No that makes no sense,

too far from kitchen?, better in the pool table room?

What makes no sense is posting multiple plans and not getting an arch, and a KD. In the house, and on the site. Then post their plans, ......and all will critique as you like.

to you, i know you have said that about 10 times, but i obviously disagree.

obviously there are many many ways a KD will plan this all out. so the more things i work out before hand the better off i will be giving them the details on what I want and dont want.

Yes........ But that is what the KD is for. : ) What you are doing is, planning for a cabinet seller. An entirely different thing.

he is a KD, and im not getting in the way of his job. just coming up with ideas for after i see his design.

you really dont think its possible for someone who is not a kitchen designer to come up with a good idea thats worth using?

Some amateurs have a good grasp of spatial relationships and study the rules of design enough to make something rough that is good. If they keep going, they even get good at rough design.

You have shown no understanding of any of that and have shown one bad idea after the other. Including the latest. You refuse to do any of the homework either. You can't keep on stabbing uneducated jabs in the dark. It's a complete waste of time.

You don't plant the farmer's tomatoes, or take your own x-rays. Don't attempt to design either. Get a real Kitchen Designer. If they have cabinets to sell you, they are cabinet salespeople, not Kitchen Designers.

i hired a kitchen designer, i think i mentioned that about 3 times. he is not a cabinet salesman, did I imply he was? im not really buying cabinets (maybe one or two), so why would i even hire a cabinet salesman???

anyway, as i mentioned already, i came up with the above new concept on my own, and he actually came up with the same one. i never submitted a full plan that i came up with, saying this is my final draft, judge it and me. i came up with ideas that i wanted feedback on and asked questions.

You have never met me. Know nothing about me, but yet continue to take shots at me.

instead of critiquing me, why dont you critique the new layout above, so i can actualy take that feedback to my KD and see if we can improve the design.

Isnt that the point of this forum?

You will want the panty to be close to where you bring the groceries in.

groceries will come in from the hallway/mud room,

Now I usually carry about 15 bags at a time and put them all down on the island as there is always a ton and need a huge space, then 3/4 of the stuff goes in the refrigerator and 1/4 in the pantry. ( i would think in the new house i would do the same) i really dont see a problem walking the pantry stuff the 10 1/2 feet from the island to the pantry. i guess in an ideal world it would be closer..

there is also counter space right next to the pantry door, so we could keep pantry stuff bagged separately and put it on the counter there.

I just dont like it there when you have space right behind the kitchen.

gotcha... that is where i first wanted it... i just have new plans for that room so dont know if i will have available space there.

plan is now to make that my office / pool table room --- may still have room for a mini pantry.

(and make the backroom that was gonna be my office into an exercise room)

cpartist,

here is a mockup of what you said to do. the window would clearly need to be moved to the front of the house, or really replaced with a much wider window and moved down, because i dont think you can have the sink base right next to the fridge right?

its not bad at all, just have to live with a column in or right next to the island.

but apparently alot of people do that...

So why not use that wasted wet bar area for the pantry.

yea i like that idea.

I just realized the fridge is hanging out in the dining room? can you flip that with the tall cupboards right of the range? don't waste the time with a sink in the island. and perhaps to make the island more narrow. The last picture you posted is really nice.

The kitchen designer came up with this, although it is not yet finalized.

It requires as little structural work and new cabinets as possible...

any other thoughts on this? before he and I continue.

another option i am thinking looks much better and functions better (if we keep the general location of things, would be to move the fridge down 40 inches or so and lose that window, then put the 36" cleanup sink under the 36" window.

we just lose a window and move cleanup sink to the bad view window as opposed to the island where you have an awesome view of the backyard.

looks like the island sink has a view of a wall.......

I'm still trying to figure out why you need two sinks?

Turn the island 90 degrees so the sink is opposite the stove and switch the fridge and ovens.

RL relocation, lol, it actually is a good view.

here is the view from the island, gives a great view of the backof the house with the 3 sets of french doors and backyard which are the highlights of the house.

it also gives a window into the family room for a semi open concept, the wall gives some privacy.

as far as 2 sinks, i actually said to my KD, do i really need 2 sinks, and he said, " in a kitchen this big, 100%". but i dont really care either way.

cpartist

Turn the island 90 degrees so the sink is opposite the stove and switch the fridge and ovens

i would love to but that column at the end of the wall cant be moved and would be right on the end of or next to the island looking quite silly.

okay, so here is what the kitchen designer came up with.

this is it (with the cabinets to the right of the refrigerator, but with the second sink to the left of the refrigerator as you see in the other renderings.

-- for those that are anti - 2 sinks.... We have two sinks now in a smaller kitchen, we are always using two sinks at the same time in our house. its also nice to be able to throw all the hand wash (kids cups) in a sink away from the main cleanup sink. and get to them later. and my wife wants both so theres really no point in arguing.

i feel like this secondary sink would be a great prep sink.

the island sink can just be used for cleanup, with the DW to the wall oven side, (out of the cooks way). and where you can easily get to from the kitchen table.

either way forgot the sink debate, what do you think of the overall layout, look and function of this kitchen? before i pull the trigger.

my sketch overall first floor.

countertops

I prefer the bottom one where the fridge is on the end. Basically it's almost my kitchen layout and I can attest that it works quite well.

Can we see her 2d floor plan with the cabinets listed?

Why didn't she make the lower cabinets drawers?

How wide are those lower cabinets?

Why all the small useless lowers?

If it were me, I'd ditch all uppers on the sink wall and just have uppers on the cooktop wall. It feels like it will close you in with all those uppers. Or make the uppers on the sink wall glass cabinets, get rid of the cabinet over the sink and instead put open shelves there.

I don't like the layout of the island with the useless cabinet to the right of the dishwasher. Put the dishwasher on the end with the sink next to it. Then have one large cabinet with drawers to the left of the sink. (The trash cabinet should be next to the prep sink, not the cleanup sink. More trash is generated during prep. Or you can do what I did, which was to put a small trash sink also under the cleanup sink, too)

Have the top of the hood either end at the height of the cabinets or at the ceiling line. Not in the middle like it is now.

How tall are your ceilings? I would either make the cabinets taller, or add soffits so you don't have the open cabinets on top.

cpaartist,

you dont like the cabinet to the right of the refrigerator?

it brings the REF closer to the cooktop/sink prep space,

it also gives a cool keurig coffee counter so its completely out of the way of things. gives a spot to put down things on a counter that isnt an island or cooking surface.. i thought it looked pretty good too.

to answer your question.. 10 foot ceilings, im keeping my existing cabinets and refinishing them. so switching all the uppers just isnt happening. 2-4 cabinets sure, but not 10

def like the idea of 2 garbages, do you mean just a pail under the sink or a rollout trash? seperate cabinet?

10 foot ceilings

ill get the lower dimensions listed tomorrow.

I like the cabinets to the left side of the fridge. I agree it give and extra set down spot.

Visually I prefer the largest mass on the ends and not dividing countertops. Make the end cabinet a tall cabinet like I have for coffee, etc.

cpartist, what you mean make the end cabinet a tall cabinet for coffee, etc?

what if you added tall cabinet to the end with the ovens?

the wall oven cabinet is a tall cabinet. another one? for what?

My tall cabinet is on the end and my fridge is to the left of it.

following ..

now i got you...

that would be cool. not in the budget now , but ill show my wife and get her opinion, i guess it would clean up the keurig on the coutner /kcups look for sure.

is that a tall wall cabinet on top of a regular basecabinet or one giant (wall oven like cabinet)?

another trash would be good next to the prep sink, but i just dont have cabinet for it, should i waste 24" space for another double trash? i guess in this one the back spot i could use for storage of a box of bags.

should i do the 24 to the left of the hood to match the other side or go with bigger 36" to fill that space?

anyone with feedback on this updated near final layout?

s that a tall wall cabinet on top of a regular basecabinet or one giant (wall oven like cabinet)?

It's a tall cabinet with drawers in the base.

another trash would be good next to the prep sink, but i just dont have cabinet for it, should i waste 24" space for another double trash? i guess in this one the back spot i could use for storage of a box of bags.

A double trash takes up a total of 18", not 24" so make that an 18" trash and add the additional space to the 30" on the other side.

should i do the 24 to the left of the hood to match the other side or go with bigger 36" to fill that space?

Go with the bigger 36".

Move the dishwasher to the end of the island, get rid of the useless 12" cabinet and combine it with the 18" cabinet on the left to make one 30" drawer cabinet.

If you want feedback show us a 2 D layout and not the stuff that is too hard to read.

Your warming drawer is almost on the floor. That is not a good place for a warming drawer.

I dislike the placement of the microwave and the warming tray and the wall oven really. The point of the wall oven is not to have to bend over to use it. and I wouldn't want my food basically so low in the warming try i have to do a full squat to get to it.

I would move the microwave to the island or near the fridge and move the rest UP.

So much wrongness. Any KD who insists on a sink being centered to the detriment of the functionality, is not a KD you really need to be working with. It’s sad to spend as much money as this will cost and end up with —-that.

here is another attempt at the kitchen, (sink not centered).

DW switch sides, (do you think its in the way of the range now)?

2 trash pull outs.

anyone?

also have another design with 36's on the wall next to the range, is that too wide of a look for upper cabinets or preferred?

is the dishwasher in the way here and should be moved to the other side of the sink?

You’ve shot everyone's opinion down so much that no one is going to comment. You want an echo chamber of agreement only. You don’t want to hear that your original is actually better than this expensive remuddle and that you’re not working with a skilled KD.

You’re not dealing with the floor height issue and other issues that take precedence. You’re trying the high cost and fruitless route of keeping some cabinets that is restricting you in creativity and results. Again, without working with the right designer.

Is the option to sell sell the house still on the table?

the tile floors were removed and its all one level. the half wall and column are down.