampy

Men so fragile that almost anything is a threat to their masculinity. Being offered a straw is some imagined threat to freedom and liberty.

Those who cry the most about males being soft are so soft. They can't take a different opinion or different clothes or different hair style at all.

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redsox_gw

Back in the day, men didn't change diapers, men didn't attend school conferences. So wimpy to be included in your child's life, right? Maybe this generation will actually have male role models like none of the prior did. Being a man is more than getting up to go to work. We all do that.

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jerzeegirl(9b)

If people realized how juvenile they look sucking liquid up a straw, they would simply stop doing it.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

IMO, it's more about creating as many wedge issues to divert and divide people than anything else. These mouthpieces get paid to do that. I consider them provocateurs.

And the 'regular' folks so eager to pile on? Those provocateurs hope that will happen.

And of course, you can't overlook reports that Russian trolls are eager to, and very good at, amplifying such things.

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petalique

Absolutely right, carol.

As for plastic straws, snowflakins need them so their mouths don't melt.

Interesting article in The Atlantic about Recycling--piling up because some countries are declining to recycle our paper and plastic. ? Related to grifter trump's disruption of trade?

I've noticed that a lot of non-profit and corporate entities generate a tremendous amount of plastic and paper waste and do not recycle. Examples: hospitals, meal venders. Even some residential participants are not mindful of recycling only clean, washed materials.

I'd better stop writing and thinking about this subject; it can trigger my exasperation with the volumes of lazy, transactional humans and entities. Convenience and profit can be toxic.

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Stan Areted

Why be exasperated over the fact that you can't control the behavior of others?

What a waste!

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numbersjunkie

The straw scandal makes me think about the days when hotels stopped washing towels and bedding every night when guests were staying for multiple nights. You always had the option. I don't remember that causing an uproar at the time, but maybe social media wasn't so popular back then. Or politics wasn't so divisive. Or both.

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josephene_gw

Swampy, thanks for posting this.

remember when people chanted

”save a tree”?

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catkinZ8a

PROPAGANDA...SMEAR TACTICS...RAGE/OUTRAGE! Just a few of the Democrat's new favorite buzzwords--look for them in a political post near you!

Did I miss any?

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catkinZ8a

HERE'S THE LEFT'S DESCRIPTION OF RAGE, LOL.


Devin Nunes‏Verified account @DevinNunes

FollowFollow @DevinNunes

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At restaurant tonight waitress asks if we want straws. Says she has to ask now in fear of “THE STRAW POLICE”. Welcome to Socialism in California!

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Kathy

What is so hard to sacrifice a little for the betterment of the universe? Entitlement is so angry at every little notion they might have to give up something, even when it is needless.

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Fuhgetabauti

Leave it up to Democrats they'll sacrifice you little by little straight back to caveman days.

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Kathy

Plastic is damaging animals in the ocean. If we don’t take steps to rectify the damage Mother Nature will purge humans. Make your choice.

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Stan Areted

Leave it up to Democrats they'll sacrifice you little by little straight back to caveman days.


Yes, when the elite socialists have taken away your clubs, redistributed your foraging and food to the sloths laying around the cave, and sent more people to your cave.


Death by peck and peck, little decisions you can no longer make--plastic bags straws, toilet size, light bulbs. Peck. Peck. Peck.

It's not about savings or ecology--it's about control.

Peck. Peck. Peck.


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Kathy

It is about common sense not control. The control is the reluctance to admit we are destroying the universe.

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catticusmockingbird

If we don’t take steps to rectify the damage Mother Nature will purge humans.

Let her start with the ones who are willfully ignorant.

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Ziemia(6a)

Yup. We now have rage over a possible limit to access single use straws.

From those who mistake revulsion for fear.

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Kathy

Numbersjuckie

Yes, it’s obvious. There’s not enough conservatives so they have to fudge the numbers. Fake as many Trump supporters are.

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catticusmockingbird

Numbers, nothing new. Just the same old game. Ignore.

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Fuhgetabauti

Plastic is damaging animals in the ocean. If we don’t take steps to
rectify the damage Mother Nature will purge humans. Make your choice.

Very little of the plastic ending up in the ocean comes from the US, if any. It's almost all from developing countries with poor sanitation like India and China. They have rivers of plastic flowing into the ocean. So banning straws in the US will accomplish nothing, except make Democrats look ridiculous.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

How can David Nunes be concerned about straws when there's rampant theft of goats in Fresno County??

In two months 63 goats have been stolen, and he's blathering about straws!

Get a grip, David, some of your constituents are experiencing real harm.

https://abc30.com/more-goats-stolen-latest-in-ongoing-fresno-county-livestock-thefts/5185288/

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catspat(aka)

Here in California, Nunes is a known idiot. Even his conservative hometown newspaper calls him an idiot. Making straws a political issue is just about his speed.

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gyr_falcon(Sunset 23)

Straw rage--that is funny. And could be applied to describe a range of out of proportion rages. Horrors, the inconvenience of having to ask for a straw if you want one!

OTOH, I'm also not a fan of belittling people that want a straw. Some people have sensitive teeth, and it hurts to drink iced beverages without a straw. A neighbor had a stroke, and does not have complete control over one side of her mouth; it is minor, but would be noticeable when drinking from a glass and having liquid running down her chin.

The last time I ate out, there was so much ice in my glass I requested a straw so that I wouldn't have to have ice cubes piled up to my nose to reach the liquid. lol I think I'll just order without ice from now on...but they will probably forget. In which case, I'll have to request a straw again.

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terezosa / terriks

In the past you were always given a bag when making purchases. Then you had a choice between paper and plastic. Now you are asked if you want a bag, and in an increasing number of localities that bag has a price. And somehow we all manage.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I second gyr's comments regarding beaches.

First good rain of the season and beaches are covered with tennis balls, plastic and styrofoam cups deposited from the storm drains.

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Fuhgetabauti

Meanwhile, while you bash Americans for using straws....




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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

Good to know that Nunes' idiocy is known beyond just California.

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cattyles

Goat trafficking for explicitly adorable YouTube videos.

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Fuhgetabauti



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petalique

Nancy, that goat theft! I sent the link to my goat buddy (Giles Goat Boy). Even in our small muni, a fellow lets his sheep and goats graze on a grassed over closed landfill (safe for the animals), and, yep, a couple of the young have been stollen. Geez.

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petalique

Yeah, no plastics produced in US or in the ocean debris. Oh, yeah.

Here’s a photo of a Cape Cod activist donning a suit of plastic tampon applicators. I really like this spirited variety of Act Up flavored activism. I first saw this in the book, “P Town” (never finished it — anyone care to have it?)



Jay Critchley

... mark the opening of the 9.5 mile Boston Sewage Out Fall Pipe into Massachusetts Bay, spewing 360,000,000 gallons of effluent per day into Provincetown


ETA old photo. In the US, a lot of this has been averted by corporations (under pressure from environmental groups) choosing degradable materials, and by sewage treatment plants catching more non-biodegradable waste.

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Kathy

Farbauti, US is continuing to the problem. Doing nothing is not a way to solve this problem.

Most of us don’t think of what happens to the plastic items we put in the recycling bin. It’s a matter of out of sight, out of mind. Some believe manufacturers turn them all into new products, but is that the case? What really happens after that plastic bottle leaves your hand? In truth, only 9.5% of all plastic in the U.S. is recycled. Surprisingly, 15% is burned for electricity or heat.

About one-third is exported. Of that, half ends up in China, but not for long. The rest goes to landfills, where it can take up to 500 years to breakdown. As it does, it turns into toxins which poison our land and water. Over time, a lot of our plastic makes its way into the ocean—8.8 million tons of it enter our oceans every year, to be exact. By then, it’s become microplastics, tiny beads mere millimeters long. These are a significant threat to the environment and are also very difficult to clean up.

Pretty soon, America may be putting a lot more of its own plastic into landfill. Beginning January 1, 2018, China plans to ban the import of yang laji or “foreign garbage,” including certain plastics and other materials that are unable to be recycled. The ban was filed this summer with the World Trade Organization. Beijing has listed 24 waste products that it says are a threat to China’s environment and public health.

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ubro(2a)

Meanwhile, while you bash Americans for using straws....

I am not sure where your photo is from but the plastic in it could have been produced in other countries and dumped. I recall a documentary done on how Canadian plastics are being dumped into other countries.


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Current Resident(z4 WI)

Too bad an interesting topic (petty personal rage) has devolved into expressions of... petty personal rage.

"Don't feed the trolls" - was good advice back at the dawn of the Internet, and its still good advice now.

Just say "Nyet"

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elvis

“Welcome to Socialism in California!” Nunes thundered.

"Thundered"?

Creative writing, I guess.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

If Nunes thinks that not automatically giving straws to restaurant patrons is socialism, he is even dimmer than his reputation suggests.


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Rina

I just can't make a connection between socialism and straws. Environmentalism and straws, yes. But one may be a capitalist and an environmentalist. So Nunes is a silly lad.

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terrene(5b MA)

Restricting the use of such minor products as plastic straws or plastic bags doesn't even begin to touch big waste issues. Such as micro-particulates and endocrine disruptors from plastic packaging, plastic fabrics, and cleaning products. Agricultural runoff creating toxic algae blooms, and an ever increasing dead zone at mouth of the Mississippi. How about lead bullets? Etc.

And the real biggie - each American responsible for avg. 16 tons of CO2 emitted into the atmosphere - along with all the concomitant pollution of extracting, transporting, and burning fossil fuels.

Imagine the rage that will be induced if people are required to make major lifestyle changes that cut to the heart of the American concept (delusion) of freedom.



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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Delighted to read that comment about how we cannot, should not strive to control others' behavior.

Haha - irony much?

And China stopped taking our trash some time ago. Now it is winding up in other countries that do not have adequate controls in place to keep it from contaminating their environment, since a lot gets burned.

FWIW, those 'rivers' of trash in the photos above could likely be of US origin.

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batyabeth

"Imagine the rage that will be induced if people are required to make
major lifestyle changes that cut to the heart of the American concept
(delusion) of freedom."

yup, this. It has GOT to start from the top, and from the bottom, and in the middle. Nothing else will work, and we will make those major lifestyle changes either from governmental regulation, or from social pressure, or both, but it will happen. Buckle up.

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Ziemia(6a)

The big plastic things can be readily grabbed (though where to dispose remains an issue). The microbits are dangerous and seemingly impossible to grab.

Fleece (as in *microfleece* clothing and sheeting) degrade in the laundry and go out with the waste water.

Maybe folks are picking on straws to salve guilt over single use cups.

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Swampy

I see that the article in the original post is being proven true by multiple SCREAMING posts today.


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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Ziemia nailed it. The campaign began as a means if raising people's consciousness about the issue.

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Kathy

If we Americans can’t even give up plastic straws, how will we handle the tough decisions?

BTW I don’t like the paper straws but I can tolerate them or none. It is a tiny tiny beginning to conserve.

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

I think folks are picking on straws because most people can relate to the experience of using a straw once and then throwing it away. It's also easy enough to *not* use a straw, for the vast majority of people. People have control over that, while they may not have much control over the clothes that are available for them to buy. It's easy enough to obtain a reusable straw and wash it too.

So that's an easy, very visible, very relatable way to grab people's attention and will have an impact, too.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Baby steps.

And I'm old enough to remember when paper straws were the only kind of drinking straws. Granted I was very young then...

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Swampy

Me too Carol

I'm old enough to remember Nixon and the gop supporting the EPA.

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patriciae_gw(07)

I am glad to see I am not the only one wondering about the link between straws and socialism as in say what?

"pathological pettiness" has a nice ring to it.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

For some reason we were discouraged from using straws even as children. Something my father thought was too prissy?

Who knew that my family would be in the vanguard.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Not only that, I recently learned that there was a proposal for universal basic income and Nixon was in support.

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ubro(2a)

carolb_w I was happy to see that at the A&W today, our drinks had paper straws, it seems they are making a comeback.

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elvis

"pathological pettiness" has a nice ring to it.

If you say so!

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cait1

I'm not screaming, I'm LAUGHING!

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam are the top 5 polluters with the US coming in at 20th on the list. That's not too bad considering the US is the 3rd most populous country in the world - and if dems have their way with open borders it'll soon be #1.

And we know the outrage at Nunes' sarcasm is blown way out of proportion.

As for this new Captainess Marvel, I don't want what were male super heroes feminized and I especially don't want female comic book super heroines to be preachy. YUCK.

Here's an excerpt from a lighthearted view of the new Captain Marvel:

At a base level, the very idea of a superhero is innately goofy or
farcical, or at least it should be. But “Captain Marvel,” by most
accounts, is almost perfect: Strong. Beautiful. Driven. Ultra-powerful.
According to Slate, she is a “serious, stolid type whose steel will and
laser-focused commitment to her mission make her a formidable foe even
when her fists aren’t glowing orange with photon-blasting superpowers,”
which is impressive indeed.

But what does it say about our culture
that influential people take a movie like this — and similar so-called
representations of women, which, as a reminder, are based on fictional
comic book characters with alien superpowers — so seriously? Perhaps
it’s because modern feminism has morphed into a crazed culture of
unforgiving, humorless and ultimately atomized workaholism. But hey,
that’s just my theory
.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-captain-marvel-feminism-women-superhero-wilhelm-0311-20190308-story.html

Apparently Krugman has nothing better to do that write movie reviews.

ROFLROFLROFL

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Ziemia(6a)

how commendatory

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elvis

Wonderful word!

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Kathy

Cait, do you have a source for the biggest polluters?

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maifleur01

Since the US has for decades sent things like electronics to other countries knowing that to reclaim the usable parts and materials was too unsafe for US citizens. This country has been willing to harm people in other countries. The idea that the US is not one of the top polluters only means that people have not looked at why the other countries top the list. While the US may not be a direct polluter the US causes the other countries to be on this list. China will always be on the list even if they did not accept the recycling that the US refuses to do simply because of the size of the population.

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Rina

What does it matter where the US comes on the list of polluters? In the smallest of countries, people still need to be considering what happens to their waste, and minimising that which is particularly harmful. This is a world duty, not a little parochial thing.

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sableincal

Is that a male wearing plastic tampon applicators? Yes, he has a beard and big hands.

Talk about rage. I want that judgmental POS to start having periods; I want him to bleed the way women do. I want him to worry about whether he is bleeding through his clothes the way high school girls do. I want him to figure out what to do about it. I want him to have to wear an external belt that holds the pad in place, inside his underpants, the way we did before tampons were invented. I want him to go into a public bathroom and change pads in a stall and do what is necessary to get rid of the used pad, since he is isn't supposed to flush it down the toilet.

I want him to have menstrual cramps.

I want him to have mood swings.

Men judging women. Feh.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

The way I understand it, China was paying top dollar for our (and the rest of the world's) plastic waste, so it made sense that we would sell it to them. However, I guess, since we didn't hedge our bets by increasing our own recycling of plastics, once China ceased doing that, we're stuck with nowhere comparable to unload our stuff now.

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Current Resident(z4 WI)

Yeah what diff does it make what our ranking. why is everything a competition with these people - only winners and losers in their universe

[ .

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Kathy

Yes as recently as 2017-2018 China was taking our waste.

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petalique

sable — tampons were not Jay C’s complaint, but the plastic applicators that women must have been disposing of by flushing down the toilet. I don’t think tampon manufacturers are using plastic for applicators any longer (long while now). I remember walking on a beach in New London, CT that was awash in those plastic applicators. Apparently there was no trap for catching them at the sewerage treatment plants before they went through the outfalls and into they bays.

OT — what I’ve sometimes been curious about are those thimbles or mentrual “cups”. I can’t imagine how they work or stY in place (speak of accidents). Are they tossed or recycled? Re-used?

I’m thankful I no longer need to deal with the list of woes you provided. Migraines, curling into a ball from horrible cramps, on and on.

In one country, women are making pads from (? plastic shoppers turned into fabric”.

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carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b(zone 9/10)

Interestingly enough, On Point was covering this topic today, providing a lot of detailed info on the issues surrounding recycling problems in the US and elsewhere.

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2019/03/14/burning-recyclables-china-us

WHYY: "Burning plastic recyclables" — "China is no longer accepting America’s recyclable plastic and it’s having an effect on our recycling and trash procedures – some of which could be dire. In Chester, one of Pennsylvania’s poorest cities, a trash incinerator has begun to burn the excess plastic. There are concerns in the community that this could lead to health problems due to the incinerator’s emissions. Today, we’ll begin by talking about the environmental consequences of China’s decision to refuse America’s plastic with JENNA JAMBECK, environmental engineering professor at University of Georgia. Then, we’ll talk with Chester resident and activist ZULENE MAYFIELD and University of Pennsylvania public health expert MARILYN HOWARTH, about the plant in Chester and the concerns about burning plastic. We’ll also be joined by PAUL GILMAN, senior vice president and chief sustainability officer from Covanta, the company that operates the incinerator in Chester."

And on that page are links to other articles, etc.

I know that one of the biggest problems is contamination of these waste streams from people putting the wrong things in their bins. It happens here - even at the city facility where I work, by people who presumably should know better.

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Ziemia(6a)

sableincal - you have completely missed the point of that costume. Had little if anything to do with menstruating. (tl;dr version)

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

Petalique, the diva cups etc that you referred to are made of silicone and are reused for many years. When positioned correctly there are no leaks but some women choose to use a panty liner (paper or cloth) or absorbent panties as back-up. The women who love them, love them. Those who hate them, hate them. I haven't talked to anyone in between.

Some tampons do still have plastic applicators. And the ones with plastic applicators are individually wrapped in plastic too, instead of paper.

Sorry off topic.

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sableincal

I did not miss the point! I totally understood the point of the protest and why the guy was wearing the tampon applicator get-up. But I saw that it was a male who was protesting plastics and simply blew, at the idea of a man showing off an offending plastic product which happens to be one of the symbols of an event that women contend with for 35-40 years, and about which men have no idea other than that their female partners might be a bit cranky. Had it been a woman I wouldn't have minded.

We have a close friend who is an engineer/hydrologist. His career involves designing and inspecting waste water treatment plants. So I E-ed him about this particular event, including the picture, and asked him about plastic applicators. Here is his response:

"The plastic applicators are the worst, as some of the other stuff crumbles and breaks up (meaning diapers and the sanitary products themselves). But the plastic is forever (other than if you leave it in the sun, and then it biodegrades very slowly). It clogs everything and a trip to a treatment plant will impress you with how many of the plastic tubes float in the center of those huge tanks. Many get through the screens which have 1" or so spacings...

"Most treatment plants are mostly biological (similar to what happens in streams, but highly accelerated). Non-biodegradable stuff shouldn't be put in the sewer. And poisons (even like the old silver nitrate used to develop photo negatives), can disable and have taken out even a big plant."

So there you are!

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Swampy

related questions:

1.why doesn't the US recycle it's own waste here in the US?

2. why do we use single stream recycling when it doesn't work?

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miss lindsey (still misses Sophie)(8a)

3. Would increased diversion of waste and recycling domestically in US and Canada create jobs?

(Hint: YES)

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Swampy

And if you are recycling why would you want to spend the energy to ship the stuff 1/2 way around the world?

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terrene(5b MA)

We should already have systems in place to recycle valuable materials here in the US. For example, aluminum is endlessly recyclable and some paper and plastic materials are very recyclable. And why don't we have a bottle bill that redeems every bottle for 5 or 10 cents in every state in the nation?

The costs of properly disposing of waste or repurposing the materials from the products that American consume are part of the costs of production and consumption. All too often the costs of the waste and pollution are externalized and passed onto parties such as the public taxpayer, future generations that will have to deal with the pollution, or off-shored to developing countries who work for cheap labor and have fewer regulations.

This form of capitalism cheats the system and generates a profit for the producer that is not legitimate!

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petalique

Re #2: I suspect there would be much less compliance if consumers had to sort — paper, cardboard, metal, various types of plastic and sort glass by color. Even now I suspect that a lot of consumers don’t bother to recycle, even with single stream. Maybe many don’t adequately clean the recyclables.

**** Swampy, are you still here? I miss seeing your posts (and cannot figure out various posters’ “voices.” ****

(Would everybody just stop — haha ha

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catkinZ8a


petalique


**** Swampy, are you still here? I miss seeing your posts (and cannot figure out various posters’ “voices.” ****

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The page you requested was not found.

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sunflower_petal(5a)

And the petty rage continues. From CNN:

Trumpworld is going to go after the press hard in the coming days. The Republican National Committee is already blasting out emails with titles like "The Media Was Obsessed With The Democrat Lie." And many of Fox's talk show hosts are blasting CNN and MSNBC.

The WaPo's White House team expects the same thing: "Aides say Trump plans to highlight the cost of the probe and call for organizations to fire members of the media and former government officials who he believes made false accusations about him."

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petalique

Caught up, thanks.

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