This Year's New Natives

Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

We want to start over, get back to nature, reconnect with the planet, restore paradise! We have destroyed far too much native lands to the detriment of every other living species we share this planet with! It's time to offer our personal properties back to the wildlife and make them full of native plants so the species will return once again. That's what's happening here. A lot of native seeds have been sown and will soon be grown. Anyone please feel free to enhance the conversation. Trading is welcome. I still have a lot of leftover seeds. The story continues. At present all of the seeds have been winter sown and are chilling outside. Things will start moving quickly once germination occurs. I'm not perfect. I misspell words, use wrong Latin names, talk about species that don't exist lol, typos, ect, ect. Please be patient! The drama continues!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)













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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I kept trying to comment and it wouldn't submit. I tried a different pic and it stuck.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Found it! Thank you for starting over again.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

These are the butterflies I see mostly here in Joliet Illinois.










https://youtu.be/U-ECnLCOL4c

Video about germinating ginseng.

https://youtu.be/KV_dh3Ojx0c

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This thread is mainly about the native plants that covered the midwest, northern midwest, and northeast to southeast. It's always exciting to hear people from other areas talk about their local natives! The types of plantings we are doing are prairie, woodland, transition to woodland, full sun, part sun, full shade, wet, medium, dry, loam, silt, sand, gravel. Along with the planting comes invasive weed removal of course. I'm very interested in what all you other native plant lovers here are doing!

At present all winter sown natives are just chillin.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Earth!


A mecca of life.


Most of it still flourishing.


Despite our best efforts.


The signs of the times seem to point to the fact that if us humans keep increasing........


in a matter of time we will cause our own extinction.


And most sadly of all, take most of this planets beautiful, unique, exquisite species with us.


Then God said," Let the earth produce vegetation,


seed bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.


And God saw that it was good!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

You are going to grow water parsnip? I've seen someone (on here maybe), mention keeping their potted wetland plants in a saucer of water. Is that the plan?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Good question Skip. Glad you brought it up. I think the plan is to grow it in one of the 2 beds adjacent to my patio. That's where the hose is. It's where I was going to put jewelweeds and Lobelias and any plants that don't need all day full sun, but need moist soil. That way I can keep the soil moist. You can grow Sium sauve in moist soil. It doesn't have to be sitting directly in water. I just had a late start and had to do these 1st year beds with anything I could get my hands on, mainly tacky annuals lol. With all these new native plants these 2 beds are going to be completely different, but definately all native. I'll see how it goes. I really need to make a little rain garden for the sake of my blue flag iris and Joe Pye weed. I might throw some Sium in there.

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/wetland/plants/wt_parsnip.html


Future home of Sium sauve.


The fennel stays. For the Swallowtails!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_(tree)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillaria_ostoyae

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inosculation



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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Wow, that’s a lot for me to look up later.

Since you are all seed experts, I would need some help, please. I just ordered Ipomoea pandurata seeds for the third (and definetly last) time. I would like it to grow up the old playground structure. It’s still very sturdy, but not really used. The first time the instructions said to soak the seeds. Nothing sprouted. The second time they said to rough them up a bit with sandpaper. Same thing. Any tips on what I should do this time? They also hate to have their roots disturbed. What do you do with these type of plants? Sow as usual and be extra careful transplanting? Do you use the pots you plant directly into the soil and are supposed to break down quickly? Or do you use the plastic cup cut in half and stuck into another cup method? I would be happy if I can get just one of them to grow successfully, so any advise is appreciated.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You could try using the peat pots Iris.

https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/savanna/plants/ws_potato.htm

https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=ippa

https://pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Ipomoea+pandurata

I know what you are going through Iris. I tried growing red morning glories for 3 years without any luck. The voles would only eat the Ipomoeas that I planted. They didn't touch the hundreds of vollunteers that came up on their own. Then, finally, after a lot of chicken wire and stress they bloomed,.....but they were PURPLE!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha, Jay! That’s funny. I do have a lot of the weedy ones. Had to relocate a couple of Sphinx moth caterpillars last Summer. I tried to rip out as many as possible until I noticed the caterpillars on it.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

So, should I soak? Sand them? It’s hard to believe something kind of weedy is so hard to grow on purpose. There are a lot of plants like that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I the 3rd link that I pasted, it said to soak the seeds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oops sorry. I just saw two links earlier. This one also says the roots don’t want to be disturbed. As long as I even get to the point of having roots.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, are you going to put some aquatic milkweed in there with your jewelweed?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't remember if I used the peat pots when I grew the morning glories. Whatever I did I'm sure I was careful not to disturb the roots. I've tried growing a few other morning glory species without any luck. I tried growing the magical Mexican morning glory, the Hawaian yellow shrub morning glory and another climbing morning glory called Morrenia or something. I never got one flower from all 3 of them. I bought a nice sized bag of mycorrhizae innoculent for all the plants. It can really help all the plants a lot and it can't hurt any of them. It helps them grow stronger roots more early on. I could put 2 or 3 aquatic milkweeds in that area. It doesn't get full day sun, so I was going to put some variegatas in that area also.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I do have some of that stuff. Put it in when I planted some things in Summer since it’s not a great time to plant. Not sure it helped, but nothing died. So maybe it did. At this point I am just hoping I get any of the seeds to germinate. There will be 20 of them, hopefully arriving next week.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've pretty much always soaked my morning glory seeds for 24 hours. The seed coats are very hard, especially those big white giant moonflower seeds. I guess they are sort of like bean seeds. They should swell up after soaking, if not you might have to rub the seeds against sandpaper to penetrate the coat and then soak another 24 hours again. Once the seeds are soaked and swollen, they need to be kept moist until and after planting. Iris, do you order new porterweeds every year? Do you know a good place that sells them? The micorrhizae could help the seeds germinate. I've been sprinkling it on all my seeds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I did for a few years in a row. Usually from Almost Eden. Not sure I will do so again. They flowered well, but they were not the big insect magnet for me than they seem to be for the more southern gardeners. Never seen a hummingbird on them for example. Their favorite seems to be the cypress vine. Never planted it, trying to get rid of most every year. But the sulphurs love it too. They also love black and blue salvia, Mexican sunflower, butterfly ginger and Zinnias. So still thinking about it.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was looking at different places and I did notice almost eden was selling them. I'm really surprised to hear the results you had with them. Everybody in Florida raves about them. I still want to try a couple plants once and see what happens. I want to get a deep purple one and the real hot red one S. sanguinea. I'm going to have s few Verbenas too. They are related. I like the I. pandurata. That's nice that it's perennial. You don't have to start new seeds every year. Did you ever get to plant even one? I think they like their soil on the dry side.

Most of the internet photos show chewed up leaves so I'm assuming it's a great bug plant.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I really like Almost Eden. Ordered a lot from them. Shipping is costly, but the plants look great, they are very well packaged and the customer service is exceptional. I never got to plant one of the pandurata. My seeds never made it. Almost Eden had plants at some point, but because of the Sweet Potato weevil quarantine I can’t get them. I do have verbenas. I am interested to see how Porterweed is going to work for you. Maybe it’s really what the insects in your area are used to? Would be worth a study.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There is a Sphinx Moth that uses I. pandurata.







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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

If I ever get the seeds to grow, I will report back of what is eating the plants. I got a book in the mail. A Valentines present from my older daughter. No idea why she would send something for Valentine’s Day, but she knows me well...


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That's cool. Looks like a lot of information. The weather is going to stay around 30 for a few days. It was in the teens today. I hope I get a Sphinx moth cat on something. I couldn't find any on the wild grape. I may have to plant 1 pot of tomatoes. For me and the cats. Nothing was eating my Pentas either, but I bought the dwarf Pentas by accident. I was really mad about that. They have all these frankenstein cultivars today. You have to read the fine print to make sure you're getting what you think you're getting! The dwarf Pentas were so short that the butterflies couldn't see them. I'm getting some parakeet gravel to sprinkle over the seeds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

How cool is that?!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Very cool!

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Now for a reality check. Estimated population this winter is no more than in 2005. The trend is basically downward. Will it reach a


level of non-sustainability? Will my grandchildren be the last generation to have seen the Monarch?


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Hopefully not Dandy.


I have noticed a lot of common milkweed on the side of the road and in park margins, where I had never seen it before. I think some groups are making an effort to support them.



I feel good right now, I just ripped out a thicket of japanese honeysuckle and multiflora rose in a 20x20 ft area at the back of my lot. It was helpful that they were pretty much the only thing green back their! It was an area I couldn't even walk by or mow during the summer because it was so thickly vegetated and intermingled with poison ivy, stumps and logs. Now at least I can keep it mowed down and then spray it before I start planting new stuff.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Great job, Skip! I have been fighting wisteria, honeysuckle and Bermuda grass today. Crawling around under shrubs. At least the ticks are not out yet. Found some weird little plants with really big roots for their size. Better try to look up (or ask on Name that plant if I can’t find it), before it becomes my next problem.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Milkweed is only half the issue that Monarchs need. The other is: how to get to Mexico and stay fed on the trip. Note that the milkweed is no longer in bloom so they have to find other sources. And, considering that they have a brain the size of a pinhead which doesn't leave much room for intelligence, they have to rely on blooming natives whose aroma seems to be hard wired into their little brains.

Up here it's all about Liatris and Joe Pye Weed from what I have observed.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t think they have natives in their brain. I had plenty of natives (liatris, anise hyssop, Frostweed, goldenrod etc.) flowering in late Fall. They went for the butterfly bush and Zinnias.

picture from November 2nd.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, good job! I was wondering, can you cover seeds that need sun to germinate with chicken grit. That Joe Hollis guy said the seeds will grow right up through it, but will it block the light? I could just lightly cover the seeds. It's probably good for dropping tiny seeds into. I should have been using it from the start!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I really hope the north American Monarch population returns back in numbers. I think the problem is not enough food during migration, pollution, highways, ect, and probably the biggest problem is OE. Monarchs have naturalized in Hawaii, Spain, New Zealand, and they are trying to introduce Monarchs into eastern Europe where they've been growing milkweeds for a long time. There is another brush footed butterfly in the Monarch family. I think they live in India and they have a winter migration that is farther than the Monarchs. I had that go murder nasty shubs moment today too lol, but damn, I didn't act on it! Pretty muddy outside.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

OE?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

O.E. is a protazoan disease that's wiping out the Monarchs. It's carried by spores and if the adults are infected the spores will fall from them and infect the milkweeds. Any eggs or caterpillars that come in contact with the spores will get infected. The reason the west coast Monarch population is in such bad shape is because a lot of those western milkweeds are perennial all year long and they never die back to the ground, so all those western milkweeds just keep accumulating more pathogens. There's also a far southern population of Monarchs in Florida and Texas. They stay down there year round and don't fly to Mexico. That southern population has a higher rate of infection than the migrating population. The people down there grow tropical milkweed which also doesn't die to the ground. There's a lot of people out there thinking they are saving the Monarchs because they grow milkweeds, but they are actually killing them through ignorance.

https://monarchjointventure.org/resources/faq/what-is-oe

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Nice Job Iris, I've heard wisteria is a monster.

I've seen monarchs on odd sale displays of plants in nurseries too, I think they can find nectar on non-native plants, but some flowers that have been bred to be double flowered or extra large dont provide much nectar, instead allocating their resources to making those crazy flowers, according to Doug Tallamy. Not saying butterfly bush and Zinnias fall into those categories, they are both popular nectar plants.

Jay, I think you will be fine using a thin coating (like one gravel grain thick) or no coating of grit if you already sowed your seed. Such a thin layer should still let light in. In a mostly closed container like you are using, I dont think you run the same risk I do of the seeds floating or blowing away.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, you were sowing the very tiny seeds into the grit, weren't you. I still have to sow some Agalinis purpurea and Sedum glaucophyllum. There are very tiny. I was thinking they would stay in place better if I sowed them into the grit? Not that it matters at this point lol! Yeah, daylilies aren't helping the Monarchs. A stared at pics of the hottest daylily cultivers yesterday in disgust. Why does everybody think their the coolest? Lilium superbum, now that's worth bragging about! I planted seeds for Rhodiola rosea, roseroot. This genus grows in the cold northern areas of North America, Europe and Asia. There was a guy on a video talking about another Rhodeola species, so I looked up the genus on bonap and found another Rhodiola species that grows in Minnesota. It's Rhodiola integrifolia.

Rholiola integrifolia.



Rhodiola integrifolia.


Rhodiola rosea, roseroot.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yes thats what I did with the later batches, and went back and covered some of the earlier batches. I put the grit on pretty thinly, 1 or 2 grains thick, unless it was a more medium-tiny seed, then I did a little thicker maybe 3-4 grains thick lol. You know which seeds are small and which ones are ridiculously small

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

All the seeds I wanted to start early, under lights are sown, except the popcorn cassia and Mimosa pudica. They were still soaking. I sowed, Tithonia, Tweedia solanoides, Tweedia caerulea, Gomphocarpus cancellatus, Gomphocarpus fruticosa, Gomphocarpus physocarpus, Dregea sinensis, Asclepias curassavica 'Silky Yellow, Asclepias curassavica regular, Salvia coccinea. There are 7 bins still left to add things, probably some annuals. There are still a few seeds on their way lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

You are all going to be so busy taking care of seedlings! It’s supposed to rain the whole next week. Maybe I should start more seeds inside since it looks I will not be able to get much done outside. Just came in from doing a “scratch and sniff” test on one of the plants I need help identifying. As often as I ask, i should be able to remember to do this in the first place.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

How did that Helleborus get into your yard I wonder? I had a plant a long time ago. It didn't do it for me. I gave it to my neighbor. I'm glad I did now that I think of it. They had some blooming in the stores, just like the tulips. I ordered 3 white Trillium with the other plants from Izel. They make you buy a few at least. I had to order 7 plants of the Panax trifolius. That's ok though, they stay small. I checked out what they will be offering in plugs. For the Chrysogonum, green and gold the minimum order is 32 plugs for $83.45. If you wanted Packera aurea plugs you have to buy 50 plugs for $90.00. They just will not make it easy for anyone! There are 2 or 3 counties one county over heading east, and bonap shows they have a higher occurance of Acmispon americanus and Plantago patagonica. Maybe I will try to find them this year if I have time lol. It's going to snow here the next 4 days, and then rain. Iris, floral asked you a question about the roots to your plant. I'm going to take the bins that are sown to the other place where the light is. I think I'm going to make a bog garden instead of a rain garden. I'll dig a deep hole and put in a pond liner, and then fill it back up. I wonder how deep Joe Pye Weed roots grow? Time to start design. A lot of these plants are so beautiful they should be planted where they can show it off!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

What is a normal gardener supposed to do with 50 plugs? That’s a lot. I have no idea how all these plants end up here. I mean, we have big properties and most don’t even have much more than some shrubs and daylilies in front of their houses. Remember the kale looking plant with the unknown caterpillars I had last Fall? It has taken off and is about to flower. Still looks like some sort of ornamental kale to me.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't think I remember it. It's hard to remember. There's been so many lol. I really wanted to grow bronze fennel for the Swallowtails and no stores have it this year. Wildseed Farms always has it so I looked and they didn't have it either. I ordered a packet of seeds online. I think I'm officially done getting seeds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The Lowe’s here usually has bronze fennel in their vegetable/ herb section. Not that I need any, I have a dozen seedlings popping up.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The fennels are perennials. I think mine are still green. I don't think I've ever had fennel reseed. Dill is the opposite. It self sows everywhere!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Same species. 2 variations.

Eutrochium purpureum var. carolinianum.


Eutrochium purpureum.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The advantage of this miserable weather is that I am finding all kinds of stuff organizing.

on the other hand, if I leave all these mystery plants in the ground until I know what they are, I don’t have room for more plants. Seems the latest one is still a mystery. Not a Lenten rose.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

My Euthrochium purpureum got wrecked by mildew last year, think I should try spraying the leaves with a milk solution or baking soda or something this year?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That variation of Eutrochium was discovered in the peidmont area of the Carolinas. I like the wider leaves on the variation. There's a penstemon that's one of our most colorful and it's native to the carolinas too. It's Penstemon smallii. There are some beautiful Mexican penstemons too, it's just not worth growing them this far north. Iris have you ever tried growing standing cypress or basketflowers?


Ipomopsis rubra, standing cypress.



Penstemon smallii



Centaurea americana.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have never heard of the standing cypress. Beautiful! Will have to look that up. As for the basket flower:

It says direct sow at last Frost date.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I bought my seed packet from Native American Seed in Texas. I've ordered seeds and plants from Select Seeds before. You have them all stumped by that plant Iris.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Oh well. Maybe somebody will know. I will leave them there for now. See what happens or if they eventually get a flower. Select seeds included more Mexican sunflowers as the free gift. Anybody need some? Mine usually have plenty of volunteers coming up from the previous year.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Since your last post, I have been trying to thing what cute red flowers I planted last year. Royal catchfly, that’s it! I REALLY have to make better lists!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thanks Iris for the seed offer. Javi sent me enough to cover me. I have about 3 Silene regias. They are one of my favorites. I have trouble growing the Lobelia cardinalis because it's so dry here, but the royal catchflys like it on the dry side. But it's been almost too dry for them the past 2 years . I've bought s few Silenes a few different times. I never had one live long enough to bloom until a few years ago. I winter sowed some of the seeds from my plants. I think I ordered a few plants from Prairie Nursery and they came badly rootbound like most of their plants. I ordered 3 from Missouri Wildflowers and they came in extra deep pots and the plants were beautiful.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am not sure where I got mine from. I think Shady Oaks butterfly farm.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I ordered a few last packets of seeds from Prairie Moon if anyone would like some. Amorpha fruticosa, Skip? Penstemon smallii, Iris?, Amorpha nana, Dandy? My gardens are going to be a legume lover's utopia!!!


Pilea pumila, clearweed.


That reminds me. I need to start a bunch more seeds. It's a very attractive shady ground cover besides being a good Red Admiral host plant.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha. Oh boy, Jay. You are going to have to have a plant sale! I have been trying to look up if anybody would sell the ipomopsis rubra as plants. Really can’t find the Amorpha glabra. Pine ridge may or may not have the litens. I emailed if there will be a catalog, but she replied she is just doing one every other year now. She was hoping to update the list of what is available. My most complicated nursery to order from (as in no online shopping cart and such ), but the plants always looked good. Plus I got the Redring milkweed there. They had some even though it said it was sold out.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think they might be selling the Alpexicaulis as plants too. I looked around for places selling the Amorpha glabra too, but I couldn't find any. I'm surprised you didn't like the Amorpha georgiana var. confusa more. That's the most beautiful one imo. Seeing that I like it so much I'm sure without even looking it's impossible to find lol. But I'll check anyway. :) I've always grown the Ipomopsis from seeds. I still haven't figured out how to grow it right yet. It does real well in the deep south where you are. Your climate is perfect for them. They need an early start to reach their full potential, and once they bloom and self sow in your yard they will probably just self sow from that point on. I would find a dryer area for them. It's more of a hummingbird plant I think. Not sure how much butterfly activity they get. The Penstemon smallii isn't really native here. It's native to the Carolinas. It reaches about to the southern bottom of the state. I wanted to grow it anyway. It's one of the most colorful of the eastern Penstemons. I looked at Dave's garden and someone in Colorado was growing it. That's a lot further from its natural range than I am.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The weather is kind of throwing me off. I am so far behind with my Fall cleanup. At this point I might be done with that in May. Yesterday was great with 60 degrees. Muddy, but no rain. Today it was 38 degrees and rain. Tomorrow is supposed to be dry. Will see if I can take some pictures of the mess that is my big new (2 years now) flowerbed. I really need to get in there and see where there would be room. I have already seen that the path I did have in there is going to be blanket flowers, mountain mint, frog fruit, verbena and Frostweed. I think the “Hula dancer” coneflower is already poking out there, too.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I hate mud. I need some rubber garden boots. I already have the knee pads lol. That sounds like a nice planting! Does your frogfruit come back, or do you get new plants every year? What kind of Verbena? I wanted frogfruit but I have other Verbena family plants so I'll wait on that. I found out the Dregia sinensis is deciduous and it can be grown as an annual in a pot. It's also easy to grow from cuttings too. It should bloom this first year. If not I could keep the pot in the sunroom over winter. The person I traded with sent me a nice ammount of seeds. I may have to sell some plants. Seriously! And then there are the miljweed cash crops, Asclepias variegata and Gomphocarpus cancellatus. Nobody has them but everybody wants them!

https://www.gardenguides.com/107533-root-system-joe-pye-weed.html.


Pond liner or bog liner.

Finally, the possability of growing self perpetuating Lobelia cardinalis!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The frogfruit has been coming back at an alarming rate. For the most part growing on the outside, so I could just expand the bed some more. I have been living in my rubber boots since the end of September I think. Thankfully they are comfortable.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I have no idea if the frogfruit would self seed up here or not. The Verbena bonariensis does, to the point of becomming a 'weed'!!!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urticales

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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

We have both Rhodiola integrifolia (kings crown) and Rhodiola rosea (queens crown) growing in the upper montaine and alpine elevations of the Rockies. Awesome plants, but they live where it snows in late June. I seriously doubt either would survive the hot, dry prairie summer down here at only 4800 feet.

As for monarchs, according to the U.S. Forest Service, the loss of caterpillar host plants due to increased in hebicide use in the "corn belt" is the number one cause for the decline. Other factors include climate change which affects the bloom periods of nectar sources and, combined with timber harvesting, is causing a loss of overwintering habitat in the oyamel forests of Mexico.

We don't get a ton of monarchs here on the Front Range, we are on the western fringe of the eastern population. But we have a pretty awesome patch of A. incarnata at Rocky Flats NWR which was filled with the butterflies this last summer. We actually spent a day tagging them as part of Monarch Watch's migration survey... which reminds me I still need to finish writing that report haha.

I planted two flats of milkweed seeds last week (speciosa and incarnata). I just put them out in the greenhouse and left the door and windows open on it so they could get stratified. I was reading conflicting information on whether they needed light to germinate or not so I just made little 1/8-1/4" deep holes in the cells with a pencil erase amd put the seeds in without covering them. I figured its easier to cover them if they need it than it is to uncover them.

These 72 plants (like my optimism there?) are a trial run useing packets of seed from the garden center. I'm going to see how well it works growing and planting them around the wetlands we have here at the house. At $250-400/pound for these species, I want to make sure I know what I'm doing first.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Zach I like that you're going for 72 plants to "trial" them first in anticipation of possibly adding more. Thats how I'm trying to think about things a little more now. I tried for larger multiples of a few species this year too. Of course I have collector syndrome and am still trying to grow a few plants for lots of others species.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Hi Zach, it's nice hearing from you! The Rhodiola integrifolia is beautiful. I wouldn't bother trying to grow it this far south. Usually it's the other way around and I want plants that need a warmer climate. The Rhodiola rosea isn't in my range either but its medicinal value is how I'm justifying growing it lol. I guess us folk here in the corn belt are the most guilty of removing most of the milkweeds. There's just not enough wild land left. And, like you said, the lack of pollinator plants is a big issue. And whatever plants are still left, are seperated and fragmented. They're just tiny insects that can only fly so far in one tank of fuel! It's that way in my city too. There are some places where there's an abundance of milkweeds and then a bunch of places where there is none. There is a small prairie preserve down the street from me thats loaded with Asclepuas syriaca. There's another prairie across town where there is almost no syriaca, but a few plants of A. verticillata. A. syriaca is by far the most common around here. I have some A. speciosa and A. incarnata seeds that are chilling in bins outside now. I sowed quite a few other milkweed species also. If they all germinate I'll have over 400 milkweeds lol. Might have to offer some plants to the prairie that's lacking, due to space constraints. 2018 was the best year for Monarchs in a long time. The eastern population anyways. Seeing snow on a mountaintop in June. That's what I love about the west. $400 a pound for showy milkweed seeds. Sounds about right. Hey, are you familiar with Acmispon americanus? We here were trying to find seeds for the deer vetch, but it's proving to be difficult. Bonap shows the species growing accross the whole country, but apparantly Californians think it's a 'Cal' plant and don't want to sell seeds to anyone not living in California unless you are willing to pay $180 a pound for seeds.lol I find it crazy that I have such a difficult problem acquiring what 99.9 percent of people consider weeds. Plantago patagonica is another plant. I can't find seeds for it anywhere, and both species are supposed to be native here! Getting back to the milkweeds for a second, I read an article about the importance of miccorhizae to milkweeds so I bought a big bag of the fungi and innoculated my milkweed seeds and potting mix with it. I think Colorado's weather is similar Illinois. In the beginning of spring the weather is unpredictable. Freak blizzards, Freak heat waves.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Senna didymobotrya, popcorn cassia.



Lilium superbum, Turk's cap lily.

I ordered 5 bulbs. Most definately NOT Hostas or daylilies!,


Scutellaria ovata.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Here are a couple Mountain Gardens. The first is about paradise gardening and reconnecting with the planet. I found the second video about Chamaerilieium luteum, fairy wand, unicorn root. I didn't know it was endagered. It's now considered medicinally valuable so a lot of despicable people are digging them all out of the woods, just like ginseng. I just ordered 3 plants from Izell. I included it in the list of seeds I requested from Mountain Gardens, but then I looked at Izell's plant and bit the bullet lol. I just found out from the video that there are seperate male and female plants. I hope I get 2 girls and 1 boy. You can order there plugs now, and I'm not seeing the Asclepias quadrifolia listed, so they might have stopped selling it. They won't start taking orders for plugs, untl the week of April 15th. Things could change by then.

https://youtu.be/ZUIh6ZFO48c

https://youtu.be/8df9Ho9Hhds

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I ordered a hand dial seeder. They have another kind that looks like a syringe. Is this the kind you have? You said something about a funnel. Some seeds are so small that I'm not sure that syringe tool would always be capable of disensing one seed each time. Yeah, I know I should have done this over 2 months ago lol but better late than never. This new potting mix that I'm mixing with the coco peat and perlite doesn't have any noticable wood chips so I'm adding more perlite to compensate. No biggie, only like about 4 bins to go.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Jay, I have a small normal multipurpose funnel but I didnt end up using it for seeds. I used that green folded paper that comes with the prairiemoon seeds, put my seeds in the crease, and used a pointy object to slide the seeds off the paper to where I wanted them.

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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

Skip, the driving factor in doing "trials" is that I have had not-so-good luck with propogating native forbs from seed haha. I can grow every grass native from Illinois to the Rockies, but wildflowers have proven themselves to be much more finicky. They typically have much more complex dormancy and germination inhibitors whereas grass can be planted any time of year and will germinate just fine so long as it eventually gets warm and wet. They also are much less particular of growing conditions and while they may underpreform, they will generally survive for at least a couple seasons to flower and set seed. Is it any wonder that, around the world, more species of Poaceae are considered invasive than any other plant family? Of course forb seeds are a lot more expensive, too. Most grasses I can get for less then $20/pound while most wildflowers are at least $50 with many being much, much higher than that. Forget gas prices, imagine if we had to fill our tanks with native wildflower seeds! Since we have 400 acres of prairie and wetland that I am working to restore, it is imperative that I figure out how successful I can be with these plants before dumping my life savings into them.

Saving seeds also helps offset costs and some of the plants I have had good success with I have started to sow patches for future collection sites. These include bee plant (Cleome serrulata) cowpen daisy (Verbesina encelioides) and prairie and annual sunflower (Helianthus petiolaris, H. annuus). All of these are quick colonizers and are considered weeds in many situations (and in some places even invasive) so it is no surprise that these are the plants I am able to grow with relative ease. Some seeds I have limited supply of, and are virtually or literally unknown to cultivation. I have one bag of Cirsium undulatum that I have collected from somewhere but I can't find any information on propogation for them so I am nervous to plant them. Thistles are fantastic pollinator plants and I would love to have the native Cirsiums species growing here but since I also have to control the spread of exotic thistles, it makes it hard to grow the native ones. Some plants tend to just show up all on their own without needing any help from me, though their abundance may be tied to poor land managment in the past. These include hairy false goldenaster (Heterotheca villosa) and some type of purple aster that I have spent a lifetime trying to identify but have so far been unsuccessful.

Unlike the ginsing and unicorn root that Jay posted about, overharvesting threatens very few, if any, plants out here on the High Plains that I am aware of. The biggest threat is conversion of prairie to urban and suburban areas, fossil fuel extraction, and agriculture. The spread of invasive species, such as cheatgrass (downy brome, Bromus tectorum) has also severely degraded most of the shortgrass prarie (as well as most other ecosystems in western North America). Grazing livestock can completely eradicate some species, like pale purple coneflower (Echinacea pallida) in as little as a single season.

This is the first I have heard of Acmispon americanus. Apparently it has numerous synonyms and USDA has it listed under Lotus unifoliolatus. I believe that USDA tends to fall in the "lumper" category and while this plant may have been unique to the west coast states, once it got lumped with the others it is no longer as unique as the folks in California once believed. That being said, taxonomic changes can sometimes be subjective or slow to catch on. I try to take them on a case-by-case basis and I don't usually believe one source is enough to change a classification. If you use iNaturalist, you will find that many people will make taxonomic changes to things based on a single organization making the change while all others still either keep them lumped or split. I guess it strokes their ego or something, who knows...

Some years we have an abundance of Plantago patagonica. If this coming year is one of them, I will try to remember to collect seed and send you some. Not sure if you are picky about ecotypes, but you can certainly give ours a try.

Snow in June is one of my least favorite things about this region. Luckily we don't USUALLY get winter weather that late here at lower elevations, but it does happen. The latest snowfall recorded in Denver was early June and the latest frost was either mid or late June. Snow in September is a pretty common thing here. Forecasters say that we are going to have a wet next couple of months. For us that means snow until around mother's day and spring storms are usually worse than winter ones. Fortunately it usually melts in just a couple days that late in the year. But even a garden of native perennials sure looks pitiful after being hammered by 18-36" of heavy, wet snow.

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texasranger2

Hey Zach,

I don't envy the snow, thats for sure but I'm glad its wetter this year because last spring was so dry I had low germination from many seeds.

I usually do best direct sowing the natives which need certain conditions to unlock dormancy and the plants grow much healthier than ones I transplant from pots which is a hassle anyway. Sometimes a plant will show up the second year. I over-sow and that insures pretty good success. This year the only plants I'm growing in pots this winter are 5 native ephedra plants from Texas which are now about 5" tall and branching. If one makes it and gets established, I'll be a happy camper.

A couple of years ago, a small Plantago patagonica hitched a ride with its roots entangled in the roots of a Neomexico agave plant sent to me by a woman who lives outside Albuquerque. I teased it loose, planted it and it did fine. It took me quite some time to ID it but I finally did. There is now a nice solid patch of them that gets wider each year, currently its a carpet of tiny blue fuzzy leaves about 1/4" tall. They die out come summer but I love the blue color and texture of them growing around the cactus as a very low ground cover. They come up fairly easily but they stay clustered in their little area.

Another good (cute) one like that is Judith's Flame Flower. Super easy from seed. They now come up everywhere here but they make a nice low ground cover. I think the seeds tend to pop open, explode somewhat and spread about which would make it invasive if it was a bigger plant.

btw, I've still got that box of cactus cuttings under the carport with your name on it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Hi Tex, you are making me drool by going on about your PLANTAGO PATAGONICA! I still can't believe how hard it is to find seeds for it lol. I have a fame flower species that's a more local ecotype growing in my sandy garden. I've planted a couple other native plantains, P. virginica and P. rhodosperma from Native American Seed. Did you find the desert marigold seeds you were looking for? You made a really cool comment about high plains grasses on perennials. I liked it! You probably have green plants coming up already , but up here it's still a frozen wasteland.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

.






WILD! FREE!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It won't let me post pictures. I'll try later. I took a pick of my grow room with the new bins. Skip, I use those prairie moon germination sheets for sowing little seeds too lol. How's it going Iris?

Seedlings in the middle are Calotropis procera. The rest of the bins contain the seeds of Dregea sinensis Gomphocarpus cancellatus, Senna didymobata, Tweedia caerulea, Tweedia solanoides, Gomphocarpus fruticosa, Gomphocarpus physocarpus, Tithonia, Mimosa pudica, Salvia coccinia.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It was really nice today, so I started cleaning up one of my never flower beds. Lots of unknown plants. Oh boy. My broadleaf mountain mint is about 6.feet by 6 feet now! Time to divide. And probably expand the flower bed. It’s supposed to rain every day until Sunday. So tired of this. Starting to catch up on this thread. Lots of googling involved on my part to look up all the plants mentioned.

Maples are starting to flower!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Thoughts on Monarda bradburiana? I don’t think I have that one yet.

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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

I don't have a lot of time, but I have to make a quick edit: I had mentioned earlier "Rhodiola rosea" growing up in alpine regions of the Rockies. In fact I meant to write Rhodiola RHODANTHA. R. rosea is not found in Colorado. Here is an actual queens crown found up above timber line on Mt. Evans. I took this picture the day it started SNOWING on me the last weekend in June! The plants up on the alpine tundras are lot tougher than me, that's for sure!



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, the Monarda bradburiana caught my attention for the first time this year so I ordered seeds from prairie moon and I have them winter sown. I really love the look of the plants. The clumps look a lot neater than the scraggly masses of M. fistulosa that I have now, and those purple stems.... they are absolutely gorgious! I like the didyma a lot too, for the hummingbirds. There's like about 4 different deep scarlet red flowers I grow for the hummers. Silene regia, Lobelia cardinalis, Salvia coccinea, Monarda didyma, and Ipomoea quamoclit. That's 5 actually. I think there are a large number of Monarda species if you look on bonap. It seems like every section of the country has its own local species. It sounds like you might be spending more time over at name that plant lol. I was looking for standing cypress plants and couldn't find anyplace offering them either. They would probably grow from seed quite easily for you. I believe, "I'm not sure" but I think standing cypress is what they call a winter annual. What they normally do is go to seed in late summer, and the seeds germinate and start to grow and then they stay little through the rest of winter and then grow big and bloom the next year. Texas bluebonnets do the same strategy. Thats why they seem to explode from nowhere in spring , along with the other Texas staples. Anyway Iris, you could throw some seeds out in summer and let them germinate and start growing for next year, that's if you don't really want to mess with seeds right now lol. The Asclepias quadrifolia might not pan out but I just found a nursery that sells another plant I've been looking for. It's Hieracium venosum. I couldn't find seeds anywhere and I'll happilly buy a plant. I was planting 2 other nice looking European Hieraciums while I waited, but this species venosum is by light years the most beautiful. And it's one of our natives!


Hieracium venosum, Chicorieae, Asteraceae, Asterales.



Rattlesnake Hawkweed.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I think I am going to wait until some of the plants are a big bigger before bothering the Name that Plant forum again. They might get tired of me. I have also been looking at Prunus mexicana. Do I need more trees right now?! Just thinking because all these little bees are currently so happy with my plum tree. Have to look your plants up.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, did I imagine a picture of a train in the fog? I was pondering if you think my brain is getting too fogged up that I would think about planting more trees.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I planted the Monarda bradburiana a couple of years ago and I was not disappointed. At first I thought, just another Monarda but the flowers are really unique looking and stand on their own. A very nice addition to my gardens. They were easy to germinate also.

Have any of you tried "Tina James Evening Primrose"? A real show stopper.

if you do, put it right by your entry way so it can be viewed easily every evening.

Taken the morning after. At dusk, each flower unfurls inside of a minute creating wow-factor moments and reasons for a party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l5lPxM1bbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk5QCZoKpdM

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ok, adding the Monarda to the definetly list!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Zach, I think you mentioned seeing Rhodiola integrifolia up the mountain, and you said that Rholiola rosea wasn't native there either. That first time you never mentioned Rhodiola rhodantha. That's a beautiful picture of the Queen's Crown btw! Thanks for all the info., there was a lot of good stuff. I'm growing about 200 different species of natives so I have the numbers on my side. Even if only half the seeds germinate I'll still have more than enough plants to deal with lol! I should keep notes, it's going to be a bunch of new information all at once. I've checked the germination codes on every one of the species. I belong to i naturalist. I just joined in the middle of winter so there's nothing interesting outside to obseve lol. I don't follow what you were saying on there about the way some of them use taxonomy. I don't mean I disagree because I can't disagree with something I don't understand. Maybe an example lol! Our weather here in northern Illinois is pretty wacky but we never have snow by the time June rolls around. I hope these heavy spring rains reports I'm hearing about will apply for my area too. Or will it remain the sub desert it's been? Tex, what is the species of Ephedra you are growing from Texas? Do you grow E. antisyphilitica?? I wish they were hardy here. I like their look, and they have medicical value. I liked your story about how you got the plantain.

Plantago rhodosperma, redseed plantain.


Plantago rhodosperma.


Plantago virginica, dwarf plantain.


Plantago virginica.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, that Tina James Scented Evening Primrose, is it very fragrant? I grew the Missouri primrose for a long time and it had huge flowers too. I looked up the species and it's Oenothera glazioviana. Wikipedia says it grows worldwide and its exact irigin is uncertain. They think it could be a European hybid of 2 north American species, whatever that means. If it's a hybrid of 2 north American species who cares if it was created in Europe or here??? Or was their some European species involved lol!?! Thanks for the videos. I never realized the flowers bursted open so fast. I should, I've been growing them enough years. I loved the rain hitting the plant in the video. It brings back good memories. I had the Missouri primrose, yellow prickly pear, rattlesnake master, fameflower, sensative briar, leadplant all growing in a sandy bed. I collect cool looking rocks when I travel. There are a lot of those rocks in there. The worst weeds I get in there are oxalis and sweet annie. I made the mistake of growing the sweet annie years ago and letting it go to seed. I've been pulling it out for years. The oxalis well I think there are probably enough seeds stored in the soil bank to last the next ten million years. I'm going by what I personally experience lol. I winter sowed seeds for Oenothera pilosella, prairie sundrops. I hope they do well here. They like a bit more moisture than the O. macrocarpa.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I did have a picture of a ghosty looking train riding through haze . I deleted it after 5 minutes. It was just a funny idea my demented.mind came up with.

It had nothing to do with you, or trees. MY mind is in a heavy fog lol. In my own personal opinion, and taking into account you do have *5* acres to plant on, I don't think you're going overboard. If I was in your shoes ( I wish!!! ) I'd be planting at least as many teees as you, if not more lol!


Plant away!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Plant the trees, give them a 10ftx10ft area, you'll be on your way to a new woodlot in no time!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s really about patience. A lot of my trees, especially in the backyard, are really small. It will look empty for a while.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Huh. I just posted something and it doesn’t show. Trying again. I already got my sweet potato vine seeds. Fingers crossed. The free gifts included are “obedient plant purple lavender”. I have obedient plants. They are looking pink to me. Also are not obedient. Is there a purple one? The other package says “orange Noah morning glory” on the front. Other things on the back, so I looked at the seeds. There are different ones. Should I toss this or see if there is something I would want? No scientific names though.


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Do you think this looks Plantago like? Probably not of the Native kind. I did mention there are all kinds of things popping up in the lawn, right?


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Plantago lanceolata.


Plantago lanceolata.


Plantago lanceolata.

Iris, I'm guessing Plantago lanceolata. You can have it ID'd to make sure. This one would move fast. Morning glory seeds can vary a lot in size. If they all look the same otherwise, they are probably all the same kind.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am going to trust your judgement with the Plantago. Ha, maybe that’s why I have so many Buckeyes. Never checked for caterpillars. Never looked the plants up either. Just thought it looked familiar with the pictures you posted.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Big snow coming your way Jay. After it's done you need to pile up a lot of snow over your pots, like about 3' of snow. This will keep them at a nice even temp, slightly below freezing. The longer under the snow the better, IMO.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

With the plantains there are too introduced species that have naturalized accross the whole country. They've taken over the niche once filled by our native plantains. The two intriduced species are everywhere. Plantago major, and Plantago lanceolata. You can't find seeds for the majority of our native plantains, but if you are looking for P. major or P. lanceolata seeds the sky is the limit. The seeds of some Plantagos is used as a laxative and the plants are supposed to be edible and nutricious. They have cultivars of P. major that are variegated or have purple leaves, but a Plantago major is still a Plantago major no matter the color. They remind me of how we've messed up the planet so don't want anything to do with them. My front lawn has a lot of P. lanceolata in it. I transplanted a couple nearer to the flowers so they wouldn't get mowed. It was in late summer and no Buckeye cats showed up to eat them.Some of the native plantains are beautiful. I really like the 2 natives I found seeds for, P. virginica and P. rhodosperma. The 2 native ones I'd like to find are P. cordata and P. patagonica. I put in a seed request for Apios priceana from Mountain Gardens. It says on their website that they harvest the seed in October, and that fresh seed is important, so I think I might have missed the bus on that opportunity. Unfortunately, the times we get a bug in our heads for a new plant don't coincide with the times that plant's available. There still might be a couple of nurseries that will be selling Apios priceana plants. I just think it's the most awesome plant. There are lots of reasons for growing it. It's threatened, it's a butterfly host plant, it's a perennial that produces a bean crop annually.


Plantago major, purple.



Plantago major, variegata.



Plantago cordata. One of our native plantains. I would love to find seeds for this species as well.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Make sure to mark your calendar for October! With all these different plants to take care of/ look for you might forget otherwise. Well. I would. I will have to look in my notes what the plant was I was looking for last Summer... More snow? Are you ready for Spring? It was 63 degrees yesterday. Today it is 36 degrees with rain. Even some thunder earlier. My dogs were not happy about that.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's 34 here. We are supposed to get a lot of snow tomorrow and then a little bit on Thursday. The forcast for the next 15 days looks messy, but the night time temps will all be well below freezing, I like that part. Yes, I will mark my calender. If I don't I'll forget lol. Can you describe what the plant looked like that you wanted to get last summer?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I do have the name. Pinckneya bracteata. Not likely going to happen.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've never heard of that species before. Why do you want it? Do you know if it's a host plant for anything?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t think it’s a host plant. Maybe some moth that eats about everything. I like how it looks. I also like plants that are not so commonly planted. It’s native in South Carolina. And probably would be a challenge to keep happy and alive.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I


Astralagus propinquus.


Astralagus propinquus.


I'm starting to become interested in the healing, medical properties of our native plants. There are also some interesting Chinese plants. I tried growing the Canadian milk vetch years ago and it never did well for me. I did winter sow some European kidney vetch seeds because it's an awesome butterfly host plant. I'm leaving my new interest in herbalusm on the back burner for now. I have to grow all these plants first and I don't need to create additional distractions. But after hearing about all the health benefits of this plant, and also the fact I'm a hopeless legume junkie, I ordered a packet of seeds lol. The video has it listed as Astralagus membranaceus, but the name has been changed to Astralagus propinquus. The Chinese name for the plant is Huang Qi. The botanical name has been changed from Astralagus membranaceus to Astralagus propinquus. The Astralagus genus is huge. Close to 3.000 species!

https://youtu.be/KMuU2fSiWkU

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Dandy, it says 61 percent amount of snow for tomorrow. I hope theres enough to shovel. I have some Amorpha nana seeds if you are interested. It's fragrant and has glossy leaves.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Yes-but keep it til next year maybe as I'm not in trade mode anymore.

I found some P. patagonica growing nearby a few years ago but then could never find it again. It was near some rr tracks in a rocky setting. Maybe I can only find t when in bloom.

I will have lots of seeds to spare next year of things I have growing and can find nearby. This area where I live has very few farms so the natives are still around.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

The canada milkvetch was super easy to germinate and tolerated growing in the plug tray for far too long. It didnt get big or flower like that prairie garden video you linked the one time, but I planted it late. Maybe this year it will put on a show. I planted at least 6 of them.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't know why but the Astralagus canadensis never grew well for me. I bought a plant of Baptisia bracteata a few years ago and it just fizzled and died. My Baptisia austalis is the totall opposite story. It had almost all it's roots gnawed off by voles, and then it spent a few years being strangled by empress tree roots, but it's still plugging along. I remember getting the plants for both species. I never started them from seed.


Astralagus canadensis, Galegeae, Faboideae, Fabaceae, Canadian milkvetch.


Baptisia bracteata, Faboideae, Fabaceae, false cream indigo.


Baptisia australis, Faboideae, Fabaceae, blue false indigo.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



I was thinking, if I make a bog that's about a ten foot wide circle, what plants to put in it. So far I have blue flag iris, Joe Pye weed and Lobelia cardinalis. I was thinking of putting some Asclepias perennis and Asclepias incarnata plants in there. My incarnata plants have been struggling the last couple years because it's been too dry. The obediant plant would do better in moister conditions too. I'm going to sow a few more bins for outside. The ginseng, going to cover with a good amount of bird gravel because they will be sitting outside a long time, and they can never dry out that whole time lol. I should keep it close to the hose. Also am sowing Agalinis purpurea and Sedum glaucophyllum, 2 very tiny seeds. Skip, do you know the recipe for Tapla's gritty mix? Also I have seeds for Amorpha fruticosa and nana and Penstemon cobaea, and Astralagus propinquus if you're interested. Just trying to make sure you have enough variety, lol!!!











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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I am hoping you will take plenty of pictures of your progress. The hole. The hole with the liner and so on. My obedient plant is not in any kind of wet spot. But it is still spreading like crazy.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think because of our different locations that you and I might have a skightly varying concept of 'wet' Iris. I had the downspout in the backyard (which is all garden) buried. I had my obediant plants and blue flag iris in the spot where the pipe flowed out. While they were in that spot they grew like crazy and the obediant plant was very disobediant and spreading like crazy. Then I planted an empress tree and its roots somehow blocked the pipe, or maybe I ruined the pipe in a fit of rage when I was hacking the tree roots insanely with a miner's pick lol. I've moved the iris and obediant plants to other areas of the garden but they have been steadilly declining from not enough full sun or moisture. I grow the Phytostegia for the hummers, but it's been a few years since they've really put on a show.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, do you grow your Asclepias perennis and porterweeds in pots or in the ground? I read that Plantago laceolata has some medicinal properties. It's supposed to be good for treating coughs if you drink a tea that's made frim it.


http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/weeds/plants/eng_plantain.htm

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t grow them in pots. The milkweed is right outside my door. It’s pretty shady there. I also usually have some sort of pots with plants around there I dug up to plant somewhere else, so they get watered on a regular basis. I am very interested in the medicinal uses of all of the plants. I would start easy by putting some boneset on my little toes I constantly bump on something though.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, do you have that other weedy invasive plantain down there, Plantago major? It's everywhere up here, yet Buckeyes are still kind of rare around here. It's always special when you see one.


http://www.naturalmedicinalherbs.net/herbs/p/plantago-lanceolata=ribwort-plantain.php

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)












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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Gritty mix is 1 part granite grit (Gran-i-grit grower size), 1 part Turface MVP, and 1 part pine bark. The pine bark is screened over 1/4" or 3/8" hardware cloth to remove the big pieces, then screened over 1/8" mesh to remove the small pieces. The turface is screened over 1/16th window screen to remove the dust. Its a huge hassle to track down each part and make it, you can just order premade gritty mix on ebay if you dont need a ton of it. I am tempted to take up your offer for the seeds but I already have 20 trays of seeds planted. This is going to be me if I get any more lol:

(Photos by Phytostudio)

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I have a bunch of Plantago major and Plantago lanceolata in my yard, I think Iris' plant looks a little too big to be either one unless its just really happy where its growing. Actually it could be... i really dont like the seed heads on the narrow leaf plantain, they grow back like 2 days after mowing and are tick city.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think you might have already reached that point haha! I mean when your plants reach that size, you might have that many lol. Maybe it's because I'm already submerged way over my head, or something else. I'm done, unless something else really great comes along. (and hopefully it will). I was interested in the gritty mix because Tapla was talking about it on another forum. I had never heard of it before. I don't think I really need it for anything. I don't grow bonsai or trees in containers. I'm going to try his 511 mix with my containers. Yeah, all that screening just to make the gritty mix sounds like a huge hastle. What do you use for screening the woodchips? Monarda didyma would do better than other Monardas in a moist, clay soil situation. Hopefully I'm not boring anyone with this guy's videos but I think he's brilliant.

https://youtu.be/X8deOJsnvcc

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, you were going to say what species of plantain it was that you thought Iris had, but you never finished. I looked at all the Plantago species on bonap, both native and foreign. There are only 2 other native species that could even be contenders because all the other native Plantagos have very narrow leaves. There seems to be a lot of variability with Plantago lanceolata depending where it's growing and the conditions. There is only one other introduced species listed on bonap and that one, P. arenaria has very narrow leaves. The other 2 contenders. You may be right. Not sure at this point. I might walk around outside and see if I can find a lanceolata that looks like Iris's picture. That is pretty weird how fast the seed heads pop up after mowing. I haven't noticed any ticks around here but I avoid the red barberry because I heard they were tick magnets.


Plantago sparsiflora, Plantagineae, Plantaginaceae, Lamiales.


Plantago sparsiflora.


Plantago rugelii, Plantagineae, Plantaginaceae, Lamiales.


Plantago rugelii.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I just meant that it could be P. lanceolata.

I use 1/4" hardware cloth nailed to a square wood frame to screen all my pine bark. I bought a 1/8" mesh circular sifter that fits on top of a 5 gallon bucket for the second screening, because finding small rolls of 3/8" and 1/8" screen to make your own is next to impossible.

The recipe for gritty mix and 511 are in this thread, somewhere in the first post: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/1403195/container-soils-water-movement-and-retention-xvii

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)


I will just let some of them grow until they flower. That might help. Come to think of it, there are a lot of them I said I will just leave alone until I find out. The ornamental kale looking one from last Fall that had the unknown caterpillars on it is just about to. Seems I am having trouble posting pictures today. I am not the only one though. People in other threads have the problem too. I am going to try to do it later.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

When I was trying to post pictures last night it was taking forever. And my curser is going crazy on here again. Your plant for sure looks like a brassica. The flowers will have 4 petals. There is brassica seeds in some bird seed mixes, because the seeds that get missed grow all over the yard. It's edible, whatever it is. I also have millet and blue flax growing where I threw the seed. It's an annual blue flax, not the nicer perennial one. I should have a bumper crop of lambs quarters Chenapodium. You can eat the leaves and stems as greens and cook the seeds like rice. Can you show the leaves again?


https://youtu.be/HkmJuFImP6c

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Now I can't post comments!


https://youtu.be/HkmJuFImP6c

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



because!

https://youtu.be/HkmJuFImP6c.



why?



why?



A species which shares our contempt for pristine, artificial, manicured, sterile, dead lawns! It's also a potential cure for cancer. What do we do with them? Spray em.



because!



because!



why? Because ignorance is bliss???



because!



BECAUSE!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Thats it Jay, thats the goal in the video you posted. Im probably going to order like 40 bare root trees and shrubs in march haha. Its tough when the deer eat all the new plants and leave junk plants behind, and the neighbors are obsessed with curb appeal and making everything look clean, tidy and sterile.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t have a close up of the leave, but here is the whole plant. I am probably just going to deadhead the flowers when they are done and leave the plant in case some caterpillars want it again.

Ha, the picture trouble seems to be solved. This didn’t take long at all.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't think it's ornamental kale. It's too weedy looking. It looks like that bird seed brassica that grows in my yard. I don't know the name of the species. It's a throw away plant so I didn't bother getting an exact ID. I didn't put any bird seed out all winter. I have enough grasses and natives at the old garden to feed the birds. Here at the new place there are just way too many squirells and chipmunks. What kind of trees are you getting Skip? I got something from the National Arbor Day Society. Some of the free shrubs and trees they give away are non native.


https://wildseedproject.net/2017/05/small-flowering-trees/

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Well, here is a shopping cart I had queued up at Mid Atlantic Native Plant Farm

They only sell them in small sizes in multiples of 5... so each one x5. The hazelnut and gray dogwood are more tentative.

Rhus aromatica, Fragrant sumac
Nyssa sylvatica, Black Gum
Lindera benzoin, Northern Spicebush
Hamamelis virginiana, Witch Hazel
Corylus americana, American hazelnut, filbert
Cornus racemosa syn. paniculata, Gray Dogwood
Morella pennsylvanica, Northern bayberry


I want to see if I can find Lyonia mariana Staggerbush and/or Lyonia ligustrina Maleberry since those are native in the park down the street. Also thinking maybe some rooted Ilex opaca cuttings.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, you are probably right. Even though it looked better before it got flattened like that by all the rain. Skip, that’s a nice list. I really like Black Gum. Don’t have any. Not familiar with Staggerbush or Maleberry. Going to look that up.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Those are all beautiful native trees Skip. I will have to research them deeper.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That's terrible Iris. How is killing all the bees going to make America great again???

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Im guessing sorghum and cotton are big money in some states which allows them to get around EPA procedures. Hopefully the farmers or AG companies have enough sense not to use this product but who knows, theyll probably do it if the pest is going to impact their crops. 16.2 million acres are on the line.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

All I can say is that these kinds of news always want me to plant even more stuff.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Chamaeliriym luteum.

I have seeds for this beauty. It's native in Illinois, South Carolina, and New Jersey. I don't actually have them yet. I heard back from Mountain Gardens. They say that they give nice quantities, so hopefully I'll get more than enough to share. This place is the only place where you can get these seeds, as far as I know. The plant is also endangered. They are out of Apios priceana seeds. They harvest those in October and sell them when they're fresh. I'm walking over to mark the calander now Iris lol! I ordered a few other seeds from them but I have no memory of what species they were. I'm pretty sure that one of them was the other Apios, americanus. As for the others..... They must be really cool, I know that for sure lol! I seriously want to take out a lot of lawn in the back now too!!!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Big money is running the country! They need to ban that other nicotn pestiside, not add another one. Anyway, I checked the bins and the Tithonias have started sprouting after only 2 days. Nothing else was popping up yet. 2 of the Calotropis look very healthy, the other 2 are still small. I hope they pull through. We are supposed to get a huge snow storm tomorrow.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I will scribble a “remind Jay” on my October page. By then we might not remember what I want to remind you of though.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Thanks Iris. I just marked my calender for real. And I put a reminder in September.












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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Is the fourth picture the rusty patched bumble bee? On of my goals in life to see one in my garden. An unlikely one, I know.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Here's a nice talk by Doug Tallamy about food webs. I need more host plants now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wzcz8dWyBc

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yes Iris. You are correct. It's a beautiful bee.

Added: These were the other seeds I ordered if anyone is interested, Apios americana, Calycanthus floridus, Laportea canadesis and Ocimum tenuiflorum, holy basil. The Laportea was one of the species I couldn't find seeds for anywhere. It's the nettle for the Red Admirals.



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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I guess I've always been a little confused about the concern for bee keepers and their bees, since those are not native bees. And it's sorta mystifying why our native bees cannot do the same that the imported ones do. I suppose because our native bees don't make giant hives like the others?

If I remember, this coming June I will get a photo of rusty patched bumble bee in my garden and post it.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

You have them in your garden? Lucky you. Rare find.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I posted this video about the rusty patched bumblebee before.

https://youtu.be/P7TF8PvAdnE


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I will watch it tonight. Trying to fix up some of my little trees while it is not raining. It’s either cold and raining or warm and raining lately. Throw a thunderstorm with heavy rain in the middle. It was a loud one this morning.


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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

The main factor in the hyperbole over honey bees, Dandy is money. Most of our native bees are solitary and cannot be neatly packaged into wooden boxes and trucked around the country. Nor do they produce honey which can be bottled and sold.

World wide, European honey bees (Apis mellifera) are showing strong population growth. As they are baisically a domestic species, they stand about the same risk of extinction as cows and chickens.

An alarming number of native bee species are experiencing significant declines however and someof them are facing extinction, if they aren't already. Whats more, through the spread of disease and competition, honey bees are contributing to the decline if many of these native bees. Again, if it wasn't for the money aspect, I would bet they would be classified as an invasive species.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Thanks Zach, I like succinct explanations. There aren't any bee keepers around here so maybe that's why I have the rusty patched in my area.

Food for thought.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Anybody know what this hopefully plant but probably weed is? The lower leaves looked like violet to me. The others don’t.

Otherwise I might have to go to Name that Plant. Why are there so many new to me things this year? All that rain?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I have to apologize for copying your plants :) It is always taking me a while to look up all the seeds and plants you are getting. The Apios looked so interesting, I ordered myself a tuber.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Its hard to see the leaves Iris, is it a garlic mustard rosette, or multiple rosettes in one clod?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I want everyone to copy me and grow the same natives too. A couple boxes came in. One is the Lilum superbum, I don't know what the other is. Those arrow and heart shapes on that plant remind me of pickeral weed. It's aquatic. Maybe with all that rain you are starting to get aquatic weeds now lol. There was a nursery that sells the Apios priceana. That species has bigger beans than the americana. I like the idea of perennial vegetables.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Never mind, Skip sounds more right. It is hard to see. After blowing it up, I can't believe I thought it was pickeral weed! The leaf texture doesn't look right for garlic mustard. I would just put it on name that plant. It could be in the Ranunculaceae, or maybe Malvaceae or even Brassicaceae.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Here are some pictures of the leaves.



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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, do you have seeds for the Apios or tubers?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I ordered seeds for the Apios americana from Mountain Gardens in North Carolina. I did see that they sold tubers online. Those would be easier. Hopefully I'll find a priceana plant. The leaf pictures just add to the confusion. The one leaf looks like parsley, but the others don't. I was looking at the root structures of garlic mustard and they didn't seem to fit either. I would just put it on name that plant. I'm sure you should get a fast answer, but the plant has me stumped, I've never seen it around here.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

With my luck with seeds, I ordered the tuber. I started my man of the Earth seeds. I have so many weeds, but this one is another new one. Actually there are a couple of these.

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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

Haha, Dandy, luckily for you this time, I'm typically much longer winded.

I have to take a bit of umbrage with your rusty patched video, Jay. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is an exceptionally underfunded and understaffed agency. We don't have huge fancy parks with expensive lodges and campgrounds. No armies of rangers and interpretive guides hosting full schedules of programs. Wildlife refuges are typically set aside in hard to reach, out of the way locations and we don't get entire series on the travel channel dedicated to advertising for us. Most of the work we do goes virtually unnoticed by the public and our appropriations and recognition reflect that. Painting the picture that the USFWS "couldn't be bothered" to respond to the Xerces Society I think is a bit unfair. The USFWS manages more acres of land and water than any other conservation agency in the entire world and we do it with very little manpower and even less money. Unfortunately this means that not everything gets be priority number one and while the men and women of the service are extremely dedicated to the work we do, we're not superheros. (Okay, maube that was more than a "little umbrage."

In early, 2017, the rusty patched bumblebee became the firs bee to be listed by the USFWS as an endangered species,

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Zach, seems the people here are familiar with you. Do you mind sharing what your occupation is? I am just asking because my younger daughter is going to graduate in May with a major in Wildlife and Fisheries Biology and minor in Entemology.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, Hydrocotle ranunculoides???

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha. That would be something.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I don't think that's it. It may be something else in the carrot family. I should get my guide out.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am going to try to post it on Name that Plant. The forecast is pretty much another whole week of rain, I will never get ahead.

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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

I am the lead range land technician with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service at the Colorado Front Range National Wildlife Refuge Complex. Boy, that's a really long title, I don't know that I've ever actually spelled it out before haha. The executive summary is that I'm a USFWS range tech. Mostly I work out of Rocky Mountain Arsenal NWR north of Denver, but we also manage two other refuges in the Denver area, Rocky Flats and Two Ponds. My overall goal is habitat restoration and management, which includes invasive species control and planting and restoring native plant communities (generally grassland) in formerly contaminated and highly disturbed locations (both the Arsenal and Rocky Flats are former superfund cleanup sites).

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ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado

And congratulations to your daughter, Iris! Working in this field can be incredibly frustrating and sometimes downright defeating (especially in the current political climate). Getting your foot in the door can also be difficult, with many years spent doing seasonal work and requiring a person to be "flexible" with their location (a former co-worker and still good friend of mine lived in 8 different states in as many years). Despite all that, it is immensely rewarding and getting to spend everyday outdoors in unique landscapes with unique species makes it what I consider the best job in the world.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Zach, thank you for the information. And thank you so much for your service.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Zach I appreciate what you guys do with the limited resources you have. I see the basically unlimited work there is in our landscapes and I hope some day we can shift funds away from building walls and defense spending to cleaning up all the messes in our shared environment.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Zach, it's nice to know there are guys like you out there trying to clean up our mistakes. I worked outside for the park district one summer. It is really great having a job where you can be outside in the sun getting exersize.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

My daughter is planning on going the insect conservation route. She has spent the last three Summers in Peru and Paraguay. Good thing she found out the first year that she doesn’t have a knack for mist netting and banding birds. Funding for this is tough. Good thing she likes the simple life.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, you never showed the top of the plant here. That would have made it easier

It's snake something? Sanigala? Apiaceae. SANICULA. I'll see what they say lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well Jay, I read stuff on Name that plant often. And people get scolded if they just post pictures like this, because you really can’t see details. I forgot to post that it didn’t smell, the leaves are not stiff and there is no sap. Sigh. With all these plants I have, someday I will ask the “perfect” question.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I think the pictures are good enough to get an ID. The leaves seem all crunched together. It's hard to see a complete leaf shape. I don't think it's Sanicula. Those round scalloped leaves don't fit. It's another of those weird weeds. I don't know what it is but someone over there might. If not, you will have to wait until it blooms lol. How many weeds are on your wait til it blooms list already ? lol

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris those leaves are all from the same plant? He said the second picture was a violet, but if all the leaves are from the same plant it might be something like Ranunculus abortivus.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

They are! The rounded ones really looked like some of my violet ones to me. But they are the lowest (I suppose first) leaves. I dug one of them up and rinsed it to make sure they are the same plant.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Did you tell him?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's your thread Iris. I always get in trouble when I comment over there lol. I'm in self imposed exile for,....a little while. It's very tempting!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I didn’t get a notification, but checked and replied. I hope it’s not another one of the wait until it flowers. I am going to have a prairie of weird, unidentied and probably invasive plants.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Just dig out all the weeds you don't like. There is another species, Ranunculus allegheniensis, it could be that too. I'm pretty sure it won't take long for this one. They usually flower very early so you won't have long to wait either way.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

How do I know what I don’t like if I don’t know what it is? I found some nice plants popping up I kept.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I see your point. You don't want to get rid of an important host plant for something. A species might depend on one sole plant species for it's existance. The buttercups seem to be used a lot by lady beetles which are nice to have around when you are growing a lot of milkweeds.




https://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/weeds/plants/sf_buttercup.htm

On the other hand, I could be waaaay off lol.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I once had the invasion of the evil Ranunculus in two of my gardens. It was truly evil. Creeping along the ground right under my nose until one day I wondered what it was that had suddenly taken over all the open ground. It seemed to be everywhere at once. Like creeping Charlie on steroids. A real nightmare to eradicate and I still find it once in a while.

Your plant has similar leaves but doesn't seem to have those tentacles on it.

Zach-you are in great esteem in my eyes. A demanding but hopefully rewarding job.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yeah Dandy, the same thing happened with Ranunculus in the shady part of the yard. They were spreading like strawberries and self seeding. I think I got most of them. The only other weedy plant in that area is an ugly Geum. I think that's mostly under control now too.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Red Admiral host plants. Urticalean rosids.


Red Admiral eggs, Vanessa atalanta.



Urtica dioica, Urticaceae, Rosales. (stinging nettle)



Laportea canadensis, Urticaceae, Rosales. ( Canadian wood nettle, Canada nettle, wood nettle)



Red Admiral caterpillar, Vanessa atalanta.



Pilea pumila, Urticaceae, Rosales.

(clear weed)


Boehmeria cylindrica, Boehmerieae, Urticaceae, Rosales.



Red Admiral crysalis, Vanessa atalanta.



Red Admiral Butterfly, Vanessa atalanta.



Red Admiral Butterfly.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Great pictures and info. Must say the only thing called nettle I have around here is the European dead nettle (or so I think) At least it disappears as soon as it gets to 80 degrees.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I cant wait until its 80 degrees again! I wonder if deer eat clearweed and canadian wood nettle. Interesting plants but not sure I could grow it right now. I think Im going to have to do the "spray repeatedly for a growing season" procedure to get rid of a lot of my weeds.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I hear you. The weather this winter is miserable. I try to avoid using herbicides. I did however painstakingly paint wisteria, privet, honeysuckle, pear and English ivy stumps that were too big to dig up. Didn’t do anything. Very frustrating. The people at Lowe’s wanted to sell me something that would clear everything for a year. That’s a bit too scary.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I would rather not use any herbicides as well. Im not sure I will, I was looking at site prep guides by the Xerces society and it has the recommendation to spray with glyphosate on multiple occasions to kill the persistent weeds. There are fewer "organic" options when dealing with shade and part shade areas, solarizing is not really possible for example, and vines and woody sprouts will go right through mulch and cardboard.

Timing according to a plant's growth cycle is often important when applying herbicide to the cut stem and those are all tough plants. You might need to apply multiple times, or with combinations of herbicides. I wouldnt use any long lasting herbicides either. I found one organic one that looks promising but it wont kill the roots, so i would have to spray it many times to starve the plants root system. Might as well just weed wack it to the ground at that point.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s a bit discouraging sometimes, isn’t it? Love my next door neighbors on one side. They actually do have flowers. They usually had a fenced in vegetable bed. She gave me the hornworms from her tomatoes to put on my Jimson weed instead of killing them. Doesn’t want to do vegetables anymore, so the husband was to put the little trees popping up in their yard in there until they are deer proof. Looking at it today, he has a couple of privets in there. I did give them “ bringing nature home”.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

On the not so bright note I just saw this on a wall when we were moving some furniture. Sorry for the picture quality. Looks to me like some moth that would eat clothes. Hopefully my husband’s and not mine. He has way too many.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Where is a spider when you need one?

My neighbors have a lot of exotic plants but most have opted to keep their large trees including oaks, maples, beech, pine, and tulip trees. It was definitely one of those 1950s tree lawn inspired neighborhoods. The trees give it a kind of enclosed feel, and hopefully provides enough food for the wildlife.

One immediate neighbor was way into gardening when she was younger and has a nice more traditional garden with elephant ears, rhododendrons, daffodils and lillies and a lot more decorative stuff. She currently hates me for putting up a fence but Im hoping after I garden along it she will get over it. The other neighbor has a million aborvitaes for screening, nice hardscaping, a line of white pines between our properties, a gazebo, and throws loud pool parties. He also harbors that dense tangle of honey suckle, multiflora, norway maple, and white mulberry next to his white pines.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

This Wild Seed Progect place has Aconitum uncinatum seeds. The deer don't eat them. Woodthrush Natives has a lot of cool natives and they have a bunch of rare plants native to the Appalachians. They have plants of the Chrysogonum virginianum but in the fine print it says that it's the non spreading variety. I had no idea there was a non spreading variety. I think you wanted the kind that spreads all over,right, Skip? There was going to be a big snow storm but now it's going to be mostly rain.

https://wildseedproject.net/

http://www.woodthrushnatives.com/


Chrysogonum virginianum var. virginianum.



Allium allegheniense.


Aconitum uncinatum.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Pilea is probably the most ornamental member of the nettle family Urticaceae. Some attractive tropical Pilea species are grown as houseplants.



Pilea pumila.



Pilea involucrata.



Pilea mollis.



Pilea peperomioides.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Socotra, off the coast of Yemen. Its unusual plants and butterflies. Native to Socotra.



Socotra.



Dracaena cinnabari, Nolinoideae, Asparagaceae, Asparagales, Socotra dragon tree.



Ceropegia fusca, Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales.



Coelides anchises. Over 180.000 species of lepidoptera have been described worldwide.



Adenium species, Wrightieae, Apocynoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales.



Euphorbia spiralis, Euphorbiaceae, Malpighiales, spiral cactus Euphorbia.



Acraea neobule, Wandering Donkey Acraea. More species of butterflies use the bean family, Fabaceae as host plants more than any other plant family. The grass family, Poaceae is the second most used plant family.



Caralluma socotrana, Asclepiadoideae, Apocynaceae, Gentianales.



Coelides anchises jucunda.



Convolvulus sarmentosus, Convolvuleae, Convolvulaceae, Solanales.



Eurema brigitta.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Whoa, those are some prehistoric looking plants. Looks very dry there. Reminds me of the scenes from Madagascar from Planet Earth. Of course that bindweed-looking plant survives haha.

Thanks for the heads up for the seeds, I will check out the Aconitum. Wood Thrush sells plants for the Aconitum, I was going to check back in the spring to see if they come back in stock. Bowman Hill had green and gold last year but its a ground cover, and I dont know where to plant it right now where it wouldnt get smothered by other plants. I have to plan and execute my plantings section by section otherwise I'll work a tiny bit on a million areas and nothing will get done. My front bed will be completely covered if I can get my seed grown plants planted, then the roadside bed all the way back that transitions from dry sun to moist shade will take up a lot of time, then my morning wet sun corner area along the fence, the strip along the driveway, along the east side of the house, the back of the lot... writing that out, I can see my time and focus are already divided!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

This sounds great. I can’t wait to see the progress. Whenever I can go outside with the weather as it is, I am all over the place. Can really just scoot around the outside edges of my flower beds. Otherwise I will just sink in the mud and compact the soil. Wish I could focus on one part at a time.

Jay, these are cool looking plants. The Dracaena cinnabari look like giant mushrooms.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Time is a big issue. Don't need any distractions. Same situation here. The hellstrip will be easy to plant compared to most else. As you start working back towards the shade a lot more thought has to go into it. As far as prep well, I don't know. It could be Woodstea style. Dig a hole, take 2 steps, dig another hole lol!

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Lol, progress pics are most likely going to be a whole bunch of barely visible plugs and young tree starts in the landscape, crowded by weeds. I did start to come up with a plan for my side yard.



Brown are paths.
Light green are trees and shrubs currently planted.
Red are shrubs that will be removed/moved.
Dark green is where I will move 2 blackhaw viburnums currently X'd in red.
Yellow are switchgrass currently planted.
Orange are perennials currently planted.
Blue will be kept in lawn.

All the areas around the paths are fair game for planting :)

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Looks nice. It should be beautiful in a few years when the vines are covering the fence. I haven't drawn anything out yet. I have places for all the plants, just don't know how I'm going to group them together yet. Do you already have the Viburnums?

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

What's the tree growing inside the fence at the corner? Seems it will outgrow that pretty fast. Maybe too big already to transplant unless it is a "weed" . I consider 50% of trees around here to be weeds, which includes my favorite weed - Oak. Off with their heads.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Dandy, that mishapen tree inside the corner of the fence is a black walnut, yes a weed. The little one outside is also a black walnut. Oak is a keystone species, providing more food to birds and food webs than anything else, but diversity is good too.

Jay, yeah the blackhaws are already planted, I just have to move them to those spots, the yellow-green tree drawn in is a flowering dogwood whip thats already planted in there.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

So are all the plants you are planning Black walnut proof? I don’t have a black walnut, so I am not familiar with what works. Just read somewhere that something like Baptista doesn’t.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Yes the walnuts are a pain, and everything going in has to be black walnut tolerant. Even if I take out the little ones there are 2 way bigger ones behind them to the left. There is a black walnut at each corner of the property, its really limiting. My soil would be primetime for heaths, blueberries, rhododendrons and laurels without them.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Allelpathic deer!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, do you grow dill and fennel for the Swallowtails. I'm planting bronze fennel this year. It doesn't form a bulb like the green kind. I have about 15 Mexican sunflowers that have sprouted. I hope they draw in more Swallowtails.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have bronze fennel and parsley. And of course ordered the golden Alexander.

Ha ha, I don’t have the deer like this, but I have a pig!


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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, if your sunflowers already sprouted, they will be 2 feet by the time they can go outside! I really love how soft the leaves of them are.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I like your pig! The last time I grew Mexican sunflowers under lights they grew slow. They were in big pots with taller plants kind of shading them. 2 feet is a good size. We might have to wait until your plant blooms before anyone else tries to ID it. I'm going to check out the flowers real good so I'm ready lol! Two people kind of aggreed with me.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

You are rocking it! I was going to ask how confident you are with that one. Since it would be a native, I would leave some. They are in a grassy area, close to a flower bed inside the dog fence (meaning I am not planting anything I really care about there since the dogs might just mess them up). Going to check what time of year they would flower.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I'm pretty confident. I just have to wait. Nobody has disagreed yet, that's a good sign. I had a plant last year that they couldn't ID. I had to wait a long time for it to bloom. It was a wood aster.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Well. I still have some open. Like the one that has been there for more than 2 years and still has not flowered.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Do you have a picture of that plant?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It was this thread. Maybe it will flower this Summer. It’s still there and looking the same for now.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5580975/slow-growing-weed-id-help-please

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Skip, what does it mean that oak is a keystone species? To me all it provides is shade and acorns. I prefer to take all that real estate it consumes and replace it with multiples of fruiting shrubs, flowers and grasses/sedge.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Dandy, what did you do with the wood from all those trees? I was looking at the Minneapolis weather. It's cold up there!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am personally still in the phase of planting oaks. The only ones that were here and small were water oaks. Now I have white, red, shumard, burr, post and as kind of an experiment a live oak. Oh. And an overcup oak seedling.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Nice, I have 3 pin oaks and planted 5 chestnut oak seedlings last year. I am trying to get swamp white oak or white oak this year at the arbor day tree giveaway.

Dandy, I posted that Doug Tallamy video earlier. Its really long so I understand if you didnt watch it. He talks about food webs, an oak tree can support a greater variety of caterpillars and an overall greater number of caterpillars than just about any other plant. For a lot of birds, their young can only eat soft bodied insects like caterpillars. They fly from tree to tree constantly searching for food for their offspring. Caterpillars are also more nutritionally dense than every other type of insect. Other types of vegetation can still produce lots of insects and caterpillar food for them too though. I am reading some stuff now that attempts to refute some of the hypothesis by Doug Tallamy that native plants host more insects and moths than non-native, interesting stuff but have to look into the citations a little more.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It sounds like Antarctica outside and a bunch of bin tops blew off. I have to put on my parka and go out and deal with it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)




I'm not messing with my oaks. Don't want to piss off any zealous, fanatical Druids. Woe unto anybody who comes between them and their sacred mistletoes!!!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Aristolochia serpentaria. There are 2 variations. It's rare and listed as endangered in some states. Bonap doesn't have it included with the other Aristolochia species? Most important, it's a host plant for the
Pipevine Swallowtail. That butterfly species is either rare or absent here, but if more people started cultivating its host plants things could change for the better.


Aristolochia serpentaria var. serpentaria.


Aristolochia serpentaria var. serpentaria.


Aristolochia serpentaria var. hastata.


Aristolochia serpentaria var. hastata.


Pipevine Swallowtail Butterfly.

Pipevine Swallowtail Butterfly!

Pipevine Swallowtail Caterpillar.

Pipevine Swallowtail Crysalis.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have had my first ever Pipevine Swallowtail caterpillars last year. Really cool looking caterpillars.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You are lucky. I've had the wild ginger and pipevine for several years and have yet to see a cat. Something was eating my wild ginger but I couldn't see what it was. It's pretty obvious that the butterfly populations in the south are doing better than the ones up here. The wind has been blowing at 60mph for about 24 hours. I lost a few bin tops. Need a new plan. ROCKS!!!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Aralia nudicaulis.





https://youtu.be/2AQJI8szQ-0

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Will wild ginger grow in permanent shade, like the north side of a wall? This is another one I've wanted but havent gotten around to getting yet. I wonder if I can get pipevine and wild ginger going the cats will show up.

I've been eying up Aralia spinosa lately but it looks like it can get weedy.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It might. My plants are in full shade once the trees leaf out. They seem to get enough sunlight, watering is their issue.. I would try a small planting to obseve.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It felt pretty windy here. At around 20mph with some gusts it was just a breeze compared to you. After 10 straight days of rain, it didn’t keep me from working in the yard. Sorry about your lost lids.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I have lots of A. nudicaulis, do you want some seeds this year?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Definitely! I want my ground level to have a lot of cool interesting species.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Welcome to my nightmare. I underestimated the effect the weather might have. I think the bins all have tops for now. It's too cold and dark to do anything more about it now. I came close to getting frostbite when I was out earlier. I bought some extra large ziplock bags. They cost more than the bins lol.



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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Next year just build a big cold frame!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I am feeling for you! On the bright side it was just the lids instead of the bins themselves toppling over.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

My old sunny garden, several years ago.


Echinacea, Asclepias curassavica, annual Ageratum, Melampidium, Salvia azurea, Tithonia, Tagetes, Salvia gregerii, Portulaca, Mirabilis, Perennial Digitalis, Gazania, brown eyed Susan. Buddleia davidii, Nicotiana, Senna hebacarpa, Lythrum salicaria. Rudbeckia triloba, Zinnia. Canada wild rye.



Aristolochia, Lonicera, Celosia, Agastache canna, Hemerocallis fulva, Lilum auratum, Gazania, Kniphofia, Opuntia, Eryngium yuccifolium, Origanum vulgare, Asclepias incarnata.



Southwest corner with shade from redbud and overgrown euonymus vine. Hanging pot with Fucshia, other pots are shrimp plant, Lantana and Scaveola. This is the corner where I grow the spring ephemerals under the shade of the redbud. You can see the blue cohosh at the edge. The only other recognisable plant here is Cosmos sulphurus.



On the left, red Petunias, Cuphea, prairie Zinnias, Cannas and Lobelia cardinalis. This photo is good for showing the spread of pipevines. On the left the vine was originally planted at the very south end of the fence. It's now spread all the way to the other side of the Lonicera. Overall though I wouldn't say they are very invasive, that's to say if I was really determined to get rid of it, it would be relatively easy compared to getting rid of say, a trumpet vine. on the left Silene coronaria, yarrow, Gaillardia aristata, Liatris spicata, Tropaeolum. The big thing blocking the fence is a white mulberry. I hate mulberries but it's a good screen and I love my privacy more than I hate mulberries. The good news is it's male.



Blue flag iris, Itea, Zizia, Hostas, Weigelia. I remember when this was. I had a row of Thugas growing along the south fence for a screen. After having them for 15 years they all died one year. They were just about to the point of becomming a perfect screen. I threw a bunch of Cosmos seeds and other stuff in that area on the left so it wouldn't look empty after cutting down all the Arborviteaes. A lot has changed. I've taken out most of the non natives and have added several new natives. The redbud was cut down. Now a lot of the plants get more afternnon sun. The mulberry has gotten enormous and some of the branches are shading the back yard too much, so I want to cut them off. A lot of suckers grew from the redbud stump and I need to cut them all to the ground before the spring wildflowers emerge.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

This is looking beautiful!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Mountain Gardens still has Apios priceana plants I hope. I put in a bare root ( tuber) request. They grow all their plants in the ground, so they have nice root systems. The wind finally died down. It was brutal yesterday.

Apios priceana.











Native range of Apios priceana.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I like your garden pics Jay, nice to see how you did the paths, edging and plants. Thats the kind of design stuff Im not really sure what to do with. Let me know if Mountain Gardens had the bareroots in stock.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I will. The A. americana has a much wider range. The beans on the americana are smaller, but they grow new tubers so americana is the best species for harvesting tubers. Priceana forms only one giant tuber.


Native range of Apios americana.


Apios americana.











Relief, no more bin covers flew away overnight lol!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Speaking of tubers...Since I ordered mine on Etsy, they have already shipped. Well shipping label created. What should I do with them? I think if they look completely dormant it doesn’t hurt to put them into the ground, right? What if they are already showing a bit of green? Put them in pots? If so, I am going to have to pick up some potting soil. So I would like to be prepared.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Since it's warmer down there you could probably just plant it in the ground unless it has new growth. If it has new growth I'd use a pot. Or you can put it in the fridge. I just put all the bare root lilies in the fridge. They are still dormant. I repotted the Calotropis plants. Most of the seeds under the lights are germinating. The Dregeas and Tweedias are sprouting.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I would plant them in the ground either way, what's the risk if its already sprouting, is it too cold there?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

The lowest temperature in the next ten days is 31. The highs are wobbling around between 40 and 69. It’s really a weird winter. Today was really nice at 63 degrees. No rain and almost no wind.

Peach tree is starting to flower, too. They always freeze it seems.


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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

It was super windy here today, my neighbor had a massive tree blow over, somehow it fell perfectly in the center of his yard and didnt hit any of the other big trees trees around it. I think it was a silver maple that had one of its big trunks cut off a while ago. The wind did him a favor. Im already trying to think of some place I can use the wood chips.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip's right. Just plant them in the ground either way. I was wondering how far east those winds would travel. The large ziplock bags are huge. I can fit 3 bins in one bag. I think in about a week I'll repot the Tithonias into 3 bigger pots of 5 plants each and keep them at the outer edge where the light isn't concentrated. That way they will grow a little slower. I had to leave the top off of them, they were already touching it.

https://unlcms.unl.edu/ianr/extension/hort-update/Bareroot

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Alright, will do! I am moving perennials around within my yard at this time of year, but wasn’t really sure about this. I have everything from the nurseries set to ship the second week of April. My mail carrier will be busy.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Im hoping for a dry week before I start moving things. I think last spring the best I got was 2 days no rain and then I was digging on the 3rd day before it started raining again. The soil is absolutely saturated now, every time it rains there is a new puddle in my yard I've never seen before.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t think there was a dry week since the end of September. It never dried up. Just had ten days of rain in a row. Next rain (3 days of it) starting Wednesday. I am living in my rubber boots.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It was muddy here until those arctic winds blew in. Now everything is frozen solid. The windowbox broke off from the house lol. I did stuff s lot of plants in it haha! Might as well go with the flo and change that up too. I'm thinking a trellis with a beautiful flowering native vine. That likes shade. Things will be looking wild though, so I could go the Apallachia, moonseed route?

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's doable. 20 ft. Perfect!


Menispermum canadense, Menispermaceae, Ranunculales
Moonseed Vine.



In flower.



In fruit.

It's an option to consider. Haven't looked into its value to wildlife. That is always the deal breaker! I'm going to look at this book, Native Plants of the Midwest by Alan Branhagen. It has plants for different areas of the garden. I'm sure they have a list of native vines for shade.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/trees/plants/moonseed.htm

These are some species that depend on Menispermum canadense for their survival....



Moonseed Moth, Plusiodonta compressipalpis, Noctuidae, Lepidoptera, Insecta, Arthropoda, Animalia.


Moonseed Moth Caterpillar, Plusiodonta compressipalpis. Moonseed Moth Caterpillars chew the leaves off the vine and eat them later after thry've dried.


Hyperplatys aspersa, Acanthocinini, Lamiinae, Corambycidae, Coleoptera, Insecta, Arthropoda, Animalia, a long horned beetle.



Cedar Waxwing, Bombycilla cedrorum, Passeriformes.


Eastern Towhee, Pipilo erythrophthalmus, Passeriformes.


Brown Thrasher, Toxostoma rufum, Passeriformes.


Wild Turkey, Meleagris gallopavo, Phasianidae.

I think the moonseed is too rough looking for an entryway. Maybe something more refined like virgin's bower. I grew it a long time ago. It's a beautiful vine.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ha ha. I thought you were done ordering plants for this Spring, too. Wonder if Javi put in her milkweeds seeds since you said her other ones didn’t quiet look like it.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Yay!!! Iris, they finally ID'd your rubbery plant. That was a hard one! I would have never thought Verbascum. A video and then native lilium growing instructions.

https://youtu.be/mn6kZCFTwE8

http://www.wildlifegardeners.org/forum/north-american-native-plant-propagation-winter-sowing/9803-germination-lilium-canadense-lilium-michiganense-lilium-superbum.html

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/grow-false-unicorn-seed-71397.html


Lilium michiganense.



Chamaelirium luteum, Unicorn Root, Fairy Wand, Polystichum acrostichoides, Christmas Fern and Caulophyllum thalictroides, Blue Cohosh. The stem leaflets on the Unicorn Root are off the hook! The rocks edging the beds in my pictures. Over the years they sink deeper into the soil and then you have to excavate them and then redo the edges. It's not a big deal.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

The extra large zip lock bags are huge! I can fit 3 bins in one bag. They are the backup for a worst case scenario lol!


I like this vine for part shade, Clematis virginiana, Virgin's Bower Vine.








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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Those are interesting vines, but from the MO Botanical Garden descriptions, it sounds like they can spread quite aggressively, including sprawling over the ground. I have enough of that going on in my yard with virginia creeper, poison ivy, rubus hispidus and Japanese honeysuckle, thank you.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I grew the Clematis virginica once. The roots didn't spread much, but it did sprawl all over. I'm just going to reattach the window box. You have an invasive bramble too lol? The Japanese honeysuckles never reached here, but we're swamped with the invasive bush honeysuckles. Have you tasted those dewberries?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

They arent invasive technically, but they do spread everywhere. I think I have alot of Rubus allegheniensis too. I haven't eaten any. I see the berries on the blackberry but rarely on the dewberry.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)
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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I could probably use a couple of goats. Found more unknown, at least to me, weeds. New ones every day! This one today looked kind of familiar. Like I have seen pictures of it before, just don’t remember where. I didn’t know where googling “plant that looks like fuzzy cabbage” would lead me, but I think it’s Mullein. Not sure what kind. Jay, I should join you in learning the medicinal uses of plants. I have no idea where all this stuff is coming from. One of them was a very impressive (scary?) size already. Took pictures in case I have to venture to the Name that Plant forum again. But Mullein narrows it down. Just have to look a bit more.


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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

Looks like mullein. Story is that it came over on the Mayflower.

I had Virgins Bower crawling all over at my last place. What I wanted to try-but I moved too soon- was to tie strings up in a tree branch and train the vines to climb the strings. Supposed to make a wall of green/white. A real show stopper.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There's a big white mulberry growing in the easment at the back of my yard. I'm trying to train a trumpet vine to climb it. I saw a tree covered with trumpet vine and it looked cool. I hate both species but they are screening my yard. I have wires connecting trellises to the gutter so the Clematis can climb to the roof. Iris, did you take any pictures of the new weeds. I'm pretty sure that one is Verbascum thapsus. I think it's the only wooly mullien. I'm going to double check. V. olympicum looks similar. I got a few books about medicinal plants from the library and I just ordered a book about medicinal tonic plants. Most of those Mountain Gardens videos are about medicinal plants, and the guy is always showing books that he recommends. I think the names of 2 of the best authors are Richo Tech and Ron Teegarden. I read that goats love eating that Apios americana vine. I think it's cool having a bunch of medicinal plants that you can harvest and use every day.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, sorry, I messed up the names. It's Ron Teeguarden and....

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I dug up a smaller one to take pictures of the roots in case I would need that to ID (the Name that Plant professionals, including you, are teaching me well). Stuck it in a pot in case it is something I want to keep.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I also took this picture of a ladybug. Texted it to my daughter. She said it’s Hesperomyces virescens. Seems College is not wasted on her. But my eyes are crossing trying to find out more about that.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

It's hard enough trying to remember all the plant names! And they keep changing! I messed up the other name too. His real name is Richo Cech.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

They do change constantly. So do the insect names. One of my latest books apologizes for probably being outdated by the time it goes into print. These weird little things like fungus on insects always make me curious to find out more. Next thing I know I am stuck in 25 pages of research papers with 2 pages of my scribbled notes of words to Google.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

You should join i naturalist. You're already doing all the research lol. There are some bizarre fungi that infect insects and people (x files). I have some dried Verbascum thapsis leaves for herbal remedies and also some dried Lobelia inflata. The mullien is good for clearing congestion if you smoke it, and the Lobelia reduces inflamation. Lobelia inflata can make you throw up if taken in large doses. I think they call it barfweed or barfplant lol. I'm growing such a huge number of natives for the wildlife that I think it's ok to grow a few Chinese herbs for my own health and longevity. Not any plants that could escape and wreak havoc. It would be amazing if I got catterpillars on some of them! The Materia Medica is the bible of Chinese herbal medicine. It's a huge book and it costs around $144. I'm not that serious to shell out cash for it currently lol! Some of the native plants that I've been growing for years have medicinal value like the Geranium maculatum and Solomon's seal. Probably all the native plants each have value. A few medicinal plants I'm growing are the dwarf ginseng, Astralagus propinquus and Ocimum tenuiflorum, Holy Basil. I'd like to maybe add a couple new medicinal plants every year. I'd like to get the Codonopsis, poor mans ginseng. It's easy to grow. Some of the better, more powerful herbs need a climate like yours Iris. The Gotu Kola, Centella asiatica, and Fo Ti like warmer climates and if you use them regularly you can live to be 200 lol. That's a story that I heard. A myth? Some ancient Chinese man used Fo Ti all his life and lived to be 250, and had 23 wives. Take it with a grain of salt lol. The Centella asiatica is in the carrot family Apiaceae. It has round, scalloped leaves and actually looks more like creeping charlie. I wonder if the Swallowtail cats would eat it?


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Specimen #201. Hypoxis hirsuta, Hypoxidaceae, Asparagales, Yellow Star Grass. Another rockin native lily that has stayed off the radar, until now!!! It's on next years wish list. My plate runneth over!






Very nice wide range.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/prairie/plantx/yl_stargrassx.htm

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)



Verbascum thapsus, Scrophulariaceae, Lamiales.


Verbascum olympicum, Scrophulariaceae, Lamiales.

These 2 species are similar. The leaves on the V. olympicum are smooth so your weed must be Verbascum thapsus. Both species are invasive aliens in North America.

Verbascum thapsus usually has a single flower spike.

Verbascum olympicum has multiple flowering spikes.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

I like Verbascum. It is an introduced species but I would hesitate to use the word invasive to describe it since they dont compete well with other plants. I like seeing it along railroads and old lots because it is such a big showy plant.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

It's very invasive out here. Has a very large footprint for what it accomplishes.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Wooly mullien is a killer. It was brought here to kill fish. A practice I think is despicable. It had already spread so much that by the 1800's most Ameicans thought it was native. When they grow in mass their huge leaves stop any other natives from growing. Their deep taproots survive fires so they're invading all the native prairie species that depend on fire to keep taller competing plants down. There are parts of the country where it's becoming a big problem, like Nebraska. It was just a few years ago that I thought of it as a cool looking architechtural plant and wanted to grow it, but now I see it for the wildlife killer that it is. A good species for heated debates. Those basal leaves take up a lot of usable ground space.

https://neinvasives.com/species/plants/common-mullein


Verbascum thapsus. Invasive species. Brought here to kill fish. A despicable, ungodly practice. It's still busy killing living organisms today. Mainly native plant species.


One Verbascum thapsus plant can produce 240.000 seeds. Its seeds can remain dormant in the soil bank for decades.



Colonization.



Plague, scurge, infection, contaminent. From sea to shining sea!



I am not trying to be argumentative. It does worry me to know that a lot of people think Verbascum thapsus is a native species, or that it's not a threat. I'd rather eradicate it from here now, than be mourning the complete loss of yet another species later on, when it's too late! If I'm gunna have sap(blood) on my hands it's gunna be thapsus sap! I guess the new normal is if you want to grow alien invasive plants you better keep them penned in or face the consequences. I guess that's why I get so mad when they carry on about all those foofed out Verbascums on other forums. It's because of my hate for thapsus. I was going in a Verbascum direction until I came to my senses. I think I even ordered V. olympicum seeds at one point. Think about all the cool natives we have here that are in the same family? There are several. NEXT!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Iris, I get this catalog from Richter's Herbs. They sell a lot of hard to find medicinal plants. They have other kinds of plants too like vegetables and natives and a nice collection of hard to find tropical Salvias.



Gotu Kola, Centella asiatica, Apiaceae. I grew this once. It spreads all around and roots where it touches the ground. It wasn't hardy here. They love very moist soil.


FO TI, Polygonum multiflorum. Overconsumption can be dangerous! I grew this once also. It wasn't hardy either. Looks the the typical bindweed or buckwheat vine. Luckilly it didn't invade. Once I planted a whole line of its relative, Silver Lace Vine along the fence. They were weedy. The seeds were coming up everywhere. I ripped all the vines out. I still had seedlings popping up for a couple years after.


Salvia gauranitica, Hummingbird Sage.



Salvia fulgens, Cardinal Sage.


Salvia discolor, Peruvian Sage. Rare in the wild and in cultivation. Only a small colony exist in the wild in a specialized location.


Salvia dorisiana, Fruit Sage.


Salvia leucantha, Mexican Bush Sage.


Salvia mellisadoria, Grape Scented Sage. This plant is similar to S. divinorum and contains similar salvinorums. Used by the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico.

http://www.richters.com/show.cgi?page=home.html

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I didn’t mean to get you all riled up! Just mentioned a new to me plant that popped up. I haven seen them in the field behind me either, you would think this is something I would notice. On the bright side, I found a bunch of rattlesnake master volunteers today.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I've been channeling Doug Tallamy all day. That's why I sound riled up. I haven't had any rattlesnake master vollunteers the past couple years. It's been too dry. If I don't have enough of them I might get a few more at the native plant sale. I want to have a few in the hell strip.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)














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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Planning the design for your hellstrip? I might get some petunias. Not really petunias, but Ruellia carolinensis. I have another wild petunia that’s really cute. Will see. Since Pine Ridge still didn’t get me an updated list or update what’s available on the website, she told me to go ahead and send my “wish list” and she will get back to me with what they have. Amorpha is on there!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Which Amorpha do you want? The fruticosa or the nitens? Looking at the pictures gives me ideas. A path would be a good idea so I can get closer to the plants. As far as the plants in the pictures. I think I can do better than all of them mainly because of all the species I have. Some of them have just a few kinds of plants. I'm thinking in much larger numbers. Some scrap collecter picked up the kitchen sink so I won't be able to put that in the hellstrip lol! Any plant that likes sun is going in there, going in there..... I might plant a big honkin cup plant right in the middle for effect!? I didn't mean to offend anyone with my comments about mullien. You could all grow it if you like. I think I grew one about 6 years ago and got it out of my system, for good this time....I hope!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Ahm....I asked for both.....

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

Adding some logs or branches to the edge of the path is a good idea, like that pic with the coneflower, milkweed, and pink and yellow flowers.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Way to go Iris lol. I have 3 Amorphas now too. You have a lot more choices in South Carolina. Skip, I like the way the logs and branches look along the edge of the path. Is that just for looks, or does it serve another purpose? Logs and branches I have plenty of.

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dandy_line(3B (Northern, Mn))

I don't know, but I think those hell strips can look kinda raggedy when the bloom is over. The problem with natives in a small area is that once the bloom is done in 2-4 weeks, it looks like a bunch of weeds. Having more species with different bloom times will help, but if the area is too small, it just isn't going to be all that esthetic looking. It should be mowed before winter also. They can be a fire hazard.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

You have to put something in there for fall and winter interest, like grasses, asters and goldenrod, plants with nice dry seed heads or whatever. There should be individual bright flowers sparsely distributed through the whole thing, so you dont have one block of flowers and everything else is just green. Its basically a perennial garden. Its far too wet here during the winter to be a fire hazard but I guess that would depend on your location, layout, and what is planted.

Edit: some brightly colored annuals to fill in space and bloom all season would put off the drabness too.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Schizachyrium scoparium, 'Twilight Zone'.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Pretty! Is it weird that I am kind of scared of grasses? I don’t really know much about them in the first place. There was Pampas grass that was a nightmare to dig out. Maybe that’s the source.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I was planning on burning all the prairie plants before somebody's ciggerette butt does.


I'm going to be real careful that I don't set the house on fire. I love burning things!



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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

That little bluestem is a hostplant for six kinds of skippers. There are a lot of nice cultivars, but I'm going to try growing them with the Prairie Moon seeds. After I see how they do, I can decide if any special cultivars are needed. Iris, have you grown popcorn cassia from seed before. I was wondering how long they take to germinate. I had fresh seeds from Rhonda and I soaked them after a hot water treatment. They swelled up so I know they were good. It's only been about 4 days. I'm starting to worry like javi lol!

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

Skip, I was looking for info on germinating Aristolochia serpentaria. I found this article about the macrophylla while I was looking. The serpentaria seeds are supposed to cold stratify for 90 days. I'm going to winter sow them and if I think they need extra cold time I can stick them in the fridge for 30 days. It seems like not all the info about germination is correct. The seeds are soaking now. I've been growing the Aristolochia tomentosa for many years.


Aristolochia tomentosa



A. tomentosa



A. tomentosa



Aristolochia macrophylla



A. macrophylla



A. macrophylla











http://bonap.net/Napa/TaxonMaps/Genus/County/Aristolochia

Bonap doesn't list A. macrophylla, A. tomentosa or A. serpentaria. What's the deal with that?

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)

That is odd about Bonap, maybe there was another name change. The macrophylla is supposed to be more common east of the appalachians. They are the first seeds I wintersowed in early november, in milk jugs, in good soil. I sowed 25 of them. If they dont germinate I will just leave them out there another year. Bowman Hill was selling pipevine last year too, worst case I can just buy a vine from them. The nursery 10min away sells the native coral honeysuckle too which would be an acceptable alternative to me.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Jay, I still had a few of Rhonda’s two year old seeds, so I planted them. No soaking or anything. They are just starting to sprout. It’s been 8 days. It has also been 8 days for my sweet potato vine. No sign of that one yet. I hope I get at least one! I mean it’s the third time trying. It has to work, right? Wonder if Javi planted more milkweed seeds. Should check if she said something in the Butterfly forum.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Tithonia


Dregea sinensis


Tweedia caerulea and solanoides


Calotropis procera


A weed, possibly crucifer in my Mimosa pudica, Senna ditymobata bin.


Gomphocarpus, just beginning to sprout. The seeds will do better if lightly covered.

Life always finds a way. Praise God!!!!!!!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Looking great! What are you going to do with so many sunflowers?

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

It’s been raining again since yesterday. Tomorrow should be great with a high of 66. Low on Tuesday is going to be 22. Sigh. Just starting to flower. Another one that freezes every year.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

I smelled spring in the air. Chop, chop!!!

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

One can hope. Now I have a thunderstorm. Has your weather been kind of normal for your areas this winter? Not a native plant, but still kind of native. One of my poor dogs hiding in the bathroom.


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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)


Rex


Kiki, these cats are 1/2 Himalayan and 1/2 British Shorthair.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

Aww. Didn’t have a cat for the past four years. Except for the occasional visit from my daughter’s cat.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

When I was in the basement with the seedlings I heard another cat in the windowwell. It was gone when I looked. I won't be surpised if more kittens show up. Houzz won't let me thank you or send a like. So, thank you! It's taking an eternity for my pictures to post too. I can split the 16 Tithonias between the 2 gardens. I didn't have any last year. I hope they draw in a lot of pollinators, especially butterflies.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I have been getting “Oops, an error has occurred” messages, too. They are very attractive to all kinds of pollinators. They did so well for me 2 years ago. Last year the deer ate most of them. So much for deer resistant. Hopefully they will find something else to eat. My neighbor planted a black gum today, had a serious cage ready to go around it. Didn’t talk too long since it was raining and the dogs wanted to move on, but it was one of the free trees from the power company. Seems they are expanding their variety. Usually it was oak. Last year they added tulip trees. Good for them.

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Jay 6a Chicago(5b/6a)

There were a couple other people complaining about house too. That would be awful if we were not able to communicate! Funny this happened right after they started injecting adds into the comments section! The ground is frozen and I can get frostbite after 15 minutes, so no I'm not preparring any beds yet lol. I was thinking about getting out the machete and hacking the privets. I'll finish them off with the reciprocating saw, a drill and some round up. I just got the book about herbal plants in the mail. Are you having your Apios tubers delivered in April too?


It's very informative. It talks about the different plants and how to prepare them. You can grow a lot of the Chinese herbs that I can't in your warmer climate.

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Iris S (SC, Zone 7b)

I don’t think I would have the time to even think about doing something with my native plants with any medicinal value now. Privets are popping up here, too. So are more and more of the pear trees. I am not sure about some of the sticks I am seeing, but from past experience they look like silk tree. Also seeing English Ivy creeping up one of the oak trees. Thought I won that battle.

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Skip1909(7a New Jersey)