Protests in France, Spain etc

tony jelly

When people here voted Trump, they were voting for change, is it the same change as Brexit or the Gilet Jaune want?

There is a growing feeling that anyone not in an elite band is getting shafted, people struggle for a livable wage while others live high on the hog.

Leaders like Macron and Trump have shown that reform is just a sop and the rich continue to get rich and the poor poorer is it time for a revolution?

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

There will be no revolution. The state acts for the rich in every country. We would be much better off talking about more nuanced issues, like how companies are allowed to employ workers who still have to use the dole, thus making us subsidize their cheap labor and sky high profits. Revolution sounds quicker and more satisfying than policy talk.

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tony jelly

There is a lot of unrest, do you think those in power will listen to the complaints because this has never happened before?

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writersblock(9b/10a)

this has never happened before


Huh? As a child of the 60s this seems to me like France returning to its normal state. All the years I was growing up there were always riots in Paris, even more than on American college campuses.


Heck, when I was looking at colleges my friends and I were saying things like, "I like Cornell, but they have too many riots."


No, this is not new. It's just been a while since people have been this riled.

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tony jelly

Perhaps I should translate my last post?

It is the listening to and acting on the complaints from the people that has never happened before.

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woodnymph2_gw

I agree with writersblock, perhaps because I am a child of the '60's, myself. I remember well the days of M.L. King and the riots at the Democratic convention, the march on Selma, the terrible incidents in Mississippi, Woodstock, and more. And I lived in Paris when the students were rioting -- far more than here.

Zalco writes: "there will be no revolution." And you know this -- how???

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Cookie8

You can also add Mexico. Auto and factory workers (at the US/Mexico border cities) began striking in the beginning of the new year. Volkswagen agreed to increased wages before strike. Not other plants (before strike) but agreed after walkouts to increased wages.

More factories are also planning on striking too.

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/45-more-tamaulipas-factories-threaten-to-go-on-strike/

Has Macron even negotiated with his citizens? I know he promised higher wages but can't find if he actually gave dates.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

After the May '68 protests in France, the minimum wage was raised 35 percent. That kind concession is impossible to envisage in today's economy. We don't have that kind of growth. (My source for this came from the NY Review article posted in another thread on the Gilets Jaunes/Yellow Vests.)

We need to sort out what is possible. Corporate profits are high because of automation, disintermediation and such. Apple for example, employs few people compared to how much money the company makes.

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Cookie8

"Corporate profits are high because of automation, disintermediation and such. Apple for example, employs few people compared to how much money the company makes."

And to think corporations are aiming for more automation and even fewer employees.

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nancy_in_venice_ca Sunset 24 z10

I remember hearing various interviews during the last elections in France, and the French left was not particularly fond of Macron. Obviously Le Pen was out of the question, but there was a split between sitting out the election or the proverbial nose-holding vote for Macron. He's right-wing -- not crazy, crazy right, but definitely conservative.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

Macron was handed the election after Francois Fillon was accused of handing his wife Penelope a high paying job in his campaign. Eliminating Fillon thusly paved the way for Macron v. LePen in the runoff election, and France was not yet ready to descend into such madness.

Edited for clarity about the runoff.

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tony jelly

What I find interesting is the inability to define the enemy, I don't intend to be obscure but, the enemy works hard to define them.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

Call me dense for asking, but who is the enemy? Are you suggesting the rich are? If that is the case, then I have to wonder how you plan on addressing this so-called enemy. You will not manage to tax the rich out of existence. They will abandon their citizenship and move to a more hospitable tax climate (and I seriously doubt anyone will ever make the US inhospitable enough to have to leave). Singapore and Switzerland are never going to be inhospitable to rich people, though. Who will provide employment? I am not a fan of trickle down economics, but I am aware that rich people employ more people than poor and even middle class people- both as direct employers and consumers.

Fortunately, we are still living in a democracy with a growing economy. We should be able to sort out a better way forward. Eliminating billionaires is not going to happen in a meaningful way.

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Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real

PS When Francois Hollande raised the wealth tax in France, there was indeed an exodus of capital and more importantly talent. The French community in the SF Bay area supports FIVE French immersion schools- all of them are oversubscribed/have waiting lists. Two of them are k-12 and three are k-8. And not all French people even send their children to French immersion schools, many prefer English schools, so you get an idea of how many French people we have because the business environment here.

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Zalco/bring back Sophie!

Just saw Melinda Gates on Colbert. She said the French wished they had their own billionaires in the image of the Gates family.

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